Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 40 of 51

Thread: Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde

  1. #1

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Philippines
    Posts
    22
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde

    Hi there. Iím quite new here, and I can say Iím learning a lot of stuff here just by reading your posts.

    Since I donít know very much about socionics, Iíd like to ask your advice. Iím an INTj 5w4. I am very much sure of this (as the description perfectly fits me to a tee), but Iím quite confused because my colleagues, and most of my acquaintances describe me quite contrary to what INTjís are known for. Typical descriptions of me which run contradictory to this stereotype are:

    -Very charming
    -Sweet
    -Pleasant and easy to get along with
    -Warm
    -Light-hearted and a bit whimsical
    -Open-minded
    -Fun-loving

    I do admit Iím like these in a social scene and at work; but deep down I know Iím really not like this. I know Iím quite intense, deep and harder to get to know than what everyone else really thinks.

    Now, with all this, I just want to ask you: Is this normal for an INTj to ďactĒ like that in some situations? Or am I having a split type personality, which means Iím actually not who I think I really am? In short: Am I personality-confused? From the outside, I think Iím quite acting like an ESFp. From the inside, an INTj. Sometimes, they switch roles when I'm stressed out or feeling unstable--INTj outside, ESFp inside. What the heck is wrong with me?




    I really would appreciate your comments on this.

    Thanks.
    "I never saved anything for the swim back" - Vincent Freeman, Gattaca

  2. #2
    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Freiburg im Breisgau
    TIM
    ENTj
    Posts
    15,631
    Mentioned
    157 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Maybe you're ENTp? I got an ENTp vibe from you.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Philippines
    Posts
    22
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Maybe you're ENTp? I got an ENTp vibe from you.
    Really? Now I have 3 personalities..

    Jesus, this is getting really harder.

    Wait, I'll read its description.
    "I never saved anything for the swim back" - Vincent Freeman, Gattaca

  4. #4
    Expat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    10,853
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde

    Quote Originally Posted by Arfael
    From the outside, I think Iím quite acting like an ESFp. From the inside, an INTj.
    If you understand the types correctly, that would mean EP temperament with INTj-like values and functions -- that is, an ENTp. That is indeed the most likely explanation, based on what you have said now.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  5. #5

    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    USA.
    TIM
    INTj
    Posts
    4,497
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    well i have friends who are from the Philippines and their culture is very outgoing imo.

    Also, im an INTj and people have also called me all of those things on your list.

    Don't worry about something being wrong with you. Just try to do what comes naturally and eventually you will find your way. lol i dont know where this is coming from

    There is also a thread on here that expat wrote stating evidence seems to support that people act like their conflictors in times of (extreme) stress.

    personally i know that environment can make me feel all these unproductive feelings so thats why i said to just be yourself and it just might give you reassurance about your type. Even the stresses you feel can hint at your type. If you consider times when you took your test calm who knows maybe it was the best assessment that could have been made of you.

  6. #6

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    4,833
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde

    Quote Originally Posted by Arfael
    Since I donít know very much about socionics, Iíd like to ask your advice. Iím an INTj 5w4. I am very much sure of this (as the description perfectly fits me to a tee)
    Which description fits you perfectly? INTj or Enneatype 5w4? That is clearly suspicious. If you are an INTj you are probably not a 5w4, and if you are a 5w4 you are probably not an INTj.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arfael
    Is this normal for an INTj to ďactĒ like that in some situations? Or am I having a split type personality, which means Iím actually not who I think I really am? In short: Am I personality-confused? From the outside, I think Iím quite acting like an ESFp. From the inside, an INTj. Sometimes, they switch roles when I'm stressed out or feeling unstable--INTj outside, ESFp inside. What the heck is wrong with me?
    What you describe is not typical of INTjs, and something is probably wrong with your typing of yourself.

    I saw that your Jekyll and Mr Hyde picture was taken from an INTP site. If you think that you are an INTP you are probably not an INTj. Maybe you are an INTp, maybe you are some other type. But INTj is not very likely. Enneatype 5w4 corresponds best with INTp, intuitive subtype.

