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Thread: Observations of self - Can you relate or analyze?

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    Default Observations of self - Can you relate or analyze?

    Ok I think I have found some characteristics of my behavior/self which have been pretty stable. It is related to work behavior. I'm changing a bit when getting older though. But this was pretty stable when younger.

    I seriously dislike the situation where it is unclear what I should do next. E.g. I have finished everything I needed to do and now there are no acute deadlines and there are many things that I could start doing but it is unclear which of them is most important and acute. Which goals should I pursue next. My mind becomes scattered and I start doing many things at once bouncing from one work item to another to yet another trying to somehow grasp which of them is most important and changing my mind all the time. At the end of the day I have done many many things but unsure what exactly did I achieve and did I do the things which were most important. And this feeling of not knowing if chose the right path makes me unhappy and critical towards myself. As I would like to be effective and not waste effort.

    It is hard for me to sit down and start planning and prioritizing things. I would just like to do work and make progress. I feel every minute I sit down planning on what to do is wasted (which is of course not true just a feeling). I know some people can spend a LOT of time planning what to do. When I'm planning something I somehow hear the clock ticking faster and faster and irritation growing. I just want to get to doing things fast and plan while I do them. I definately need some help in these situations. Someone to guide me on what path to choose and make me trust that it is the right path. The minute I lose my faith in the chosen path I will jump to next...and to next....

    Now I like a situation when there are acute things to do. Deadlines are getting closer and lots of work to be done. There is no time to plan. I just have to get everything done before the deadline. A situation where I'm like a wounded animal in a blind alley. I only have one way to go and I have to fight my way out. There is no thinking about "what should I do next?" It is clear what I should do and that I should do it fast. In these situations my brain starts working faster and faster and faster and I become more and more determined. It is like a dynamic battlefield which I can see in my mind and my job is to win the battle. I can actually prioritize things much better too when there is heavy time pressure on me. It just somehow becomes obvious what to do next. And I get a lot of satisfaction for reaching my "target"/"winning the battle against time".

    Now this applies to short time range but to longer time range as well. E.g. I might have 2 months to finish a job and if I know the time is short the "battle mode" is activated and I concentrate totally on this "mission". There were times when I dedicated pretty much every second of my time to get the job done for quite a long period. So as long as it is clear what to do when I wake up next day I'm effective and can work 7 days a week with huge hours. Whenever deadline pressure is not there or it becomes unclear what the goal exactly is I start to lose motivation and jump from thing to thing with no clear direction. Setting goals and soon discarding them.

    One of my favourite work environments was a tightly knitted team that is given a goal/problem and a set time to reach the goal/solve the problem. And then the team is unleashed like a combat unit or a sports team. I had this kind of environment for some time in my life and it was great. Generally it is hard to find a place where people are dedicating themselves to the team and to the goal in the way I would like though. It is hard for me to work in a team which is somehow "scattered", not very effective and not dedicated to the "cause". In these situations I tend to become mentally a bit detached from the team.

    ----

    Well can you relate at all or come up with some type or functional analysis?

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    I think most of what you described is and you're ENTp. Not that I can point out the , but I've seen that excitement to solve the task/win in them before. Well, to be honest, most of all I just think you're ENTp.
    INFj

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    Quote Originally Posted by pesto
    I think most of what you described is and you're ENTp. Not that I can point out the , but I've seen that excitement to solve the task/win in them before. Well, to be honest, most of all I just think you're ENTp.
    Thanks for answering I was afraid that the text was too long and boring for people to even check it out.

    Anyways, INFjs seem to often think I might be ENTp. I guess it means they want to supervise me Actually it is one of the more probable types. Two main things that prevent me from settling to ENTp are 1) a person I knew who I thought was ENTp and was very probably not my identical, this person could have been ENTj instead though and 2) I feel somehow introverted and being ESTp look-a-like...hmm not sure at all.

    Anyways my best teammates were INTj and ESTj I think. The INTj was a bit irritating sometimes though but still someone I very much liked working with. I had perhaps a better out-of-work relations with the ESTj though. Now the worst work relations was with this ENTp (or ENTj) person. I wonder if these relations match with me being ENTp. Perhaps they do.

    Anyone have experience of identical work relations or quasi-identical work relations?

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    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    Two main things that prevent me from settling to ENTp are 1) a person I knew who I thought was ENTp and was very probably not my identical, this person could have been ENTj instead though and 2) I feel somehow introverted and being ESTp look-a-like...hmm not sure at all.
    The ENTps I know are a lot softer than ESTps and they aren't too fond of the pushiness of ESTps. (At least the version I get. :wink They're probably subtypes or whatever you want to call it.
    INFj

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    I relate to a pretty good extent. I hate feeling obligated to do things (I made a post in delta about that) but I do great when there's pressure. I've always been like that. When I was a newspaper reporter work was easy because I always had only a really short period of time to write anything. But when I have tons of time and have to figure out what to do next, I'm a bit lost.

