ISTps and social skills/competence

[jessica129]

I recently just broke up with a boyfriend of 2 years. It was not pretty. Basically, he told me i had no social skills and would never amount to much because of it. Needless to say, my confidence is just about down the drain right now because I never percieved myself as such. I've typed him as being an INFP. He would always ramble on about intellectual things and politics and world issues and feelings...things i couldn't care less about basically. I think towards the end we were both just hanging on out of habit but today we both exploded. Very hurtful words were exchanged from both parties.

I'm just a very quiet person by nature that likes to listen instead of interact. All my life i've been told i'm basically socially incompitent and it's reallly starting to eat at me. I DO have feelings, it's just impossible for me to show them. I'm so afraid i'll just continue this cycle of never connecting with anyone and being alone forever. I need a confidence boost, tell me i'm not alone ? : (

[Hugo]

[Slacker]

I'm sorry about the breakup That's always awful.

ISTps have roughly the same chance of "amounting to anything" as anyone else. Don't pay him any mind about that.

I wonder if half the world gets labeled "socially incompetent" and the other half gets told they "continually spew verbal diarrhea" as I was once told during a nasty breakup. Does anyone get the socialization thing just right? It's more likely that people just say things in an attempt to hurt people during breakups.

Anyway, more fish in the sea, lid for every pot, and all that jazz. *hug*

[XoX]

Perhaps you just hang out with the wrong Quadra? But yes I know atleast two ISTps now I think. One in school and one outside school. I can understand they are a bit problematic for someone who needs responsiveness. I know it bugs even me a bit when they sometimes don't respond at all when you talk to them. I don't know how serious your IRL "problems" are but you don't sound too bad here in the net.

[Hugo]

I'm so afraid i'll just continue this cycle of never connecting with anyone and being alone forever.

Have you had a few bad relationships, or is this the only one?

I think you are afraid of being alone perhaps because you have just broken up.

I DO have feelings, it's just impossible for me to show them.

It's not impossible. It's a matter of saying what your feelings are.

[Creepy-bg]

breakups suck. Cheer up, it's not so bad being a misfit...



BTW If you had a bf I think that pretty much proves you have social skills, so your ex-bf was just being a jackass. So your a little quiet... so what? I think quiet girls are ten times more attractive than outgoing ones.

[Hugo]

I think quiet girls are ten times more attractive than outgoing ones.

Agreed. They are irresistable.

[science as magic]

anyone can develop social skills. just observe what people do and do it even if it seems like the stupidest thing in the world. you'll begin to understand why it is done in a few months.

[jessica129]

Thanks guys, I really have no one to talk about this with so all the help is appreciated.

It was basically a bumpy 2 year relationship but in that time, marriage and children were brought up and to hear him say it was all a lie and that he was just using me, well, that's just beyond hard to hear. I'm almost wondering how i can trust again...but isn't that so cliche after a breakup. I dunno, in a way i'm happy things ended but i just wish it were on better terms. I really did care for him.

[science as magic]

Fps seem to have a talent for saying a lot of bullshit at the end of a relationship in order to "hurt" you. much of it is bs.

[Slacker]

In my experience, so do Tjs.

[XoX]

Is it even type related? A lot of people say bs at the end of relationship. And even during fights. Somekind of revenge thingy or something. Hurting the other person makes you feel better. Or something.

[Slacker]

No I doubt it's type related. Everyone gets angry during relationship problems and when relationships end.

[Kim]

Fps seem to have a talent for saying a lot of bullshit at the end of a relationship in order to "hurt" you. much of it is bs.

I have never done that. I always plot elaborate revenge plans, but I am never capable of hurting anyone regardless of how much s/he hurt me. Is that an ENFp thing or am I just messed up?

Jessica,

It was basically a bumpy 2 year relationship but in that time, marriage and children were brought up and to hear him say it was all a lie and that he was just using me, well, that's just beyond hard to hear.

Don't believe it. Someone is hurt and this is a defense mechanism. Really, I am sure of it. I have heard it before.

I'm just a very quiet person by nature that likes to listen instead of interact. All my life i've been told i'm basically socially incompitent and it's reallly starting to eat at me. I DO have feelings, it's just impossible for me to show them. I'm so afraid i'll just continue this cycle of never connecting with anyone and being alone forever.

That sounds exactly like all ISTps I know and at least for my ex, I know it's been a struggle, too. It is a matter of finding someone who will take the time you need to connect and not a deficiency on your part. Just like I need someone who can take erratic and unpredictable behavior and mood swings, which I am sure is off-putting to at least half the population around here. :wink:

Hang in there and make sure to have a few Jessica-appreciation days in the upcoming weeks.

[meatburger]

Yeah i think in breakups the maturity level of the person is more dependent on how much they hurt you than what type they are. Also the level of compatibility in the relationship.

Hey Jessica, look on the bright side. Your free to do what you want, any old time!!! lol. Being single isn't that bad. I have been single most of my grown up life and its pretty cool. I have just been invited to a wedding and the invite says "tim and friend" so im like awww

Your on a Socionics site. If you do believe in socionics, remember that if hes INFp thats a Super-Ego relationship. They are generally not very good so to stick it out for 2 years is commendable. This is an excellent opportunity for you to find someone from your own quadra.

Why dont you try an ENFp? When we know ourselves we find introversion hot. Steaming hot. Their smiles will make something in you stir. If you really cant find an ENFp in your area move to Australia and i will date you :wink:

[UDP]

You can learn from this experience and have a better experience in the future.

....

Besides, I do not see an ISTp INFp relationship working out very well anyways. You might want to be thankful that this ended now, instead of having it drag on for another year or more.

[jewels]

Jessica,

That sounds awful. I would be really hurt by that, even though I doubt it was true. This guy was trying to hurt you in a very cruel way, and it worked. That is not an objective way to realize if you have good social skills or not! I'm sure you do have great social skills, and ISTP social skills I think don't have the same social skills as other types, but that doesn't meant they're not great.

You don't have to act like a different type to be good with people. Everything balances out, and without the listeners, the talkers have no one to listen. I know I really like quiet people because they let me talk. And with very talkative people we're always interrupting eachother. I've decided just not to date extrovert guys anymore because of this. So, just focus on the good parts you think are great about yourself, and try to forget everything he's told you about who you are, because what does he know? nothing.

If he really knew who you were, he could have understood you better and you wouldn't have broken up. So ovibously he doesn't understand you. All of my really bad break-ups always lead to me understanding more about myself, and getting stronger.

There are probably a lot of guys interested in you actually, but because you're an ISTP, you might not have even noticed, or they may be scared to talk to you. Anyway, this guy sounds like a total jerk. So just remember that he is the one that sucks, not you!!

[Park]

*sigh*

I know how you feel, but I should admire you. At least you 've had boyfriends. I 'm not even capable of keeping a friendship... So no, you're not alone.

[schrödinger's cat]

Jessica, I agree with Kim. It could well be that he just wanted to hurt you. It reminds me of my ISTp's INFp sister. She constantly kicks his PoLR, just because she thinks he hasn't got any "feelings" (as she understands them) and it makes her feel helpless and frustrated and unloved, so she strikes out in order to provoke some response from him. "Look at what you're making me do to make you care!"

Or the grapes were too sour after all.

And is it really true that you can't express feelings - or is it that you just can't express feelings in words? I'd say that ISTps don't express their feelings, but they act on them. So you could say that they express their feelings by actions. If a friend needs them, they're there and help beyond the call of duty and whatnot. My ISTp once smashed his fist into a stereo that was malfunctioning. And he has a few songs that he plays when he's frustrated. When he puts on the Eagles' "Get Over It" I know he's been talking to his sister again. Writing usually works better than talking. The difference can be astonishing. My IS(T)p brother has recently sent us an SMS about something, and I was amazed at how friendly, expressive and considerate they sounded. (IRL he's a bit gruff.) My husband is the same, so we spend quite some money on SMS messages. It's worth it. He also finds it helpful if there's some kind of code he can use to express his feelings indirectly. Getting out the sherry glasses means he's feeling companionable and communicative. Or instead of saying "I'm feeling frustrated, exhausted and a little bit pressurized by circumstances in a way that makes me feel trapped, but not by you" he just drops in a chair and says "blorks".

What's the big deal about "expressing feelings" anyway? I'm so sick of people who make an ass of themselves and then it's "...but I was being honest about how I feel!" Like I'm supposed to appreciate them for being a dickhead. I never get that from an ISTp, thank goodness.

Fps seem to have a talent for saying a lot of bullshit at the end of a relationship in order to "hurt" you. much of it is bs.

I have never done that. I always plot elaborate revenge plans, but I am never capable of hurting anyone regardless of how much s/he hurt me. Is that an ENFp thing or am I just messed up?

Oh, totally messed up. Kim, you can't even be cruel?! How sick is that?! (I'm the same. Shake hands.)

[Mea]

---

[FDG]

He was an ass, don't give any weight to his word. I personally am unable to do that (uneless taunted to an extreme) but it seems like some people get kicks from devaluing anybody they've broken up with in order to feel better about themselves.

As far as feelings go - I think that somebody should be content enough when feelings are expressed via actions more than words. I do understand that the optimality is rached by the combination of the two sides, but actions are by far more essential, because words are nothing if not sustained by them.

[meatburger]

Rofl

This thread is probablly too much emotion for jessica lol.

Cats story just proves how socionics can be valuable. If people aren't open minded enough to realise that everyones different, they can attribute others differences in personality as defective.

Another thing to consider is he is also hurt. He said those things because he probally also feels confused and lonley. INFp's have a lot of emotion so he may have said those things in frustration that things didn't work. When i broke up with my INFp Ex a few years ago i ignored her and was quite mean. I now regret and have apologised about hurting her. It was because i was sad and because i was a dick head.

[jessica129]

This was basically an essay on everything that is wrong and defective about me. I mean, I don't care how much self esteem you think you have, when you've dedicated yourself to someone for two years and then get slapped with a page of everything that's bad about yourself from someone you thought loved you, well, frankly i felt like jumping off a cliff haha. I guess i'm getting over it but he was so low as to attack my familly members and my way of life. Calling me pathetic because i couldn't afford school and things of that nature and how everything he told me was a calculated and timed response just to use me.

Sure, I said bad things in the first place but i never resorted to telling him he'd never amount to anything or bashing his family members, that's just low. He's lucky he doesn't live near me or it wouldn't be pretty.

[Joy]

It sounds like he did everything he could think of to hurt you, most likely because you weren't being responsive enough for him about how you felt about the breakup. Keep in mind that while he didn't value your strengths, you also didn't value his. He prolly felt rather emotionally repressed and most certainly felt that you were emotionally unresponsive to him, which undoubtedly whittled away at his self esteem for two years. What I'm trying to say is that he was hurting just as much as you. I'm not saying that you should feel bad for him, just that you should understand that he valued the relationship just as much as you.

I know it's not easy to think of it this way when you're in the situation you're in, but picture being with someone who appreciates and encourages your inherit strengths. The best thing that you could do for that person, the thing that they'll respond best to, is to just be the best *you* that you can be. Also, it sounds like your problem with lack of forward movement in your life could be due to a lack of motivation, which is something that ENFps provide for ISTps in their relationships. Imagine the type of personal growth you could experience in a relationship like that.

[Hugo]

It sounds like he did everything he could think of to hurt you, most likely because you weren't being responsive enough for him about how you felt about the breakup. Keep in mind that while he didn't value your strengths, you also didn't value his. He prolly felt rather emotionally repressed and most certainly felt that you were emotionally unresponsive to him, which undoubtedly whittled away at his self esteem for two years. What I'm trying to say is that he was hurting just as much as you. I'm not saying that you should feel bad for him, just that you should understand that he valued the relationship just as much as you.

Yes, I agree.

[Typeless Wonder]

t sounds like he did everything he could think of to hurt you, most likely because you weren't being responsive enough for him about how you felt about the breakup. Keep in mind that while he didn't value your strengths, you also didn't value his. He prolly felt rather emotionally repressed and most certainly felt that you were emotionally unresponsive to him, which undoubtedly whittled away at his self esteem for two years. What I'm trying to say is that he was hurting just as much as you. I'm not saying that you should feel bad for him, just that you should understand that he valued the relationship just as much as you.

Well, at least Jessica didn't verbally assault him about his personality. If he felt so neglected by her he should have just confronted her in a civil manner about his needs and not waited until the last minute to attack her. You'd think a feeler would be capable of that.

[Joy]

Well, at least Jessica didn't verbally assault him about his personality.

To him, what she didn't do was just as bad as what he did.

If he felt so neglected by her he should have just confronted her in a civil manner about his needs and not waited until the last minute to attack her. You'd think a feeler would be capable of that.

that's not the IxFp style

[FDG]

Calling me pathetic because i couldn't afford school and things of that nature

???

You should definitely try to kill him.

[olduser]

that's not the IxFp style

Is this declaration substansiated by any information other than your personal observations? And if so, please humble me with said information.

[stefana]

.........