  7. #7

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Philippines
    Posts
    22
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Thank you for your all your responses. Really appreciate it. I was looking over the ENTp description and itís quite funny how they match me, too. The only glitches are the organization skills and punctuality---when I was younger (and less stressed out), I was very good at scheduling my day and implementing them (very much like an INTj). I also valued punctuality and did my best to be on time. I noticed that as I got older, I became more extroverted (probably due to the nature of my jobs, which all require me to be extroverted) flaky, irresponsible and scattered. I know itís not meóbecause I get stressed out when I havenít been efficient with my time and havenít planned my day. Funny thing is that while Iím like that, I have no inclination (lazy, to be exact) to do something about it. Itís a constant battle right now. Something like a push-pull thing---it drives me crazy sometimes. I think Iím a worse version of who I was back then.

    I guess we all have something to complain about ourselves no matter what..

    By the way, my real name is Cherryl, though Iíd much rather prefer that you call me Chassy. Iím 29 years old and currently accepted a managerial position at a food industry business. I think over the course of my life Iím becoming more of an ENTp (both the good and the bad, unfortunately). I plan to study Psychology here in the Philippines; Ayurveda in California; and retire in Tuscany someday.

    Before you think I'm weird, let me explain that I want to let it out in order for me to pursue it---no backing out now mentality, I guess. Pride has a good side to it sometimes; and right now, when Iím starting to degenerate into an unhealthy P, I need to do this more urgently than before.

    I love animals, especially my dog. Iím pretty much interested in everythingóname it, and Iím probably fascinated by it too.

    Itís really nice sharing ideas with all of you. I hope to get to know more of you hereÖ
    "I never saved anything for the swim back" - Vincent Freeman, Gattaca

  8. #8
    Joy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    TIM
    SEE-Se
    Posts
    24,501
    Mentioned
    58 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde

    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Quote Originally Posted by Arfael
    From the outside, I think Iím quite acting like an ESFp. From the inside, an INTj.
    If you understand the types correctly, that would mean EP temperament with INTj-like values and functions -- that is, an ENTp. That is indeed the most likely explanation, based on what you have said now.
    what about an IJ temperament with ESFp-like values? (not saying she's ISFj, just trying to understand how the "outside" her isn't her "temperament"... )
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

  9. #9

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Philippines
    Posts
    22
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde

    Which description fits you perfectly? INTj or Enneatype 5w4? That is clearly suspicious. If you are an INTj you are probably not a 5w4, and if you are a 5w4 you are probably not an INTj.
    Hmm... 5w4, I think.


    What you describe is not typical of INTjs, and something is probably wrong with your typing of yourself.
    Probably. Maybe you can shed some more light into this.

    I saw that your Jekyll and Mr Hyde picture was taken from an INTP site. If you think that you are an INTP you are probably not an INTj. Maybe you are an INTp, maybe you are some other type. But INTj is not very likely.
    Really? I got it from a review site; though I'm not sure if it's a book review or a movie review. I never realized an INTP used it...

    Enneatype 5w4 corresponds best with INTp, intuitive subtype.
    No exceptions here? Or it's a cut-and-dried rule?
    "I never saved anything for the swim back" - Vincent Freeman, Gattaca

  10. #10
    Expat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    10,853
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde

    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    what about an IJ temperament with ESFp-like values? (not saying she's ISFj, just trying to understand how the "outside" her isn't her "temperament"... )
    The way she described herself, or how others see her, points rather to EP with Alpha NT values.


    Quote Originally Posted by Arfael
    Enneatype 5w4 corresponds best with INTp, intuitive subtype.
    No exceptions here? Or it's a cut-and-dried rule?
    Personally I don't think it's cut-and-dried, although if you are ENTp I would, too, have expected to identify largely with Enneatype 7.

    On the other hand, an INTp is not likely to be seen by others the way you described it.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  11. #11
    Joy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    TIM
    SEE-Se
    Posts
    24,501
    Mentioned
    58 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde

    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus
    Quote Originally Posted by Arfael
    Since I donít know very much about socionics, Iíd like to ask your advice. Iím an INTj 5w4. I am very much sure of this (as the description perfectly fits me to a tee)
    Which description fits you perfectly? INTj or Enneatype 5w4? That is clearly suspicious. If you are an INTj you are probably not a 5w4, and if you are a 5w4 you are probably not an INTj.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arfael
    Is this normal for an INTj to ďactĒ like that in some situations? Or am I having a split type personality, which means Iím actually not who I think I really am? In short: Am I personality-confused? From the outside, I think Iím quite acting like an ESFp. From the inside, an INTj. Sometimes, they switch roles when I'm stressed out or feeling unstable--INTj outside, ESFp inside. What the heck is wrong with me?
    What you describe is not typical of INTjs, and something is probably wrong with your typing of yourself.

