What are ESTjs like in relationships? How do you express love?

[Mea]

I know there're not many ESTjs on this forum, but just wanna know...

What are ESTjs like in relationships?
How do you guys express your love to him/her in a relationship?

The ESTjs I know can appear cold and uninterested toward their partner, but looking deeper, i've realised that it's not always the case.

So how do you show you care?

Being from the Delta Quadra, do you guys view those from the other quadras as being immatured? (no offence to any types, i'm just curious because I have seen some ESTjs complaining about he immaturity of people more than the other types. Even commenting about the immaturity of those from the Delta quadra. One ESTj I know seems to think he's really matured and has seen it all.)

O, and no, i'm not complaining about ESTjs, infact, i've been attracted to a ESTj in the past.

[Smilingeyes]

ESTj: You know I care about you, don't you?
INFj: *makes tea and hums*
ESTj: Oh, good. That's settled then.

...


ESTj: Is there something you'd like me to do or do differently?
INFj: I don't know.
ESTj: Ah, ok.

...

ESTj: It was a rather horrific day at work today, but somehow I made it through.
INFj: *frowns*
ESTj: *looks at her and starts smiling*
------------------

It's a veritable orgy of free love and emotion.
And as to immaturity of other quadras, umm, yes.

[oyburger]

That sums up my parents relationship well

The only person I've seen my ESTj dad be overly affectionate with is myself.

[Mea]

That really sound like the ESTjs I know. I'm particularly close to one, and he'd go on about how childish so and so can be even though they're older than him and stuff.

And as to immaturity of other quadras, umm, yes.

ESTj: You know I care about you, don't you?
INFj: *makes tea and hums*
ESTj: Oh, good. That's settled then.

He won't say that though. He'd just show care about his girlfriend for example by telling her to call him when she reaches home after work.

It's a veritable orgy of free love and emotion.

I like this sentence.

[Smilingeyes]

ESTj: You know I care about you, don't you?
INFj: *makes tea and hums*
ESTj: Oh, good. That's settled then.

He won't say that though. He'd just show care about his girlfriend for example by telling her to call him when she reaches home after work.

Yes, well, I'm a sentimental old fool and I have trouble controlling my emotions. Eh, well, not really. It's just that my earlier relations have been somewhat more hot and this one feels, as of yet, wierd. It feels funny to do just this, but somehow it works. I don't really get it yet myself either. Maybe some INFj would like to comment on this?

The most ridiculous love affair I ever had was when I was acting ENFj and I was in love with an INFj girl. There was a lot of teamaking and humming involved.

ENFj: Oh, I love you so much, but it's not just your looks or your wisdom but your very soul!
INFj: Teehee, you're funny.

Wasn't that fun, the way smallpox is fun. Would have made a great movie though, really great movie.

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[Smilingeyes]

ps. actions speak louder than words, to this INFj anyway.

Have to disappoint you, I know very few Hollywood producers so the movie probably just won't be made and if it will, it won't reach you.

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[Smilingeyes]

ps. actions speak louder than words, to this INFj anyway.

Have to disappoint you, I know very few Hollywood producers so the movie probably just won't be made and if it will, it won't reach you.

Not about that!

Oh you have to be clearer than that then, you see we ESTjs are all dumb as bricks

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[Smilingeyes]

Oh you have to be clearer than that then, you see we ESTjs are all dumb as bricks

How unfortunate for the INFjs.

I thought it was all part of our charm Oh poor us. Is terrors.

[Minde]

ESTj: You know I care about you, don't you?
INFj: *makes tea and hums*
ESTj: Oh, good. That's settled then.

...


ESTj: Is there something you'd like me to do or do differently?
INFj: I don't know.
ESTj: Ah, ok.

...

ESTj: It was a rather horrific day at work today, but somehow I made it through.
INFj: *frowns*
ESTj: *looks at her and starts smiling*
------------------

It's a veritable orgy of free love and emotion.
And as to immaturity of other quadras, umm, yes.

Love it. Absolutely love it.

Maybe some INFj would like to comment on this?

Comment on what?

[Smilingeyes]

Comment on what?

