Religion is good (or bad)...

[ContractedCriminalboy]

Religion is vastly good. Yes, religion can be taken too far, as every single thing imaginable can be, but that only serves to discount man, not religion. You can take a secular ideal of helping harmless animals to the extreme as it has been and even the pursuit of freedom to an extreme. In terms of conflict and extremism, secular ideologies, philosophies and politics, lead to conflict and extremism as well to greater extents with most of the deadliest wars having nothing to do with religion at all. So this should show the flaws of man, not religion itself, leading to such troubles.

[Desert Financial]

Even with "Secular" Buddhism, from what you describe, it adds an overarching narrative to the whole of existence that is not falsifiable. That is still a supernatural or superhuman element.

Suffering is not fundamentally a necessary part of existence. Suffering exists because pain is overall an advantage to beings that need to avoid harm in order to prosper.

I think it is fear of the unknown rather than the state of impermanence causing suffering due to the severance of attachments.

Secular Buddhism doesn't involve the supernatural or superhuman. You're conflating it with other religions. Suffering, or more accurately, dissatisfaction, is an inherent aspect of life because human beings have fundamental needs, (eg. the need for food, nutrition, water, shelter, socialization), and human beings are hardwired to seek out what meets those needs. Essentially, dissatisfaction stems from failure to meet these needs; even when needs are met momentarily, the "grass is always greener" mindset slips in and dissatisfaction occurs again. So if dissatisfaction comes from "fear of the unknown", it's because you wish something was known, and you are failing to meet that need. So if you detach from this form of striving, then your happiness will increase.

There's a substantial body of evidence supporting benefits of Buddhism cataloged in Robert Wright's ironically titled book "Why Buddhism is True." https://www.amazon.com/Why-Buddhism-.../dp/1439195455 (ironically titled because intellectualist truth, as philosophers have coined it, really requires attachment to concepts, and attachment incurs suffering, as we've already discussed). And of course, I wouldn't say anything about it unless I had already experimented with it and used my own mind to discern its accuracy in my own life. Neurologists have also produced evidence regarding the changes meditation incurs on the brain, such as increased density of gray-matter in the hippocampus after sustained practice of meditation. So, according to the evidence, the effects of meditation exceed a simple placebo effect.

[The Reality Denialist]

Very handy way to dictate people. You could basically externalize the responsibility to a some sort of target. Let it be god, people etc. In all actuality people do practice "religion" all over the place. Open your eyes.


Yes, I told this to you. Now. Follow me.

[ContractedCriminalboy]

I once attended a Mormon church service at the request of a family friend. The main speaker was this red-haired IEI girl with tattoos, who not too long into her speech, starting crying hysterically while extolling the grace and beauty of her path to God and what it meant to her to have found such peace. Then I learned about Mormon "life policies," and how a guy who was waiting to get married to his girlfriend would, as a substitute, simply watch porn (as in, just watch). Or, to give a more general example, my dad told me about this idiot he had to fire once, who, when questioned on his misuse of company funds, clasped his hands in complacent glory, and said, "I answer to a higher power." So, I think the quote is effectively bullshit. Religion will do whatever you want it to for you if you're a good person; and if you're a bad person, what does it even matter?

Yeah people do cry a lot when they give their testimonies, it was outputting to me to at first but got used to it. I really don't get what you mean by "life policies". Are you saying that some random guy said he did that or that it's a thing we all do? Because the latter is false, porn is strongly prohibited, doesn't matter if you spank the monkey or not. The guy who was fired was indeed an idiot, because higher power he claimed to answer to has very clear doctrine on theft. I find the "only God can judge me" crowds to always be the least faithful of any given church, tend to believe in the modern "hippy Jesus" interpretation, and probably couldn't tell you a single commandment other than "judge not" without even knowing the context of the statement.