    I saw that your Jekyll and Mr Hyde picture was taken from an INTP site. If you think that you are an INTP you are probably not an INTj. Maybe you are an INTp, maybe you are some other type. But INTj is not very likely. Enneatype 5w4 corresponds best with INTp, intuitive subtype.
    1.) enneagram does not directly correlate with socionics... it barely even indirectly correlates with socionics

    2.) an MBTI INTP can most certainly be a socionics INTj

    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    The way she described herself, or how others see her, points rather to EP with Alpha NT values.
    oic
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

  12. #12

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    4,833
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde

    Quote Originally Posted by Arfael
    Hmm... 5w4, I think.
    Okay. Which description(s) of 5w4 do you identify with? How did you come to the conclusion that you are a 5w4? Why are you more of a 5w4 than a 5w6? Have you considered the possibility that you might be a 4w5 (which would indicate that you might be an ethical (F) type)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arfael
    What you describe is not typical of INTjs, and something is probably wrong with your typing of yourself.
    Probably. Maybe you can shed some more light into this.
    I was referring to the descriptions of you made by others. And I agree with Expat that they are not typical of INTps either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arfael
    Really? I got it from a review site; though I'm not sure if it's a book review or a movie review. I never realized an INTP used it...
    Have you read MBTI or Keirsey descriptions of the types? Do you identify with the descriptions of INTPs? Have you compared them with INTJs and other types in those models?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arfael
    Enneatype 5w4 corresponds best with INTp, intuitive subtype.
    No exceptions here? Or it's a cut-and-dried rule?
    No, there is no rule -- at least not yet. It is a reflection of my personal, rather strong opinion that Enneatype 5 belongs to introverted T types, especially INTps and (probably to a slightly lesser degree) INTjs. It is not clear-cut, but 5w6 probably fits an INTj better, and 5w4 probably fits the INTp, intuitive subtype better. INFjs and INFps are not likely to be 5s, if they are correctly typed. They are more likely to be found in Enneatype 4.

    Some ENTps incorrectly identify themselves with MBTI descriptions of INTPs, and they might also test as 5s. But, as Expat points out, the ENTp should identify more with Enneatype 7, at least in comparison with INTps and INTjs. I have met more than one real life ENTp who have had some trouble realizing that they are extraverted types. That has probably something to do with the nature of their dominant function (extraverted intuition).

  13. #13
    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Freiburg im Breisgau
    TIM
    ENTj
    Posts
    15,631
    Mentioned
    157 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    You clearly do not have a 5 "vibe"; you do sound like an Enneagram 7 in most of your posts.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

  14. #14
    Creepy-Diana

    Default Re: Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde

    .

  15. #15
    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Freiburg im Breisgau
    TIM
    ENTj
    Posts
    15,631
    Mentioned
    157 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Ah, she's a girl? Then it's all standard, she could very well be INTj if we restrict the domain of the people complimenting her to the male population
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

  16. #16
    Joy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    TIM
    SEE-Se
    Posts
    24,501
    Mentioned
    58 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I'm sorta stuck on how she said "I act like an IJ but I am more like an EP inside (as evidenced by her writing)" and somehow that meant that the "inside" her means more than the way she actually acts.
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

  17. #17
    Creepy-Diana

    Default

    .

  18. #18
    Joy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    TIM
    SEE-Se
    Posts
    24,501
    Mentioned
    58 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I don't think there's enough information yet to rule out a lot of types... like INFp

    I think that what she's described has shown only that she values Fe, and that she's very stressed out and perhaps even a little depressed and looking to understand herself better in an attempt to regain her grip on her life.
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

  19. #19

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Philippines
    Posts
    22
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde

    Expató I think you are right in saying this:

    The way she described herself, or how others see her, points rather to EP with Alpha NT values.
    That's mostly the impression I make to people especially at first meetings.