On why the kind of conversation we have is good. It's so, mm, illogical that a person who shows little affection is preferrable to some who shows more. I've heard many INFjs claim that such actions cause them anguish, as in they are unable to reciprocate, give a sufficient answer... like it's too much pressure. That much I can understand. But I don't get how you fall in love with someone who is distant to you. It's safer, sure, so there's some sense in that. And it's good management of social resources as well, taking everything out of everyone. (An INFj can be a terrible tease.) But somehow I still have trouble understanding the mechanics of how an INFj falls in love. Not that that's essential, I'll take the emotion and thank you by dragging dead mammoths to our cave or whatever seems to give a positive reaction.

[Minde]

Comment on what?

On why the kind of conversation we have is good. It's so, mm, illogical that a person who shows little affection is preferrable to some who shows more. I've heard many INFjs claim that such actions cause them anguish, as in they are unable to reciprocate, give a sufficient answer... like it's too much pressure. That much I can understand. But I don't get how you fall in love with someone who is distant to you. It's safer, sure, so there's some sense in that. And it's good management of social resources as well, taking everything out of everyone. (An INFj can be a terrible tease.) But somehow I still have trouble understanding the mechanics of how an INFj falls in love. Not that that's essential, I'll take the emotion and thank you by dragging dead mammoths to our cave or whatever seems to give a positive reaction.

If I don't think about it hard enough, I'd say the lack of intense emotion is stress relieving. Or, put another way, lots of emotion needs to be calmed down, which requires... something... (energy is probably the word I'm looking for, but not quite). It puts one in a position of having to decide what to do with all those fiery emotions. Encourage it? Suppress it? Redirect it? Decisions, decisions...

I think it has to do with being in the spotlight. Being the center of attention is okay every now and then (like if it's something I've done, not me myself), but it's still uncomfortable. I get all awkward and don't know what to do with myself. So I'd agree with what other INFjs have told you.

Too much enthusiasm can seem fakey, too. Emotions come and go, but true caring and love is more permanent and less dependent on external circumstances. A quiet, steady affection is preferable to an abundance of mushiness.

Not that being sentimental is bad. It's actually rather endearing, as long as it doesn't go overboard. And as long as it doesn't get too close. Personally speaking.

As far as the actual mechanics of falling in love, 1) I have relatively little experience in the area, so I'm probably not the best person to listen to, and 2) even if I did know everything, it would likely be unwise to tell you.

[Smilingeyes]

Thanks, Minde. I knew it already, but I still had to ask, because knowing isn't understanding.

[cracka]

What are ESTjs like in relationships?

Not very spontaneous or the word Boring comes to mind "sometimes." Also, Very caring and devoted... When I was with her she meant everything to me.

How do you guys express your love to him/her in a relationship?

I was told I didn't say it enough...lol i always figured that the things I did for her showed it enough but she actually told me that it would have meant a lot to actually tell her more than I did. I guess, I seemed to take her for granted and didn't express my love as much as I should have. From what I've read that's something good about my dual since it's more understood to the other person and doesn't really need to be said as often.

Being from the Delta Quadra, do you guys view those from the other quadras as being immatured? (no offence to any types, i'm just curious because I have seen some ESTjs complaining about he immaturity of people more than the other types. Even commenting about the immaturity of those from the Delta quadra. One ESTj I know seems to think he's really matured and has seen it all.)

I'm one of the people who will tell people "i've been there, done that, so you shouldn't do it." and i'll be the person that makes sure to rub it in when i was right...lol
I think that people should live life while young and get married later. I always tell people that their crazy for moving as quickly in a relationship as they are...here's a good example from lately.
Me and my roommate had lived together for 2 yrs and in the last couple months we lived together he met this very nice girl. (it was about 5 months ago) They dated for the last 3 months that we lived in our apartment and we went our different ways and moved to single one bedroom apartments. So, about a week after we moved out of the apartment he tells me that him and his girl are getting married, they dated for about 3 months at that point. I told him that he's a dumbass and that he's making a mistake, she's 20 and he's 25 and she hasn't really experienced life yet as he has, which is quite a bit. lol.
I am very good friends with him and of course he knows that I'm saying this because I'm one of the few people he knows that will tell him my opinion on everything and it's usually a valid point. I told him that i'm all for it if he's ready for it and thinks she's the right one...it's his life and i'm cool with him regardless, I just thought it was ludacris...lol they got married about a month ago and I'm happy for him.
So, last week he tells me she's pregnant. So i hit him in the shoulder and called him a dumbass again and that was pretty much all I could add to that conversation. So he got married and has a kid on the way in only knowing her for a little less than 5 months. My ex lived with me for 2 years before I didn't think she was the right one. I just don't like seeing others do something they may regret later on. eh...I don't feel like writing anymore...lol

[Expat]

How do you guys express your love to him/her in a relationship?

