IN??, INTJ or INFJ?

Creepy-Guest · 07-25-2005, 09:39 AM

I hav done a couple of different personality tests and mostly get identified as INFJ or INTJ. However I have been identified as INFP and and INTP aswel. I am unsure of which one I am.

Here is how I would describe myself:

Negative -worrying, pedantic, critical, quite, reserved, sometimes un-assertive, un-motivated in some areas,may seem slow in the eyes of others, can be oversensitive to criticism.

Positive - Creative, thoguhtful, insightful, organised, sense of hurmour, occasionally articulate.

Tend To:
#be stubborn about some things
#evaluate peoples motives
#like a variety of different types of music
#be worried about self-image
#be hard to get to know
#find double meanings
#look for patterns in events or behaviour
#make "smart-ass" comments, and enjoy doing this
#have been called a "perfectionist" more than a couple of times
#like to argue
#write To Do lists, and also try to keep track of things on a weekly basis, such as, hours of study done, exercise done, and recently i started keeping track of the amount of take-away i eat per week.
#stubborn about some things
#enjoy reading fictional books
#play out possible sequence of events in my mind
#form fairly strong opinions of people before knowing them very well
#dislike ignorant, hypocritical people
#occasionally lose temper, or become frustrated
#say odd things
#like exercising
#like arranging and rearranging CD collection.

**WVBRY** · 07-25-2005, 01:57 PM

Well alot of the things you, say I can say the same for me. They sound INTPish, mostly, but considering quasi identicals have so much that is similar, they could be INTJish also, as Im not an INTJ I could not tell you.

INxPs are more spontaeous and attention seeking in behaviors. INxJs are more aloof and deliberate. INxPs can be more uninhibited that INxJs, jumping into the action spontaneously without thinking, goofing off etc, but when the going gets rough we tend to withdraw quicker than the Js. IxxPs are reactive types, they react to things in their environment as it comes, whether good or bad, which means we are more spontaneously attention seeking than the Js, but we are more sponatneously avoidant also. It seems we can pick up on changes in the social atmoshpere better than the Js, who seem more deliberate and have less of a visible push-pull mechanism to changes in the environment. Due to the fact that MBTI tests only test on a linear four scale pattern, I think they neglected the fact that there is probably a significant difference in behaviors between someone who prefers introverted perceiving to introverted judging.

Just something to think about.

**Koneko** · 07-25-2005, 02:26 PM

Your self-description may fit an INFj quite well. So I'm quite possibly your identical...

INxJ would sound pretty much from the few I can imagine on your style.

Language skills, psychology matters, people judging in general, and an untempered sensitive mood are easily associated with INFj types.

I'm jealous to the limits of what's healthy, overly neurotic on the tiniest matters, irritable, seriously depressive, selfishly people discriminating, but I wear a difference from that description... I do hate sports of all kinds, both participating, and watching them as sensing is settled on both my subconscious weaknesses, althoug I did practice some fencing when I was younger, and I'm happy about not ever doing that again.

A question to find out about possible

on your ego...

Suppose the situation you're forced to read for other people, in -let's say- a school class.
First, does it nags you somehow?
Second, -if you're blamed and asked to do it more emotively- isn't it the most possible that you'll just stay the way you were reading or plain go angry and forget about the matter at all regardless of possible reactions?

If both questions are for a "Yes", then

may be located on your Personal Knowledge, hence

on your Intellectual function. This tries to test out your "Direct Correction".

INTj's would probably try and will be totally awkard (not to mention they'll look quite funny) but won't really feel bad about it.

Direct Correction for an INTj would happen when using

on them, getting them tired by exposing to Business Logic, something that on the contrary, turns INFj's on. (INFj's like/admire/envy business people instinctively). INTj's have just a warm disrespect for them.

Here's a discussion in which I'm drawn to delirium alone about distinguishing between T/F and J/P dichotomies biased specially for intuitive intraverts and maybe this is a chance for it to -mean- anything for anybody else but me

http://the16types.info/forums/viewtopic.php?t=696

**ivormcguivor** · 07-25-2005, 04:03 PM

My best guess would be INFj, you have written 'stubborn about some things' twice and 'form fairly strong opinions of people before knowing them very well' which seems to be very characteristic of INFj's. The lack of any reference to hobbies or sports and a large emphasis on people in your post is an indication also.

However I would say to with reference to koneko ('I do hate sports of all kinds, both participating, and watching') that I have an INFj friend who absolutely loves soccer/football with a passion, but dislikes other sports and gets incredibly irritated when other people don't agree that soccer is good to watch or claim that another sport is better, once again seemingly typical of the INFj's feeling judgement.