    Ms. KensingtonóYou are right in saying that. Many Filipinos are outgoing. I donít know whether I should be included in that statistic, though.

    DianaóMay I know what your type is? I was also very perfectionist before, but I mellowed down. I think it went too well, though. There are moments I just donít care what the outcome is.

    FDGóWhat did you mean by this? Care to explain?

    Ah, she's a girl? Then it's all standard, she could very well be INTj if we restrict the domain of the people complimenting her to the male population
    JoyóIím trying the INFp and the descriptions fit me quite well.

    If you are going to type yourself, do you usually look at how you were while you were young or your present disposition? I think I was an introvert because my surroundings supported that. Would it be safe to say Iím actually an Extrovert but failed to develop it because of how I was brought up?

    Thank you for all your responses. Theyíre truly helpfulÖ
    "I never saved anything for the swim back" - Vincent Freeman, Gattaca

  20. #20

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Philippines
    Posts
    22
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde

    Phaedrus wrote:

    Okay. Which description(s) of 5w4 do you identify with? How did you come to the conclusion that you are a 5w4? Why are you more of a 5w4 than a 5w6? Have you considered the possibility that you might be a 4w5 (which would indicate that you might be an ethical (F) type)?
    Here is my result in a written test I took:

    Cognitive Process

    extraverted Sensing (Se)
    limited use

    introverted Sensing (Si)
    average use

    extraverted Intuiting (Ne)
    good use

    introverted Intuiting (Ni)
    excellent use

    extraverted Thinking (Te)
    good use

    introverted Thinking (Ti)
    good use

    extraverted Feeling (Fe)
    limited use

    introverted Feeling (Fi)
    excellent use

    If I'm going to rank it, the first is Ni followed by Fi, then Ti, Te, Ne, Si, Fe and the last is Se.

    Here is the summary report:

    Summary Analysis of Profile
    By focusing on the strongest configuration of cognitive processes, your pattern of responses most closely matches individuals of this type: INTJ

    Lead (Dominant) Process
    Introverted Intuiting (Ni): Transforming with a meta-perspective. Withdrawing from the world and focusing your mind to receive an insight or realization. Checking if synergy results. Trying out a realization to transform things.

    Support (Auxilliary) Process
    Extraverted Thinking (Te): Measuring and constructing for progress. Making decisions objectively based on evidence and measures. Checking if things function properly. Applying a procedure to control events and complete goals.

    If these cognitive processes don't fit well then consider these types: ENTJ, or INFP

    If these results are different from what you know of yourself, you might consider why your developmental pattern does not align with your expectation. You might also consider exploring this result as a possible better fit.

    I was referring to the descriptions of you made by others. And I agree with Expat that they are not typical of INTps either.
    I don't think I'm close to INTP. It doesn't fit. In fact, I tried reading the alternative types given to me and I found out that the descriptions for ENTJ and INFP fit very very well also. I think it's like I'm a blend of 3 or something.


    Have you read MBTI or Keirsey descriptions of the types? Do you identify with the descriptions of INTPs? Have you compared them with INTJs and other types in those models?
    Yes, I read the MBTI description for INTP and it doesn't fit. The INTJ fits me very well. I'm not sure about Keirsey, but is it the one with the 4 groups? If that's the one, my result was Rational.


    It is not clear-cut, but 5w6 probably fits an INTj better, and 5w4 probably fits the INTp, intuitive subtype better. INFjs and INFps are not likely to be 5s, if they are correctly typed. They are more likely to be found in Enneatype 4.
    I was reading the description for 5w4, 5w6 and 4w5. I was struck by this statement:

    4/5 and 5/4 both have strong feelings which they repress, but because their feelings are stronger than their repression, 4/5s are more aware than 5/4 of their inner emotional state. Consequently, they are more likely to become depressed.

    In most cases, I am not aware of what I feel. I once read there's a term to it: "Alexithymic". It's the inability to distinguish what a person is feeling. But I think I'm more into the repressive thing--- it becomes so deep that I'm really not aware of what I feel. In most cases, the emotions surface when I'm alone and silent for a really long time. It's very difficult for me, though. I don't like to dwell on what I feel. It's tremendously uncomfortable.

