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Thread: Supervision relations: you can do x, so why can't you use it for y?

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    Default Supervision relations: you can do x, so why can't you use it for y?

    Here is how I've come to view supervision relations.


    Supervisor: I respect their use of (my creative function), but why can't they use it for (my leading function)? They are (negative traits of people who are bad at my leading function)


    Over-exposed supervisee: I spend all this energy on (my leading function), but if I can't use it for (my vulnerable function), what's the point? I'm so (negative traits of people who are bad at my vulnerable function)


    How this works out in the 16 particular cases:


    ILE on LSI:
    I respect the consistency and coherence in their words and actions.


    So why can't they use that to discover new truths about life and people?


    They seem so closed-minded and inflexible.




    LSI on SEE:
    I respect their commanding presence and ability to push through.


    So why can't they use that to create and advance a fair and consistent worldview?


    They seem so flighty and random.




    SEE on EII:
    I respect their relationship-building abilities and emotional depth.


    So why can't they use that to get what they want from their life and other people?


    They seem so passive and afraid.




    EII on ILE:
    I respect their sophisticated insights into life, people, and the big picture.


    So why can't they use that to build and maintain interpersonal harmony?


    They seem so tactless and out-of-bounds.




    LII on IEE:
    I respect their sophisticated insights into life, people, and the big picture.


    So why can't they use that to create and advance a fair and consistent worldview?


    They seem so flighty and random.




    IEE on ESI:
    I respect their relationship-building abilities and emotional depth.


    So why can't they use that to gain insight into life and society?


    They seem so closed-minded and inflexible.




    ESI on SLE:
    I respect their commanding presence and ability to push through.


    So why can't they use that to build and maintain interpersonal harmony?


    They seem so tactless and out-of-bounds.




    SLE on LII:
    I respect the consistency and coherence in their words and actions.


    So why can't they use that to get what they want from their life and other people?


    They seem so passive and afraid.




    ESE on SLI:
    I respect their detail-oriented good taste and physical awareness.


    So why can't they use that to create their desired emotional atmosphere?


    They seem so dry and uninvolved.




    SLI on LIE:
    I respect their pragmatic quick thinking and objective goal-orientedness.


    So why can't they use that to establish a sustainable equilibrium in their own life, home, and body?


    They seem so stressed and un-centered.




    LIE on IEI:
    I respect their prudent wisdom and their sense of how events will unfold.


    So why can't they use that to actively solve problems and achieve goals?


    They seem so sluggish and ineffective.




    IEI on ESE:
    I respect their ability to emotionally impact those around them.


    So why can't they use that to act appropriately within the narratives surrounding them?


    They seem so blind and directionless.




    SEI on EIE:
    I respect their ability to emotionally impact those around them.


    So why can't they use that to establish a sustainable equilibrium in their own life, home, and body?


    They seem so stressed and un-centered.




    EIE on ILI:
    I respect their prudent wisdom and their sense of how events will unfold.


    So why can't they use that to create their desired emotional atmosphere?


    They seem so dry and uninvolved.




    ILI on LSE:
    I respect their pragmatic quick thinking and objective goal-orientedness.


    So why can't they use that to act appropriately within the narratives surrounding them?


    They seem so blind and directionless.




    LSE on SEI:
    I respect their detail-oriented good taste and physical awareness.


    So why can't they use that to actively solve problems and achieve goals?


    They seem so sluggish and ineffective.

    Does that make sense?

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    silke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by akuney View Post
    IEI on ESE:
    I respect their ability to emotionally impact those around them.
    So why can't they use that to act appropriately within the narratives surrounding them?
    They seem so blind and directionless.
    ...
    Does that make sense?
    I don't think I've ever thought of ESEs as being "blind" and "directionless". As extraverts they are quite aware of what is going on around them. Being EJ temperament and Je-leads they also have quite a sense of direction in their daily lives. They don't seem to put their everyday experiences into a broader context of their previous experiences and think about their sequential progression, and they struggle to arrange events along a time axis, but hm not sure how to describe this in terms of personality traits. Lacking in hindsight? whilst their foresight is also not that great?

    The set of impressions, I would think, also depends on supervisor's and supervisee's subtypes. IEI-Ni would pay more attention to the Ni polr, while IEI-Fe would have a greater need for Ti from an ESE, so these descriptions need to be slightly adjusted to make up for this.

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    Rebelondeck's Avatar
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    Supervision indicates a sort of blindness toward the direction of the supervisee so it often creates an urge to try to correct but this doesn't mean that the other approach won't work for him/her. Your questions refer to outcomes, which aren't relevant. Note that the perception of a shortcoming is usually one-sided.

    a.k.a. I/O

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    I think EII's like the ability to dismantle everything on highly conceptual level core and from there to reconstruct things (=good high level improvisation). It also dismantles relationships by being blind to them which generates a problem in their minds that goes too far.
    Sol mb F type due to his inability to think alternatives.