I was told I didn't say it enough...lol i always figured that the things I did for her showed it enough but she actually told me that it would have meant a lot to actually tell her more than I did. I guess, I seemed to take her for granted and didn't express my love as much as I should have. From what I've read that's something good about my dual since it's more understood to the other person and doesn't really need to be said as often.

I can totally relate to this, and yes that's a good description of with role function and dual-seeking behavior; which leads to disappointments of the kind you described if the partner focuses on .

[Slacker]

Re wanting a partner who isn't too emotional - for me, having a partner, or really being around anyone, who is very emotionally "out there" is stressful. It makes me anxious. I feel calm and relaxed with someone who is more restrained.

[Minde]

Thanks, Minde. I knew it already, but I still had to ask, because knowing isn't understanding.

Oh. You're welcome, then. Do you understand any better?

[Smilingeyes]

Thanks, Minde. I knew it already, but I still had to ask, because knowing isn't understanding.

Oh. You're welcome, then. Do you understand any better?

No, I don't, not at all I mean, you didn't actually tell me anything new. I know how it works, but I still don't really _get it_. It's probably better that there remain some mysteries But you made me feel good. Sometimes repetition brings a feeling of safety and trust even in the absence of understanding.

[Minde]

No, I don't, not at all I mean, you didn't actually tell me anything new. I know how it works, but I still don't really _get it_. It's probably better that there remain some mysteries But you made me feel good. Sometimes repetition brings a feeling of safety and trust even in the absence of understanding.

I don't understand it, either. You, that is. I don't understand you. But that's okay. I don't need to, in this case. As long as I made your life that much better, that's all I need to know.

[SenoritaC]

are LSE men and ladies unhappy when partner is nice, do they want challenge?? i see LSE man who is with EII woman off and on but i think it seems to me he is thinking she acts too nice and sweet. but this is not making sense, is it not that LSE wants her Fi? Or is too nice something else? advice would be good because EII is a friend of mine and is in sad state of affairs, hurting in spite of their duality

[Lobo]

are LSE men and ladies unhappy when partner is nice, do they want challenge?? i see LSE man who is with EII woman off and on but i think it seems to me he is thinking she acts too nice and sweet. but this is not making sense, is it not that LSE wants her Fi? Or is too nice something else? advice would be good because EII is a friend of mine and is in sad state of affairs, hurting in spite of their duality

I wouldn't know, but what comes to mind is that being nice isn't necessarily authentic. Some people like/expect honesty of what you are really feeling.

[tiny_dancer]

If she doesn't have a backbone, then he's not going to respect her. EIIs and IEEs have a tendency to turn themselves into people's doormats.

That may not be the case at all, but it's the first place my mind jumps to, since I have extensive experience making myself someone's doormat.

[Lobo]

If she doesn't have a backbone, then he's not going to respect her. EIIs and IEEs have a tendency to turn themselves into people's doormats.

That may not be the case at all, but it's the first place my mind jumps to, since I have extensive experience making myself someone's doormat.

Yeah, that happened to me once. It was naivety in thinking that my LSE friend at the time would not exploit me by asking me to do things for him. He had this thing of trying to delegate things to friends, and then expecting that if you can't or don't want to do it you will just say no. On the other hand, my way of thinking is that I only ask for help when I truly need it, which makes me think that if someone is asking for something it's because they physically can't do it... Long story short, it's good to be a doormat at some point as an experience, because you really learn from it if the outcome turns out to be bad. These situations help you get savvier and assertive of your own wants/needs.