    This sentence I REALLY get and related to much more than just time management - it's like the story of my life:

    And this feeling of not knowing if chose the right path makes me unhappy and critical towards myself.
    So maybe it's a sign of Ne and you're ENTp or maybe it's a sign you might be ENFp. I don't know.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    -Mark Twain


    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

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    @ Xox

    Most of the things you describe an INTp can relate to as well. It is hard to find anything in your description that is clearly inconsistent with being an INTp. What it is very clear, though, is that you are a P type, with either an EP or an IP temperament.

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    That's an ExxP temperament thing.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Default Re: Observations of self - Can you relate or analyze?

    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    And this feeling of not knowing if chose the right path makes me unhappy and critical towards myself. As I would like to be effective and not waste effort.
    Like the others, I think that what you wrote is indication of irrationality, more likely EP than IP, but the bit above suggests that you may have as hidden agenda, ie you value it but need help with it. An ENTp, I would think, would feel more secure about it.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    The "choosing of the right path" is how help to is described in the last Smilingeyes' posts.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    ...........

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    Default Re: Observations of self - Can you relate or analyze?

    Well xNxp seems like a safe bet. Subjectively I think ENFp and INTp are more probable than ENTp and INFp.

    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    And this feeling of not knowing if chose the right path makes me unhappy and critical towards myself. As I would like to be effective and not waste effort.
    Like the others, I think that what you wrote is indication of irrationality, more likely EP than IP, but the bit above suggests that you may have as hidden agenda, ie you value it but need help with it. An ENTp, I would think, would feel more secure about it.
    I have thought about the hidden agenda thing and it is possible. But still despite all objections here I feel INTp is somehow more likely than ENFp. ENFps are supposed to be one of the more social types. It is really hard to see myself like that. INTp profiles just fit much better than ENFps.

    My effectiveness problems are somehow related to problems with setting clear and stable goals. I feel insecure because no matter how effective I am if my goals such then my work is useless. Or something. I'm still not sure it is a problem really. Might as well be the tactic/strategic thingy from Reinin dichotomies. Me being very tactic but lacking in strategy.

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    The "choosing of the right path" is how help to is described in the last Smilingeyes' posts.
    Ah, but I could still see myself as producer of in this picture. If the -person would set a goal then I can set the path. I can optimize paths if I know the goal. But if I'm alone setting goals then my goal is jumping around all the time and thus I'm constantly reoptimizing the path and feeling insecure about my choices. As I set a goal x, then calculate the optimal path to x. Then I start to think goal x is useless and thus my path is useless and so on. So it is more like I can't choose the right path because the goal is not stable. Nowadays I'm bored at setting goals at all because I can't seem to keep them. I want someone else to set a stable goal for me. But it must be a goal that I think is worth the effort. If I start to doubt the goal then I start to doubt the path and then I start to doubt whether anything I do or have done have any meaning at all. Then everything kind of collapses and I start all over again.

    When working alone I have a habbit of starting over many times. Going down one path and then discarding it all. Going down another path and then discarding it. A lot of wasted effort there. But I'm thinking now the primary reason is lack of a stable goal not so much the lack of capability to choose the optimal path.

    Quote Originally Posted by stefana
    Maybe you can talk with a couple of ENTps, INFps, ENFps and INTps (wow, that's four) if they and you don't mind it.
    That might work if I actually knew people from those types I have known people from all those types in the past but in my current tiny social network there is only an ENFp but no representatives of the other types. I just don't have the energy or inspiration to build social networks I just go with the flow. Sometimes I have periods where I interact more with people sometimes less. Depends on circumstances. I'm not very proactive in that matter. Social things just kind of happen (or don't happen) to me.

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    Default Re: Observations of self - Can you relate or analyze?

    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    Well xNxp seems like a safe bet. Subjectively I think ENFp and INTp are more probable than ENTp and INFp.
    It should not be that difficult to determine which one of those two types you are, if you are not another type.

    One very clear difference between ENFps and INTps is seen in their almost opposite attitudes towards new projects. Lately I have been seriously discussing/contemplating the idea of forming some sort of working relationship with an ENFp friend of mine, probably in the form of a small firm. He is good at making social contacts, making phone calls etc. I would rather not do such things.

    The most striking difference between us in this initial stage of a possible mutual project is that he is very enthusiastic about the whole thing, whereas I am focused on all the things that might go wrong. I don't want to be enthusiastic, because I see danger in that. He is not very hesitant about taking financial loans, for example, whereas I am very sceptical about it and want first to see if we can get any incomes. That difference between us can, at a very general level, be seen as a difference between extraversion and introversion, but of course it also reflects the very accentuated scepticism of an INTp towards new projects, and "to others who are undertaking new beginnings. They are able to pour cold water on others burning enthusiasm." Another quote from the same site (SG's) that illustrates the INTp attitude is this one:

    Another of INTp problems is an excessive scepticism about new ideas and new projects, especially if projects require a lot of energy and enthusiasm for their development. This causes some conservatism and passiveness if INTps are involved in such projects.
    In contrast to that attitude of mine, my ENFp friend, like most ENFps, is much more people oriented and enthusiastic, and he doesn't want to think critically about the possible problems that might arise.

    The main reason we have thought about working together is that we are good at different things. One problem that we both have is of course that none of us is particularly good at administration and completion.

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    Default Re: Observations of self - Can you relate or analyze?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus
    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    Well xNxp seems like a safe bet. Subjectively I think ENFp and INTp are more probable than ENTp and INFp.
    It should not be that difficult to determine which one of those two types you are, if you are not another type.
    Well seriously speaking it is impossible I'm ENFp or INFp based on descriptions. It is just something that has again and again surfaced here and whenever I do a poll people vote ENFp. So somehow I started considering those types.

    But using the socionics.com profiles (which are sometimes criticized) I only relate to very small amount of types...

    INTp
    - Very good match. I don't really see anything conflicting. Little details match too like "INTps may check that all home appliances are off many times before leaving.", "they may wash their hands more often than others do", "They pay a lot attention to hygiene and sanitation." Well the parts like "footwear can be in bad condition" are not as accurate. I do have some pretty old and worn shoes but I wouldn't use them on important occasions. I have some decent shoes too. Anyways, I do have a general habbit of wearing clothes until they just can't be used anymore. I don't buy clothes unless I really need to. But I'm not eccentric or indifferent with my clothes like wearing worn shoes to make a statement or wearing worn shoes because I just don't care what I wear.

    ISTp
    - Good match too. There are parts like "They are very practical people" which don't really fit if you talk about physical practicality. This is why I see INTp descriptions fitting better. I'm not practical with physical tools etc. The concrete/abstract thing points to INTp not ISTp. But ISTp descriptions are not bad.

    ENTp
    - Possible. The "chaos, destruction, ..." things don't really fit though. But the creative and absent minded parts do. I think INTp and ISTp are better but this is a good third.

    INTj
    - Possible. I don't see any major problems. Except perhaps the "long psychological distance", "speech is clear and logical and follow logical progression" and things like that. I feel I'm not that distant and I feel I'm more scattered. I think it is the IJ temperament which doesn't match.

    INFj
    - Not as good match as INTj. Not completely impossible though. I still think INTj fits better.

    Other descriptions are a generally bad fit. ENFp and INFp descriptions don't fit at all Except the very short subtype descriptions I have read. I can see how for example ENFp(F) could fit. As well as INFp(N). But even there I think INTp(N) is as good or better fit.

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    I hope this won't confuse you further, but have you tried comparing your preferences on vs by reading up on them? I suggest sticking to the russian articles and other qualified info like Rick's site. The confusion about them on here might be part of what makes it hard for you to find your type.
    INFj

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    Default Re: Observations of self - Can you relate or analyze?

    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    Well seriously speaking it is impossible I'm ENFp or INFp based on descriptions.
    In that case you cannot be an ENFp or an INFp. You must fit the type descriptions of your type. You can never be a type and not fit the type descriptions of the same type.

    That you don't fit ENFp or INFp suggests that it is more likely that you are a T type. But the fact that you still consider more than two types means that you should read more type profiles, and view yourself from as many different angles as possible. I can assure you (but others will protest) that you can benefit from reading MBTI and Enneagram profiles too. And you can read about introversion and extraversion in general to determine which fits you better. Don't read only the material from Socionics. It is clear that it is not enough in your case.

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    Default Same Old...

    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    Anyways, INFjs seem to often think I might be ENTp. I guess it means they want to supervise me Actually it is one of the more probable types.?
    At least online I often seem to get the feeling I supervise almost every type, an attitude problem probably. You could read also read - and carefully think through - all the Smilingeyes threads. I think they should be enlightening.

    Two main things that prevent me from settling to ENTp are 1) a person I knew who I thought was ENTp and was very probably not my identical, this person could have been ENTj instead though and 2) I feel somehow introverted and being ESTp look-a-like...hmm not sure at all.
    I would say it is generally better to avoid trying to type oneself by the intertype relations, no one can determine the types with certainty, and they are always just one aspect of communication, and do not fully manifest in work enviroment. With regard to intertype relations one also tends to see what one (subconsciously) expects to see. Generally identical relations should be quite OK though. You could very well be INTP too, but do the other INTPs see you as "one of their own"?
    "Arnie is strong, rightfully angry and wants to kill somebody."
    martin_g_karlsson


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    Default Re: Same Old...

    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousSoul
    I would say it is generally better to avoid trying to type oneself by the intertype relations, no one can determine the types with certainty, and they are always just one aspect of communication, and do not fully manifest in work enviroment. With regard to intertype relations one also tends to see what one (subconsciously) expects to see. Generally identical relations should be quite OK though. You could very well be INTP too, but do the other INTPs see you as "one of their own"?
    Yes, it is not impossible for me to see XoX as an INTp. There are more than one example where we seem to think and reason alike. I also want to point out that I agree with you that one should not try to type oneself by the intertype relations. Reading type descriptions is a much more reliable method, even better than focusing on the functions (but of course some people don't believe that).

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    Default Re: Same Old...

    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus
    There are more than one example where we seem to think and reason alike.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Default Re:

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus
    There are more than one example where we seem to think and reason alike.
    Stop it! He is making sense imho

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