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Thread: IEI/INFp vulnerability and niceness

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    Default IEI/INFp vulnerability and niceness

    How nice would you rate yourself? Nice as in even vulnerable, head over heels sorta, i'll do anything for you nice? I have this soft spot for people who are not as priviliged and suffering perhaps and that's not a good thing 'cause they might take advantage of me. So now I'm not gonna be nice. I feel too vulnerable and I think I crossed the line that I can't just drop walls and be nice to people who don't deserve it? Because I read slava's post and I was like awww, poor lonely estp, so alone. But no no, I must not think that way. As I get older, I'm more and more reluctant to go out of my way to be nice to someone. It makes me feel paranoid and used even if they aren't. I'm much more comfortable with I'll give you this if you give me that and I'm more aware of it. A natural progression, you think? No one stays nice for too long.
    INFP

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    Well that's the Fe problem I was speaking in one of my posts. The healthier a person is the least likely he is to reiceve any Fe cuz people will think "He doesn't really need it". So it happens that it's utilized a mask of unhealth in order to get it.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    I am incredibly nice when I decide the person deserves it. And I am horribly upset when they decide not to talk to me anymore, or back stab, etc...


    I don't think I could be a flat out bitch, but I do say bitchy things when I'm pissed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mustachio
    if they're ever on the opposite side of a debate, i can't help but crush them (emotionally), telling them how idiotic i think they are! of course, i don't really mean it, them clam up and the next day, because i never tell people i'm sorry (wtf?), i start up the subject again to say (without looking at them) how much i agree with a certain opinion which just happens to be theirs.
    Those are not INFps you described. Those are just spineless twits. In future, please do not confuse INFps with spineless twits. At times, the INFp does indeed resemble the spineless twit, but I assure you those two terms are not interchangeable.
    "How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
    -- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet

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    lol yea, the stereotypes are driving me a bit nutty, everyone can be spineless twits or worst things, it depends on each individual, it's not a bad thing to be nice, i am nice but i'm not a carpet, yuo can't step over me and expect me to roll and ignore it, perhaps i'll if the situation is uncertain and i fee like you're not a bad person but i can easily crush you if I want to, it's just too much effort and we dislike ugliness and conflict, doesn't mean we can't, means we think better of you than you think of yourself you useless loser, lol, j/k...*calms down*
    INFP

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    wtf? i hate this "nice" description of INFps all the time.

    i kinda go against it. i am definitely NOT one to be walked all over, or even to be overly sweet. meh, i am pretty selfish to be honest. but i DO enjoy with a passion helping people out of their troubles and whatnot. i just find some of this nice stereotype to be sickening.


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    Well, truth be told, I think certain types of INFps can sometimes perpetuate the "nice" stereotype. INFp poetry is full of "Nice guy screwed over by the world" sort of crap, for instance, which in some sense is a reflection of "beta quadra values." And on an entirely different end of the spectrum, there are those INFps who act tough and overcompensate and end up looking ridiculous, and only serve to underscore their own "niceness."

    And I actually was referring mostly to this aspect of mustachio's post:
    Quote Originally Posted by mustachio
    i can't help but crush them (emotionally), telling them how idiotic i think they are! of course, i don't really mean it, them clam up
    That someone would automatically equate this sort of behavior (particularly the inability to hold their own in a debate setting) with INFps sickens me.
    "How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
    -- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet

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    Oh man, that poetry thing is hilarious Baby...

    Yeah, the Beta Quadra values are funny but so true for me.. TO CONQUER DESPITE SUFFERING. =)

    It's almost as if we INFps almost ENJOY the suffering.. or.. wallow in it. Cause it gives us character? Or something romantic.. =/ I dunno how to describe it for others to understand. I know I am attracted to sad, melancholy stuff in music and whatnot


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    Yeah. I think INFps' tastes in music tend to reflect their personality quite accurately. In many ways, we identify with the melancholy stuff because that stuff comes from a place of vulnerability (which I think almost all INFps are familiar with).

