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    Default Test results

    Howdy

    In the recent Quadra values test, kindly made by Jonathan, I got this:

    Results -
    1222 Introvert (Gamma-Delta)
    I.e. INTp, ISFj, INFj, ISTp

    OR

    1221 Gamma
    I.e. ESFp, INTp, ENTj, ISFj


    ... I have to say something about these results.

    I haven't got ISTj (my suspected type) for any test for some time now. On the Socionics Type Indicator, taken I think a month or two ago, I got a possibility of eight different types. For this Quadra Values test, I didn't even get Beta. Yet, many people think that I'm ISTj.

    So how come I don't get ISTj for any tests?

    Something's not quite right here. I'm really sorry to everyone, because my type seems to have been an issue that does not go away, and I really don't want to waste any of your precious time like I have done in the past. But I would really appreciate any thoughts you might have.

    Thanks in advance,
    Five/Tanzhe

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    For this test in particular, you had

    1222 or 1221

    If you had chosen 2 for the first question, giving 2222 (introvert), it would be "right"

    That is the question for Te vs Ti, but it may be simply badly phrased.

    The second one you can only choose Ni over Ne, which is "right"

    The third one is trickier -- you seem to only choose Fi over Fe, which is "wrong"

    The fourth is the least significant since you were undecided.

    So the real problem is Fi over Fe, which I had already noticed before and that is why I had already suggested ISFj once before -- but in the end we preferred ISTj because (1) you identified strongly with Enneagram 1 rather than 6 and (2) you preferred Declarer to Asker in dichotomies.

    Either you are indeed ISFj or - as I find it more likely - your interpretation of test questions and you self-perception clashes with the tests' intention according to Socionics.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Dear Expat,

    Thank you for replying.

    I think the main issue that I'm trying to get at is that something is not right with me being an ISTj.

    ISTj descriptions fit me in some ways. I know IĎm a sort of Ďrockí, and have a clear penetrating insight, and a very good advisory mind. But ISTj descriptions really seem to miss out on crucial aspects of my personality, like spirituality, view on life, and especially my sensitivity to other people. It just isnít quite right.

    Iím an ethical scholar sort of person. I take joy in my life, and take joy in being the best person that I can be, enjoying my friends, and being kind to all. Somehow, in ISTj descriptions, this, and other things, just gets missed out.

    What sort of course would you advise?

    Best,
    Five/Tanzhe

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    As we already discussed, the only two types that are really plausible for you are ISTj or ISFj. We had already agreed on IJ and Enneagram 1, that seems to be clear.

    I did try to ask some Fe vs Fi questions last time, and it seemed to be more Fe than Fi, but the problem is that although a lot of what you say seems to suggest Fi rather than Ti, I'm not sure if that's not just another bit of Ti. I had already had seen that previously but we went for ISTj based on the overall evidence.

    I'll think of something; stay tuned.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    @Five

    This is taken from something I wrote some time ago trying to put down what precisely differentiates ISFjs from ISTjs -- some people liked it, others found it biased -- perhaps it is, but try to look past it and see if you clearly identify with one or the other.



    Both ISTjs and ISFjs have an inclination to be self-righteous. However, ISFjs are self-righteous in their ethics; ISTjs, in what is right way of doing things or of acting.

    On Fi and Fe

    ISFjs are Fi dominant. They lead their lives according to personal ethical principles. They themselves decide when it is proper to follow them and when it is not. They value deep, lasting relationships with select individuals. They are proud of being very loyal to their friends. But they can easily cut off relations with someone who, in their opinion, did something ethically abominable.

    By contrast, ISTjs have Fi as role function. That means that they tend to base their relationships with friends and family on what they perceive as the "proper" way of doing things in this respect. That is where their reputation of being dutiful comes from. They are uncomfortable with actual Fi as a dominant function and are often skeptical of people who claim to do things with base on ethical principles alone.

    ISTjs understand Fe as the acceptable front to keep society working. "Society" also includes people they are closer to. They do not understand subjective Fi , much less in irrational types. Their reaction is to say that "people are illogical anyway" or "it's the hormones" etc. They are skeptical of Fi as a dominant function and baffled by Fi as a creative function.

    For ISFjs , Fe is the front to use among strangers. In private, though, among people they trust, they usually do not show much of it.

    On Ti and Te:

    ISTj's strength is Ti, logical analysis within a system. They will always argue logically. However, the premises on which their logical analysis is based is a bit rigid and then the ISTjs accepts conflicting information with difficulty.

    By contrast, ISFjs have Ti as role function. They often have a self-image of being "objective" and logical. That is one of the reasons why, when listening to them describing themselves, they may come across as logical types, and they may even think they are. Yet, a very common characteristic of ISFjs is that they try to use logic to justify conclusions already reached at via Fi. That results in apparently self-serving, inconsistent logical arguments that may create the impression that the ISFj is lying. However, they are not necessarily noticing the logical inconsistency since their "reference point" remains Fi, not Ti.

    ISTjs value Te input only as long as it doesn't contradict their systems. When that happens, their first instinct will be to reject it saying "nonsense" or something like it. It takes some work to make them accept information that directly contradicts their Ti ideas of how things should be done. When ISTjs do accept such information, they become as persuaded that the new ways do work as they were before that they couldn't work.

    By contrast, ISFjs value Te input and are grateful for information and help in getting facts and how to do things efficiently. They do not need a rigid system of how things should work. They dislike change if it makes them feel insecure, but they have little problem accepting new ways of doing things if shown that they work.

    To illustrate a bit the differences.

    I know both an ISTj and an ISFj who have very leftist, quasi-communist beliefs. The ISTj always argues that socialism is a system that "works". He may even argue that it is "fairer", but that is part of his argument to say that it is a better, more organized way to run things. His argument is logical - - the assumptions and data he uses, though, may be limited once he makes up his mind.

    The ISFj is a professor of engineering. Yet in the case of politics, he never argues that socialism works better. All his argument is based on statement that it is the more ethical way to run things, and if you argue against it with logical arguments, it's because you "don't care about the poor". That is an argument that the ISTj never used.

    To sum it up - -

    It is easy to mistake ISFjs for ISTjs and vice-versa, especially ISTjs for ISFjs in the case of women and the opposite in the case of men. The best way to differentiate them is to see how they argue points of view.

    Also, IME ISTjs have a "friendly and polite but cold and tough" demeanor while ISFjs have more a "reserved and tough but sweet inside" way -- unless they have decided you are evil.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Dear Expat,

    I appreciate your efforts.

    Having read your article, Iím leaning towards ISTj. Iím still a little unsure, but Iím OK with that. Iím fine with not having a definite Socionics type.

    What I think would be the best way ahead would be for me to take some time to think this through. If I decide to bring my type up again, I will. If I donít, then I wonít.

    I wish to thank you for the immense effort that you have put into trying to find my type. I hope others have benefited from our discussions.



    Kindly,
    Five/Tanzhe

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    i like how you're pointing out the logical contradictions here.
    6w5 sx
    model Φ: -+0
    sloan - rcuei

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    FThe third one is trickier -- you seem to only choose Fi over Fe, which is "wrong"
    Why is it wrong?
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

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    Well, "wrong" in the sense that that was the choice that was consistently preventing the test from typing him as ISTj, as he expected.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Dear Expat,

    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Well, "wrong" in the sense that that was the choice that was consistently preventing the test from typing him as ISTj, as he expected.
    I'm not sure whether that's entirely accurate.

    I wasn't 'expecting' any type. I just took the test and answered truthfully. I wasn't interested in proving myself to be ISTj, or to prove myself otherwise -- I just took the test.

    My point was, when I take such tests and answer truthfully, I usually end up with a result different from ISTj.


    Dear implied,

    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    i like how you're pointing out the logical contradictions here.
    I'm sorry, but I don't quite understand. Who was this addressed to?


    Kind regards,
    Five/Tanzhe

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