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Thread: Outgoing and socially involved SLIs-ISTps

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    Default Outgoing and socially involved SLIs-ISTps

    I know a couple ISTps, an old boyfriend and my mom, who are extremely outgoing. I was really scratching my head about their types for a while, until Peter said that my mom is INTp. INTp doesn't make sense for her because she has shitty Ni, but I suggested ISTp and he agreed. Later she tested ISTp, and the more I learn about socionics, the most sense it makes. The other one tested ISTp and said that the description fits him very well. I compared his behavior to my mom's and it all made sense...

    Both of these ISTps are very outgoing. They try to be sun shiney and very friendly, but it's horribly awkward and embarassing and they are generally not well liked. My mom has a bit of an easier time because she has friends from church who do the fake sunshiney thing as well to some extent and really relate to her, like an INFj (she's also good friends with his ENFp wife).

    The 4th function is a conscious function... it's one we can use but cannot control. There are a lot of people who overcompensate for their 4th function, and these two are perfect examples.

    Has anyone else observed this behavior in ISTps?
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    I kinda used to be like that. I live in a very outgoing environment, and I would force myself to be “sun shiney and very friendly” with everyone; but like you said it was rather awkward; because it didn’t come natural to me.
    It wasn’t until I found out about socionics and MBTI that I decided to quit the bs and just be myself.
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    I know a very outgoing Si subt istp. More outgoing than me for sure. He's well liked too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sniper Kitten
    I kinda used to be like that. I live in a very outgoing environment, and I would force myself to be “sun shiney and very friendly” with everyone; but like you said it was rather awkward; because it didn’t come natural to me.
    It wasn’t until I found out about socionics and MBTI that I decided to quit the bs and just be myself.
    Me exactly.
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    Yaah the outgoing ISTPs rule

    ENFPs can still occasionally intimidate me into iceY mode...
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    Quote Originally Posted by IcEPiCk
    Yaah the outgoing ISTPs rule

    ENFPs can still occasionally intimidate me into iceY mode...
    How do they intimidate you?
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    I dunno they dont so much anymore, but enfps can make super super aggressive moves sometimes that make you feel like you cant do anything but freeze and hope for the best.

    Hope that makes sense.
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    Yeah, that's true, unfortunately. ISTp are said to be overly self confident, but that's not quite true in my experience. I've seen my ISTp friend feel threatened by me several times.

    It sometimes happens when we have diffrenet points of view about a topic. Mostly when his knowledge about something is practical and mine theoretical. If he says something and I start questioning his logic, he seems to freeze or become aggresive. ISTp are not very good with abstract stuff and they feel intimidated when someone discusses it with them.

    More than once my friend has asked me to explain him something abstract and I suppose he sees me as a figure of authority in some areas.

    Also, I suppose ISTp feel threatened by the ENFp because we notice many things they manage to hide to other people.

    Finally, we at times have a corrosive sense of humor...
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikemex
    Also, I suppose ISTp feel threatened by the ENFp because we notice many things they manage to hide to other people.
    Bingo! Ive noticed that too. With ISTPs I know, we have a secret dialogue of movements and eye contact and inner understanding. The longer we associate the more in tune our understanding becomes. They seem to like it and feel weird about it at the same time because it makes them feel vulnerable. One ISTP I know will try to stay away if he is planning something he doesnt want me to know about. He knows that I will see right through him. I dont share that kind of information with anyone though. Its not my place to do so. Its personal and private.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikemex
    ISTp are not very good with abstract stuff and they feel intimidated when someone discusses it with them.
    And i'd really love to know why I only attract those types. I end up feeling pathetic when they talk to me because they'll go on a 20 minute conversation on the meaning of life and i'll idiotically respond with a " ...uhhhh okay...." and that's the end of that, haha. Conversation is overrated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by electric
    The only thing I'm nervous about ENFps is their ability to change their entire life plan in a matter of days sometimes hours, leading me to think they didn't really think it through.
    I can only talk for myself but yes i could change my life plan on a dime. Maybe if i was with the right girl i could consider settling down. At this point in time buying a house / starting a life in a certian area seems unappealing. Theres too many things that i could do

    I do think things through though so i would give it as much thought as i believed it warranted.

    The two ISTp guys i know are more Outgoing than me. My good friend isn't brilliant with people but the other one everyone seems to like naturally.
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    Quote Originally Posted by electric
    The only thing I'm nervous about ENFps is their ability to change their entire life plan in a matter of days sometimes hours, leading me to think they didn't really think it through.
    I used to be like that, (or at least seem like that) One reason it seemed like that was because I may not have discussed what I was planning on doing with anyone. I just discussed their stuff and if they never bothered asking me I might have forgot to tell them where I was mentally. I think in part is because I dont want someone talking me out of something I really want to do, so I just dont bring it up. Especially because Im usually sorting through the details in my mind. For example I havent mentioned it to my landlord that Im thinking about moving because in January I start school again. Im not sure if I'll be able to swing the rent. I havent nailed down another place to stay yet but I need to right away. If I procrastinate too long its going to be a shock to them when I say I gotta bounce. They have been super nice to me so I want to break it to them easy. I might have to stick around for a little longer than I really wanted. I never like to leave places on bad terms or hurt feelings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by electric
    The only thing I'm nervous about ENFps is their ability to change their entire life plan in a matter of days sometimes hours, leading me to think they didn't really think it through.
    I was just in the shower thinking about this. The ISTp's i know that are my age also seem a little scattered about their life plans.

    For instance the ISTp friend of mine told me yesterday that he might move into a granny flat on the river, then he said a bit later he wanted to move out with his friend up in the hills. Then i mentioned to him i wouldn't mind living in England and he said "lets do it". I looked at his wall and he had a do to list and one of his items was "move to tasmania"

    Another ISTp girl i talked to on the net said she wanted to move to the south of france and live there. About a month later she moved to Fiji following this guy she likes. I dont know if Fiji would be a good place to live atm though

    So i dunno ISTp's also seem a little restless too
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    I know several istps that are outgoing. I think when they 1st meet people they try to size them up to figure what they are all about. I use to work along side one and we use to talk and joke about observations of people and situations all day long( we worked in a job that we had to deal with people all day long. We thought along similar lines so we come up with the same conclusions alot on things. I work with a guy now thats an istp and he is real outgoing.I had a roommate when i was in the military that was an istp and he was real outgoing and outspoken. They are very well liked and popular and respected among everyone one. They are also physically dominate and can be intimidating if the situtation calls for it but are not bullies like the esfp or estp can be at times especially during childhood.(esfp's are more hot tempered ,estps are more calculating from what i observed from my circle of friends and family and acquaintances) Many of the outgoing ones are very outspoken types also i notice. I noticed they are very intuned to people's feelings also. They are also very compassionite people. You can see that it is from their heart. Istp's like to joke around laugh and like people to joke around aslo. I think a lot depends if they grew up in a large family or and around lot of people during early childhood that determimes their outgoingness.

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    Quote Originally Posted by meatburger
    About a month later she moved to Fiji following this guy she likes.
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    My ISTp husband moved to the US from Australia after knowing me not that long. Is it weirder because it's Fiji?
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    was he WITH you at the time though, or did he just like you?
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    Default SLI social introverts or just introverts???

    In the SLI descriptions you always get the impression that a SLI is just about the most unsocial creature you can run into

    but this seems like a caricature more that reality

    the way I see it I have met different kinds of sociability in SLI

    OK one friend of mine is the textbook SLI . Quiet, seemingly indifferent. She doesn't speak two words with most ppl only the ones she knows very well. Deep inside I think she really want to talk to ppl more and that she is a bit shy

    another SLI friend of mine is also pretty quiet. But at the same time he does like hanging out with others. He is just really calm, and prefers to listen. Then once in a while he will comment on some thing completely unexpected and crack me up. He is really funny Plus he's pretty friendly. Maybe not outgoing but definitely welcomming to everyone

    another of my SLIs you might mistake for an extrovert. He can be kind of a party animal occasionally. He hangs with the same large group of friends and as I mentioned doesn't seem introverted at all. But this is just the him that he wants ppl to see. From the first time I met him, I knew he wasn't like that at all. What he really wants is to chill out one on one and do relaxing stuff, talk about private stuff and so on. He just doesn't let ppl know this. His friends are the same he has had since he was a kid, and he just keeps to old cirkles, with no regard to compatability. I mean he just falls in and try to be percieved as "normal", the ppl he happens to be friends with defining the norm
    but when you get to know him he's really individualistic. He just keeps this to him self

    the fourth SLI I know is quite comfortable being around ppl. He's quite extrovertet when out and about, but still maintains a sence of self. At home he's really introverted though, and don't want to call up friends and meet up at all. Once he's in his pyjamas

    anyways, what is you guys take on this?
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    Yes, I agree. The SLIs I know have a much more consistent friend group that they hang out with every weekend. While sometimes I won't see certain friends for a few weeks.