I am no expert but wish this is of help to you.

**HarryBottom** · 07-25-2005, 04:21 PM

You seem INFJ to me.

The fact that you can be oversensitive to critisism kinda rules out INTJ in my opinion. They are experts at giving critisism, and to see such a thing as anything but constructive when given to them would seem out of their type to me. I also, in general, don't see them at all worrying... unless I've really missed something, but for the most part, and most of the time, that also seems kind of contrary to their type. They are also very motivated individuals. From what I've seen in my experience, or at least from the impression I get, unmotivated INTJ is practically an oxymoron. I'd rule out INTJ.

A lot of the other characteristics of yourself that you mentioned go along well with INFP or INFJ. The thing is that, there are also characteristics here, mostly the organization with witch you describe yourself, that are contrary to the type of the INFP, my type. To anyone else, my room would appear to be a garbage pit, although it works just dandy for me. This is the same with every other living space, binder, folder, etc. that I keep. This has me leaning towards INFJ.

The final hitter is the whole thing about exercising. The whole thing about your health. For the most part I'm not really concerned with my health, I take satisfaction when I look good but, health... I don't give a damn. I joke that I'll probly die early. Health, on the other hand, is the hidden agenda of the INFJ. And since we ruled out the INTJ, I'm gonna go with INFJ.

Hope I helped.

**Koneko** · 07-25-2005, 04:28 PM

Yep,

seemingly is our hidden agenda. I understand it in the form that I can -never- feel confortable. I'm unkeen even on small very trivial sensory introspection matters such being properly aware of as hunger, cold and sleepyness. I seem to puzzle myself distinguishing between them; can't solve these at -all- on my own to the point I can sincerely say i'm cold and i'm warm at a given moment and I'll often forget if i've already eat lunch and may do it twice just in case. More exactly than being "healthy" my dream is often on times when sensoric perceptions are too annoying and confuse me the one of having NO body at all to care about... and I would really like to live on anesthesia if it weren't actually dangerous for my health.

That's the feeling that makes reality to annoyingly real... and makes you feel it's never clean or defined well enough...

Deep on my subconcious i seem to believe sports themselves are unhealty, as any single scar or sweat I see them as one step closer to death. Very innocent viewpoint mine is, but won't make me change my mind about sports... INFj's -are- stubborn

Beware this in particular also affects INTj's... their hidden agenda is

as well, but they would be likely to use more -reasonable- advice to protect themselves than INFj's would. (I know of an INTj who bought a car with no electrical crystals so he could be safe if fell underwater and could open the windshields with his own hands and avoid gettind drawn. Can't tell which one of us is more neurotic and unreasonable, but he at least uses -logic-, I don't)

Although a feeler, given my personality disorder tendencies my friend count reached 1 so far, and that one is my wife, counting as the only lover, the only confident, the only sister, the only friend... I neglected off even my family so far and live with her in a fairytale unreachable small oasis afford by each other's fortunately good incomes.

A very extreme example of a

-weak

-annoyed INFj I have to admit but if you didn't went that far at least would point out enough of a "bias" that sounds familiar.

**Cone** · 07-25-2005, 05:14 PM

I do see a definite F here, so INFx is most probable.

**Koneko** · 07-25-2005, 05:17 PM

Indeed... I would check by PoTR... INFp's and INFj's are very characteristic ones.

INFp's is

, so they hate "convenience logic" and thus hate to be lectured.

INFj's is

so they hate "human intrusive contact" and thus hate to be close to others that ain't felt "aggressive".

It's even easier to distinguish between them since when you hate one, you absolutely love the other.

INFp's love physical contact and INFj's love business inclined thinking.

**science as magic** · 07-25-2005, 11:23 PM

I say INxJ for sure if the Fs think you are F then consider it. About the sensitive to criticism comment, I was very much like that for a long time but I was terribly depressed so barring that it is unlikely for an INTj to be overly sensitive to criticism.

Creepy-Monica · 07-26-2005, 01:46 AM

Ummm...I think that I'll need a little bit more info before I can figure out exactly what your type is.

Originally Posted by Koneko

Indeed... I would check by PoTR... INFp's and INFj's are very characteristic ones.

INFp's is

, so they hate "convenience logic" and thus hate to be lectured.

INFj's is

so they hate "human intrusive contact" and thus hate to be close to others that ain't felt "aggressive".

It's even easier to distinguish between them since when you hate one, you absolutely love the other.

