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Thread: Embracing my ESTp (from MBTI ENTJ)

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    Default Embracing my ESTp (from MBTI ENTJ)

    Hello! Anyone else who are from MBTI ENTJ > Socionics ESTp?

    Also, anyone who are NOT from ENTJ in MBTI? Mind sharing what you are in MBTI?

    Trying to learn more about this connection / non-connection.

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    Swimming in Space Hekate's Avatar
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    Hi! I’m an INTP in MBTI and most likely an IEI.

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    To Stand As The Oak Luminous Lynx's Avatar
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    Pardon my irrelevance - I typed both INFJ and ENFJ in MBTI, and I've typed IEI-Fe and EIE-Ni in Socionics. EIE-Ni was the destination, and is holding up under testing and observation from others

    @Adam Strange is our chief ENTj around here, so he can probably clarify a thing or three. ESTp (SLE) and ENTj (LIE) have many of the same functional 'strength' levels, and thus similar strengths, but they 'value' different Rational functions. Where SLE is consciously excellent with Se and unconsciously excellent with Te, LIE is consciously great with Te, and projects an impression of Se through their Mobilizing/Activation function, often known as the "Hidden Agenda" or HA for short on the forums.

    As for the "Strength" (this shouldn't be taken completely literally) of a given function, in Socionics we assign a set of dimensions to each of the functions, which we call "IEs", or "Information Elements" (meaning, the kind of information that we read into content and phenomena, inferred through our functions). Here is an article on functional dimensions: http://en.socionicasys.org/bibliotek...ons-of-a-model

    As an SLE, Your top two functions are Se 4D, and Ti 3D. You also possess the other forms of Sensation (Si) and Thinking (Te) unconsciously. In the case of SLE, their Te is their strongest unconscious feature (4D) and their Si is their second strongest unconscious feature (3D). It's all alot to digest, and Socionics can require an exhaustive amount of research and reflection, but the pieces will slowly start to cohere and it'll click for You

    For further information on the types themselves and their given functions, refer to the Articles section of the forums, and leave any questions You have here, and I'm sure someone savvy will be able to lend a hand.

    "We live in an age in which there is no heroic death."



    Model A: EIE-Ni2
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    Model G: EI

    Quadra Values: Beta
    Dyad:
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    DCNH: Harmonizing
    Enneagram: 6w7, 2w1, 8w9
    Instinctual Variant: Sx/So

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    Actually, @FDG is the chief ENTj around here (if there is such a thing as a chief in Gamma, and there really isn't). I'm a latecomer to the party.

    FDG has more experience and knows the theory better than I do.

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    Not strange at all. I believe the majority of MBTI ENTJs are SLEs in Socionics.

    MBTI should have stayed with dichotomies and never tried to connect them to cognitive functions. The way MBTI tests are built numerous type into their extinguishment or quasi-identicals. And the intuitive bias misleads numerous more sensors type into their business, kindred, activity, benefactors or beneficiaries. LIE is the benefactor of SLE.

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    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
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    If you really are SLE but typed ENTJ in MBTI then I would say that you were mistyped. You can't really disregard the real phenomenon of types, even in MBTI. But it's only with knowledge of Socionics that you really can confirm you type.

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    @Tallmo I disagree with your argument. A lot of ENTJ in MBTI are SLE in socionics. When I think of SLE who are ENTJ in MBTI, I think of Napoleon Bonaparte. That's because socionics IME are interpreted differently than MBTI cogntive functions. Socionics Se correspond with MBTI Te since both meant power and authority. In fact, the stereotypical enneagram associated with MBTI ENTJ are 8w7, and 8w7 are associated with SLE in socionics. There is no direct translation between the two.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim View Post
    @Tallmo I disagree with your argument. A lot of ENTJ in MBTI are SLE in socionics. When I think of SLE who are ENTJ in MBTI, I think of Napoleon Bonaparte. That's because socionics IME are interpreted differently than MBTI cogntive functions. Socionics Se correspond with MBTI Te since both meant power and authority. In fact, the stereotypical enneagram associated with MBTI ENTJ are 8w7, and 8w7 are associated with SLE in socionics. There is no direct translation between the two.
    I must be a hybrid, then, because I'm ENTJ in MBTI and LIE-Te in Socionicis, and am definitely 8w7.

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    Quote Originally Posted by melindap View Post
    Hello! Anyone else who are from MBTI ENTJ > ?
    ENTJ = LIE

    there is no "Socionics ESTp". there is ESTP which is also writes as SLE in Socionics
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    @Adam Strange
    ENTJ 8w7 could be LIE if they valued efficiency, usefulness, and profit (Socionics Te) over power, territory, and authority (Socionics Se). However, the stereotypical ENTJ 8w7 tend to be SLE in socionics. That said, there is not really a direct translation between the two typologies. Socionics Se is not the same as MBTI Se. Socionics Te is not the same as MBTI Te. The 8 MBTI cogntive functions are not the same thing as the 8 Socionics IME.

    ENTJ who are LIE are more entrepreneurial like Bill Gates or Henry Ford. ENTJ who are SLE are more of a commander type like Napoleon Bonaparte and Otto Von Bismarck.

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    i'm ISFP in mbti and IEI

    mind you mbti is utter tripe

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim View Post
    @Tallmo I disagree with your argument. A lot of ENTJ in MBTI are SLE in socionics. When I think of SLE who are ENTJ in MBTI, I think of Napoleon Bonaparte. That's because socionics IME are interpreted differently than MBTI cogntive functions. Socionics Se correspond with MBTI Te since both meant power and authority. In fact, the stereotypical enneagram associated with MBTI ENTJ are 8w7, and 8w7 are associated with SLE in socionics. There is no direct translation between the two.
    I'm an INTJ in MBTI. I always had trouble relating to the idea that Te in MBTI was about power since it never made any sense to me. Why would valuing facts, efficiency, direct methods, and pragmatism (all aspects of Te in MBTI) also lead to a need for power and authority? I realized that it isn't exactly power Te is after but rather control over actions. Due to Te's competent nature, it naturally yields some arrogance in its users who begin to feel as though they can outperform everybody else. Thus, they feel as though they should be in charge and have the power to make things "correct".

    It seems to me that this is a conclusion derived from Te axioms in MBTI rather than an axiom itself despite being heralded as one of Te's chief traits. I don't think it's a particularly logical conclusion since it assumes the individual would become arrogant and doesn't take into consideration how perceiving functions lead to doubt or how introverted judging functions can lead to the same arrogant nature, but it's a conclusion nonetheless. It's reasons like this that I strayed away from MBTI. It's a self-aggrandizing mess for intuitive types.
    ----- FarDraft, 2019 | Te-ILI | 5w6 3w4 8w7 Sp/Sx | INTJ

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    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim View Post
    @Tallmo I disagree with your argument. A lot of ENTJ in MBTI are SLE in socionics. When I think of SLE who are ENTJ in MBTI, I think of Napoleon Bonaparte. That's because socionics IME are interpreted differently than MBTI cogntive functions. Socionics Se correspond with MBTI Te since both meant power and authority. In fact, the stereotypical enneagram associated with MBTI ENTJ are 8w7, and 8w7 are associated with SLE in socionics. There is no direct translation between the two.
    I understand that tests might give that result. But the types and the cognitive functions are real phenomena. And both typologies are obviously aiming to describe the same phenomenon. It's not like mbti has discovered some totally different thing that they are trying to describe. A quick look at the type descriptions shows this. The difference is that mbti has some mistakes, and that correct typing is often difficult in mbti because they don't know about the type relations. I don't buy it at all that mbti could be some independent typology.

    So my view is that if a real SLE types ENTJ in mbti then he hasn't understood what types are about, he is maybe more going by shallow behaviour etc. Because what happens when he meets a real ENTJ (that is, a LIE)? He is going to see that something was wrong.

    I was typing "in socionics" long before I knew about socioincs, because with enough comparisons the real types can be seen, even without the correct theory.

    I can't give any proof of this, so debating might not lead anywhere. It's my last 10 years of experience with types and relationships that has shown me that Socionics has the correct real types.
    Last edited by Tallmo; 02-10-2019 at 08:31 AM.

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    f.k.a Oprah sbbds's Avatar
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    Don't make the jump if you already believe you're an ENTJ. MBTI sez ENTJs make the most money by far, and who doesn't need a good positive self-fulfilling prophecy in their lives?

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    I'm the same probably. I'm a 3w4 though.
    I mean, I thought I was LIE at first because I just assumed direct correlation. However, I'm about 95% sure I'm an ENTJ in MBTI and ESTp in socionics.

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    Hmm perhaps I should read both descriptions again to see where I am at...

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    Quote Originally Posted by melindap View Post
    Hello! Anyone else who are from MBTI ENTJ > Socionics ESTp?

    Also, anyone who are NOT from ENTJ in MBTI? Mind sharing what you are in MBTI?

    Trying to learn more about this connection / non-connection.
    ISTJ, LSI, simple enough

    If you are natural with long term future focused thinking then you aren't SLE/ESTp and keep to LIE/ENTj in Socionics too. If you are not all that natural at it then you are SLE/ESTp and ESTP in MBTI too.

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