    I remember there was this incident when I had a fight with my friend. He was really becoming emotional; I was detached and not paying attention. When I went home, I was reading this illustrative book when suddenly, I thought of him. Then I felt really restless and guilty and that's when I broke down. I wasn't even aware how much the incident affected me. I thought it was no big deal. But it really took me a long period of introspection before I can recognize that.

    I also don't think I'm purely 5w6, although I'm thinking maybe I'm double-winged: 5w4 & 6. Could that be possible? I'm not suspicious of people, neither am I paranoid--probably because I have a very advanced intuition that tells me if that person can be trusted or not. It's 99% fool-proof. But I do crave for social contact, sometimes; and I have this innate need to be liked by people too.

    This is a long post. Self-analysis sucks

    Thanks for the response.
    "I never saved anything for the swim back" - Vincent Freeman, Gattaca

  21. #21

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    4,833
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde

    Quote Originally Posted by Arfael
    I don't think I'm close to INTP. It doesn't fit. In fact, I tried reading the alternative types given to me and I found out that the descriptions for ENTJ and INFP fit very very well also. I think it's like I'm a blend of 3 or something.
    Okay. We are making progress. But from now on I suggest that you write "INTj" when you are referring to the socionic type and "INTJ" (with a capital J) when you are referring to the MBTI type. Otherwise we don't know which type descriptions you have in mind.

    The test you took looks like an MBTI test of some sort, so we can't draw any clear conclusions based on the strength of your functions according to that test.

    You say that you don't think that you are close to INTP. Do you mean MBTI type descriptions of INTPs or socionic type descriptions of INTps? Then you say that you fit both ENTJ and INFP (MBTI or Socionics?). That is impossible. You can't fit both ENTJ/ENTj and INFP/INFp descriptions well. Those two types are too different.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arfael
    I read the MBTI description for INTP and it doesn't fit. The INTJ fits me very well. I'm not sure about Keirsey, but is it the one with the 4 groups? If that's the one, my result was Rational.
    My limited experience indicates that if you are an INTp, it is not unlikely that you can identify with both INTJ/INTj and INTP/INTp descriptions to some degree, but unlikely that you can identify with ENTJ/ENTj. On the other hand, if you are an INTj, it is not unlikely that you don't identify with INTP/INTp descriptions, and more likely that you can identify with ENTJ/ENTj descriptions.

    As you know there are four Rational types in Keirsey's model. Test results doesn't say much if you don't read the type descriptions carefully.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arfael
    In most cases, I am not aware of what I feel. I once read there's a term to it: "Alexithymic". Or maybe the repression is so deep that I'm really not aware of what I feel.
    That is an indication that you might be a T type.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arfael
    I also don't think I'm 5w6, although I'm thinking maybe I'm double-winged: 5w4 & 6. Could that be possible? I'm not suspicious of people, neither am I paranoid--probably because I have a very advanced intuition that tells me if that person can be trusted or not. It's 99% fool-proof. But I do crave for social contact, sometimes; and I have this innate need to be liked by people too.
    It is possible to identify with both wings in the Enneagram. Which wing descriptions have you read. They can sometimes be rather different.

  22. #22
    Creepy-Diana

    Default

    .

  23. #23

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Philippines
    Posts
    22
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde

    Okay. We are making progress. But from now on I suggest that you write "INTj" when you are referring to the socionic type and "INTJ" (with a capital J) when you are referring to the MBTI type. Otherwise we don't know which type descriptions you have in mind.
    Yehey!!! We are making progress!!!

    The test you took looks like an MBTI test of some sort, so we can't draw any clear conclusions based on the strength of your functions according to that test.
    Yes, it was MBTI.
    You say that you don't think that you are close to INTP. Do you mean MBTI type descriptions of INTPs or socionic type descriptions of INTps?
    I'm not close to INTp. When I read INTP, it fits very closely.

    Then you say that you fit both ENTJ and INFP (MBTI or Socionics?). That is impossible.
    Both for MBTI.

