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Thread: Dialectical-Algorithmic Cognition and You

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    Default Dialectical-Algorithmic Cognition and You

    Are you an EIE, ILI, LSE, or SEI?

    ​If so, how does this form of cognition manifest in your thinking?

    From Gulenko.

    Dialectical-Algorithmic Cognition

    The second cognitive form is of particular interest: it is synthetic, negative, and deductive. The working name of this style is Dialectical-Algorithmic. Representatives of this style are Sociotypes EIE, ILI, LSE, SEI (ENFj, INTp, ESTj, ISFp, respectively)

    As Dynamics, these types synthesize associational images. As Evolutionary types, they increase deductive complexity of them. As Negativists, they work well with contradictions and paradoxes.

    Intellectual Sphere

    The essential distinguishing feature of the Dialectical style, is a view of the universe as a unified struggle of opposites. In speech it often uses syntactic constructions "if-then-else", the predictive branches of a developing process. Within limits, the Dialectic strives to find an intermediate point of dynamic equilibrium between contrasting extremes. Dialectical cognition is born from the colliding flow and counterflow of thought, the consciousness and unconsciousness. Thinkers of this style are characterized by an express inclination towards the synthesis of opposites, the removal of contradictions, which they so keenly perceive.

    Its advantages are obvious: it is the most subtle and flexible style. It can easily switch to an opposite direction, and possesses predictive ability, accompanied by an effective type of associative memory. Algorithmic thinking is also good at solving problems of classification, given their gift for recognizing complex patterns. Beyond the circumstantial conditions of a problem, it perceives a fundamental algorithm for its solution.

    According to Aristotle, Dialecticals prognostic thinking explains reality on the basis of purposive causes. For example, the cause of a sculpture is an idea of it in the head of the sculptor. The main role is played by a program, the intention of the creator. Thus, it can be considered teleological, and hence the most 'religious' in its essential thinking. Many scholars of this type sooner or later come to faith (not necessarily a church confessional).

    Social Sphere

    Historically, the first representative of a Dialectical worldview would be Heraclitus. Epitomizing the Dynamic dichotomy, he was of the opinion that "you cannot enter the same river twice" because whenever you enter again, the flow is already of different water. In more recent times it developed into Hegel's comprehensive theory of a rational system. Since Dialectical cognition, compared to other styles, is the most oriented towards creative intention, it invariably leads to ideas of a creator, an absolute, a cosmic intelligence, etc.

    Two of its representatives—EIE and ILI—are usually recognized in society as the most intellectual types. They form the backbone of intellectual elites, expert clubs, esoteric groups, etc. They are the best computer programmers, knowing better than other types how to work with moving structures—algorithms. Algorithmic diagrams consist of blocks and arrows showing the order of transitions, branches, and loop cycles. The crux of a program is its dynamic structure—pointers, rather than blocks. The formula "if-then-else" is, in essence, the core of any algorithm.

    The disadvantages in Dialectical-Algorithmic cognition include instability and uncertainty. Algorithmics suffer from difficulty in making choices and embracing unambiguous decisions. This thinking is more comparable to a symphony of flowing interwoven imagery, rather than a mechanism of clearly established instruction sets. Another problem is increased criticality, which can be so high that it incurs self-destruction, plunging them into danger of total detachment from reality, and leading to mental disorders, especially in cases of hereditary predisposition.

    Psychological Sphere

    The psyche of Dialectical types is most prone to transformations. From a psychological point of view, an unstable oscillating psyche is fertile ground for suggestibility. Occasionally Dialectics lose control over the parallel streams of thought fluctuating in their heads. They need only tune out their internal oscillation between freedom of choice and fatalism, and reinforce the latter. Doctors know that a small but accurately timed shock can throw the heart into a state of fibrillation. Likewise, a successfully directed signal at the right time can throw the Dialectical psyche into a chaotic state.

    The EIE Sociotype has a very suitable psyche for suggestive influence. It is characterized by so-called moments of imprint vulnerability. In these moments an intense suggestion is triggered—an imprint—the prerequisites of which are a state of extreme fear, confusion, or surprise. A 'No Exit' sign suddenly seen by a person of Algorithmic psyche at a time of severe emotional turmoil, may catalyze a decision about suicide. Exploiting this paradoxical nature of Dialectical types, shock therapy is capable of completely reprogramming their conception of reality, including core value judgments.
    A certain, although rare sign of Dialectical cognition—accidents that lead to states similar to a deep trance or coma, followed by sudden enlightenment or the appearance of esoteric abilities.

    The other version is slow suggestion, primarily based on entrainment through rhythmic vocalization and/or sound, multiple repetitions of the same phrase with variation. Variations in this case are particularly significant, working akin to the chorus in a song. Gradually a trance state is reached—external relaxation with internal concentration. The greater the monotony, the sooner a deep trance is reached. Hence why some people rapidly settle down and fall asleep under a monotone 'bubnezh' TV.