[jewels]

Re wanting a partner who isn't too emotional - for me, having a partner, or really being around anyone, who is very emotionally "out there" is stressful. It makes me anxious. I feel calm and relaxed with someone who is more restrained.

yup, I agree. I just had a huge fight with my SLI bf over the weekend, except he wasn't aware we were fighting. He was fine, which kinda diffused everything, and it ended up working out fine. Then we laughed about my one-sided fight, that he wasn't aware of.

[UDP]

are LSE men and ladies unhappy when partner is nice, do they want challenge?? i see LSE man who is with EII woman off and on but i think it seems to me he is thinking she acts too nice and sweet. but this is not making sense, is it not that LSE wants her Fi? Or is too nice something else? advice would be good because EII is a friend of mine and is in sad state of affairs, hurting in spite of their duality

I wouldn't know, but what comes to mind is that being nice isn't necessarily authentic. Some people like/expect honesty of what you are really feeling.

Yeah.... I guess first question is - are you sure of their types
Secondly, some people are just abusive. And some people are ignorant of how they are affecting others (STs especially...).

But people who are TOO nice in a sort of Fe way, as in trying to demonstrate to me that they are nice, is a turn off and hard for me to respect. People who are genuinely nice to me in a whole hearted way, that really gets to me - in a good way. I feel protective of that, and people who are genuinely really nice to me I feel indebted to.

If she doesn't have a backbone, then he's not going to respect her. EIIs and IEEs have a tendency to turn themselves into people's doormats.

That may not be the case at all, but it's the first place my mind jumps to, since I have extensive experience making myself someone's doormat.

I think in a healthy situation, the caregiver actually doesn't abuse the infantile in that way. but I've seen a lot of situations where the caregiver just gets lazy and takes the easy road because they know the infantile will give in.

Unfortunately, the infantile does have to do some things to keep them in check.

[UDP]

Yeah, that happened to me once. It was naivety in thinking that my LSE friend at the time would not exploit me by asking me to do things for him. He had this thing of trying to delegate things to friends, and then expecting that if you can't or don't want to do it you will just say no. On the other hand, my way of thinking is that I only ask for help when I truly need it, which makes me think that if someone is asking for something it's because they physically can't do it... Long story short, it's good to be a doormat at some point as an experience, because you really learn from it if the outcome turns out to be bad. These situations help you get savvier and assertive of your own wants/needs.

Yes.
And the truth is, NOT being a total doormat is important to having a successful relationship, EVEN IF the person is good to you and not trying to exploit you. Being a doormat tends to involve withholding certain important information that other peoples need to adequately and accurately understand your position.

[Creepy-]

are LSE men and ladies unhappy when partner is nice, do they want challenge?? i see LSE man who is with EII woman off and on but i think it seems to me he is thinking she acts too nice and sweet. but this is not making sense, is it not that LSE wants her Fi? Or is too nice something else? advice would be good because EII is a friend of mine and is in sad state of affairs, hurting in spite of their duality

I agree that it depends on whether she is being "too nice" in the sense of not having a backbone and in bending over backwards for him while denying her own wants/needs. I would think that an LSE would very much appreciate and enjoy kindness and general strength in Fi. At the same time, I think that real strength means being able to maintain a balance between doing what is best for others and for oneself, knowing when to compromise and when not to. It depends on the specific people and situation, of course, but I would think that a healthy LSE would appreciate the kindness and quiet inner strength of a healthy EII.

I will say that I identify w tiny_dancer and Lobo in that I had to learn this through experience, though. And there are still times when I'm probably too nice in some ways, tbh. Then again there are times when I'm not being too nice at all imo, but I might be perceived that way by people who mistake kindness for weakness... this is something I was recently thinking about, actually....

Yes.
And the truth is, NOT being a total doormat is important to having a successful relationship, EVEN IF the person is good to you and not trying to exploit you. Being a doormat tends to involve withholding certain important information that other peoples need to adequately and accurately understand your position.

Agreed... like I said [and like td and Lobo said, I think] I think this is something that kind of has to be learned through experience for Delta NFs in a lot of cases....

[UDP]

I would think that an LSE would very much appreciate and enjoy kindness and general strength in Fi. At the same time, I think that real strength means being able to maintain a balance between doing what is best for others and for oneself, knowing when to compromise and when not to. It depends on the specific people and situation, of course, but I would think that a healthy LSE would appreciate the kindness and quiet inner strength of a healthy EII.