    This is what I can relate with ENTj:

    ENTjs are very enthusiastic when starting new projects sometimes becoming so passionate that they can forget about everything else. They normally start small, gradually working their way up to bigger things. They can work very hard and extremely quickly, often working on many tasks simultaneously. ENTjs like to figure out and try many things. They are not the sort of people who blindly believe in phenomena that cannot be proved, for example UFOs, telekinesis and ESP. They are often very curious and dynamic people often experiencing a great variety of occupations during their lifetimes. They are always experimenting and sometimes get involved in projects that others started but couldn't finish.

    This is what I can relate with INFp (when I feel like putting up a small effort) :

    Their gait is usually graceful and full of poise as they like to project an image of self-worthiness. INFps have a very good understanding of harmony and know well how to successfully combine clothes and accessories, resulting in their characteristic, elegant appearance.With strangers INFps behave gallantly and tactfully, showing good manners and education. However among friends and family they can be very up front sometimes behaving frivolously. They enjoy baiting others in a playful manner in order to create an easy and tension-free atmosphere.

    You can't fit both ENTJ/ENTj and INFP/INFp descriptions well. Those two types are too different.
    Only bits and pieces of both for Socionics, not all of them. For MBTI, I think it's more like they become interchangeable--one time I'm ENTJ; next time, I'm INFP. (I'm more familiar with MBTI. I haven't thoroughly studied Socionics, though I know only the basics)

    It is possible to identify with both wings in the Enneagram. Which wing descriptions have you read. They can sometimes be rather different.
    This one: http://mindheart.org/junction/oldcj/ep/types/index.html

    Thanks a whole bunch :wink:
    "I never saved anything for the swim back" - Vincent Freeman, Gattaca

  24. #24
    Creepy-Diana

    Default

    .

  25. #25

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Philippines
    Posts
    22
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Diana
    Wait, did you say you read the socionics INFp description and identified with it too?
    Yes, quite. But not all of it, though. I don't particularly relate to this, though:

    They are also inclined to small talk. It can sometimes prove difficult for others to hold INFps attention during interaction. They may unexpectedly disrupt a conversation by commenting in such a way as to give the impression that they are not following the subject. This can confuse or puzzle others.

    INFps enjoy interesting or humorous anecdotes and stories. They often recall and share notable episodes from their own life experiences. In situations where they are required to give a answer they often delay the inevitable until the last moment even if they have reached a decision by evading and camouflaging their intent.

    They like an extravagant style of life which is why their demands often outweigh their resources. INFps more than any other type are inclined to marry because of wealth instead of love. INFps will often accumulate their complaints in order release them all in one go in an appropriate situation. In fact, people who show concern about INFps health and well being and who listen to their problems are very much appreciated.

    I prefer someone who tries to understand me (quite challenging, though)

    What do you think? I think I'm a mutant.
    "I never saved anything for the swim back" - Vincent Freeman, Gattaca

  26. #26
    Creepy-Diana

    Default

    .

  27. #27

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    4,833
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Arfael
    I'm not close to INTp. When I read INTP, it fits very closely.
    Do you identify with Paul James INTP description?

    http://www.intp.org/intprofile.html

    He describes an INTp, intuitive subtype, but of course everything he says about the functions is false. Focus on the thinking processes and actual behaviour of that INTP.

    Socionic descriptions of INTps are different, and it took me a long time to realize that they are actually describing the same type as in the MBTI descriptions of INTPs. If you identify with Paul James description you should also identify with Stratiyevskaya's INTp description here:

    http://the16types.no-ip.info/forums/...=142731#142731

    Quote Originally Posted by Arfael
    This is what I can relate with ENTj:

    ENTjs are very enthusiastic when starting new projects sometimes becoming so passionate that they can forget about everything else. They normally start small, gradually working their way up to bigger things. They can work very hard and extremely quickly, often working on many tasks simultaneously. ENTjs like to figure out and try many things. They are not the sort of people who blindly believe in phenomena that cannot be proved, for example UFOs, telekinesis and ESP. They are often very curious and dynamic people often experiencing a great variety of occupations during their lifetimes. They are always experimenting and sometimes get involved in projects that others started but couldn't finish.
    Someone with an EP temperament would probably relate to a lot of things there too. Which of the four socionic temperaments do you identify most with? Read Kristiina's post on page 1 of this thread:

    http://the16types.no-ip.info/forums/...pic.php?t=5697

    If you also read the comments, that is even better. Can you rule out one of the temperaments as absolutely not you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arfael
    This is what I can relate with INFp (when I feel like putting up a small effort) :

    Their gait is usually graceful and full of poise as they like to project an image of self-worthiness. INFps have a very good understanding of harmony and know well how to successfully combine clothes and accessories, resulting in their characteristic, elegant appearance.With strangers INFps behave gallantly and tactfully, showing good manners and education. However among friends and family they can be very up front sometimes behaving frivolously. They enjoy baiting others in a playful manner in order to create an easy and tension-free atmosphere.
    It is hard to tell whether that is typical only of INFps. I wouldnt' read too much into that.