    The other aspect in that sort of music is defiance - the very act of singing about it, making art out of some potentially ugly feelings, serves to sort of make one immune to the influence of those antagonistic forces. Most of the time, we can't play the "I'm going to beat your ass down" game. What we can do, and part of why I think is so important in music, is refuse to play the game to begin with. Now, this is funny because we're essentially saying: "I'm not going to fight you, but I will write a song/poem about it. Hahahahaha! How you like 'DEM apples!!!"
    "How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
    -- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baby
    Yeah. I think INFps' tastes in music tend to reflect their personality quite accurately. In many ways, we identify with the melancholy stuff because that stuff comes from a place of vulnerability (which I think almost all INFps are familiar with).

    The other aspect in that sort of music is defiance - the very act of singing about it, making art out of some potentially ugly feelings, serves to sort of make one immune to the influence of those antagonistic forces. Most of the time, we can't play the "I'm going to beat your ass down" game. What we can do, and part of why I think is so important in music, is refuse to play the game to begin with. Now, this is funny because we're essentially saying: "I'm not going to fight you, but I will write a song/poem about it. Hahahahaha! How you like 'DEM apples!!!"
    My favourite writer is INFP, since age 9, and these sentiments are Eerily similar to his worldview.
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    It's nine o'clock on a Saturday
    The regular crowd shuffles in
    There's an old man sitting next to me
    Making love to his tonic and gin

    He says, "Son can you play me a memory
    I'm not really sure how it goes
    But it's sad and it's sweet
    And I knew it complete
    When I wore a younger man's clothes"

    Sing us a song you're the piano man
    Sing us a song tonight
    Well we're all in the mood for a melody
    And you've got us feeling alright

    Now John at the bar is a friend of mine
    He gets me my drinks for free
    And he's quick with a joke or to light up your smoke
    But there's someplace that he'd rather be

    He says, "Bill, I believe this is killing me"
    As a smile ran away from his face
    "Well, I'm sure that I could be a movie star
    If I could get out of this place"

    Now Paul is a real estate novelist
    Who never had time for a wife
    And he's talking with Davy, who's still in the Navy
    And probably will be for life

    And the waitress is practicing politics
    As the businessmen slowly get stoned
    Yes they're sharing a drink they call loneliness
    But it's better than drinking alone

    Sing us a song you're the piano man
    Sing us a song tonight
    Well we're all in the mood for a melody
    And you've got us feeling alright

    It's a pretty good crowd for a Saturday
    And the manager gives me a smile
    Cause he knows that it's me they've been coming to see
    To forget about life for a while

    And the piano sounds like a carnival
    And the microphone smells like a beer
    And they sit at the bar and put bread in my jar
    And say "Man what are you doing here?"

    Sing us a song you're the piano man
    Sing us a song tonight
    Well we're all in the mood for a melody
    And you've got us feeling alright
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    Enjoying suffering in romantic relationships is just a teenage girl value.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    That, or my father's value.
    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    betas should be kept in zoos for children to stare and throw pop corn at.

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    Yeah reading some of this makes me feel less like I belong =/

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    Beta's Quadra age is suppose to be 'youth/teenage.' This has a lot of implications. This means they are often the most involved and willing to fight for what they believe in, but at the same time I think this gives their relationships a nasty edge. Most of the Beta couples I have known have been very social and this usually includes bringing their drama into the social setting. Most of the beta people I have met have never been humbled by society's values.

    Also, I'm keenly aware of how little this means. My vivid examples don't describe the group on the whole.

    Gosh, I'm still barely convinced that the Beta quadra members of this messageboard are actually Beta.
    asd

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    Quote Originally Posted by heath
    Gosh, I'm still barely convinced that the Beta quadra members of this messageboard are actually Beta.
    I'll bite... please elaborate.
    "How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
    -- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet

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    Quote Originally Posted by heath
    Most of the Beta couples I have known have been very social and this usually includes bringing their drama into the social setting.
    I know what you mean, and I absolutely hate that. I'd be willing to dump a girl if she ever dare to make a relationship something "public".

