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Thread: Trauma and effect on type - personal musings

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    Default Trauma and effect on type - personal musings

    Last edited by Venus Rose; 12-03-2018 at 03:09 PM.


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    IME stress or traumatic events make one cling more to ego functions and less able to balance them and act from other functions 3 4 5 & 6.
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    I think it may depend on what your ego functions actually are, and whether the trauma occurred during your development, and many other things. For example, in PTSD proper, narrowing your circle of contacts and having a foreclosed sense of the future both can occur. In my own case, this has possibly interfered with my ego functions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by vesstheastralsilky View Post
    IME stress or traumatic events make one cling more to ego functions and less able to balance them and act from other functions 3 4 5 & 6.
    I diagree, clinging to either ego or super ego functions can happen, and both are terrible for a person. It's true some functions are thrown to hell.
    I would even go as far as saying that a person can cling to both ego and super ego depending on situations, oh wonderful unconsistancy, which can create an even bigger fracture in the sense of self. IME.
    @Venus Rose this made me think, I can't agree or disagree with what you said about ID and super ID, though I think it's an interesting idea to look at. Thank you for sharing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Venus Rose View Post
    Developmental trauma often causes a tremendous amount of stress on the self, the sense of it, and the development of it. So in that way, it will likely affect the personality type, I would think.
    Dramatic traumas aside, the adaptations required to get by well as an adult consistently well in a given society may vary a lot from type to type. Some types might have it easier than others and have to adapt less than being themselves. My own research has shown LSIs to type ISTJ consistently on type tests whereas those of other types tend to have variable results. That could be due to poor test bias or perhaps societies let LSIs be themselves most easily here in the USA.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wonderland View Post
    I diagree, clinging to either ego or super ego functions can happen, and both are terrible for a person. It's true some functions are thrown to hell.
    I would even go as far as saying that a person can cling to both ego and super ego depending on situations, oh wonderful unconsistancy, which can create an even bigger fracture in the sense of self. IME.
    @Venus Rose this made me think, I can't agree or disagree with what you said about ID and super ID, though I think it's an interesting idea to look at. Thank you for sharing.
    No I actually do agree with you somewhat but view it as a stage. Only in extreme cases does one perhaps cling to the ego and can't rely on other aspects of the psyche anymore because one has become exhausted and needs basic natural input to feed on again.
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    Lacking context sucks. @vesstheastralsilky @Venus Rose

    Unrelated: I wonder if having been encouraged or discouraged to use ego functions could affect which of ego or super ego gets the spotlight?

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    I cant give any useful input in regard to typology in a broader sense but for myself and in extension my type it has affected my emotional development.
    There has been instances where I go blank and 'see red' so to speak, I've been told that my pupils have expanded to the point of blotting out my irises.
    Nothing like that has happened recently but I can still feel it coming on if I am put in a situation where I am unable to defend myself the way I want when someone slights me.

    The most fascinating part of it though is how it has made it's mark on my sexual preferences, making me completely dominant and somewhat sadistic. (Don't confuse that what abuse though, which is something completely different.) From what I understand about the origin of fetishism it's often correlated with turning a need upside down.
    If you've been made to feel powerless, being powerful can become your fetish etc. A phenomenon like that will much likely integrate well with socionics.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wonderland View Post
    Lacking context sucks. @vesstheastralsilky @Venus Rose

    Unrelated: I wonder if having been encouraged or discouraged to use ego functions could affect which of ego or super ego gets the spotlight?
    Oh definitely, I think so. My father supervises me as an LSE and the more I act Te the more possible it was to coexist. When I am getting by yet not happy, I will test as my SuperEgo INTP easily on type tests that read like MBTI. But when I am happiest it is easy to identify as ISFP. And jobwise, if left to my own devices I would socially be a starving artist... Unless I was lucky enough to get famous when I was young. So fears about selfprovision prompt one to develop skills to get on with other types who naturally fit the economic models for work better... At least for me and folks like me.
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    I should add that is not without significant impairment to my own potential for happiness and stress levels, regardless of how well I develop other functions. There is still a heart core to type and still a balance to ideally be maintained.
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    This will depend on the type IMO, and it's not really related to specific functions. For example, an Se ego type is more likely to lash out or have inappropriately violent behavior, types with higher Ni will tend to withdraw or become paralyzed with inaction, etc.
    The higher, the fewer