    Quote Originally Posted by Arfael
    It is possible to identify with both wings in the Enneagram. Which wing descriptions have you read. They can sometimes be rather different.
    This one: http://mindheart.org/junction/oldcj/ep/types/index.html
    Read and compare these too, please:

    http://www.thechangeworks.com/ennpri...#anchor1998933 (compare the wings of other types too on that site)

    http://www.ocean-moonshine.net/e1428...position=12:12

  28. #28
    MysticSonic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,993
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    It seems unlikely, given your spontaneity of thought, that you're INTj.
    "To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"

    "Angels dancing on the head of a pin dissolve into nothingness at the bedside of a dying child."

  29. #29

    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    992
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    In my opinion Baby is probably (ethical subtype) ISFJ and MysticSonic (intuitive subtype) ENTP. Descriptions are useless, the types emerge out of thin air, (or maybe somehow through the dichotomies, etc.)
    "Arnie is strong, rightfully angry and wants to kill somebody."
    martin_g_karlsson


  30. #30
    Creepy-Diana

    Default

    .

  31. #31

    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    992
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    YES!
    Ok, I am tired of playing with the functions.
    The types are real, IMO, but they do not really make much sense.
    "Arnie is strong, rightfully angry and wants to kill somebody."
    martin_g_karlsson


  32. #32
    Creepy-Diana

    Default

    .

  33. #33
    Expat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    10,853
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Diana
    They don't make sense to me either. The more I try to figure out, the less sense it makes.
    Why? To me it does make sense. Perhaps you're concentrating too much in small contradictions in descriptions that do not really matter for the types as a whole.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  34. #34
    Creepy-Diana

    Default

    .

  35. #35
    Joy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    TIM
    SEE-Se
    Posts
    24,501
    Mentioned
    58 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousSoul
    In my opinion Baby is probably (ethical subtype) ISFJ and MysticSonic (intuitive subtype) ENTP. Descriptions are useless, the types emerge out of thin air, (or maybe somehow through the dichotomies, etc.)
    I could actually see that...
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

  36. #36
    Expat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    10,853
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Diana
    Maybe. I think it's that I've been trying to understand the functions, and that's where a lot of the contradictions lie. Also there seem to be some stereotypes of functions and types that when you read the descriptions (especially the long Strate... ones) don't pan out at all. The types don't sound like what people have made them out to be in many cases. Not to me.
    I think a few things must be kept in mind.

    First, the "reality" are the different types, and their relationships -- those are what we actually observe. Functions, Quadras, Reinin Dichotomies, etc, are attempts to explain how the types originate and how exactly they make the relationships work like that. So, for instance, the same behavioral traits can be explained as being due to one function, or another, or a combination of Reinin Dichotomies, or simply as a consequence of the temperament.

    If I remember correctly, Jonathan said that he identified with the PoLR description of INFp (or ISFp?) in Stratyevskaya's profile; when to me what she was attributing to PoLR was largely a description of IP temperament.

    So, in the specific case of Stratyevskaya's descriptions, I think that they are excellent - or even the best - in describing what makes each type unique and how they behave and what motivates them; however, I also think that the functional attribution is often erroneous in her descriptions.

    The functions, being theoretical constructs, can't ever be objectively measured in isolation, especially as everyone agrees that, say, accepting Te is different from creative Te in the ego and that it works differently if paired with Ni or Si. And so on and so forth.