    Most of the beta people I have met have never been humbled by society's values.
    I relate to this, instead. Immature as it sounds - I don't care - I can't bring myself to give a shit about them.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    well, you might be a beta, baby.. But the others are way too wholesome and don't have the fierceness or the harshness I've found in Betas I know in person. Most of the people here think being ridiculous is being Beta. I always saw Beta as the quadra that was clearsighted and antagonistic, especially the sensors of the quadra. But, you know, I could have it wrong.
    asd

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG

    I relate to this, instead. Immature as it sounds - I don't care - I can't bring myself to give a shit about them.
    It's good that you don't care about them--what would be immature is you held it against others if they hold those values. This is a behaviour I've found common in Betas. It's rarely constructive.
    asd

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    My take on that is that as long as they don't hold them against me, I won't hold mines against them.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by heath
    well, you might be a beta, baby.. But the others are way too wholesome and don't have the fierceness or the harshness I've found in Betas I know in person. Most of the people here think being ridiculous is being Beta. I always saw Beta as the quadra that was clearsighted and antagonistic, especially the sensors of the quadra. But, you know, I could have it wrong.
    ... I shouldn't have asked.
    "How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
    -- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baby
    Quote Originally Posted by heath
    well, you might be a beta, baby.. But the others are way too wholesome and don't have the fierceness or the harshness I've found in Betas I know in person. Most of the people here think being ridiculous is being Beta. I always saw Beta as the quadra that was clearsighted and antagonistic, especially the sensors of the quadra. But, you know, I could have it wrong.
    ... I shouldn't have asked.
    Quite the response. I was hoping you might refute my statements with insider knowledge. I'm not stuck in my view.
    asd

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    Quote Originally Posted by maizemedley
    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Quote Originally Posted by heath
    Most of the Beta couples I have known have been very social and this usually includes bringing their drama into the social setting.
    I know what you mean, and I absolutely hate that. I'd be willing to dump a girl if she ever dare to make a relationship something "public".
    I hate that too. I don't really share the little nuances in my marriage to my family or friends. I just prefer to keep our connection private. Plus, on the more practical side, whatever I have to say about my marriage, I say to him. The matter is between us. Involving others would just make it feel...silly.

    In public, we tend to act like we don't even know each other. It's quite interesting really. We hardly ever hug or kiss in public. And when we do, we do it quick because it just feels uncomfortable. There's something special about it being OURS. Plus, neither of us we likes to draw attention to ourselves.
    Same. I feel always as if we live in our own little world of memories and references and inside jokes and understanding and favorite pasttimes when I'm alone with my S.O. When we go out into society, I tend to want to keep those wonderful things "between us" and so we go our separate ways and come "home" to each other when we're alone together again.
    "How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
    -- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet

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    Quote Originally Posted by heath
    Quote Originally Posted by Baby
    Quote Originally Posted by heath
    well, you might be a beta, baby.. But the others are way too wholesome and don't have the fierceness or the harshness I've found in Betas I know in person. Most of the people here think being ridiculous is being Beta. I always saw Beta as the quadra that was clearsighted and antagonistic, especially the sensors of the quadra. But, you know, I could have it wrong.
    ... I shouldn't have asked.
    Quite the response. I was hoping you might refute my statements with insider knowledge. I'm not stuck in my view.
    I don't extend quadra values as far as you have. I don't really think our conceptions of what Socionics is would really be all that compatible. We'd be coming at it from completely different places, so I can't really refute anything in your post.
    "How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
    -- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet

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    Quote Originally Posted by heath
    But the others are way too wholesome and don't have the fierceness or the harshness I've found in Betas I know in person. Most of the people here think being ridiculous is being Beta. I always saw Beta as the quadra that was clearsighted and antagonistic, especially the sensors of the quadra. But, you know, I could have it wrong.
    What the fuck else would I be?