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    @akuney that's exactly how I feel about LIEs.

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    My relationship with one of my best friends sounds like the IEE-LII one. He's said many times he respects my arguments and intelligence and thinks I have good insight, but at the same time he's kind of condescending about it and tends to criticize me whenever I'm being illogical (in his eyes) or whatever, which gets annoying. He described me as "chaotic" or some synonym on many occasions.

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    this thread:

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    That is how I see IEIs, though I tend to keep my mouth shut about it.


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    I don’t see LIIs as passive and afraid in a bad way. It’s not what bothers me or would make me look down on them. I have IEIs as my dual after all.

    It’s more that I see them as a bit sperg and naive, although, they do have better Fi than me so they have better relations to people than I do and I can’t help but acknowledge this (also, stronger dimensionality with other things that I value, such as Ni which I also seek). Also, LIIs with their Si HA (coupled with Ti leading too) can be incredibly stubborn and resilient; if you think about it that’s another way of being forceful and strong. I actually cannot affect them in a normal way with my Se. It’s like they can acknowledge it, but not really register it because I’m not strong enough for them or something (why I think the demonstrative is stronger than leading function in a way).

    The supervision dynamic is fed I think by the fact that the supervisee tends to either idolize the supervisor or have a sour grapes reaction to their abilities. Also, the inability of the supervisee to respond “normally” to the supervisor’s lead IE creates confusion and awkwardness. However, with a longer period of interaction, each party can usually see that the supervisor has their own follies and the supervisee their own strengths and effective way of carrying out their lives, and the interaction awkwardness is nothing personal.

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    I respect the consistency and coherence in their words and actions.”

    This isn’t what I respect about LIIs, or in any case I don’t think of it in this way. I think that would be the POV of someone with Ti as their leading or dual seeking function.

    What I respect about LIIs is their usually great logical thinking abilities, and their ability and interest in, generally, following through on their words with actions and seeing things through to the end. I also respect that they are usually decent or very moral people.

    Some LIIs with developed Si HA also have amazing aesthetic capabilities.

    Also due to their resiliency and wanting things to remain in working order, they will double check things in great detail to be absolutely sure of them before making any changes. They are very dedicated in some ways like this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    It’s more that I see them as a bit sperg.
    Those words are quite likely to come out supervisor's mouth... lol
    Sol mb F type due to his inability to think alternatives.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Troll Nr 007 View Post
    Those words are quite likely to come out supervisor's mouth... lol
    Then again, they’re also likely to come out from anybody else’s about LIIs

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    Then again, they’re also likely to come out from anybody else’s about LIIs
    Umm.. yeah. LII's, .

    EII almost called me sperg but then again she kind of liked my ability to add steam into people's head department using my spergy poking ways of understanding stuff... which is not very spergy as end result.
    Sol mb F type due to his inability to think alternatives.


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    IQ over 150 vesstheastralsilky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    Supervision indicates a sort of blindness toward the direction of the supervisee so it often creates an urge to try to correct but this doesn't mean that the other approach won't work for him/her. Your questions refer to outcomes, which aren't relevant. Note that the perception of a shortcoming is usually one-sided.

    a.k.a. I/O
    This is often so very true and I'm glad you wrote this. For example, to take things further, there are many times when I perceive I have the advantage in certain abilities over my Supervisor yet he can't see it. Some things I can solve very quickly that he cannot.
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    This is not an original idea. I wrote about the creative function being a subordinate goal to the leading function some years ago.

    But I don't see it applying at the type level so much as the IM element level, aka within the psyche. We don't necessarily expect or want others to be good at our leading function for the reasons that @sbbds mentioned, i.e. we usually expect others to be dual-like (if we are "dualized", that is). If they are unresponsive to our attempts to "help" them with their vulnerable function or make them focus on it then the relationship will go sour fast.

    I can't think of any SLE that I idolized though lol.

    However I do find that mutual respect in supervision relations sometimes overshadows or outweighs the discomfort part.
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    Quote Originally Posted by akuney View Post
    LIE on IEI:
    I respect their prudent wisdom and their sense of how events will unfold.

    So why can't they use that to actively solve problems and achieve goals?

    They seem so sluggish and ineffective.
    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ave View Post
    That is how I see IEIs, though I tend to keep my mouth shut about it.
    Which is kind of interesting, since this article suggests that LIEs perceive IEIs as being some of the "slowest thinking types", while the IEI perceives the LIE as being almost their dual.

    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...-Communication

    Definitely what I'm seeing atm with this LIE female friend dating an IEI male, though there are plentiful of other reasons for why she has chosen to stick around with him.

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