It's one of the most appealing things when I think about what I like in a partner. I particularly enjoy people who are willing to make moral or ethical stands about what they think is right or wrong, even if they are otherwise peaceful - to me it's related to 'caring' about something. It doesn't have to be in a flashy way.

I'm reminded of an EII 'standing up to' a taxi cab driver who was trying to rip her and her friends off; the driver was lying about things and she very deliberately called him out on it. I respected that a lot, especially because she's such a nice person.

[Kalinoche buenanoche]

is this girl an ESTj?

[DirectorAbbie]

What are ESTjs like in relationships?
Loyal. I don't do short-term and am unable to have more than one fella on my mind at a time.

How do you express your love to him in a relationship?
The easiest way is to say it, though voicing it can be uncomfortable. An explanatory note should suffice. And I don't like to repeat myself. If I say something, assume it remains that way until I say otherwise.

How do you show you care?
Quality time. It's hard to show care, especially around males older than seven. I'll spend time with them, try to do things for them, feed them, basically offer up my . (I offer to anyone.)

Being from the Delta Quadra, do you guys view those from the other quadras as being immature?
No. Maturity is not quadra-related. LIIs are much more mature than IEEs. I like the stability of Deltas, the fun of Alphas, the fascination of Gammas, and the distance of Betas.

[Kalinoche buenanoche]

the distance is supposed to be a good thing?

[DirectorAbbie]

the distance is supposed to be a good thing?

Lol. That means I prefer to be around Alphas, Deltas, and/or Gammas to being around Betas.

[UDP]

What are ESTjs like in relationships?
Loyal. I don't do short-term and am unable to have more than one fella on my mind at a time.

How do you express your love to him in a relationship?
The easiest way is to say it, though voicing it can be uncomfortable. An explanatory note should suffice. And I don't like to repeat myself. If I say something, assume it remains that way until I say otherwise.

How do you show you care?
Quality time. It's hard to show care, especially around males older than seven. I'll spend time with them, try to do things for them, feed them, basically offer up my . (I offer to anyone.)

Pretty much 100% agreement.

Being from the Delta Quadra, do you guys view those from the other quadras as being immature?
No. Maturity is not quadra-related. LIIs CAN BE much more mature than IEEs. I like the stability of Deltas, the fun of Alphas, the fascination of Gammas, and the distance of Betas.

Minor changes, but pretty much Yeah.
On the whole I don't like betas, although I find affable and mature betas to be valuable group members, and I value betas that I really trust in terms of their personal values. Best example of this is one IEI I know who is very cool. We know we are about as different as can be - he's even gay. But he sees things that I don't see and we have a workable friendship - I think this is really because we both value each others personal values. He's very kind and generous, and I'm accepting of him and his unusualness, and forthright in showing appreciation and even protection of him at times.

But I suppose that does fit into 'distance', in terms of overall things. I can talk business with this really strong SLE female fairly well - for another example - but again, that's more one on one; I feel uneasy around her in certain social or group situations because of how she likes to do certain things / her idea of 'fun'. So I suppose, hm, a more accurate way to put things for me is that I enjoy Betas, so long as the atmosphere isn't predominantly beta, and especially if it's one on one or more small-group oriented.

[Minde]

yup, I agree. I just had a huge fight with my SLI bf over the weekend, except he wasn't aware we were fighting. He was fine, which kinda diffused everything, and it ended up working out fine. Then we laughed about my one-sided fight, that he wasn't aware of.

Lol, my sister (ENFp) who is dating a (I think) ISTp has done that before. I advised her to just calmly bring up what she was concerned about and get his perspective on it, which ended up working out just fine. But it's kind of funny how she had that same thing, where she had as you put it a one-sided fight with him. Her danger is, though, that she'll be mad about things but not broach the subject with him for fear of rocking the boat. ...Come to think of it, I can have that same problem, though perhaps to a lesser degree...

As for ESTjs expecting or wanting doormats - I think that theoretically that wouldn't be the case. If anything, I'd expect the caregiver to take on that role a little more, with the infantile being the more demanding or picky one. Though, I suppose that the roles could trade back and forth. Often I find myself trying to care for someone.