    Beta =/= bitter, rediculous, and nasty.
    , Se-sub
    8w8-3w8-7w8 sx/sx

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    but now that i think of it, she was probably a bit depressed thus fragile. her estp boyfriend would cheat on her a lot. the worst part was she knew about it since he's so conspicuous. he'd go to the strip joint every afternoon and never hid the fact from her. actually, he kind of reveled in the fact that she did know. i would tell him how sorry he looked and how wrong it was but (the whole cheating thing)...

    one night, i was at their apartment and he went out, told me he'd be back in five. it took me three quarters of an hour to get the message. meanwhile, the infp had locked herself in her room and played the dixie chicks rendition of "landslide" over and over and over and over again! i don't frighten easily but this sent chills up my spine!

    Well, I’ve been afraid of changing
    Cause I built my life around you

    i skedaddled outta there fast!

    i don't see them anymore but they still live together.
    That's not an INFP tendency. That's a retarded twit's tendency. Eeeeww.

    I think we do wallow but there comes a point when it becomes ridicilious and we know it so we pull out and be happy for a few days.

    I don't care about society either but no hugging/kissing sounds a bit extreme and that's quite surprising...

    I'm selfish too and I always see my own problems/pain/needs before other peoples but I'm nice in that I care about people who are less fortunate, people who no one loves but I mean to say in my first post that I stopped being so open about it like I should hide it better and not try to be so sympathetic because in the end, who's to garunteed I get any of that nice feeling back....no one...I don't help people not wanting something back, it's not like an aimless niceness that embraces ALL. So everyone, chill out. Tension makes me uneasy.
    INFP

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    Default Re: Infps and their nice-ness

    Quote Originally Posted by dreamer
    How nice would you rate yourself? Nice as in even vulnerable, head over heels sorta, i'll do anything for you nice? I have this soft spot for people who are not as priviliged and suffering perhaps and that's not a good thing 'cause they might take advantage of me. So now I'm not gonna be nice. I feel too vulnerable and I think I crossed the line that I can't just drop walls and be nice to people who don't deserve it? Because I read slava's post and I was like awww, poor lonely estp, so alone. But no no, I must not think that way. As I get older, I'm more and more reluctant to go out of my way to be nice to someone. It makes me feel paranoid and used even if they aren't. I'm much more comfortable with I'll give you this if you give me that and I'm more aware of it. A natural progression, you think? No one stays nice for too long.
    I really couldn’t rate my general niceness on a scale of one to ten. I suppose I’m pretty neural in this regard. If you were to ask someone like my sister if I were a nice person, she would most likely say, "it depends...".

    People also tend to have mixed feelings on this. I’ve had some people tell me I was the nicest person on the face of this earth... a girl once told me she thought I was so nice, she would feel bad refusing me anything if I asked for it.
    I’ve also had others think I was a bitch. I find that people usually dislike the fact that I can be rather blunt. When my behavior grows needy, I’ll usually act like a bitchy ESFp girl (I probably get this behavior from friends).

    More so than not, I will be very polite to you no matter who you are. If I like you, I’ll be very friendly. If I dislike you I’ll still be polite, but I won’t take your bullshit if you decide to cross some line. I’m the kind of person who will appear very nice and humble on the outside, but won’t necessarily be thinking the same things on the inside.
    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    betas should be kept in zoos for children to stare and throw pop corn at.

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    infp: the appearance of being nice. maybe a little not-nice inside, and the estp, their dual, is there to express it directly. i've noticed that estp's sort of run interference for their infp mates.

    ILE

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blaze8
    infp: the appearance of being nice. maybe a little not-nice inside...
    Agree. I was thinking about saying the same thing. One INFp girl I know is like that. When she tells people that she hates them and that she can really understand why so-and-so hates them too, she does it in a very calm voice.

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    Well then, I don't want to be ESTp anymore (joking, but you get it) (besides, having very strong orgasms doesn't sound me a behaviour to be condemned )
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blaze8
    infp: the appearance of being nice. maybe a little not-nice inside, and the estp, their dual, is there to express it directly. i've noticed that estp's sort of run interference for their infp mates.
    This is sadly true, and truly sad. Lacking an ESTp, there actually will usually be someone there to fend for the INFp in tense situations.