    Scientific Sphere

    Dialectical thinking best corresponds to the quantum-probabilistic worldview of modern physics. According to this paradigm, there are no immutable laws, only tendencies and probabilities. Quantum Mechanics is built on the counterintuitive principle of particle-wave duality, according to which microcosmic objects behave as particles and as waves. Two of the 20th century's greatest physicists disputed over this view—Albert Einstein and Neils Bohr. The former defended causal-determinism as the nature of the universe, the latter advocated a probabilistic ontology. In the aftermath, Bohr won. Though apart from its historical context, the dispute makes little sense, given that these cognitive forms are dual to one other. Jung's principle of 'synchronicity' also lies within the Dialectical paradigm.

    Contemporary British mathematician Roger Penrose has suggested that the human brain uses quantum gravity as a means for intuitive insight. He's written several books ("The Emperor's New Mind" and "Shadows of the Mind") stipulating that the brain is a quantum computer, and that Aristotelian logical thinking is actually alien to human beings. If he is right, it follows that the integral type of humanity is Dialectical-Algorithmic.

    A real-life model of this thinking—double-images periodically passing into each other. Simple example: a projection onto the plane of a truncated pyramid. After examining it awhile it alternately seems convex, with the top facing to the observer, then concave, with the rear wall receding into the distance.

    One more graphical illustration of Dialectical perception. What do you see in the picture: a vase against a black background, or two facial profiles on a white background? It depends on which one for you is the background, and which is the figure. Some see a vase and the profiles turn into a dark background, others see two black profiles and the white vase goes into the background. But once a person sees both images, fluctuations of attention begin. The picture seems to pulsate: you see a vase, then the profiles. There is a dialectical exchange of background/foreground. Triggering negative reverse perspective, where distant or darkened objects are perceived more significantly than those located closer to the observer.
    Santa Claus: That probably comes from the inherent profit motive of the bourgeoisie mentality.
    Santa Claus: Even on a cold day, a Coke is refreshing.

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    fka Avebury
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    Well, this one is the other possibility.

    I relate to not being able to make up my mind about some things (at least, one thing: my own type), which relates to this style of thinking but I don't see much of it beyond that. It's true I sometimes ask myself if history goes in cycles, but at the same time, I reject fate and destiny. I believe in willpower and free will, I tend to see the creation of the universe as an unimportant question as it has no impact on my own willpower and capacity to acheive or improve my life. The idea that there are cosmic forces, especially expressed as a kind of polarity (light/ dark, male/female, fire/ice ...) is poetic but doesn't seem like it helps much from the standpoint of the evolution of the individual or of civilization.


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    Feeling fucking fantastic golden's Avatar
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    When I was about nine, I was riding in my mom’s car and thinking about the nature of love and hate and how they are placed in opposition, but this seemed incomplete to me, and I realized that the opposite of either could be indifference, because the stronger your love or the stronger your hatred, the more you cared, and then the two seeming opposites actually converged on that engagement axis.

    I tried to tell my mother I’d just realized that love and hate were very similar, and she got mad at me so I didn’t tell her why.

    I will flip back and forth among ways of seeing a question like “what is the nature of love and hate?” There is no one answer for every moment, unless it can be experienced in the enlightened state, which I do not have access to. The nature of my reality is situational and shifting. This is why every thought is predicated on the “if” of this peculiar moment.

    This is typical me. :/
    LSI: “I still can’t figure out Pinterest.”

    Me: “It’s just, like, idea boards.”

    LSI: “I don’t have ideas.”

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    Feeling fucking fantastic golden's Avatar
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    @hag 2, whyyyyyyyyyy
    LSI: “I still can’t figure out Pinterest.”

    Me: “It’s just, like, idea boards.”

    LSI: “I don’t have ideas.”

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    This style is interesting. It is like I could have parts of this.

    I'll explain:

    My conclusion could be:
    (A if x=a) or (B if x=b) or (A and B if x=c) or (0.8*A and 0.2*B if x = d) etc.
    If not settled -> needs further investigation.
    You can suggest an alternative type based on video found in HERE

    extrospection > introspection



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    One of my EIE friends likes to describe things as they're occurring without any real reference point... then if questioned about some aspect, he'll recontextualize it with something like, "Yeah, and that's how the alternatives potentiate each other" etc.

