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Thread: IEIs/INFps running from their own shadow

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    Default IEIs/INFps running from their own shadow

    what is it with INFP guys?

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    I'll expand.

    It seems like they run from their own shadow. How is it that these people mate??????

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    I think you only met the F ones not the N ones heh. They can be pretty aggressive in short bursts (like INTps). I wonder how male INFjs do it as they have all the problems INTjs have with the "feminine" perceptions on top of that.

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    Thanks for the input. I'm not putting them (INFP men) down, but he always doubts himself. He asked me what I thought of him, but before I answered I asked him if he felt that I was sincere with my words and actions? He said yes. So I told him what I thought of him and it was all good, no criticism or "you can do better". I've told him constantly that I accept him for who he is.
    He replied that he thought I was silly for thinking he was good looking. I told him that it didnt worry me, and that I felt like I was watching two of him in a tube fighting over whether to believe me or not.
    Go figure.

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    One of my best friends is INFp. We have been friends since middle school. A couple of weeks ago i was drunk and talking socionics with him and an ISTj. The ISTj, of course, couldn't handle the conversation because it just didn't fit and was too out there for him. My INFp friend, however, took the hidden agenda idea very personally, he goes "you're saying i don't understand things! you're saying i don't understand" and i felt bad, because it really wasn't the intention of me to insult him. He has enough troubles as it is in life with girls and so forth(i agree with the shadow thing) having an ISTj in our 'group' doesn't help matters much, either. I suffer socially because the ISTj see's everyone as a potential threat and lives in a selfish and destructive world, whereas the INFp never speaks up and seems to avoid pushiness as much as possible. it is a difficult friendship, only satisfying in the sense that he is the most creatively humorous person that i have ever met. he has so many dreams, but he just can't break through the confidence issues.

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    man, you have been waiting to get me on something Now what you are saying isn't fully true. INFp's have an unconscious Ti, they think Te. Te is attached to the outer world. They have trouble understanding the inner workings of things. This is true. The ENTp has trouble knowing how much Fe is being given.to them. Obviously they(INFp) may "understand" but they are, deep down, never aware, it is unconscious. Now we can get in a muddled argument, but i don't think my understanding is quite vague at all.

    I obviously elaborated more with him on it, and i let my words slip a little (i was drunk). Transigent, you can't set me straight, im straight as an arrow and im headed towards the bull's-eye.

    I use the "strong" and "weak" as adapted from the information metabolism model displayed on tommylove's site. It seems to work. Obviously we are all working on this, but trying to insult me is pretty ridiculous, to be honest. Your analysis is also quite unstructured and doesn't really prove a point at all. Your little aphorisms mean nothing to me.

    and when did i say that i said he didn't understand things? He said that, i didn't.



    you're cool, you're cool.

    I want to add, I respect the way you see this. I don't want to insult you. I know that there is great power in . I often talk socionics with an ENFp and i am fascinated by their ability to grasp the relationship aspect of it, it is impressive and helpful. So i do often gain from the posts you write. But I will say, i speak structurally when i post. It may not seem it if you don't manage the knowledge as "strongly", but what i say has an order to it. It is a consistent order as well, which i am continually developing. I don't want to argue with you, because you are an intelligent person, but i am definitely working in a framework. I made a harmless and brief anecdotal post and i don't see why you had to go into attack mode on my . uncalled for and ridiculous.

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    I don't mean to be picky,although it will certainly SEEM that way, but an arrow isn't completely straight; it has two angles.


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    Blah Blah Blah.

    So what's his (INFP) problem??? First off, I don't understand how he ever scored. From what I know, his past girlfriends were all witches and one made him take an IQ test...an IQ TEST!!! Can you imagine?? I'm the nicest thing (from my point of view) that's come along and I just dont understand what the hold up is.

    But he's hot. He's a total geek (I love geeks) and he's hot. He's also a leo. He's got this shy smile and this man could walk on my back with nails coming out of his shoes and I'd say...more please. I'm just kidding. But seriously, I think the sun shines on him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MysticSonic
    I don't mean to be picky,although it will certainly SEEM that way, but an arrow isn't completely straight; it has two angles.

    lol, it was just a common figure of speech.

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    The collective of annoying detail-whores don't care.

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    Edited for gayness.

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    LOL, oh transigent. Well just so long as you don't hate me, because i sort of thought that and it made me angry.

    Now I know there is this sketchiness about what is unconscious, vital, subconscious, etc...

    I also understand where alot of this might not be your bag. Alot of times it isn't really my bag, either. I try to speak in terms of the information given. Now we will need more info on how the functions interact, but I'm pretty sure that what is conscious somehow makes its inverted version "un/subconscious" or "vital". This appears to be "correction" which is stated on the description of the model A on lytov's site. There is also the info on Admin's site, im not sure where it was drawn. This talks of Active will, authority, phobia and neuroses. Apparently the Active will consists of the 1st and 5th, and it follows that pattern through to neuroses. Why, structurally this is, i can't quite explain yet, but i am trying, and getting close to a "structural" explanation. Basically, I am trying to figure out as exactly as possible, what the hell is going on and how these ideas came to be. The translations can often be to the point of incomprehensibility. I just want to come to the point of "aha! this is what they were talking about!" but this is difficult to do because things change form through translation and evolution.

    Yeah, i agree about all of the fuzziness about intelligence and how it is defined and so forth. I think that alot of this is because there are alot of inconsistencies in wording and definitions. I agree with you in many ways in your definitions of what it exactly is to understand. By understanding i am thinking in terms of "Strong Ti=understanding". I know that understanding has many different definitions, and i can see where a disagreement can surface. But the definition of "understanding" i drew from Ganin's site, and i think that the idea of "hidden agenda" might be his own idea which he coined the word to best describe the problems of weak conscious producing Te. According to lytov's site, the relationship between identical and mirrors is "direct understanding". If you are ENFp then our relationship is direct understanding with inhibition. So, all types can be seen as understanding types, so long as you make clear your definitions.

    So we just mis-"understood" one another :wink:
    So yeah, this is just a silly argument that stole the thread, but it's funny and i'm smiling right now.

    But we are probably looking for different things. I really think that this is an ENFp and ENTp thing. Could be wrong, you're right, i never met you.

    But your ideas are always appreciated by me. I'm glad we don't hate one another.

    But hey, no hard feelings. It was actually fun arguing with you.

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    But we are probably looking for different things. I really think that this is an ENFp and ENTp thing.
    Oh, don't tell me you changed your type again, Transigent!
    Binary or dichotomous systems, although regulated by a principle, are among the most artificial arrangements that have ever been invented. -- William Swainson, A Treatise on the Geography and Classification of Animals (1835)

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    Default INFP hidden agenda

    The Infp hidden agenda- my own hidden agenda, from my point of view, seems misinterprited. It is not that I don't understand things. I can bluntly state that i do not have a weak understanding, infact, I think I generally have a much better understanding of the world around me then most people(though I can be very....aloof). What I see in the INFP hidden agenda is that its simply a craving for more. It's not that I dont have understanding already, but I NEVER feel like I understand enough. It's like I'm always seeking, always asking why, constantly. I can't get a break. I continually ask myslef why this, why that, all in an effort to understand. Even when I understand things I feel like I dont understand enough. Theres so much that I DONT understand, and it leads me on a constant search for more. I can't stop. That craving and that question of WHY runs through everything I do. THAT is why it is the hidden agenda. It truely makes perfect sence, and, in a way sort of leads my life. So, now I'm left wondering... do any other types want to put their input in on their own agenda and maybe try to help the rest of us out a bit?

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    HarryBottom,

    So...what you're saying is if I like this guy, and he likes me, he wants further confirmation? Just asking.

    You know, you INFP guys are hot!

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    HarryBottom, I think you are right on this. I do also think that the hidden agenda just doesn't get enough of attention, when it gets one. I'm bad at explaining things in logicall structure and I rather have just observations, which I have collected over the time and I have noticed that hidden agenda types need this when people are praising how logical and understanding they are. in my oppinnion is made from what I have read with my poor English and is an aspect of reality of bonds between the objects, be it in space or in abstract description. INFP, I think, doesn't realize them not so much and because it is hidden agenda, stories about what you can see in the aspect of make you feel good. I think that likeing is somehow related to hidden agenda and there are 8 types of likeing dependent on the type and knowing you are liked by INFP is, when someone is explaining something logically to it. And surely they need to know how much you like them and so you can manipulate with INFPs by telling how greatly they know complex things. The 3rd block is the block of inner child and let this child be happy.

    Hope my post made any sence.
    Semiotical process

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    Right. I don't think IxFPs have difficulty understanding things... but ExFPs do.

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    HarryBottom,

    So...what you're saying is if I like this guy, and he likes me, he wants further confirmation? Just asking.

    You know, you INFP guys are hot!
    Yah, totally. He'll definately want further conformation that you like him. Definately. That would be one of the best things you could do for him, because he'll constantly be wondering.