    I have been musing a lot on what it is that makes INFps so unable to be assertive, and need resort to this sort of passive-aggression and vicarious vengeance... and can this be remedied by any chance? I don't have an answer for you at this very minute. It's not an easy question to answer. Like Cone said, we are asking the "Why?" of functions, which no one ever bothers to do here unless they are in the very early stages of indoctrination into this theory. This is where "type" runs the risk of becoming a psychological pathology. The two should never be synonymous, and yet one would get that very picture that "type" is another word for "seriously screwed up" by reading some of the attributions on this forum.
    "How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
    -- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet

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    As an INFp,

    i love being needed emotionally, but i hate needing others.

    this tends to look unselfish, which is mislabeld "nice" when really its just a function of my personality. i backstab, lie, steal, and cheat at boardgames. nice. please. if the local police department burns to the gorund, i will be the first one they come running to. why? because i would love to do it, i hate cops.

    or most authority figures, once ive seen them as incompetent. so act competent and we'll be nice. don't, and we'll rip your throat out metaphorically by peeing on the doorhandle of your truck.

    yes, im nice. ^_^

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    what is essential is invisible to the eye fox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mustachio
    estp, on the other hand, would act out his mate's every vengeful fantasy (calling esfp a dried up bitch and whatnot, making infp cum real, REAL loud (i know i heard them once)).
    eww!
    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    betas should be kept in zoos for children to stare and throw pop corn at.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall
    Quote Originally Posted by mustachio
    estp, on the other hand, would act out his mate's every vengeful fantasy (calling esfp a dried up bitch and whatnot, making infp cum real, REAL loud (i know i heard them once)).
    eww!
    lol slightly perverted


    constantly whining about not having a boyfriend and having to endure sleepless nights because of the estp-infp sexual romps.

    had a roomate who did that, except they had a boyfriend he just didnt live there and i guess she isn't loud when they do it?

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    I just thought it was nasty that anyone would get orgasms from their boyfriend talking shit to their friends. ew.
    Nobody, not even the person I’m dating is going to talk like that to my friends... I would never stand for it.

    Plus, she should have had more decency than to have loud sex while her roommate was in the room (who was obviously bothered by it).
    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    betas should be kept in zoos for children to stare and throw pop corn at.

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    lol @ dipshits

    now I don't wanna read that topic but I'm sure it's something like OMG SEE ACTUALLY THEY AREN'T SO NICE
    OMG I SAW TROUGH YOU

    lol @ rural ways of thinking
    lol @ gossipers and diggers

    now guys if some of that shit which you read here makes you feel guilty about yourself duh.. just stop reading it.
    http://forum.socionix.com

    I don't see what's so important about the possibility of extraterrestrial life. It's just more people to declare war on.

    EVERYONE PLZ CONTINUE TO UPLOAD INFINITE AMOUNT OF PICS OF "CUTE" CATS AND PUPPIES. YOU KNOW WE GIVE A SHIT!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by indigoroom
    lol @ dipshits

    now I don't wanna read that topic but I'm sure it's something like OMG SEE ACTUALLY THEY AREN'T SO NICE
    OMG I SAW TROUGH YOU
    You are evil (I like it )
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    evil INFps are the latest trend!
    http://forum.socionix.com

    I don't see what's so important about the possibility of extraterrestrial life. It's just more people to declare war on.

    EVERYONE PLZ CONTINUE TO UPLOAD INFINITE AMOUNT OF PICS OF "CUTE" CATS AND PUPPIES. YOU KNOW WE GIVE A SHIT!!

  39. #39
    I'm back, assholes! Herzy's Avatar
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    lolololololololol
    , Se-sub
    8w8-3w8-7w8 sx/sx

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    This thread is actually making me consider that my sister could be INFp. Her ESTp husband and her don't have a healthy relationship, but that is due to his emotional and psychological problems. My sister definitely seems to want a mate who will be all Se and fight her battles for her.

    She's totally ISFp by VI though. She was also with an ESTj for like a year, on and off. Their relationship was horrible though. I set her up with the ESTp just to get her away from the ESTj.
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

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