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    I reflected a few minutes before I wrote this...
    The path with my own emotional problems started probably at my birth. I don't remember my own birth of course, but my parents told me that I could have died at my birth. There were serious complications and I barely survived it. I don't know the exact details but the oxygen in my blood dropped to a critical low level. Luckily the medical personal managed to prevent lasting damage to my neuronal system.
    Also some bad injuries happend in my childhood; e.g. fell down stairs made of concrete
    The consequences are: My self-preservation instinct is hightend, I try to minimize physical danger for myself.
    I perceive minor threats in the environment stronger than they are.
    It took me many years to deal with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WinnieW View Post
    I reflected a few minutes before I wrote this...
    The path with my own emotional problems started probably at my birth. I don't remember my own birth of course, but my parents told me that I could have died at my birth. There were serious complications and I barely survived it. I don't know the exact details but the oxygen in my blood dropped to a critical low level. Luckily the medical personal managed to prevent lasting damage to my neuronal system.
    Also some bad injuries happend in my childhood; e.g. fell down stairs made of concrete
    The consequences are: My self-preservation instinct is hightend, I try to minimize physical danger for myself.
    I perceive minor threats in the environment stronger than they are.
    It took me many years to deal with it.
    :sad: So sorry for your misfortune.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Remiel View Post
    If you've been made to feel powerless, being powerful can become your fetish etc. A phenomenon like that will much likely integrate well with socionics.
    I remember reading about the opposite, men who had power in work, family settings ftom a young age who go to dominatrix. Humans are fascinating.

    Quote Originally Posted by vesstheastralsilky
    Oh definitely, I think so. My father supervises me as an LSE and the more I act Te the more possible it was to coexist. When I am getting by yet not happy, I will test as my SuperEgo INTP easily on type tests that read like MBTI. But when I am happiest it is easy to identify as ISFP. And jobwise, if left to my own devices I would socially be a starving artist... Unless I was lucky enough to get famous when I was young. So fears about selfprovision prompt one to develop skills to get on with other types who naturally fit the economic models for work better... At least for me and folks like me.

    Explains why you're off for a SEI. I lived a similar thing with my mother, whom I cannot type. I think she lived the same with her parents and is all over the place too.

    Last edited by wonderland; 12-01-2018 at 10:05 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vesstheastralsilky View Post
    :sad: So sorry for your misfortune.
    Thank you.
    I ask myself if that early event in my life may have altered my type. I was helpless and unable to prevent what happend to me, does this made me a -PoLR type?
    Force was useless, so I looked for an other way to deal with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wonderland View Post
    I remember reading about the opposite, men who had power in work, family settings ftom a young age who go to dominatrix. Humans are fascinating.
    That's not the opposite, it's the exact thing I said. They have power, they desire giving it and responsibility up by going to a dominatrix. Making them sexually submissive.
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    There are views that dynamic types have more susceptibility to become unstable as they have troubles when it comes to balancing themselves whereas static types have easier time to gather themselves together.
    You can suggest an alternative type based on video found in HERE

    extrospection > introspection



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    Quote Originally Posted by Remiel View Post
    That's not the opposite, it's the exact thing I said. They have power, they desire giving it and responsibility up by going to a dominatrix. Making them sexually submissive.
    It depends on the angle you take. Same kind of happenstances, looking for what you lacked, but opposite thing lacked, haha.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wonderland View Post
    It depends on the angle you take. Same kind of happenstances, looking for what you lacked, but opposite thing lacked, haha.
    Seems pretty straight forward to me. I think you're twisting it around one too many times in your noggin. Anything can be angled if you have no interest in being right.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    For example, an Se ego type is more likely to lash out or have inappropriately violent behavior, types with higher Ni will tend to withdraw or become paralyzed with inaction, etc.
    Yep.

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    Short stress generally has no long time consequences.
    Long problems lead to distress and exhaustion. In a state exhaustion people supress expression of weak (especially nonvalued) functions, what accentuates the type.

    > The individual will likely not seek out those that could really help him (super-id block), focusing on their weaker functions

    Should be the opposite. Accentuation of the type should make stronger IR effects and hence the attraction to the people of good IR will be stronger too. Also should be arised the wish of external support in superid region.

    > All of this will cause added stress, including headaches, nightmares, feelings of anguish and being unable to deal with what one is going through.

    More supressed weak functions manifest in wilder way and disorganise the normal conscious work as neurotic disorders of different degrees.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    It's not possible to overuse the ego block. What happens is that the lack of energy does not permit activation of the superid block, and the superego jump-starts the id, contradicting the ego.

    A split personality develops, with two parts: the self and anti-self. The ego and superid, versus the id and superego. Destruction of the ego results in psychosis.

    The solution to trauma in the context of type is ego re-education. In other words, teaching people to be themselves again.

    The apparent overuse of ego functions is really just an attempt by the psyche to maintain control over itself. It's a re-assertion in the face of stress. It's not really a type dynamic but an assertion of the ego with added force. "If it won't work in first gear, throw it into second and see what happens."

    Maintaining the ego under stress often requires paradoxical activity that's kind of difficult to put into words. The attempt to increase and maintain internal tension to reinforce the ego can squelch its activity and allow the id-superego loop to persist. So the solution is often to let go completely even though it feels like you'll lose yourself in doing so. The principle is illustrated in Taoism through the idea of wu-wei, or action through non-action. It's also illustrated in mythology through the dying and rising god myths. It's also in Star Wars and Harry Potter and a bunch of other fictional stories.

    This stuff is actually pretty complicated, but that's the basic idea. Very basic. There are lots of other parts to the process that make it work in practice.
    Last edited by Aramas; 12-02-2018 at 03:56 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Venus Rose View Post
    @Aramas yes! You understood what I was trying to say
    I've talked about this before in other threads, so it's not a new idea to me. It's something I've been learning over the past year or so. I've been reading various occultists and learning more about Socionics.

    The first question you can ask is, "Who am I?" That one can take a really long time by itself. And you never really get the answer intellectually, but you do become yourself.

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    Block wise:
    Ego. Bit hard to describe it directly as it seems to the state to be in. Automatic.

    I have certainly tried to grasp my id-block. Ignoring part has caused some inertia. OK, I have imagination that has moving elements in it and always has lots of some sort of vague cautioning moments. I consider it quite active. The demonstrative part of it always says I can handle it or train it with ease. I have particularly no objections doing it. However it seems like being productive with it is a turn off.

    Super-ego. Well, I hate lots of stuff in role. It is like I carry through some obligations with it and I do not want to strain others for not using it which is probably my main motive. Let's get over with it. I also don't want to appear completely out of resourcefulness in here. PoLR, that is the place of partial blindness when I use my creative. I try to be reasonable and I consider it as a place to gain some control. That is mainly in relation other people and not what society says. I might become bit paralyzed by direct feedback in here.

    super-id: OK, cool. Mobilizing comes to forefront when there are triggering elements that might require it or just for shit and giggles.

    So, I think I might become quite pissed off or conflicted if I had to be a person who completely lives off from role and id. Subtype might give some difference in here. Like I have seen SEI-N who nags about being optimal with Ni procedures and seems to be quite OK with role but is also quite sterile with light use of ego.
    You can suggest an alternative type based on video found in HERE

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    Sometimes the type "takes over" the personality. The person "becomes his type". It's as if the type itself is a complex that becomes independent from the rest of the psyche. I think this happens naturally when we work, but then afterwards we usually go back to our real selves again. The point here is that the type is not the whole personality and accentuation of the type is a neurosis in itself.

    It's just something I've obseved, and I think anybody can observe. It happens when stressed or maybe from trauma also.


    Quote Originally Posted by Venus Rose View Post
    I

    The Super-ego block is specially sensitive to trauma, abuse, and other psychological injuries. The easiest way to wound a person is by hitting them in their vulnerable function(s), since the individual is unable to recognize what is appropriate or not, in this block. That is, they are unable to recognize abuse for what it is. They feel that the abuser is justified in what they are doing, specially if the abuser insists so.
    Part of this I would put under suggestive function. This is where we are bad at evaluating stuff and can easily get influenced. The PoLR on the other hand is very sensitive and we can sometimes spend lots of time trying to digest things. But overload of PoLR is definitely recognized and people often withdraw from those situations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    Sometimes the type "takes over" the personality. The person "becomes his type". It's as if the type itself is a complex that becomes independent from the rest of the psyche.
    Something not uncommon on the type of forums such as this one. I've noticed that people tend to overidentify with their type and then in turn act the way they think their type would act. Maby because they are afraid of having their self typing contested. Thereby defeating the whole puropse of typing to begin with, all for some cultivated facade and self idealization.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Remiel View Post
    Something not uncommon on the type of forums such as this one. I've noticed that people tend to overidentify with their type and then in turn act the way they think their type would act. Maby because they are afraid of having their self typing contested. Thereby defeating the whole puropse of typing to begin with, all for some cultivated facade and self idealization.
    Alternatively, I think it’s natural for people to cultivate a vision of their future selves. It happens IRL too and I don’t think it’s unnatural or unhealthy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    Alternatively, I think it’s natural for people to cultivate a vision of their future selves. It happens IRL too and I don’t think it’s unnatural or unhealthy.
    I never said anything about it being unhealthy, however I think it's pathetic. Do what thou wilt.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Remiel View Post
    I never said anything about it being unhealthy, however I think it's pathetic. Do what thou wilt.
    It’s not pathetic if you’re having a vision of an improved self that you’re aspiring towards.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    It’s not pathetic if you’re having a vision of an improved self that you’re aspiring towards.
    Agreed. I do that all the time. Through different methods involving manifestation through chaos magick. But that's a different subject matter. What you're talking about one might even say that people with borderline personality disorder are the masters of. That's having a liquid self and just chameleon through life without any real substance.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Remiel View Post
    Agreed. I do that all the time. Through different methods involving manifestation through chaos magick. But that's a different subject matter. What you're talking about one might even say that people with borderline personality disorder are the masters of. That's having a liquid self and just chameleon through life without any real substance.
    It’s not what I was talking about. But if it was what you were, okay.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    It’s not what I was talking about. But if it was what you were, okay.
    If that's so then you misunderstood me from the get go.
    "The society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools." ―Thucydides



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    Quote Originally Posted by Remiel View Post
    If that's so then you misunderstood me from the get go.
    Communicate what you specifically mean better next time then instead of complaining.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    Communicate what you specifically mean better next time then instead of complaining.
    I should probably do that, seeing how it must be harder for you to improve your understanding of the english language.

    "The society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools." ―Thucydides



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    Quote Originally Posted by Remiel View Post
    I should probably do that, seeing how it must be harder for you to improve your understanding of the english language.
    English is my native language. I happen to know it isn’t yours.

    I was just adding my own perspective as a tangent to your comment. You didn’t talk about the people in your original comment as if you meant people who had personality disorders. You even said that you didn’t mean unhealthy people in your next reply to me on top of that. What I said echoed that at first, but then in your next post you changed your mind?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    English is my native language. I happen to know it isn’t yours.

    I was just adding my own perspective as a tangent to your comment. You didn’t talk about the people in your original comment as if you meant people who had personality disorders. You even said that you didn’t mean unhealthy people in your next reply to me on top of that.
    So you're saying that everyone who speak a language natively is automatically better at it than everyone who got it as a secondary one across the board?

    Your tangent was inaccurate or at the very least misplaced. Did you feel called out cuz I expressed my displeasure with people who are fake? You seem intent on pinning awards on future achievements while white washing people who are pretenders.
    "The society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools." ―Thucydides



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    ^Good writing is probably an acquired skill in every language.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Remiel View Post
    So you're saying that everyone who speak a language natively is automatically better at it than everyone who got it as a secondary one across the board?

    Your tangent was inaccurate or at the very least misplaced. Did you feel called out cuz I expressed my displeasure with people who are fake? You seem intent on pinning awards on future achievements while white washing people who are pretenders.
    No but I’m pretty sure you made that comment just because I’m Asian lol. I teach English as well btw and I write and translate/edit academic and official documents in English for work.

    It wasnt misplaced. I was literally just wanting to make the comment that people playing make believe or pretending is to an extent natural and doesn’t just happen on forums like these but in IRL too. It wasn’t to contest what you said, but to add to it to broaden the perspective on the issue. There may be some people doing it unhealthily as you later brought up but that’s a different issue. Reread the conversation and you’ll see I was simply following you were saying and doing this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    No but I’m pretty sure you made that comment just because I’m Asian lol. I teach English as well btw and I write and translate/edit academic and official documents in English for work.

    It wasnt misplaced. I was literally just wanting to make the comment that people playing make believe or pretending is to an extent natural and doesn’t just happen on forums like these but in IRL too. It wasn’t to contest what you said, but to add to it to broaden the perspective on the issue. There may be some people doing it unhealthily as you later brought up but that’s a different issue. Reread the conversation and you’ll see I was simply following you were saying and doing this.
    I'm not impressed.

    The point is that I think it's pathetic to fake your persona based upon stereotypical reasoning. You think it's a way to better ones self. I disagree. What a flat understanding one must have of personality to consider it useful.

    Also, about the asian bit. I wasn't commenting on your driving skills.
    "The society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools." ―Thucydides



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    Quote Originally Posted by Remiel View Post
    I'm not impressed.

    The point is that I think it's pathetic to fake your persona based upon stereotypical reasoning. You think it's a way to better ones self. I disagree. What a flat understanding one must have of personality to consider it useful.
    It’s too bad you had to act like an insulting, neurotic little bitch to finally get your point across after all this time, after changing your stance multiple times too.

    I don’t think it’s bad or unnatural, up to a point mind you if it also comes with self-awareness. “Fake it till you make it” is a thing for a reason. However, it’s probably true that most people on the internet who are doing it in a way that stands out as unnatural are probably doing it unhealthily.

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