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    LOL...are you sure about that?

    I heard that Oprah tested as an ExFP.

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    Right. I don't think IxFPs have difficulty understanding things... but ExFPs do.
    I dont think ENFP's really have a problem understanding things. From my experience, they seem to be extremely smart(although they may come off differently) and good at just about everything.

    Now, ESFJ's and ESFP's, on the other hand, they just DONT GET IT. ESPECIALLY ESFJ's. You can say something so clear and to their face and they'll still respond with "huh?" or "I don't get it." It's funny how see through and open-book like they are with their facial expressions. You can see the bewilderment on their face. ESFP's aren't quite so bad... and I like them, so no offence in their case. They don't have an insanely strong inclanaion towards constant lying/denial patterns (that they think they pull off so well), that they somehow justify within their own mind, like ESFJ's.

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    I heard that Oprah tested as an ExFP.
    She's definately gotta be an ENFP, because there's no way she's an ESFP. That would make sence because ENFP's tend to like to help people, and are gererally pretty smart. ESFP's would rather not think about it...... ESFP's would rather not think, lol. :wink:

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    Default Re: INFP hidden agenda

    Quote Originally Posted by HarryBottom
    The Infp hidden agenda-...
    There seems to be a correlation between HB's take on the INFp hidden agenda and what wrote in this thread: oldforumlinkviewtopic.php?t=495
    Quote Originally Posted by In a different thread,
    It seems like there is no end. Do INFPs stop asking themselfs "Who am I" ever? After finding socionics it stopped for a couple of months and these days it seems like I'm starting to bang my head with this stupid question again regardless of the fact that I am full of facts and analysis for myself. Or better find some new stuff with which I can identify myself? lol
    Trying to understand himself better?
    TiNe, LII, INTj, etc.
    "I feel like I should be making a sarcastic comment right now, but you're just so cute!" - Shego, Kim Possible

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    She's definately gotta be an ENFP, because there's no way she's an ESFP. That would make sence because ENFP's tend to like to help people, and are gererally pretty smart. ESFP's would rather not think about it...... ESFP's would rather not think, lol.
    Actually, she tested as ESFP.

    Some sites listed her as ENFP or ENFJ. I wonder if she didn't agree with that and decided to take the test. But yeah with all of the stereotypes I've heard about ESFP's, it is strange to see her as one...

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    Actually, she tested as ESFP.

    Some sites listed her as ENFP or ENFJ. I wonder if she didn't agree with that and decided to take the test. But yeah with all of the stereotypes I've heard about ESFP's, it is strange to see her as one...
    I'm pretty sure she is an ENFP.

    As for my comment about ExFPs not understanding things, I was trying to make a distintion between them and IxFPs. Some people think that i an IxFP has a hidden agenda of "to understand" (Ti) then that means their weak point in understanding things. That is not the case. An IxFP weak point is Te, not Ti. An ExFP's weak point is Ti (understanding).

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    with all of the stereotypes I've heard about ESFP's, it is strange to see her as one...
    Yah, thats extremely odd. The only reason I was so sure is that my brother is an ESFP, and I could never see him in those shoes.

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    I guess it could be a subtype thing. The ethical and sensory subtypes are pretty different....if she is ESFP she is the sensory subtype.

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    As for my comment about ExFPs not understanding things, I was trying to make a distintion between them and IxFPs. Some people think that i an IxFP has a hidden agenda of "to understand" (Ti) then that means their weak point in understanding things. That is not the case. An IxFP weak point is Te, not Ti. An ExFP's weak point is Ti (understanding).
    I gotcha, were on the same wavelength.

    I guess it could be a subtype thing. The ethical and sensory subtypes are pretty different....if she is ESFP she is the sensory subtype.
    That would explain it.


    In a different thread, wrote:
    It seems like there is no end. Do INFPs stop asking themselfs "Who am I" ever? After finding socionics it stopped for a couple of months and these days it seems like I'm starting to bang my head with this stupid question again regardless of the fact that I am full of facts and analysis for myself. Or better find some new stuff with which I can identify myself? lol

    Trying to understand himself better?
    I guess that would go along perfectly. It is true that I never stop searching to find out more about myself. Understanding yourself is part of understanding as a whole. Thats why I'm so obsessed with all this personality stuff I guess, It brings me closer in my search for understanding. :wink:

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    Isn't Oprah an ENFP with an ethical subtype?