INFp's love physical contact and INFj's love business inclined thinking.

I don't relate to this or the some of the things the others have said about INFJ's...I guess it's because I'm an ethical subtype. BUT it fits perfectly the people that I know that are INFJ intuitive subtype.

Unlike the intuitive types (INFJ and INFP) that I know, I'm not stubborn ...and love physical contact.

I think that the ethical types are generally more people oriented. I can't count the amount of times that I've comforted strangers that were going through a hard time. They open up to me and pour out their souls to me. To me it feels good to listen and just be there for them whether I know them or not.

With it it is possible to have a talk, to pour soul, to obtain simple, but efficient council.

I definitely agree with this statement about the ethical type.

I'm starting to realize that there is an even bigger difference between the subtypes than I orginally thought.

**Koneko** · 07-26-2005, 03:45 AM

There -is- difference, and indeed, PoLR is probably stronger for 2nd-function biased subtypes. Since 4th function is the opposition to the 2nd, that being stronger, may turn 4th even weaker, and probably pull the hidden agenda a little more desperate as well.

As for what "physical contact" and unsociability I should state a difference just in case... because I probably started by talking about my "worst" assets first (not that I really have any intention to change them

). For everything I wear two worlds, the inner circle, that is my wife and I, where physical contact, free expression, equalty, insane neverending proximity and mutual aid is endless, and the outter circle, which consists on the rest of the world, to which the rule of thumb is ignoring and running away.

In the "inner circle" I'm definitely not stubborn or avoidant.

Innately I do have the

tendency to help. I really cannot afford to say "no" to a need that involves my first three functions (I would -never- attend to a party, a reunion, or anything by the kind nonetheless, unless it is to save someone from a life or death danger). I still can't afford to leave someone without a conforting yet maybe useless advice on it's favor or material assets I have that seem to be useful to the other... I get too easily heartbroken on beggars, children, little animals, or any defenseless picture I may bump into and I counciously avoid the streets due to that in part.

I end up listening to strangers stories and conforting them a lot. Last week a taxi driver went -so- confident on me that could end up confessing a very embarassing story about his family including a murder attempt of his brother towards his own mother, and I made sure his mind was back in place before I went out of the car... My passive kindness took just 5 minutes to pull out that man's haven out, and that happens me all the time. So I -am- INFj i'm afraid. But yes. Subtypes seem to differ.

Very ethical subtypes probably ain't as gregarious as we two are living alone forgetting about the world. They -may- go indeed to parties they hate to make up someone else's desire.

With me it is very possible to have a talk, to pour soul, to obtain simple, but efficient council. But that is if I my avoiding strategy was bad enough to leave me caught in other's problems.

Intuitive's prides and weaknesses are somewhat bitter I believe.

I do wonder in turn, since you sound a lot more "Ethical" than us (Making me believe we both are "Intuitive" ^^; And happy I can't deny that

) if the ethical subtype is zealous and sectarian when in love as well or does opens to the world? Is the ethical subtype prone to develop two worlds to that extempt too?

**Rocky** · 07-26-2005, 03:56 AM

Originally Posted by Koneko

There -is- difference, and indeed, PoLR is probably stronger for 2nd-function biased subtypes. Since 4th function is the opposition to the 2nd, that being stronger, may turn 4th even weaker, and probably pull the hidden agenda a little more desperate as well.

I'm not sure about this. If you are an INFJ-intuitive, then you are saying because they focus more on Ne, the Se becomes weaker. In that case, why isn't "To be Healthy" the hidden agenda for ENFPs, who naturally focus more on Ne than INFJs. If what you are saying is true, then ENFPs would have a weaker sensing than INFJs. I think it's the opposite; if you are of the creative subtype, you are more in control of your PoLR than the other subtype.

**Koneko** · 07-26-2005, 04:01 AM

Maybe because as you said for ENTp's that's right where most of their brain activity takes place in a percieving extravert?. In the same Right Forebrain? And then, a PoTR can only exist where you pay less attention being a xxxp, that is, in the left back of brain?

But that's true... what "focus" means anyway if not "bias" itself... something unreasonable seems to be coming out... you're right....
Unless we disregard the possibility of subtypes of course. But... is that a choice?

I guess it would make sense once we get a grasp of what exactly "Focus" really means. We're missing -dimensions- here that seem to affect.

If Model-A states 2nd function to be creative for both subtypes then focus implies some kind of direction.

The brain also tends to solve matters on one side of the brain and awaits to the last time for the need of comunicating with the other side for more results. I remember reading that on BrainTypes.

Maybe the difference between biased subtypes is the necessary treshold to give up on the Intellectual hemisphere to go nag on the Creative one. My left brain gives up more quickly on being ethical to start bringing intuitive content perhaps.

Having all this in mind it's possibly true to suppose my role's hurt is closer to my PoTR's one... but then again, going back to reality... i -do- feel

a lot of a problem, and

just an effort with the need to compensate.

Should we think it's possible a continuous typing between one and one's mirror? I'm not sure.... I still feel something is missing.

**Rocky** · 07-26-2005, 04:06 AM

Yup. If you want to think about it in terms of the brain, an INFJ-intuitve would be using their right brain (the creative one for a J) more and be in more control of it. This is also where your PoLR is, so if you are more in control of that side of your brain, you are probably more in control of your PoLR than an INFJ who does not focus on their right, "creative", brain.

**Rocky** · 07-26-2005, 04:08 AM

I guess it would make sense once we get a grasp of what exactly "Focus" really means

You made an edit while I was typing

. Anyways, I guess it's hard to say if you can chose to use your creative function more or if you are really born with a subtype to your type.

**Koneko** · 07-26-2005, 04:16 AM

Sorry about that ^^;;;; I'm always reediting myself... I should stop doing that.... IxxJ neurotic...

But what worries me more now is to find a real socionic answer to understand which subtype has a deeper weakness on 4th function, regardless of the fact you seem to have convinced me that 1st function-biased one does...

**WVBRY** · 07-26-2005, 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by ivormcguivor

However I would say to with reference to koneko ('I do hate sports of all kinds, both participating, and watching') that I have an INFj friend who absolutely loves soccer/football with a passion, but dislikes other sports and gets incredibly irritated when other people don't agree that soccer is good to watch or claim that another sport is better, once again seemingly typical of the INFj's feeling judgement.

I am no expert but wish this is of help to you.

I agree, I dont think personal interests are a legitimate criteria in determining type.

**Koneko** · 07-26-2005, 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by Cheerio

I agree, I dont think personal interests are a legitimate criteria in determining type.

I agree to that. Maybe would've been more of a criteria if I added I grown a hate for sports and most motor activities because I'm absolutely dumb at them and I'd rather stop find out than getting frustrated.
The other INFj may have in turn been too proud of himself trying to overcome that lack of ability by practice.

**ivormcguivor** · 07-26-2005, 02:44 PM

Yeah, i'm sure there is a good correlation between personal interests, hobbies etc and type, but you can't rule out a type due to a specific interest. I just wanted to make sure the original poster kept this in mind.

'The other INFj may have in turn been too proud of himself trying to overcome that lack of ability by practice.'

This is very interesting, I think your probably right koneko, he is ultra competitive and always spends hours and hours practicing.

**Rocky** · 07-26-2005, 04:30 PM

Originally Posted by Koneko

Sorry about that ^^;;;; I'm always reediting myself... I should stop doing that.... IxxJ neurotic...

But what worries me more now is to find a real socionic answer to understand which subtype has a deeper weakness on 4th function, regardless of the fact you seem to have convinced me that 1st function-biased one does...

I have another idea about this. The strength of your creative or dominant functions may not even affect the strength of your hidden agenda. They might be independent of each other. Even if you use your right forebrain creativly (Ne) a lot you may be able to ignore your hidden agenda. On the other hand, if you are heavy on your dominant function (Fi- back left brain) you may be able to develop your hidden agenda. The four most important functions are in four diffrent "quadrants", so maybe how stong they are are independent and it's up to the individual to decide how to use them?

Creepy-Monica · 07-27-2005, 02:16 AM

Originally Posted by Koneko

I do wonder in turn, since you sound a lot more "Ethical" than us (Making me believe we both are "Intuitive" ^^; And happy I can't deny that

) if the ethical subtype is zealous and sectarian when in love as well or does opens to the world? Is the ethical subtype prone to develop two worlds to that extempt too?

Yes and it's kind of difficult. At times, I feel like I have two very conflictory sides in me.

Lately, I've been into the enneagram. I'm a 4w3. My four side is avoidant and likes to withdraw from people and the world. But my 3 side is at home in the spot light.

Average 4/3 is emotionally spicy. Because of the conflict between the three-wing's desire to be in the spotlight and the four's self-conscious fear of exposure, they may alternate between extremes of extroversion and introversion. They are more likely to talk about their overwhelming feelings than the much more rational, analytical, withdrawn 4/5s.
http://www.mindheart.org/cj/oldcj/ep/types/4/43.html

This is pretty much how it feels to be a ethical - INFJ. I feel like I'm constantly alternating between two worlds.

Has a good descriptive thinking and creative abilities. It knows how to interpret different symbols, dreams, mystical means.

This is why I sometimes feel that the intuitive types are in some ways smarter than me. lol

My thinking isn't very descriptive but people often say that I'm "deep" and wise...esp. when it comes to spiritual matters.

I am very artistic and creative but not in the way that intuitives types are. And I'm good (not great) at most sports and I'm rhytmic but self-conscious

(I was once in a dance group). I think this also applies to other ethical-INFJ's.

According to the info posted in the type and handwriting thread, I'm right brained. But according to braintypes, I'm left brained which doesn't make sense...

**Rocky** · 07-27-2005, 02:20 AM

Originally Posted by Monica

According to the info posted in the type and handwriting thread, I'm right brained. But according to braintypes, I'm left brained which doesn't make sense...

Most of the stuff posted on the handwriting thread were from MBTI, so it won't always make sense.

If you are an INFJ, then what MBTI would say is right brained is probably INFP. Unless of course you are right brained then maybe you are INFP.

Originally Posted by Monica

My thinking isn't very descriptive but people often say that I'm "deep" and wise...esp. when it comes to spiritual matters.

I am very artistic and creative but not in the way that intuitives types are. And I'm good (not great) at most sports and I'm rhytmic but self-conscious (I was once in a dance group).

^^ This sounds more INFP than INFJ.

EDIT: Are you sure you're INFJ?

I don't relate to this or the some of the things the others have said about INFJ's...I guess it's because I'm an ethical subtype.

Unlike the intuitive types (INFJ and INFP) that I know, I'm not stubborn ...and love physical contact.

I'm starting to realize that there is an even bigger difference between the subtypes than I orginally thought.

Ethical-subtype INFJ, or INFP??

Creepy-Monica · 07-27-2005, 04:20 AM

LOL...I'm 100% sure I'm INFJ, my twin is INFP ethical subtype.

And don't you know that INFJ's are one of the best types at typing? :wink:. I'm very observational and can see things that others can't see. In groups, I withdraw and sit back and watch everything...esp. the interactions between people.

So I've never questioned my type. When I first read the descriptions, I immediately identified with the INFJ. Every sentence described me to a tee. But my sister identified completely with the INFP one...and I kind of like "WHAT....that's you and you actually think like that???

All these years I thought she was putting on an act.

Everything... including the way I think, walk, mannerisms fits the INFj -ethical description. Whoever, wrote those subtype descriptions is brillant and has an amazing eye for detail.

I have very serious, dipassionate facial expressions. And my eyes are very attentive and penetrating...I'm quiet and I rarely smile. But people say that my twin has a shy, sweet smile and "dreamy" soft eyes. So upon first impression, people say that we are very different. When people first meet me they think I'm serious, cold. We both dress very fasionable / elegant ....but I'm told that I give off a sexy/aloof/ mysterious vibe while my twin gives off a sweet/innocent/charming vibe. But when they get me, people tell me that I'm sweet/nice....and I've been told I'd make a great psychologist.

And take my humitarian pursuits seriously... I stand up for my beliefs and those that I'm defensed. But my twin is softer/weaker and plays more of a diplomatic role. Overall, we complement each other very nicely...

And our thinking is different. We have the same interest (music/arts, psychology...) but different abilities. We sometimes don't understand each other well and have very characteristic quasi-identical arguments. And my sister is very sensitive and often feels that people are critcizing her when they aren't. And she is indecisive which sometimes drives me crazy.

In fact, I understand Koneko very well, but he seems like a smarter more complex version of me. lol

Creepy-Monica · 07-27-2005, 04:35 AM

Originally Posted by Rocky

I am very artistic and creative but not in the way that intuitives types are. And I'm good (not great) at most sports and I'm rhytmic but self-conscious (I was once in a dance group).

^^ This sounds more INFP than INFJ.

EDIT: Are you sure you're INFJ?

I don't relate to this or the some of the things the others have said about INFJ's...I guess it's because I'm an ethical subtype.

I was referring to the things that people said on this page. The only (professional) type descriptions that describe me are INFJ.

And if you look at the subtype descriptions you'll see that the ethical subtype moves differently than the intuitivies. Their movements are similar ( but yet different) than the ethical INFP.

Well, anyways hopely the braintypes guy will one day figure what the brain differences are between the subtypes. Then his typing sys. will be very accurate...

**Rocky** · 07-27-2005, 01:23 PM

Monica, so you are an ethical-INFJ. Question: Why would you think ethical subtypes should be more right brained? Feeling is a judging, left brain function itself. That is why INFJs are considered to be left-brained. Also, there have been mentions of subtypes on that site ("sub-classifications"), but I don't think subtype would affect L/R. It has to do with where you are dominant, and for an INFJ that is in the back, left brain. Here is what I believe an INFJ looks like in terms of functions/brain:

INFJ

Left||Right
| Te || Ne | Front
| Fe || Se | Brain

| Fi || Si | Back
| Ti || Ni | Brain

Dominant
Creative
Dual-Seeking
Hidden Agenda

I think that all INFJs are strongest in one part of the brain (back-left) but an intuitive subtype would use his/her creative brain more often. But that wouldn't change the way you talk, look, move, ect.

One more thing; you said you were self-concious. Does that mean about your body movements? Because that sounds like something a left brain dominant person would do.

EDIT: If youy think you are right brain dominant then it is possible you could be an ethical-ENFP instead of an INFJ.

Originally Posted by NFp

Rocky: "This may also be why creative-subtypes can appear to be like their mirrors".

@Rocky

I used to think that I was an INFp until a member on this forum said that I could be an INFj. So I waded through all the type descriptions again as well as other relevant information but had a tough time deciding if I was ENFp or INFj. I enlisted the help of a friend; hoping that her Te would bring about some objective analysis. She read the type descriptions for ENFp and INFj and said that she could see me in both. Since that method was not very helpful, I turned to functional analysis and that's how I concluded that I'm an ENFp. This ties us into a theory brought up by MysticSonic and later verified by you and Koneko.

Creepy-Monica · 07-27-2005, 05:18 PM

Originally Posted by Rocky

I think that all INFJs are strongest in one part of the brain (back-left) but an intuitive subtype would use his/her creative brain more often. But that wouldn't change the way you talk, look, move, ect.

Yes it does. Just look at the subtype descriptions.

Everything about the INFJ description has always clicked. But when I looked at the subtype descriptions I saw even more accurate details about my self.

And in my last post when I said that I was good at sports and used to dance you said that sounded INFP. Why was that? I've come across lots of other INFJ's like me (esp. online). So I'm definitely not a unique case.

Originally Posted by Rocky

One more thing; you said you were self-concious. Does that mean about your body movements? Because that sounds like something a left brain dominant person would do.

No, I'm not self-conscious about my movements...I just self-conscious (or avoidant) overall. In the enneagram I'm a 4 and that's how we are (fear of rejection/or not fitting in). And most 4's are INFJ and INFP's are.

Originally Posted by NFp

Rocky: "This may also be why creative-subtypes can appear to be like their mirrors".

@Rocky

I used to think that I was an INFp until a member on this forum said that I could be an INFj. So I waded through all the type descriptions again as well as other relevant information but had a tough time deciding if I was ENFp or INFj. I enlisted the help of a friend; hoping that her Te would bring about some objective analysis. She read the type descriptions for ENFp and INFj and said that she could see me in both. Since that method was not very helpful, I turned to functional analysis and that's how I concluded that I'm an ENFp. This ties us into a theory brought up by MysticSonic and later verified by you and Koneko.

No, I've been through all of the type descriptions extensively, esp, for helping others type themselves. But mainly, because I think each type is unique and I wanted to get in the mind of each type...even if I would never interact with them.

And I've never had that type of confusion about my type. My personality has always been very clear cut to me and others.

ENFP is "foreign" to me.

Creepy-Monica · 07-27-2005, 06:44 PM

FCAR / ENFP "Motivator"

highly energetic; enthusiastic, charming, imaginative, improvisational; sees possibilities; spontaneous; easily bored with repetition; enjoys solving people’s problems; catalyst, marketer, language skilled.

None of this is me. If anything I'm the opposite. I'm very quiet and withdrawn. I'm a loner and I like it (and I made it that way). When people meet me and want to get to know me, I'm polite but I keep them at a distance. Because constantly interacting with people wears me out and I don't have much to say anyways. And I'm not a motivator. But I'm there if anyone needs somone to listen to them.

And my body movements don't match either subtype description of ENFP (posted by Curious Soul). I know of several people that are ( intuitve and ethica) ENFP's and the respective subtype descriptions of their facial expressions/movements fit them perfectly.

Creepy-Monica · 07-27-2005, 06:45 PM

The quote that I posted above is from braintypes.com

Creepy-Monica · 07-27-2005, 06:58 PM

Do you know when braintypes is coming out with their sub-classification info?

I think that it's great that he realized that everything wasn't adding up in every situation and decided that their must be sub groups. Unlike, MBTI he is trying to correct and improve his theories.

**science as magic** · 07-27-2005, 07:24 PM

The correlation THAT HAS BEEN MADE between brain hemispheres and type is weak at best. I am not saying that no such correlation exists but there are a lot of misconceptions and vague terminology out there that only veil the ignorance of everyone on the subject.

**Rocky** · 07-27-2005, 08:04 PM

Originally Posted by Monica

And in my last post when I said that I was good at sports and used to dance you said that sounded INFP. Why was that? I've come across lots of other INFJ's like me (esp. online). So I'm definitely not a unique case.

I wasn't talking about the athletic part. I was talking about the deep, spirtiual part and the artistic part.

No, I'm not self-conscious about my movements...I just self-conscious (or avoidant) overall. In the enneagram I'm a 4 and that's how we are (fear of rejection/or not fitting in). And most 4's are INFJ and INFP's are.

Ok, thanks for clearing that up. I thought you were atill talking about body movements.

None of this is me. If anything I'm the opposite. I'm very quiet and withdrawn. I'm a loner and I like it (and I made it that way). When people meet me and want to get to know me, I'm polite but I keep them at a distance. Because constantly interacting with people wears me out and I don't have much to say anyways. And I'm not a motivator. But I'm there if anyone needs somone to listen to them.

Those were merly generalizations, not neccecarily descriptions of the types. I'll give you an example. Manny Ramirez, ethical-ESFP, (typed by BT) doesn't sound much like the descriptions here,

"FEAR / ESFP "Entertainer"

performs to entertain others; enjoys creating party-like atmosphere; spender—not a saver; expressive; down-to-earth; radiates warmth and optimism; impulsive, enjoys promoting and business; rhythmical and athletic; gross motor skilled."

Actually, he sounds as much like the ISFJ descritions,

"BEAL / ISFJ "Assistant"

concerned with others’ welfare; responsible, reserved, patient, practical, friendly, orderly, inquisitive regarding people, harm-avoiding; conscientious, thorough, loyal; service-oriented; gross motor skilled."

But that is what can happen with creative-subtypes. Other people have said the same thing. Manny is most certainly a true ESFP (ethical) where as Derrik Lee is a true ISFJ (ethical). There are more complicated diffrences then the simple desciptions above.

Do you know when braintypes is coming out with their sub-classification info?

I think that it's great that he realized that everything wasn't adding up in every situation and decided that their must be sub groups. Unlike, MBTI he is trying to correct and improve his theories.

No, I don't know when their coming out with description of the subclassifications. And part of the reason I like BT is that they break off from M-B, realizing problems with it. They seem to have the attitude that M-B was at least on the right track, but they realized problems with it and try to correct them. BT's understanding of types seeems closer to Socionics than M-B... which is odd since they come from diffrent directions.

**Rocky** · 07-27-2005, 08:36 PM

Originally Posted by Monica

And my body movements don't match either subtype description of ENFP (posted by Curious Soul). I know of several people that are ( intuitve and ethica) ENFP's and the respective subtype descriptions of their facial expressions/movements fit them perfectly.

Out of curiosity, how would you describe the body movements of INFJs and ENFPs? Also, how do you think they differ for the subtypes? I have my reasons why I don't think body movments are diffrent for subtypes, but I want to hear what you have to say first.

Creepy- · 07-27-2005, 08:45 PM

dont worry about Rocky.

He obviously knows nothing and gives ENTPs a bad name.

**Rocky** · 07-27-2005, 08:56 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous

dont worry about Rocky.

He obviously knows nothing and gives ENTPs a bad name.

^^ I'd bet that's Larceny.

Creepy- · 07-27-2005, 08:58 PM

WOW! Genius observation!

If only you could type other not-so-obvious people, your posts might be worth reading!

**Rocky** · 07-27-2005, 08:59 PM

Originally Posted by Anonymous

WOW! Genius observation!

If only you could type other not-so-obvious people, your posts might be worth reading!

You have a problem with Manny-ESFP and Lee-ISFJ?

Creepy-Monica · 07-27-2005, 11:13 PM

Originally Posted by Rocky

I have my reasons why I don't think body movments are diffrent for subtypes, but I want to hear what you have to say first.

They are different and even the braintypes guy realized it.