    So I think it's natural that functional attributions will vary from one author to the other, at least in the specifics; surely, if someone attributes to Si, say, the same thing than another attributes to Fe, something is obviously incorrect.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  37. #37
    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Freiburg im Breisgau
    TIM
    ENTj
    Posts
    15,631
    Mentioned
    157 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I agree with Expat, and I would say that probably the stratsevskaya descriptions are better suited to get to know better the singlar type after the typing has been done, but that can be somewhat confusing if we try to determine our type by reading them.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

  38. #38
    Creepy-Diana

    Default

    .

  39. #39
    Exits, pursued by a bear. Animal's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    TIM
    It sneaks up on you
    Posts
    3,051
    Mentioned
    83 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousSoul
    In my opinion Baby is probably (ethical subtype) ISFJ and MysticSonic (intuitive subtype) ENTP. Descriptions are useless, the types emerge out of thin air, (or maybe somehow through the dichotomies, etc.)
    An hour talking with me in in real-time (IRC/IM/phone), and I'm sure you'll think otherwise.

    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    First, the "reality" are the different types, and their relationships -- those are what we actually observe. Functions, Quadras, Reinin Dichotomies, etc, are attempts to explain how the types originate and how exactly they make the relationships work like that. So, for instance, the same behavioral traits can be explained as being due to one function, or another, or a combination of Reinin Dichotomies, or simply as a consequence of the temperament.

    ...

    The functions, being theoretical constructs, can't ever be objectively measured in isolation, especially as everyone agrees that, say, accepting Te is different from creative Te in the ego and that it works differently if paired with Ni or Si. And so on and so forth.
    This for me is the root of my incertitude in Socionics. If we consider that these processes/preferences/what have you that we have designated as "functions" are admittedly approximations and heuristic devices, we need to extend this qualification to the larger manifestations (that is, types, intertype relations, etc.). It just does not make sense that we can admit that the functions are merely theoretical constructs, and yet the sixteen types must be hard and fast "rules" of reality.

    It is not without irony that our representations of the functions are literally black and white. I think, for the most part, we have failed to acknowledge that there is gray. It is too easy to ignore the obvious reality that the types are just as much a theoretical device as the functions, and that everything can be conveniently explained away by means of these devices. I see no reason to believe that there can be no such thing as an ENXx somewhere out there, nor do I see any reason to believe that the introverted/extroverted dichotomy is completely irreconcilable in one swift motion of the psyche.
    "How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
    -- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet

  40. #40

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Philippines
    Posts
    22
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Balzac
    I'm leaning towards INFp as well (I thought that from the beginning, actually). As a side note, I hear that it's not uncommon for people to at first think they are their beneficiary (INTj is the beneficiary of INFp). Plus INFps are very fond of denying that they're charming/sweet/warm-hearted.

    Where did you read the descriptions? The traditional INFp descriptions tend to suck, I think most INFps with an ounce of moral fibre are going to have objections. As Diana said, Baby tends to write good descriptions without pandering to stereotypes, and his writing style is generally pleasant.

    When I was in college, I remembered I tested INFJ in an MBTI test. Somehow I doubted it, because I knew I wasn't a feeling type. But then I realized I was becoming more in touch with my emotions during that time, trying to understand its mechanisms (my psychology class required us to). I think it was the reason why I scored an F there. When the class ended, most of my subsequent tests all had T results. As much as I've developed my F to the point where I've attained quite a bit of competency to it, I will always choose T because it's what I feel most comfortable using. Even now, when Iíve learned to be very empathetic and compassionate, I still have moments where it's a struggle to access my feelings.

    I asked my best friend yesterday if she thinks I'm a P or J. She said P. I was quite surprised by it; because all the while I thought I was J. Then she gave me so many reasons to support that and I'm finally convinced I'm a P. I can't believe it took me so long to notice. I always thought that when you like to schedule things and when you have a things to do list then you are a J. I just read that thereís more to thatóeven Pís do it too. The difference is that Pís can easily adapt to changes in their schedule while Jís prefer to finish what theyíve written on itóthey always want something to fall back on. So consequently, any minor or major changes in their things to do list can inadvertently stress them out. Among many other reasons that are too long to mention, I can relate more to the former one better.

    I think youíre right that Iím a P, although I think the F is a bit off track. Regardless of how Iíve changed all these years, I think my T still leads a couple of lines more than F if I am going to place a line between a T and F continuum.

    Thanks.
    "I never saved anything for the swim back" - Vincent Freeman, Gattaca

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •