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Thread: Ne Fi, reading into people, IEE

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    Default IEE and Reading into People

    How skilled at reading people are IEEs with Ne and Fi? what is it like to feel and intuit the desires, motivations, likes and dislikes, impressions, tragities, and everything that makes up who people are, if thats what youre reading in to? and how has this played out in your life, please give some examples, if that's okay. And anything else you'd like to add that is related to my question, Thanks

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    Default Ne Fi, reading into people, IEE

    Hi IEEs, How skilled at reading people are you with Ne and Fi? What is it like to feel/intuit the desires, motivations, likes and dislikes, impressions, tragedies, and everything that makes up who people are, if that's what youre reading in to? and how has this played out in your life, please give some examples, if that's okay. And anything else you'd like to add that is related to my question, thank you.

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    They know who you are by “reading “ you and they know what is good for you based on that reading
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    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    type is about what is in the head (consciousness) the most. skills are expected to be higher than average if you think about that more than average

    > what is it like to feel and intuit the desires, motivations, likes and dislikes, impressions, tragities, and everything that makes up who people are, if thats what youre reading in to?

    alike baseless fantasing which seems to you to be correct enough
    they better understand people's feelings and motivations, possibilities with them. generally look as nice people

    > and how has this played out in your life, please give some examples, if that's okay

    I do not feel IEEs as annoying and harmful ones. But I see them as surface, sometimes manipulative persons.
    One of IEE said me alike: Socionics can be useful for you, to help to get from people what you want. It's what IEE are much consciously. Though it does not mean they are worse, more as experts in this. While for me Socionics is a way to find good marriage, of self-improvement, to be happier, mb a way to improve a society - IEEs would accepted this too, but this would be later.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    meatburger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VorticalFlow View Post
    Hi IEEs, How skilled at reading people are you with Ne and Fi? What is it like to feel/intuit the desires, motivations, likes and dislikes, impressions, tragedies, and everything that makes up who people are, if that's what youre reading in to? and how has this played out in your life, please give some examples, if that's okay. And anything else you'd like to add that is related to my question, thank you.
    Hmm, i'll try to explain what happens with me as best as i can although i cant really know if people all do this or if i do it a bit more than others.

    I read a description that says that ENFp's can form a mental picture about someone they meet and i think this is definitely true. I think that i am quite good at sensing the whole person almost instantly (clothing / grooming / body language / context). That's not to say that i know anyone's secrets, its a very thin picture of the person but i guess its the beginnings of starting to estimate what that person is like/capable of. I'm sure everyone does this, its possible that a bit more of my brain power / attention is directed towards it. I'll notice particularly if you seem to be confident or unsure of yourself, and i'll also make a pretty quick guesstimate of how intelligent you are as well. Fear/anxiety and also its absence seem to ring in my head like a bell. Even if you show a tiny flash of it i'll probably see it. I'll start to have a good idea of people's own perceived social value pretty quickly.

    Facial expressions to me are a constant stream of possibilities. I'm often wondering if my own facial expressions have led to a flicker of unease or even disgust from a person serving me in a shop of if its some of their own issues. I'm working this out as i'm buying a footlong subway and afterwards when i'm going down the street too.

    I think that i can quite easily pick up on the energy of a person and how they are feeling at that time. I also notice when that has changed in some way from the past. An example of this is yesterday. I just got back from holidays and went to catch up with my ENTp and ENTj friends. When i met my ENTp friend i could sense something was different although i wasn't sure what. He announced he had landed a job and it pays 100+ thousand more $ than his old job. It wasn't really that surprising to me, and i sensed this interesting thing with him watching my interactions with him so i made sure to basically treat him in the same way. He was clearly monitoring me to see how id react / how my opinion of him had changed. Unfortunately, being an ENFp while i'm happy for his success I don't particularly value him any differently. And now i'm thinking about my own motivations. Am i just using this example to seem like i know interesting people as ENFp's often like to do? Why did i just reveal that? Perhaps it was to show how weird my brain is, but perhaps not

    I do see a lot of people as being transparent. What they say might be related to making themselves look good or to win favor for themselves or to gain favor for their opinions etc. It's normally pretty obvious who someone is attracted to etc. I often think attempts by people to achieve these goals are quite rudimentary. Yesterday my guide from holidays sent me a facebook message saying how much of a nice guy i am and how much he missed me. I was wondering what he wanted until he asked for money for earthquake victims in his home village 2 minutes later. These type of manipulations really put me off.

    I think I'm basically never totally myself. I'm not sure if that's anxiety, upbringing or related to being an ENFp but i'm always analyzing myself and others. Certainly doesn't mean i cant relax but i never quite let go. A British girl on my trip after drinking wanted to fuck someone (and i was in the firing line along with another guy) and i was just amazed at how basic she became. There was no concern about what others thought, clearly no higher functions going on at all. I know that alcohol does this but not to everyone. Id have to have 20 beers to get to that level. I marveled at it while actually being very scared for her about how vulnerable she was. I predicted she would do something she might regret (she did) and i made sure it wasn't with me lol.

    I have an ISTp-Te guy who owes me some money for a trip he promised and cancelled. He cant afford to pay me back and has really screwed me around. I'm pretending to be totally naive, kind and innocent towards him while actually my ISFj mother and myself are laughing at the web of lies he has created. I'm much more likely to get my money back by pretending i'm not very bright and i'm buying his bullshit. But if he reneges on paying me he will realise that i pretty much have his life over a barrel and could ruin it if i want to. I won't have to do it fortunately as the threat of legal action will be enough to make him pay if needed. One thing i've noticed is people assume because i'm kind that i was born yesterday.

    Anyway, that was a bit of a rant. What i would say is that i certainly don't feel like a detective putting pieces together all the time (although it does happen occasionally). I worked out an ENFp and an ISTp slept together on the trip (and the ENFp wasn't happy about it) when probably no one else did. Normally i just notice the small little ditches in emotion, people getting embarrassed, sad, concerned they aren't taken seriously etc. I suspect that i do notice small parts of peoples psych that other people don't notice, but often its probably fairly benign or unuseful information. Where it is useful is i'm able to process peoples reactions on the fly very quickly so i'll often expertly divert a conversation or change my behavior when i realize i've started to go in the wrong direction.

    Hope that helped lol.
    Last edited by meatburger; 03-16-2019 at 01:42 AM.
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    Hello, like mentioned, I'm often in analyze mode about myself and people, I tried once sharing my thoughts about those analysis to someone, they were kind of shocked and thought I was imagining traits about that person. If I share my observations, people would think I'm judging them and start being careful around me (it's actually judging, but it doesn't mean I don't like them), it ruins the good chemistry we have, so I refer from sharing them, but they're always in my mind. I simply go deeply in anything I observe (in relation to people usually).

    I have a motto in my life: What people show is often what they lack and what they don't show is often who they are !
    This might not be true 100% but majority of us are not self aware so it kind of applies...

    How do I read into people? I think I can form that impression based on many things, how they behave, their eyes movements, when they are silent, when they are not, the way they talk... And by that I can have this vague idea about who the person is. If I compare it to my SEE friend, she observes people too but doesn't go deeply, she often tell me to stop reading too much into people, like I can notice just from facial expressions what person A is going through, sometimes because I went through same thing, sometimes because I have seen same expression in person B who had this particular problem, so I conclude person A has same problem.

    I also know what a person is capable of easily, and can spot if they're actually not really talented and trying to show off. For example, in one of my classes, there was this guy who is very smart in Math, but no one noticed him, they were busy observing those who participated and showering them with compliments, when he tried to participate not many paid attention to him for some reason. There was also this girl that we see from time to time, my friends often tell me that she's very depressed, I tell them she may be sad but surely not depressed. And they're baffled. My reasoning for that is that depressed people often can't show they're depressed (even if they want to), as signs of depression are hard to spot and I concluded that because I went through it once.

    There was one funny situation I was in. An LSI or LSE friend (don't know him well) who once sat next to me in a lecture and started talking, then out of nowhere I asked him if something bad happened to him. He didn't reply and went silence. Later that day, my ESI friend came telling me she had a problem with the LSI/LSE (he loved her but she didn't really like him). Next day, he sent me a message telling me to stop reading about psycholgy. I felt that he was kinda scared lol.

    But I noticed that I'm very bad at knowing what people are after when they talk to me. I'm always thinking and analysing their personality and don't think about how they're after some kind of benefit. I feel sometimes I go too deep that I forget the most obvious thing. I think I'm getting better at it though thanks to my ESI friend who knows immediately if people are after something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daisy View Post
    they were kind of shocked and thought I was imagining traits about that person.
    I've had this happen to me as well. I don't really like talking about my observations to others because they will either become uncomfortable or suggest i'm just imagining things. I do think that i am prone to jumping to the wrong conclusion at times. Tonight i noticed that an ILI friend was very tired and a little unhappy. I asked how his wife was and there might have been a little flinch (or maybe not). Perhaps trouble at home? Wife wants a divorce? They had a fight? Perhaps she is sick? Or perhaps he didn't sleep well and is stressed from work. I really have no idea.

    One time i told my LSE friend about how i hadn't been lucky with a girl for a few years. I caught this smile from him (very quick) that i didn't forget. Smiles come in all shapes and sizes. I believe that i was seeing a part of him that was happy to hear about my misfortune. It can be uplifting to hear how crappy another person's life is. I've never told anyone and i'm sure he or anyone i told would suggest that it was probably just an awkward smile and that i misread the situation. I don't think i did though. That being said, it really wasn't a big deal to me. We all have parts of us that are spiteful, competitive, cruel, hateful etc and to me it wouldn't have meant that he is a bad person at all. Also, being happy when someone else is sad is a sign to me that a person may not be well rounded.

    The reason i know about the dark parts of other people is i have a lot of insight into those parts of myself. I see all the foibles and problems with my own cognition and i know for certain that pretty much every other human has similar failings. I'm quite attuned to my own behaviours. For example my ESE boss absolutely rubs me the wrong way. The way she interacts with me irritates me like you wouldn't believe. A few times she has made me furious and i'll start to think things like "I should find a way to really ruin her and get her fired". Then i pretty much immediately think "I'm angry because she embarrassed or didn't acknowledge me or whatever. I probably a) couldn't get her fired and b) even if i could, i wouldn't do that". Or i'll tell myself "I don't even like that bloody girl" then 5 minutes later think "well clearly you do a least a little or you wouldn't be wasting time trying to convince yourself you don't". So i cant even trick myself about my desires either because i see through my own bullshit lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daisy View Post
    I feel sometimes I go too deep that I forget the most obvious thing.
    I do also sometimes miss important facets of a persons personality. I might be focusing on something unimportant and miss what is right under my nose. One thing i need to do in my life from now on is to follow my instincts. Almost always when people disappoint me there were obvious hints that ignored suggesting something was wrong. I've noticed that my LIE friend is in some ways more perceptive than i am. He seems very able to point to flaws in peoples character that i gloss over because i try to see the best in people.
    Last edited by meatburger; 03-17-2019 at 12:40 AM.
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    Naturally everyone tries to read people, and frankly I don’t know how much of that is unique to NeFi. For me, it’s an active process of which I’m always hyperaware (and sometimes would like to shut off). When I meet someone, I create a mental schema of him or her based on various characteristics I notice, typically based on past empirical data, allowing me to calibrate how I communicate. This may change somewhat as I learn more, but the gestalt or silhouette generally remains consistent with my original impression.

    Observations (inputs, we could say) mirror what we know about psychology— i.e. in the moment I take snapshots of a person’s body type, facial expressions, body language, gaze, speech, and clothing/accessories, and intermingle that with I already know, such as how they think, their general preferences, and other past observations I have of them.

    In more practical terms, meatburger and Daisy have already provided various day to day examples. A way it might show up for me is in providing career advice. One’s identity permeates through everything; using this concept I triangulate or synthesize what type of role I think would suit a person best. A friend of mine is great at cooking, gardening, and is highly efficient at anything that might involve physical work. Her best way of learning has always been kinesthetic. Her favorite books growing up were generally detective stories. I recommended she work in forensics, and she loves the job. Somehow it never occurred to her to think about it in that manner.

    Hopefully that provides another window into how an IEE might think.
    Last edited by Default; 03-17-2019 at 06:52 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Default View Post
    Naturally everyone tries to read people, and frankly I don’t know how much of that is unique to NeFi.
    I agree with everything you said and asked the same question. Humans are social animals and we are all wired to pay attention to emotional cues. Some people probably find it laughable that i think it is a skill to 'tell if someone is sad'. Pretty much everyone can tell if someone is sad. That being said for socionics to have any value types must be objectively better at some skills than others. I really wasn't sure if some of what i was talking about was something most feelers in general do.

    What i do know is that you can objectively recognize the skills of other types. When i hang out with logical types its quite obvious to me how their mind is different and in some ways superior to my own. So I do think that its likely that ENFps - and probably a host of other feeling types process emotion quicker, can detect smaller changes in emotion, can probably more accurately recognize the emotion for what it is etc. My experience seems to suggest this as well. I find it a lot harder to pinpoint where intuition comes into play though. Like you said, when i'm looking at someone i couldn't turn it off. I think part of the problem is its so fundamental to how we think and the information is typically fairly useless in isolation that its hard to describe. All the little bits and pieces that are added to a person might at some point lead to some type of useful revelation or they may not. I guess we form a mental model of the person that can be useful to think about.
    ENFp (Unsure of Subtype)

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    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
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    I dont read people. Never have. I think its very much linked to type. Also subtype matters, harmonizers tend to read people more regardless of main type.
    Last edited by Tallmo; 03-17-2019 at 05:29 PM.

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    Jesus is the cruel sausage consentingadult's Avatar
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    Others have already more or less implicitly suggested that their Fi observations tie in with their Ne, and as such, such observations can have quite a diverse range of responses, from extremely positive to extremely negative. Most things are pretty manageable, but there are some things that sometimes drive me crazy, and paradoxically these are the most positive observations. E.g. when I make up from a woman's body language and emotional expressions (often very tiny clues) that she likes me beyond the platonic, I get extremely frustrated because I can't act on that info (because I'm already in a relationship). It feels like having to cut off a part of myself, not being able to give what I have to give to someone who seems to be in need of it.

    But sometimes it can be very rewarding. Like now, my 91 year old grandmother is in hospital after because she was struck by a severe case of influenza. Yesterday she was doing really badly, and the frustrating part is we can do nothing practical to help her. The only thing we can do is to show her our affection. My aunt is convinced she's better off when she passes away, my grandmother has on occasion stated that she wants to die, but I do not believe that. I sense that when she has her children and grandchildren around her, she actually enjoys it, that is what she really wants, so that is what I focus on: just being with her, holding her hand in silence, telling her that I love her. So yesterday I actually got her to smile a little bit. And though she can hardly speak, she surprised us yesterday when I left and said as loud as she could with her weak voice "Luv you!" (she always says that in English, not in Dutch). That was priceless!
    The future of Socionics:
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    I dont read people. Never have. I think its very much linked to type. Also subtype matters, harmonuzers tend to tead people more regardless of main type.
    Tallmo, it is a strange coincidence that you mentioned that you don't read people. The SEI-Fe that I work with seems to be the person who is most resistant to "seeing" the personality types around her. I've pointed them out, given her a cheat sheet on Socionics, and she does seem to observe that she gets along with ILE's best and so on down the line, but she can't seem to "see" the parts of people which give away their personalities.
    She asked me on Friday in the hallway which were the types of the three recent hires. I told her, "ILI, LIE, and" and at that moment the new SEI-Si walked by and the SEI-Fe kind of cringed, and when the SEI-Si was past us, I resumed "and of course, Fxxxxe, who is the same type as you, just different sub-type", and the SEI-Fe looked at me in shock, amazement, and dismay.