[cracka]

he was so low as to attack my familly members and my way of life. Calling me pathetic because i couldn't afford school and things of that nature

that's some messed up shit right there... He must've been suuuuuper pissed off for some reason to pull that type of heavy artillery out in a breakup.

sorry for what you're goin through though, breakups always suck, this one sounds especially crappy. But like meatburger said, move to australia and date him, he seems cool enough and you two could sit around talking about socionics all day...lol j/k...

[Joy]

he was so low as to attack my familly members and my way of life. Calling me pathetic because i couldn't afford school and things of that nature

that's some messed up shit right there... He must've been suuuuuper pissed off for some reason to pull that type of heavy artillery out in a breakup.

It's likely because nothing else he said seemed to have any effect on her... he's prolly still not even sure he was able to make any type of effective impact.

I was pretty good friends with a couple ISTps, and one of them, the quieter of the two, sounds a lot like Jessica. I can see how a IxFp would feel extremely rejected by his lack of responsiveness. If there was a long term relationship in which they felt that kind of rejection for a long time, it is quite logical that they would attack things that they knew mattered to him.

[schrödinger's cat]

Jessica, I've read your post to my I(S)Tp, the one whose sister is INFp. What you wrote reminded me so much of what she sometimes does to him that I thought he might have something useful to say. For what it's worth, here it is.

He says your ex is a basket case and you should forget about him. His behaviour is unacceptable. Even if it's understandable why an INFp would feel rejected by your lack of expressiveness - that doesn't make what he did any less unacceptable. If it leads him to attack you in that kind of way, then that's no one you want to be in a relationship with.

[Joy]

He says your ex is a basket case and you should forget about him. His behaviour is unacceptable. Even if it's understandable why an INFp would feel rejected by your lack of expressiveness - that doesn't make what he did any less unacceptable. If it leads him to attack you in that kind of way, then that's no one you want to be in a relationship with.

I totally agree (I was just offering ideas as to why and trying to reassure her that the relationship did indeed matter to him). She deserves better.

[XoX]

he was so low as to attack my familly members and my way of life. Calling me pathetic because i couldn't afford school and things of that nature

that's some messed up shit right there... He must've been suuuuuper pissed off for some reason to pull that type of heavy artillery out in a breakup.

Nah. Just typical Beta dramatics. Business as usual.

[Joy]

he was so low as to attack my familly members and my way of life. Calling me pathetic because i couldn't afford school and things of that nature

that's some messed up shit right there... He must've been suuuuuper pissed off for some reason to pull that type of heavy artillery out in a breakup.

Nah. Just typical Beta dramatics. Business as usual.

<3

[schrödinger's cat]

...typical Beta dramatics. Business as usual.

That's another valid point... Quadra styles. Could be simply a Delta vs Beta thing, Fe vs Fi. I'm not that expressive either. For some reason I'm always having a super hard time saying "I love you", "you're so important to me", etc. Even if I decide to do it, it's just so awkward. I'd rather imply all of this in my actions, or I'll be half joking, but "I love you"... urk. I'm getting the impressions that it's just me being Delta. We'd cut our arm off to help a friend, and then go "right, let's go have a beer"...

I've got an ENFj friend and it's one of our big differences - she's very expressive, I'm not. We're a bit annoyed at our differences at the moment. She won't write at all for months, and when she does get in touch it's all about her problems. And then: "I miss you, I miss sitting in that coffeeshop chatting to you". It annoys me; I'd much rather have loving actions than loving words. Words are cheap. I guess she's annoyed at how "cool" and "aloof" I am.

My radio station is running a phone-in on people's proposals. People have been falling to their knees, baking glass rings into a cake, hiring planes, you name it. What I got, right, was "maybe we oughta get spliced before we wack out completely."

[FDG]

Cheesy stuff is cheesy no matter which quadra expresses it. Same for stupid, etc.

[Expat]

I mean, I don't care how much self esteem you think you have, when you've dedicated yourself to someone for two years and then get slapped with a page of everything that's bad about yourself from someone you thought loved you, well, frankly i felt like jumping off a cliff haha.

Of course. That's perfectly understandable.

I agree with what others have said about him saying everything he could just to hurt you. Perhaps it wasn't even planned on his part. It might have been a "the grapes were too sour" self-defense thing. But still, it shows a basic lack of character.

[schrödinger's cat]

What I meant was that Beta seems to take words - and any direct expression of an emotion - more seriously. And that it's easier for Betans to do it.

It's not to say that Delta can't gush. (Maybe our "direct emoting" would seem gushy precisely because it's sth we're not really good at and don't normally do.)