ESFj Ni PoLR

[Lord Pixel]

How does it show up?

And is this an example of it?

My ESE friend keeps making past mistakes when it comes to relationships. He can't seem to see that he is walking right into similar problems he had before, somehow he cannot even see it.

He has troubles finding a healthy relationship, he has gotten into relationships with women who are fresh out of rehab, or on probation, or broke and almost homeless. They all use him for his money and car and get him to do ridiculous things for them. He is so caught up in how they look and trying to help them and having a sexual partner that he can't see where these situations lead to. Then he regrets getting involved with the person, claims they used up his money, his car and did not care about him at all. When he brings up a girl he is interested to me, he is reluctant to admit she has a criminal record and problems with drug abuse, he cannot see that this pattern will most likely lead to the same shit that has happened to him plenty of times before. It's frustrating seeing him walk like a horse to the slaughter.

[Beautiful sky]

Living in the moment and emersing oneself in enjoyable pleasures rather than what my mom does which is constantly preparing and planning for the next thing and the next thing and the next thing to do. Taking time to listen to music go out with friends to concerts instead of doing their taxes

[Beautiful sky]

ESE focus on bringing someone pleasure and they don’t look at the other person’s insides to guide them. They look at their role “to be a good (following morals) person.”

[Tallmo]

Ni polr has more to do with reacting directly as things happen, not understanding that there is a process. Interrupting things that are going perfectly well because there was a small mistake at a single moment etc. It is hard to describe but very easy to see

Almost the same: trying to influence the flow of events but doing this when its unnecessary.

Even simple everyday things requires some perception of process. I've come to understand this by observing Ni polrs

[Lord Pixel]

Ni polr has more to do with reacting directly as things happen, not understanding that there is a process. Interrupting things that are going perfectly well because there was a small mistake at a single moment etc. It is hard to describe but very easy to see

Almost the same: trying to influence the flow of events but doing this when its unnecessary.

Even simple everyday things requires some perception of process. I've come to understand this by observing Ni polrs

Well this kind of falls in line of failing to see future outcomes. Interrupting a process because of a small mistake, to me it also says that you don't see the insignificance of the small mistake to the whole process, because if you did you won't not find it important enough tor react to.

Oh pretty girl, drug addict like the last one, but somehow I don't see how this has a high chance of ending up like the last one too. I have no idea what the future holds.

[The Reality Denialist]

They socialize and are so trapped by it (due to some expectations for instance) that they can not interrupt it and arrive late.

Other ESE problems include lack of mechanistic understanding in cause and effect (including people). Limited processing regarding stuff in philosophical nature. Somehow they can still follow grammar rules and are very attentive to get the gist of things.


Isolating things to PoLR is problematic unless I hear it from their supervisor.

[consentingadult]

My ESE friend keeps making past mistakes when it comes to relationships. He can't seem to see that he is walking right into similar problems he had before, somehow he cannot even see it.

Not type related. Any immature type might be involved in repeating patterns developed from childhood issues.

[Lord Pixel]

They socialize and are so trapped by it (due to some expectations for instance) that they can not interrupt it and arrive late.

Other ESE problems include lack of mechanistic understanding in cause and effect (including people). Limited processing regarding stuff in philosophical nature. Somehow they can still follow grammar rules and are very attentive to get the gist of things.


Isolating things to PoLR is problematic unless I hear it from their supervisor.

This is what I think is happening here. @consentingadult, this is why I think it's some form of Ni PoLR.

[Exodus]

Lack of foresight, lack of depth, refusal to acknowledge anything negative. What you mentioned could be an example of #1 and 3.

[Itsme]

This is what I think is happening here. @consentingadult, this is why I think it's some form of Ni PoLR.

Also saw this a lot with an ESE i know

[Tallmo]

One can often see Ni polr in connection with Se demonstrative. Even if events are proceeding nice and smoothly the ESE might say that "nothing is happening so I have to take charge." Or ordering people to do what they are already doing.

[Chae]

I found an example of Ni PoLR at a social gathering on WSS.