    But they're quite social.
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    Introverts aren't necessarily shy and quiet and antisocial. These are stereotypes, often exaggerated ones. Social introversion and extraversion aren't the same as being a socionics introtim or extratim, that's an MBTT dichotomy. You can easily be a social extravert and a socionics introtim and vice versa. Besides, introversion is simply characterized as whether you gain or lose energy from social situations and how comfortable you are with new people. The longer an introvert knows you, the more he will open up and appear extraverted, and the less energy you will rob from him. Introverts can even throw parties - occasionally. An introvert probably won't throw many parties in a short period of time, and they tend to be smaller and more relaxed, with the same small group of people invited every time.

    Some exaggerated extravert and introvert subtext.

    E: I talked to 12 strangers today! Now I wanna have a party!
    I: I had to talk to 12 strangers today, I think I'm gonna have a quiet night at home.

    E: I really wanna hang out with Friend A. [calls Friend A, who is unavailable]. I guess I'll hang out with Friend B.
    I: I really wanna hang out with Friend A. [calls Friend A, who is unavailable]. I guess I'll wait for another day.

    E: That party was awesome! I wanna go to another one tomorrow!
    I: That party was awesome! But I'm mentally and emotionally exhausted. I think that fulfills my social quota for the week.

    E: I haven't done anything social in a long time. I need to hang out with someone NOW.
    I: I haven't done anything social in a long time. [shrugs] Eh, they can call me if they wanna do something.

    E: [tells deepest darkest secret to someone he's only known for a month]
    I: [refuses to tell deepest darkest secret until he's known you for years]

    E: I'm having a quiet night at home, so I'll only call my best friend and we'll chill.
    I: I'm having a quiet night at home. Nobody better fucking bother me.
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    cool post. But that's my point. Socionics keep stating social introversion <> introversion but still the type descriptions give this misleading picture
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    Well, I think i'm reconsidering my type tbh, but the thing about descriptions imo is that they're always going to be through the lens of the person that wrote it, and in this context, the lens of socionic type.

    For instance, an SLI might seem quiet to one person, and expressive to another, and then equate expressive with not being quiet. Man, I dunno, some people can interpret Fe PoLR as being quiet, just because they're not making lots of "Fe" noise.

    I suppose that in most cases, "I" types will be speak less than an "E" types. Although - in my observation, vast majority of LOGICAL types are socially reserved in comparison to ETHICAL types, ethical types just have a better understanding of group relations or group dynamics than logical types from an emotive perspective, so they can interact with more confidence in that area (ie socialising) whether they are I or E.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryu View Post
    Yeah.
    Quote Originally Posted by dattebayo View Post
    cool post.
    thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    Well, I think i'm reconsidering my type tbh, but the thing about descriptions imo is that they're always going to be through the lens of the person that wrote it, and in this context, the lens of socionic type.

    For instance, an SLI might seem quiet to one person, and expressive to another, and then equate expressive with not being quiet. Man, I dunno, some people can interpret Fe PoLR as being quiet, just because they're not making lots of "Fe" noise.

    I suppose that in most cases, "I" types will be speak less than an "E" type. Although - in my observation, vast majority of LOGICAL types are socially reserved in comparison to ETHICAL types, ethical types just have a better understanding of group relations or group dynamics than logical types so they can interact with more confidence in that area whether they are I or E.
    yeah I sort of see your point. But at the same time there is a certain introvertet quality to all the SLIs I know

    my boy friend for instance. Just watching him eat can make him smile. There is just something about the way he immerses him self in what he's doing. Like he internalizes everything he does, whether it is eating, walking, putting the plates in the cupboard or anything other physical heh for me watching that is just mindblowing and alien. It is really appealing
    n00bIEE

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryu View Post
    thanks
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    Quote Originally Posted by dattebayo View Post
    cool post. But that's my point. Socionics keep stating social introversion <> introversion but still the type descriptions give this misleading picture
    Type descriptions aren't really so hot. I just wrote a bit about that in another thread and also copied it to my blog. It's good to get a variety of them (check out the ones on wikipedia's individual type pages), but even then, they are only profiles.

    Rick, on his website, socionics.us, (or actually it's his blog, but you can find it from there I think), had a very good article about extroverted intratims and introverted extratims. It explains social intro/extroversion vs socionics intratim/extratim.

    It's a very good article. One of the key points is that extratims, regardless of social intro/extroversion, are prone to starting and making their own initiatives, and tend to be less receptive to other people's initiatives, or even dislike them. (When I was 'less extroverted', I always related to that part of extratims). WHere as intratims are more prone to other people offering and suggesting intiatives onto them, and are more comfortable with taking and accepting, even expecting people to 'come to them' or 'suggest things to them'.

    I never realized how much intratims actually are different that way until relatively recently. It's not an unbreakable rule, but, it's a major tendency I've seen.