    I will admit, I think that SEI-Si's and SEI-Fe's are so different as to almost be separate types, but couldn't she see the SEI-Si's good taste in dress, or how nice she is, or how much she seeks harmony?

    On the other hand, I've watched the SEI-Fe at office parties, where she has assumed the role of Master of Ceremonies along with the ILE, and she treats everyone the same, sort of the way professional game show hosts do on television. I guess that the inability to read people would contribute to the sense of keeping things light and moving right along without accusing someone of being a full-blown asshole.

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    I do tend to be able to "read" people better if they share more functions with me. I'm not sure if this is because I have Fi and Ni or not. But I can't read everyone.

    The afore-mentioned SEI-Si came into my office on Thursday with a router or something and a screwdriver (she does IT and software, but I have since found that she's better at human relations) and stood by the wall where the internet connection enters the room. I smiled at her and went back to work. She just stood there. I said, "Good Morning." She said, "I'm waiting for approval".
    I thought, Uh, she's a new hire. This is unusual, but maybe she's like my LII sister in her alienation from work and needs reassurance. I don't know her that well, but I'm sure she's doing her job just fine. What can I say? and replied, "I'm glad you're upgrading the internet around here. The last person here seemed to ignore it."
    She said, "I'm waiting for approval to disconnect your internet", and I said, "Fine, go ahead. I'm not using it right now." and I reflected on the many opportunities for miscommunication in the world.

    In the future, I'll just assume that strong Fe-users don't have any internal Fi dialog. That might be best for me from an operational standpoint.

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    I considered myself excellent at determining what people are physically after as objectives but terrible at determining their motivational forces and sensitivities. IEEs seem to be the opposite where they see personal motivation but can be blind to their ultimate objectives. EIIs seem to be aware of both aspects while ILEs seem blind to both.

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Fi creative types seem the best at understanding others' motivations and then using it to either get what they want (if they're out for self-gain) or help the other person (if they're more altruistic). IEEs tend to be more altruistic than SEEs. By "motivations" what I mean is that they're able to "tune into" the person's emotional state, understanding how they feel, what has led them to feel the way that they do and maybe how they will act based on it. IEEs are generally better at the latter two points because of superior Ne and Ni (not entirely sure which is more important in this case) in comparison to SEEs. In contrast, SEEs seem to be much better at maneuvering through a complex system based on this emotional understanding. For example, in a corporate environment they know exactly what to do or who to talk to to get a promotion while still being on fair grounds with their coworkers. The classic smiling politician.

    Please note that these are just impressions I get from watching videos of examples. I therefore don't have any substantiating sources. Do with this what you will.
    ----- FarDraft, 2019 | 5w6 538 sp/sx

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    Ne/Fi is skilled at reading people when it comes to picking up cues as to how they (the IEE) are being reflected in the eyes of the others. That's the core processor of the Ne/Fi cognition...

    This was written by an IEE...I don't remember the person's name, hardly posted here but left behind this NeFi gem:

    “We can’t always view our own selves unless our behaviour is reflected back at us by someone else. Even as a viewer. Plus, there has to be conscious awareness, which is a quality not everyone Possess. Plus desire to adjust after seeing the reflected self which even fewer pocsses.”

    I'd only point out that this individual wrongly believed his cognition applied to all of us and used the noun "WE" instead of I. if you asked another socionics type like Ti/Se, Se/Ti or Te/Ni etc to figure out how they are being reflected in the eyes of other the speed at which they could process that information would be considerably slower, like a 2gb RAM compared to the IEE's 24 gb RAM...it's just not something their cognition is designed for. Fi/Ne would have the second fastest RAM when it comes to picking up cues as to how they are being reflected in the eyes of others, but still falling short of IEE's core processor in terms of overall performance (speed, power, depth).
    Last edited by Kill4Me; 03-18-2019 at 07:42 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kill4Me View Post
    Ne/Fi is skilled at reading people when it comes to picking up cues as to how they (the IEE) are being reflected in the eyes of the others. That's the core processor of the Ne/Fi cognition...