[End]

It's not good or bad, it's necessary. If you reject "God" in the Christian sense of the term, you have in truth just embraced Satan and boy oh boy does it fucking show in every instance I've tried to test that theory against. Even many a Pagan "get it" on some level even if I cannot convince them that their paganism points to Christ.

The hardline Atheist's are the worst though. That absolute deterministic materialism. I mean, these fuckers think that we're all just a bunch of moist robots predetermined from birth to do what we do because genetics and neuroscience. I mean, if any of you think I'm a fucking Nazi, just contemplate what I've just mentioned means if true. Genetic Code=You. You are what your genes say, nothing more or otherwise period. If you do not instantly feel a sense of righteous indignation and revulsion upon hearing such a charge well... I might just have to think that the Inquisition dindu nuffin' wrong!

[strrrng]

Yeah people do cry a lot when they give their testimonies, it was outputting to me to at first but got used to it. I really don't get what you mean by "life policies". Are you saying that some random guy said he did that or that it's a thing we all do? Because the latter is false, porn is strongly prohibited, doesn't matter if you spank the monkey or not. The guy who was fired was indeed an idiot, because higher power he claimed to answer to has very clear doctrine on theft. I find the "only God can judge me" crowds to always be the least faithful of any given church, tend to believe in the modern "hippy Jesus" interpretation, and probably couldn't tell you a single commandment other than "judge not" without even knowing the context of the statement.

Yeah, I don't mind the crying bit, or even passion in general; I've had my own share of spiritually-charged emotional experiences.

By life policies I meant what you say—banning premarital sex, coffee, alcohol, profanity, etc. I mentioned the guy because I thought it was a funny example of how repressing something always leads to it coming back in some form, and that this phenomenon can (not necessarily—not trying to insult your faith) accompany heavy religious belief.

And the guy my dad fired was Christian, I think, but one of those new age "hippy" ones like you say, who liked the whole, 'do whatever I want and repent and eat on Sunday' thing, lol.

[consentingadult]

Faith is good. Religion (i.e. institutionalized faith) is bad.

[Tonatiuh]

^ Just something I overheard. Do you agree or disagree with it?

Disagree. It's about streamlining people not about what's god or bad. Also, pedophilia.

[Not A Communist Shill]

Secular Buddhism doesn't involve the supernatural or superhuman. You're conflating it with other religions. Suffering, or more accurately, dissatisfaction, is an inherent aspect of life because human beings have fundamental needs, (eg. the need for food, nutrition, water, shelter, socialization), and human beings are hardwired to seek out what meets those needs. Essentially, dissatisfaction stems from failure to meet these needs; even when needs are met momentarily, the "grass is always greener" mindset slips in and dissatisfaction occurs again. So if dissatisfaction comes from "fear of the unknown", it's because you wish something was known, and you are failing to meet that need. So if you detach from this form of striving, then your happiness will increase.

There's a substantial body of evidence supporting benefits of Buddhism cataloged in Robert Wright's ironically titled book "Why Buddhism is True." https://www.amazon.com/Why-Buddhism-.../dp/1439195455 (ironically titled because intellectualist truth, as philosophers have coined it, really requires attachment to concepts, and attachment incurs suffering, as we've already discussed). And of course, I wouldn't say anything about it unless I had already experimented with it and used my own mind to discern its accuracy in my own life. Neurologists have also produced evidence regarding the changes meditation incurs on the brain, such as increased density of gray-matter in the hippocampus after sustained practice of meditation. So, according to the evidence, the effects of meditation exceed a simple placebo effect.

I think what makes a person happy is generally very simple, and that dissociating yourself from worldly enjoyments is not necessarily going to make you a happier person. To me, that approach sounds like focusing on minimizing suffering rather than maximizing happiness.

People fearing the unknown (e.g. fearing a time when they may not be as happy as they are now, or fearing a time when they are dead) do not make their lives better by not preparing themselves for the unknown.

Striving to make things better has been highly important for making things better. Acting as though the causes of suffering should be ignored does not make the world a better place.