ESEs naturally prioritise the excitement and enjoyment of the mood in the here and now. As such, little thought is given to the longer term consequences of one's actions or what is likely to happen as a result of such enthusiasm. ESEs are largely unable to consider how things develop over time, not easily being able to see how events in the now will influence likelihoods in the future and having difficulty narrowing down possibilities to a singular outcome. This can greatly limit the ability of ESEs to plan ahead, especially in terms of foreseeing strategic steps towards a goal, being largely uncomfortable with making any decisions based on how things are likely to be in an unclear future. Being faced with information that at some point, some event is likely to happen will often be ignored, with ESEs opting to simply see what happens rather than commit with uncertainty. Instead, ESEs put their energies into all things that could be done in the here and now. Rather than planning and thinking ahead in their actions, ESEs tend to hustle and bustle about in the present, involving themselves as passionately as they can in the proceedings. Such an approach, while making the present exciting, frequently suffers from lack of foresight, with ESEs being largely unwilling to spoil the present mood, even when it seems that not doing so will lead to harsher circumstances later. ESEs tend to see those who criticise the current fun in terms of its long-term effects as antisocial contrarians, thus preserving the etiquette of a gathering while failing to grasp the more important message. Furthermore, the efforts that ESEs go to in order to create merriment can run at the expense of other plans, with the attention on exciting people rarely factoring in duration.

[Lord Pixel]

I found an example of Ni PoLR at a social gathering on WSS.

Yes! Thank you. This thread is served.

Just want to put out an example of how this plays out.
When I point out to my friend "This girl is a drug addict like the last one you dated and spent all your money! What do you think this one is gonna do?!" He says, "Yessss, I know, but I mean look at her."

[Rebelondeck]

No to your second question. ESEs do often seem to have difficulty seeing and or understanding the full context and or consequence; and sometimes they don't want to even accept any opinions that may complicate their current accepted understandings of situations. However, I've known people of all types who have knowingly gotten burnt by others - walked into the fire so to speak. A person who isn't involved can easily see the danger; Ijs seem better than other temperaments at not making the same mistake twice but I have known more than a few who have also walked into burning buildings......

a.k.a. I/O

[Adam Strange]

No to your second question. ESEs do often seem to have difficulty seeing and or understanding the full context and or consequence; and sometimes they don't want to even accept any opinions that may complicate their current accepted understandings of situations. However, I've known people of all types who have knowingly gotten burnt by others - walked into the fire so to speak. A person who isn't involved can easily see the danger; Ijs seem better than other temperaments at not making the same mistake twice but I have known more than a few who have also walked into burning buildings......

a.k.a. I/O

I told my last GF (an LSI) on our first time out together that if we got together, the sex would be great and we’d last three months.
We both walked into that burning building.

[Lord Pixel]

No to your second question. ESEs do often seem to have difficulty seeing and or understanding the full context and or consequence; and sometimes they don't want to even accept any opinions that may complicate their current accepted understandings of situations. However, I've known people of all types who have knowingly gotten burnt by others - walked into the fire so to speak. A person who isn't involved can easily see the danger; Ijs seem better than other temperaments at not making the same mistake twice but I have known more than a few who have also walked into burning buildings......

a.k.a. I/O

Sure other types yea, I am trying to find out how ESE does this though so I made it ESE specific. And yes outside looking in it looks so damn clear. And another issue is, he is constantly reminded from me about this repeating pattern. So it's not like he's ignorant. He gets burned, calls me, I tell him not to date fire, he dates fire gets burned and I say I told you so. So he has been warned ahead of time that he's asking to be burned all over again. But Ni PoLR still takes that chance, because what are the odds the exact same thing happens again right?

I don't know how that isn't an example of some Ni PoLR in ESE at least.

[Adam Strange]

Sure other types yea, I am trying to find out how ESE does this though so I made it ESE specific. And yes outside looking in it looks so damn clear. And another issue is, he is constantly reminded from me about this repeating pattern. So it's not like he's ignorant. He gets burned, calls me, I tell him not to date fire, he dates fire gets burned and I say I told you so. So he has been warned ahead of time that he's asking to be burned all over again. But Ni PoLR still takes that chance, because what are the odds the exact same thing happens again right?

I don't know how that isn't an example of Ni PoLR in ESE at least.

The other thing he might be doing is seeking a childhood Imago. Those women who keep burning down his life might remind him of someone important to him.

[Beautiful sky]

Ni PoLR: “I don’t know how things will go in the future. I don’t know.”
Strong leading Ni: “I know where things are going. I just know.”
@Aylen do you agree with me?

[Rebelondeck]

......I don't know how that isn't an example of some Ni PoLR in ESE at least.

I doubt it - sounds more like a touch of insanity: repeating a pattern hoping for a different result.......

a.k.a. I/O

[Lord Pixel]

I doubt it - sounds more like a touch of insanity: repeating a pattern hoping for a different result.......

a.k.a. I/O

And that touch of insanity sounds like Ni PoLR in this ESE. It's one thing to know you are walking into a fire, it's another thing to be told it's a fire but for someone reason you don't think it will burn, like the 40 other times it burned.

[Exodus]

@Lord Pixel A lot of this is just weak Ni. An Se leading type could very well be oblivious to the deeper pattern going on and just care about the sex or whatever. I don't see a ton to suggest ESE specifically.

[Sol]

they often do things later than want and say. may forget about meal in a fridge - that thing of ESE reminds archeological place
the similar is for all S types but Si types also do not like to think about time limitations, become more annoyed by such thoughts and so easier loose the attention on time limitations, may forget about time and then... ops it's already 1 hour more than they supposed it would take
mostly it's funny to see about peoples' issues with polr. from the side, not when you depend on what people do. to get outdated meal is not so funny, for example

[Lord Pixel]

@Lord Pixel A lot of this is just weak Ni. An Se leading type could very well be oblivious to the deeper pattern going on and just care about the sex or whatever. I don't see a ton to suggest ESE specifically.

I agree I think it' 1D Ni. i'm not asking what the person's type is, just asking about the Ni, and PoLR Ni and Ni suggestive only difference I see is that one is valued and one is not.

[Exodus]

I agree I think it' 1D Ni. i'm not asking what the person's type is, just asking about the Ni, and PoLR Ni and Ni suggestive only difference I see is that one is valued and one is not.

Yeah. But it can be hard to see why the suggestive function is valued in some cases.

[Muddy]

I think the primary manifestion of Ni polr in ESE is them having a very shallow, conventional view towards the world. It's very uncharacteristic for them to hold strong political views and they sort of just live in their own pocket of reality, oblivious to distant events.

[Aylen]

Ni PoLR: “I don’t know how things will go in the future. I don’t know.”
Strong leading Ni: “I know where things are going. I just know.”
@Aylen do you agree with me?

I once gave this description of what I thought Ni polr looked like in an ESE and you said it was a good example.

Ni polr = Making a "5 year plan" then dismissing any relevant information that contradicts their timeline. Five years later they are somewhat disappointed that things didn't play out the way they had planned. I have given up offering my ESE sister this type of advice. I just tell her I support any decision she makes. It does more harm than good. My way is not better than her's and maybe someone else will offer her information that is more suited to her.

A recent example is that she is working on two careers right now. Stretching herself thin. Spent a lot of money to get a specialized license and now has decided she also needs a job with benefits and a pension too. Thing is we all know the job she has chosen for long term security is not something she will be able to do long term.

It has a high turnover rate and high benefits for a reason. There is no use in trying to talk her out of it. Her mind is set on doing this. She will figure it out herself and gain some valuable experience in the process. Meanwhile my EII sister and I just sit back and watch it play out as we have so many times before. We can't say anything now because we do not want to discourage her from doing something because we might be projecting our own discomfort with her choices. There is a 50/50 chance that she can do this due to creative Si. I had to tell my EII sister not to discourage her and let's just see what happens. When I told the EII about ESE's current plan she was horrified. haha Of course we both want to protect her. Fly little bird, fly...

[Exodus]

I think the primary manifestion of Ni polr in ESE is them having a very shallow, conventional view towards the world. It's very uncharacteristic for them to hold strong political views and they sort of just live in their own pocket of reality, oblivious to distant events.

While this is a fair criticism (related to the lack of depth I mentioned), it's probably most applicable to Delta STs. ESE can be quite opinionated due to valued Ti.

[karas]

No to your second question. ESEs do often seem to have difficulty seeing and or understanding the full context and or consequence; and sometimes they don't want to even accept any opinions that may complicate their current accepted understandings of situations. However, I've known people of all types who have knowingly gotten burnt by others - walked into the fire so to speak. A person who isn't involved can easily see the danger; Ijs seem better than other temperaments at not making the same mistake twice but I have known more than a few who have also walked into burning buildings......

a.k.a. I/O

Just distract them with different option, Ne-Ha

[Beautiful sky]

I think the primary manifestion of Ni polr in ESE is them having a very shallow, conventional view towards the world. It's very uncharacteristic for them to hold strong political views and they sort of just live in their own pocket of reality, oblivious to distant events.

I attribute that to Fe Si

[Muddy]

I attribute that to Fe Si

Functions are intertwined so yeah its got as much to do with Fe leading and Si creative as much as Ni polr.