    This was written by an IEE...I don't remember the person's name, hardly posted here but left behind this NeFi gem:

    “We can’t always view our own selves unless our behaviour is reflected back at us by someone else. Even as a viewer. Plus, there has to be conscious awareness, which is a quality not everyone Possess. Plus desire to adjust after seeing the reflected self which even fewer pocsses.”

    I'd only point out that this individual wrongly believed his cognition applied to all of us and used the noun "WE" instead of I. if you asked another socionics type like Ti/Se, Se/Ti or Te/Ni etc to figure out how they are being reflected in the eyes of other the speed at which they could process that information would be considerably slower, like a 2gb RAM compared to the IEE's 24 gb RAM...it's just not something their cognition is designed for. Fi/Ne would have the second fastest RAM when it comes to picking up cues as to how they are being reflected in the eyes of others, but still falling short of IEE's core processor in terms of overall performance (speed, power, depth).
    What do you mean when you say reflected in the eyes of others?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Tallmo, it is a strange coincidence that you mentioned that you don't read people. The SEI-Fe that I work with seems to be the person who is most resistant to "seeing" the personality types around her. I've pointed them out, given her a cheat sheet on Socionics, and she does seem to observe that she gets along with ILE's best and so on down the line, but she can't seem to "see" the parts of people which give away their personalities.
    She asked me on Friday in the hallway which were the types of the three recent hires. I told her, "ILI, LIE, and" and at that moment the new SEI-Si walked by and the SEI-Fe kind of cringed, and when the SEI-Si was past us, I resumed "and of course, Fxxxxe, who is the same type as you, just different sub-type", and the SEI-Fe looked at me in shock, amazement, and dismay.

    I will admit, I think that SEI-Si's and SEI-Fe's are so different as to almost be separate types, but couldn't she see the SEI-Si's good taste in dress, or how nice she is, or how much she seeks harmony?

    On the other hand, I've watched the SEI-Fe at office parties, where she has assumed the role of Master of Ceremonies along with the ILE, and she treats everyone the same, sort of the way professional game show hosts do on television. I guess that the inability to read people would contribute to the sense of keeping things light and moving right along without accusing someone of being a full-blown asshole.
    Felice.

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    This is how I experience reading people.

    HdFOjQf.jpg
    Final analysis comes from seeing their circumstances and guessing what most likely caused the emotion. It's mostly a question of "If I were in their shoes what would cause me to feel the way they feel?"

    maybe the higher the dimension also lends itself to understanding many nuances of emotion also, e.g. different kinds of sadness, grief, hurt, sorrow.

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    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post
    This is how I experience reading people.

    HdFOjQf.jpg
    Final analysis comes from seeing their circumstances and guessing what most likely caused the emotion. It's mostly a question of "If I were in their shoes what would cause me to feel the way they feel?"

    maybe the higher the dimension also lends itself to understanding many nuances of emotion also, e.g. different kinds of sadness, grief, hurt, sorrow.
    Can I see pics of your amygdala, front and side views?

    How to Win Friends: Have a Big Amygdala?

    Feeling emotional: the amygdala links emotional perception and experience
    Last edited by Aylen; Yesterday at 02:32 PM. Reason: fixed link

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     




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    a two horned unicorn renegade Troll Nr 007's Avatar
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    I usually map out peoples' reactions to certain informational stimuli. Someone described me of having very scientific perception on people. A databank of cause and effect gets evaluated all the time. Very Fi PoLR as each case lives in its own test tube without any relations. I don't see any value in motives and such. It is what makes you interested and you should do it and no one should intervene – end of story.
    Last edited by Troll Nr 007; Yesterday at 02:41 PM.
    Sol mb F type due to his inability to think alternatives.


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    The see clues in everything.

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