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    thanks I'll check it out

    this stuff really is interesting heh I'm gonna miss dinner over this one
    n00bIEE

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    Quote Originally Posted by dattebayo View Post
    yeah I sort of see your point. But at the same time there is a certain introvertet quality to all the SLIs I know

    my boy friend for instance. Just watching him eat can make him smile. There is just something about the way he immerses him self in what he's doing. Like he internalizes everything he does, whether it is eating, walking, putting the plates in the cupboard or anything other physical heh for me watching that is just mindblowing and alien. It is really appealing
    Yeah I may be rambling lol, what I suppose is that the more use of the T type in a person the more socially introverted they'll be than just introverted. When you think about someone with strong Te, say even an ESTj, when they're talking - and they can talk a lot - they're talking about factual, logical stuff.

    But for socialising and the like, just general chit chat, influencing the group in terms of how they feel or get on, that's F.

    So probably from that POV, a SLI-Si will be able to engage in general socialising than an SLI-Te (becaus an SLI-Si uses his Fe more).

    --------

    When you think about what they're talking about, like someone rambling on about the factual information of some film or band or their hobby, it's a list of data almost, for a Te type.

    Like what you're doing:

    my boy friend for instance. Just watching him eat can make him smile. There is just something about the way he immerses him self in what he's doing. Like he internalizes everything he does, whether it is eating, walking, putting the plates in the cupboard or anything other physical heh for me watching that is just mindblowing and alien. It is really appealing
    Is you're talking about the way he makes it make you and he feel, if he was to talk about the meal, he'd probably just say it was good or list what he ate and if he enjoyed it (facts analysed logically). (Which ones creates the most conversation? )
    Last edited by Cyclops; 08-14-2009 at 04:35 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dattebayo View Post
    the fourth SLI I know...
    You know four SLIs? You must be a magnet.
    ISTp
    SLI

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    I agree with the Socionics introverted =/= social introversion. I've met quite a few SiTe and gotten to know them, and they were all ranges of social. The first SiTe I was involved with that pretty much the most socially introverted person I know. Like, I wouldn't be surprised if he got hives breakouts whenever I asked him to go out. He was pretty monotone, a lump in social situations, rather direct in what he had to say... Yeah, I wasn't too pleased about that. There were some others that were similar, but not the same, but then I met 2 SiTe who are rather against the stereotype. One I work with, he's younger and drinks way too often, has people over to drink often, is always visiting. He has an "introvert voice" (i somehow coined this lol) and while at work he'll be doing more things then chatting, but I can easily distract him (love this ability of mine!). The other one I'm friends with is mostly overwhelmed by work and doing his own thing, but he doesn't mind being dragged out, and he's very social, telling stories, making all sorts of faces and stuff. He's awesome to have around. And what's kinda funny/cute is that nearer to the end of a hang out, he's always really tired looking. Like, falling asleep on his feet tired. I can tell all this socializing saps him because he's usually working and not sleeping a lot, so it's funny to watch

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    It really all depends on my overall mood and the people I'm hanging out with. I'm sure there are some people who think I'm the quietes person they've ever met and then I'm sure there are a few who would classify me as an extrovert no doubt. It's interesting how much of a difference the persons vibe makes when it comes to me being outgoing.

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    I can turn it on when I have to. I have to do some public speaking for my job from time to time, and I'm most comfortable in a Q&A setting where I can fire back quips at the audience. I hate doing lectures.

    But I never volunteer to do it.
    ISTp
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    Enneagram 5 with a side of wings.

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    Some SLIs will be less introverted (in the non-Socionic sense) than others. My husband is very much so, but I know some who are much less. I don't know if I can think of any who are as extraverted as I am, though.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
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    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

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    I am very introverted and generally reserved, but may appear extroverted around people I feel comfortable with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrano View Post
    I'm most comfortable in a Q&A setting where I can fire back quips at the audience. I hate doing lectures.
    I know I would feel the same way in your place.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    I know a couple ISTps, an old boyfriend and my mom, who are extremely outgoing. I was really scratching my head about their types for a while, until Peter said that my mom is INTp. INTp doesn't make sense for her because she has shitty Ni, but I suggested ISTp and he agreed. Later she tested ISTp, and the more I learn about socionics, the most sense it makes. The other one tested ISTp and said that the description fits him very well. I compared his behavior to my mom's and it all made sense...

    Both of these ISTps are very outgoing. They try to be sun shiney and very friendly, but it's horribly awkward and embarassing and they are generally not well liked. My mom has a bit of an easier time because she has friends from church who do the fake sunshiney thing as well to some extent and really relate to her, like an INFj (she's also good friends with his ENFp wife).

    The 4th function is a conscious function... it's one we can use but cannot control. There are a lot of people who overcompensate for their 4th function, and these two are perfect examples.

    Has anyone else observed this behavior in ISTps?
    Quote Originally Posted by Sniper Kitten View Post
    I kinda used to be like that. I live in a very outgoing environment, and I would force myself to be “sun shiney and very friendly” with everyone; but like you said it was rather awkward; because it didn’t come natural to me.
    It wasn’t until I found out about socionics and MBTI that I decided to quit the bs and just be myself.
    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    I know a very outgoing Si subt istp. More outgoing than me for sure. He's well liked too.
    Quote Originally Posted by meatburger View Post
    The two ISTp guys i know are more Outgoing than me. My good friend isn't brilliant with people but the other one everyone seems to like naturally.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mariella View Post
    My ISTp husband moved to the US from Australia after knowing me not that long. Is it weirder because it's Fiji?
    this is an interesting thread, any more impressions now that its been a few years??

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    Breaking stereotypes Suz's Avatar
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    The ISTp I know always struck me as very outgoing. MUCH more so than me (as other IEEs here have also apparently experienced). Very self confident, can talk easily, fluently, think of witty things to say in a microsecond on his feet. To the point that I spent about 6 months considering him SLE and myself IEI (converting from MBTI was also involved in my GROSS mistypings, as well as probably my inherent IEE-ness). As I got more and more into the socionics theory and discussing my interactions with him with the beta quadra, many aspects just didn't seem to fit or make sense with those typings. When the typings changed to SLI and IEE, suddenly it ALL made sense. Everything.

    Like some others here have said about ISTp's they know, this guy is VERY well liked. He even joked at one point that girls get withdrawal symptoms from him, and frankly. . .it's true.

    Topaz' description of his/her interaction with an SLI describes my interaction with this SLI perfectly:

    Quote Originally Posted by Topaz
    secret dialogue of movements and eye contact and inner understanding. The longer we associate the more in tune our understanding becomes. They seem to like it and feel weird about it at the same time because it makes them feel vulnerable
    . . .and was very different from interactions he (or I for that matter) had with most other people.

    I also got the feeling that he was intimidated by me. And he probably has reason to feel that way. I am better than him in many ways Though he is so great in many ways I wish I were--I dont need or want someone perfect.

    I also unleashed a series of pretty aggressive moves lately (heck maybe i was being "aggressive" before without realizing it), including a full confession of my attraction to him. Unfortunately he decided to pursue a more simple relationship with a probable SEE or SLE before I did so. Perhaps it's part of the SLIs' "bulk analysis". . .whatever He is risking that I find another SLI whom I like more in the meantime while he comes to the realization that his extinguishment or mirage relationship isn't all that. . .
    Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx

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    without the nose Cyrano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    [the ISTp will] think of witty things to say in a microsecond on his feet. .
    I think that's typical, if what I think I say is as witty as I think it is when I say it.

    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    Like some others here have said about ISTp's they know, this guy is VERY well liked. He even joked at one point that girls get withdrawal symptoms from him, and frankly. . .it's true.
    Well, that may not be typical.

    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    I also unleashed a series of pretty aggressive moves lately (heck maybe i was being "aggressive" before without realizing it), including a full confession of my attraction to him.
    You know what worked for me as an ISTp? You have to take it slow. If you attack, he will flee. If you just make your interest known VERY clearly, he will take the next step. But you have to be crystal clear that you are interested, but not too much.

    So you don' say, "WOW I want you." (run away!)

    You should demonstrate that he would have a zero percent chance of failure if he asks."

    That sound weak? From my perspective, the women drive the courtship. We are ALWAYS interested if she looks good and would be receptive. If she's TOO interested, she must be desperate. (run away!)

    So if you think you've gone too far, back off, keep the channels open, but the ball is his now.
    ISTp
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    Enneagram 5 with a side of wings.

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    I'm outgoing when I wanna get something.
    "Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."

    - Voltaire

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    Ah, yes, the 'ol "ask without asking."

    Who says men aren't complicated??

    *sigh* I do not have enough patience to date you guys. I wish I did, but having to play mind games just makes me annoyed and I end up leaving.
    IEE

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrano View Post
    Well, that may not be typical.
    haha .


    Quote Originally Posted by tiny_dancer View Post
    Ah, yes, the 'ol "ask without asking."

    Who says men aren't complicated??

    *sigh* I do not have enough patience to date you guys. I wish I did, but having to play mind games just makes me annoyed and I end up leaving.
    For sure, men are also complicated. Of course I'm biased when I say that women are more complicated in general, but let's not go there.

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