And at first glance, didn't he think this one guy was ISTP. But after further examination he discovered he was ESTJ. How is this possible... if ISTP's and ESTJ's have very different movements?

Well, anyways he realized something and he's working on sub-classification stuff. If there wasn't a difference he wouldn't have to do that. And with the techniques he uses he'll have plenty of evidence to back it up.

I have to do something else right now but I'll post the subtype differences later.

**Rocky** · 07-27-2005, 11:21 PM

Originally Posted by Monica

Originally Posted by Rocky

I have my reasons why I don't think body movments are diffrent for subtypes, but I want to hear what you have to say first.

They are different and even the braintypes guy realized it.

And at first glance, didn't he think this one guy was ISTP. But after further examination he discovered he was ESTJ. How is this possible... if ISTP's and ESTJ's have very different movements?

Well, anyways he realized something and he's working on sub-classification stuff. If there wasn't a difference he wouldn't have to do that. And with the techniques he uses he'll have plenty of evidence to back it up.

I have to do something else right now but I'll post the subtype differences later.

I've not heard about the ESTJ/ISTP thing. Where did you here that? If you follow baseball, Gary Sheffield looks likes an ESTJ to me, with Vlad Guerrero being the ISTP. These guys seem diffrent to me (I haven't seen them typed at BT, though). I'll be sure to consider the subtype diffrences when you type them, thanks.

Creepy-Monica · 07-28-2005, 08:37 AM

Here are a few of the observations by Gulenko and Filatovoy.

ENFP

Eyes are mobile and are expressive. Usually benevolent, merry and even coquettish. Frequently there is the suspended, dreamy expression of face. Smile appears easily and naturally on face.

Poses are free and are unconstrained, somewhat theatrical . The manners of behavior are simple and natural, but it is a little demonstrative. ENFPs often walk with their feet apart.

intuitive

ENFPs are normally either tall and thin.
Motions are badly coordinated, impulsive, a little angular. Gait is rapid, somewhat clumsy. Chin is frequently sharpened.

ethical

The ethical subtype of artistichen, is impatient, a little extravagant. It loves to astonish or to entertain those surrounding. It is optimistic and friendly. He frequently becomes the soul of the company: it is confident in itself.

The motions are sharp, are decisive. The gait is swift, is confident, although it is a little angular. Frequently has rounded face. Short and full figured. (Full figured ENFPs have corpulent faces and quite often a nice smile.

INFJ

In many cases INFJs have a slim, ascetic figure. Usually the attentive, analyzing view, penetrating, but soft. View is alerted, rarely it smiles.

ethical

Confessor, is sincerely religious or adheres to any ethical system, and it is restrained, it is strict to himself and by others for the disturbance of moral standards. With it it is possible to have a talk, to pour soul, to obtain simple, but efficient council.

It is modest, but it is dressed with the taste, if means are allowed - is elegant. Motions are smooth. Gait is sufficiently rapid, is light. Typically thin.

Intuitive

Has a good descriptive thinking and creative abilities. It knows how to interpret different symbols, dreams, mystical means. It loves to advise, to bring up, to add, but only in the narrow to circle. It is held modestly and unnoticeably. It dresses simply, adhering to classical style, is frequently conservative. Speech is emotional, but not flattened, tone it frequently edifying.

It has frequently disproportionate figure, are somewhat thickset or with the tendency toward the completeness (usu. the women). Gait is a little clumsy, only waddle. Less mobile and active.

Originally Posted by Rocky

I've not heard about the ESTJ/ISTP thing. Where did you here that?

It was during an ESPN interview. He said that he initally thought that Ryan Leaf was an ISTP but later typed him as ESTJ. And he said that he has made mistakes but only when he doesn't take the time. (And I guess this is how he discovered subtypes).

ESTJ-sensory have rapid and implusive movements like the ISTP-sensory. ( Similar to the ESTP (sensory) but not as smooth or cat-like.) So thats most likely why he initally mistyped Leaf.

-ESTJ-logical have sharp, tense, jerky movements. Upright posture. (i.e. military drill )
-ISTP-logical gracefully, lazy gestures. Doesn't like to hurry. Elastic gait.

**Rocky** · 07-28-2005, 01:53 PM

ENFP
intuitive

Motions are badly coordinated, impulsive, a little angular. Gait is rapid, somewhat clumsy.

I'd disagree with this one. ENFPs are bouncy and acrobatic. Sammy Sosa and Alfonso Soriano are great examples of this (and so is the Yankees ballboy, Skippy).

So I guess you're saying creative subtypes also move like their mirrors?

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