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    No. Marilyn Monroe, Britney Spears, and Cameron Diaz are good examples of ENFP ethical subtype. And all of the ENFP's that I know have more of a girly girl and feminine qualityabout them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymous
    No. Marilyn Monroe, Britney Spears, and Cameron Diaz are good examples of ENFP ethical subtype. And all of the ENFP's that I know have more of a girly girl and feminine qualityabout them.
    I think Marilyn Monroe is an ISFP-ethical and Britney Spears is an ESFP-ethical. You might be right about Cameron Diaz.

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    Britney Spears is an ESFP-ethical
    http://www.typelogic.com/isfp.html .....says Brittany Spears is an ISFP

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    Marilyn didn't have the body language and "down to earth" friendly personality of an ISFP. ENFP are sociable but perky and come off as being flirty (even the more introverted ones)...

    My mom is ISFP ethical subtype (who are typically meso-endos) and I know other ISFP's. And I've noticed that they have a certain signature smile. It's softer and warmer than the ENFP full faced and "flirty" smiles. Well, anyways it's hard to explain but after observing the different types it's easy to see the different mannerisms and "vibes" of the types/subtypes.

    And Sandra Bullock is a good example of an ESFP ethical subtype.

  33. #33
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    True those are the intuite subtypes. THe ones that I know are kind/thoughtful and love to give advice.

    THe ethical subtypes are outgoing but aren't necessarily "flirty", they just come across that way. They are generally sweet and sociable.

  34. #34
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    Thanks Harry Bottom.

    I think INFP is very difficult to understand. I constantly hear from my INXX friends that they think they're more complex and prone to feeling moreso than E types. Be that as it may, I found INXX's are lousy communicators.

    I decided to just let him be. I'm here if he wants to talk to me, but I'm not going to be the chaser. I can only tell someone how I feel but after that I'm like, if you dont believe me then your the one with the problem.

    Its such a shame becuase he's a beautiful person and as I said before...he's hot.

  35. #35
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    and hey, who cares about britney spears? start your own friggin discussion.

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    Well as an INFP/INTP guy let me just say that we can be incredibly shy and unsure of ourselves. We're intuitive, so that sets us apart from the majority of the population and makes it difficult to relate to and interact with people. Next we're introverted which only compounds the problem. Finally, as F guys we live in a society that conditions us to want to be chest-beating T's, and if we're not there must be something wrong with us. That just alienates us further.

    Lets just say that my childhood was a bit awkward. I never really had any close friends, and never dated any girls. I could barely figure out my own male-species and myself, so I figured women and me would be a lost cause.

    But then I got to college and all that changed. I met an ESTJ girl who accepted me as I was, believed in me, encouraged me, and today she's my wife. It's funny though, before we started dating she said she was TOTALLY hitting on me and flirting, but I was just so dumb when it came to women and "signals" that I never even realized it. My roommate at the time was friends with her, and she told him that she really liked me and that if I asked her out she'd say yes. So I did. The rest is history.

    So my advice to the thread starter, if you like this guy, ask HIM out, or ask him to ask you out flat out. Yes, a bit unconventional, but you say you really like him and he's a very rare and unconventional guy. Just take a little initiative and then let him pick things up from there.


    Steve

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    I think also INFPs are the type most inclined to be unsure. I know some ISFPs , they sometimes also have problems with there confidence, but not as much as INFPs often have, because there provides them with a much better connection to the 'real' world.
    For me I can say I know this Situation from my youth when a girl is flirting with me and about a week later I start thinking "Hey, has this girl really flirted with ME?? Am I REALLY sure she meant ME? Damn!"
    Today this realization goes much faster but can also take up to an hour or longer. And I also like it when girls start the Interaction with me. Its nothing more than a clichee that the man should start everything, Ihope for all INFP guys this is going to break up in the future :wink:

  38. #38
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    "So my advice to the thread starter, if you like this guy, ask HIM out, or ask him to ask you out flat out. Yes, a bit unconventional, but you say you really like him and he's a very rare and unconventional guy. Just take a little initiative and then let him pick things up from there"


    Thank you so much for sharing it from your point of view, this is exactly what I was looking for. Just an insight as to how some INFP's view things. I've decided to be patient after realizing I'm actually very busy and shouldn't be in a hurry to develop anything just yet.

    And I'm totally glad that your wife is an E, Im an E and that gives me hope.

    THanks again!!!!

  39. #39
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    "And I also like it when girls start the Interaction with me. Its nothing more than a clichee" that the man should start everything, Ihope for all INFP guys this is going to break up in the future"

    The voices of wisdom,

    Thank you!!!

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    Transigent, it is those blocks of wisdom that really make me glad to know you are alive.

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