    I know most people here think he's alpha, but IMO Zizek exemplifies this tendency well with the way he continually goes back and forth between ideas and then synthesizes things at intervals (this is distinct from how, say, an ILE would do it, as with them the potentialities are expanded on for their own sake).
    4w3-5w6-8w7

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    Quote Originally Posted by hag 2 View Post
    How disagreeable to you would a typing of SLE be for Zizek? 1-10/10

    SLE isn't DA, but that's been my baseless typing for him and I'm curious of your opinion.
    1-10... like 5-6. I can see where someone would be coming from with that, it's kind of like a compromise between alpha and EIE, but having read much of his work and listened to many lectures, I can't really stray from EIE. I feel like most just type him alpha because of how sporadic and seemingly scattered he is, but if you look at the way he modulates his energy, it's actually Fe+EJ. Anyway I don't want to derail the thread but SLEs tend to divide up variables and then condense whatever context they were bringing into the situation around them, and alphas just endlessly rearrange the recursions without ever achieving any finality; whereas Zizek, while disparate in his own way, always preserves a degree of continuity that would be out of character for both.
    4w3-5w6-8w7

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    this bs is not socionics
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    this bs is not socionics
    Its gulenkonics

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    It holds up pretty well in my experience. I knew about some of these styles before getting into Socionics, so it's cool that Gulenko gave them a name and explanation. And yes, I have noticed that ILI and EIE tend to think this way. @Nebula has made a few posts, for instance, that demonstrate it. So has @golden.
    Santa Claus: That probably comes from the inherent profit motive of the bourgeoisie mentality.
    Santa Claus: Even on a cold day, a Coke is refreshing.

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    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post

    I know most people here think he's alpha, but IMO Zizek exemplifies this tendency well with the way he continually goes back and forth between ideas and then synthesizes things at intervals (this is distinct from how, say, an ILE would do it, as with them the potentialities are expanded on for their own sake).
    Interesting that you mentioned him
    I've always typed zizek ILI

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    Quote Originally Posted by hag 2 View Post
    Perhaps the song isn't as slam-dunk of [abstract] synethesia or combination/conjoining of contradictory matter as I perceived it at the time, but I feel it's representative of those two principles still nonetheless.
    I can see what you mean. Pretty sure the guy who wrote it was Ti ego, but especially this line: “We will never know world peace, until three people can simultaneously look each other straight in the eye.” It takes some premise shifting and semantic shifting to understand what this means (As DA types tend to do). More generally, the theme of the song also represents synthesis between opposing viewpoints.
    Santa Claus: That probably comes from the inherent profit motive of the bourgeoisie mentality.
    Santa Claus: Even on a cold day, a Coke is refreshing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Number 9 large View Post
    Its gulenkonics
    gulenkology
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Zizek exemplifies one of those people who are floating around somewhere. It is like SEI's can be like this as well. I need to find few grounding or attachment points.
    You can suggest an alternative type based on video found in HERE

    extrospection > introspection



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    I think I have already told you this before. I tend to see reality in bits. There's a lot of white noise, and like how radio frequencies work, I can just tune into different stations. Almost like if I focus on one thing, everything else disappears. This makes me slow and uncertain of myself, especially when I have to make critical decisions. I can't seem to rest until I figure out a way to synthesize everything into a cohesive whole. I want reality to be consistent, and I want everything to fit into the one whole. It's like having pieces of a puzzle and I can only see glimpses of the full picture before it all falls apart again and I have to put it back together.
    100% real SLI. Do not question.

    <<Under construction >>

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    gulenkology
    The study of gulenko

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    Gulenko. Gulenkology. I gulenko. You gulenko. We gulenko.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pano Lou View Post
    I can't seem to rest until I figure out a way to synthesize everything into a cohesive whole. I want reality to be consistent, and I want everything to fit into the one whole. It's like having pieces of a puzzle and I can only see glimpses of the full picture before it all falls apart again and I have to put it back together.

    And Causal Deterministic types are aiming to live in middle of cohesive understanding. It is like going towards finer resolution connections between things where things start to get bit tricky. Once those finer things have been established it can be transferred with few alternations to new places.
    There can be multiple paths but there should be absolutely no contradictions.
    You can suggest an alternative type based on video found in HERE

    extrospection > introspection



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    Quote Originally Posted by A Moderator View Post
    It holds up pretty well in my experience. I knew about some of these styles before getting into Socionics, so it's cool that Gulenko gave them a name and explanation. And yes, I have noticed that ILI and EIE tend to think this way. @Nebula has made a few posts, for instance, that demonstrate it. So has @golden.
    I actually relate quite well to D-A, but due to introverted tendencies, it usually only comes out while trying to put my thoughts into structured form or creating something, and is not so apparent in casual conversations. It is an attempt to make the intangible, tangible. It is like having a bag of images and pulling them out, trying to find the best representation. None quite do it on their own, so you put various ones together, ending up with an approximate that is not represented by one alone, but is represented in the abstract by the various images. It is an image of images. This is something artists do quite naturally. I hope this makes at least a little fucking sense.

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    Baseless-Heretical Cognition and You
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    vesstheastralsilky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Number 9 large View Post
    Its gulenkonics
    I prefer astralsilkyionics myself. eh heh
    astralsilky

    Tests INXX
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