[Marie84]

As for ESTjs expecting or wanting doormats - I think that theoretically that wouldn't be the case. If anything, I'd expect the caregiver to take on that role a little more, with the infantile being the more demanding or picky one. Though, I suppose that the roles could trade back and forth. Often I find myself trying to care for someone.

A few LSE's that I've been close enough to get to know have said that they want a partner who will stand-up to them when they're going too far and to be honest with them, even if it's not what they want to hear.
I'm guessing this is subconscious need they have to know how to gauge relational boundaries as well as to help them develop into the people they want to be (ethically)

Though it'd be interesting to know if this is a universal desire or maybe just a matter of preference...

[shakealittle]

Yeah, that happened to me once. It was naivety in thinking that my LSE friend at the time would not exploit me by asking me to do things for him. He had this thing of trying to delegate things to friends, and then expecting that if you can't or don't want to do it you will just say no. On the other hand, my way of thinking is that I only ask for help when I truly need it, which makes me think that if someone is asking for something it's because they physically can't do it... Long story short, it's good to be a doormat at some point as an experience, because you really learn from it if the outcome turns out to be bad. These situations help you get savvier and assertive of your own wants/needs.

In my experience yes they can treat people like doormats. An LSE lady at work thinks we have a great friendship and she is CONSTANTLY getting me to do things for her, and what's even more annoying is that she expects me to drop everything that I'm doing just so I can do whatever she wants done (which is less of a priority usually). She also hovers over my desk every half hour to see how I'm going with my work etc and expects me to update her. She's not even a manager/team leader. She tells me to calm down when she's the one who obsesses over small, insignificant things. ANNOYING.

[Suz]

is this girl an ESTj?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcWQL...eature=related

OMG this video was HILARIOUS!!

It was really heartwarming and sweet until she said put your finger in their food. I was like

p.s. I eat alone often (I really dont mind it), and I could just imagine her coming over and doing what she said. I would think she was insane actually.

[anou]

A few LSE's that I've been close enough to get to know have said that they want a partner who will stand-up to them when they're going too far and to be honest with them, even if it's not what they want to hear.
I'm guessing this is subconscious need they have to know how to gauge relational boundaries as well as to help them develop into the people they want to be (ethically)

I`m pretty sure my neighbour is an LSE and it`s outstanding to me, how often he is in an argument with his wife. She is friend with my mother and complains once in a while about her husband... It`s not an unhappy relationship. It just seems that these arguments are part of the relationship like pieces of a jigsaw completing the picture. Maybe I´m just fantasizing but these dissonances seem to me like having some significance. His wife is an energetic person. Very extrovert, very self-confident and gets annoyed by others easily.

The point is, that I don`t think it`s a fortuity that this two people found each other.
Maybe it`s just a prejudice, but I always thought it`s essencial for such "strong" people to have a partner who is able and willing to "fight", to give active resistance. I could imagine such people being in need of someone who is rather similar to themselves, than "soft" and compromising. At least that`s what I heard of some people.

That`s a bit discouraging. I´m not a person who tends to insists of her receivables, wishes or sometimes even of needs. Of course it depends on situation, but the tendence is still there, at least compared to many other people I know. I often feel guilty, when I make demands which don`t feel to be very important. People called me "modest". But in my opinion it`s only weak will. My mum says I was like that even as a child. I wasn`t very pushy when I had wishes. But I was very unyielding and intractable when I didn`t want ( to do ) something.

My resistance is a rather passive one. It would be like "running into a wall" rather than "fighting". I couldn`t imagine myself "fighting". It`s against my nature. I prefer to argue in a calm way. And I only argue when I feel the need of change or doing a certain decision or a decision is wrong in my opinion. Otherwise there is no reason for an argument. In addition, I would be glad to have somebody who lead. And that`s the point I think. LSE are too strong for me. I think it`s like they need to lean against a tree to feel safe and comfortable feeling the resistance. But leaning against a bush wouldn`t be that comfortable. The bush doesn`t have one strong stem but many thin ones. The bush is flexible. It adapts. The bush is weak. Not enough resistance. Like falling through the bush...

It`s a bit discouraging...

Does anyone know an LSE-EII couple in real life?
Are they really fortunate in the long term?


EDIT: I just realized that my post is totally off topic. Sorry!