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Thread: Does Fe serve a purpose in Fi/Te quadras?

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    aka He Died With a Felafel Delilah's Avatar
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    Default Does Fe serve a purpose in Fi/Te quadras?

    I am aware that an average person will use all functions depending on circumstance, nature of interaction, etc. However, as Fe devaluing types, I was wondering how Fi/Te types approach Fe and what part Fe plays in Fi/Te types daily life? Thanks.
    "Inasmuch as it is nothing but pure communicability, every face, even the most noble and beautiful, is always suspended on the edge of an abyss"

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    Nope, unvalued

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    @Rebelondeck, what do you think?
    "Inasmuch as it is nothing but pure communicability, every face, even the most noble and beautiful, is always suspended on the edge of an abyss"

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    Well, what is called the demonstrative function in model A is the creative function in model G. So for example, IEE is Ne Fe, not Ne Fi, which makes a lot more sense if you look at @Chae for example. If you're and extrovert and a feeler, you're gonna be using Fe, duh. So yeah there's one Fe user in all quadras, in the serious quadras it's SEE and IEE. And how is it used? It is the creative function in both cases

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    It is tricky but something I have noticed:
    Fe quadra on autism: you do not like being around people.
    Fi quadra on autism: you do not form relational ties with people.

    So, they might look at the same issue and define it through Fe or Fi. However you really can not have one without another. This is true for all Yx where x=e, i and Y=N, F, T, S.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delilah View Post
    @Rebelondeck, what do you think?
    I certainly don't look upon Fe as a function in the same sense to which you refer. IMO, the only difference between Fe and Fi is configuration but most on this site would think that the following is too out there:

    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...tterns-by-I-O?

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Some IEEs bring a generous amount of Fe to bear and are superficially similar to Fe lead. Many LSEs cultivate a fair amount of it that I actually notice more because it stands out so much as a mode they enter and exit. Blah blah the theory says this anyway.

    Several IEEs I’ve known have been very good at emotional expression, including having a talent for performing on stage. I’ve seen LSEs apply Fe in making presentations and written statements to large groups of people and having a sense of how to impress and persuade.

    Somehow I notice this less in Gammas even though the theory has SEE and LIE down as possessing the same amount of Fe in the same placements as their Delta counterparts. Maybe they’re just more ironic about Fe, whereas Deltas are more earnest.
    Last edited by golden; 10-25-2018 at 11:39 AM.
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    IME, Fi valuing quadras have tighter limits in terms of the Fe they want in their lives. At worst they will see it as superfluous, immature, fake, disrespectful, or detrimental to their agendas.

    I knew an LIE who enjoyed the support of her EIE friend, though. So, I think so long as not too much psychological distance is closed, Fe can have positives for other quadras. Generally, every function can indirectly cause net benefits for types that don't value them. How many alpha and beta types gain something from the Te types who make business processes, infrastructure, and institutions more efficient?
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    Delilah, you can think in supervision for example. Unlike that popular idea in the forum, I actually think supervision has a purpose and can be very helpful. Not in the sense that you can change a lot about your own PoLR, but like literally they can assist you or cover up the lack of such element (and its repercussion) in your life.

    In the other hand, I think your dual has the element of your PoLR as strong element because you need it. It being unvalued means s/he can use it when its necessary but don't do it all the time and can easily drop it to prevent any real harm. I think the basic idea of duality is that each other is strong where the other is weak but not valued in such way that would create conflict.
    Last edited by BOT; 10-23-2018 at 11:03 PM.

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    I think every human makes use of every function in one way or another. And I also think we value all functions to a certain extent.


    Fe is sort of what I naturally notice the most and I see it a lot in Fi valuing quadras.


    I used to live with an SEE and several ILI. When they would threw parties she would be the only one talking. Sometimes her ESI friends would help too. But when they would leave the room the party would become nothing more than boys smoking weed, drinking beers and listening to techno music.
    Sometimes the ILIs would even keep the lights off. The SEE would then literally brighten the room by making them turn the lights on.
    Even though they often pretended to be annoyed by her you could tell that they were actually grateful and happy that she was doing what she was doing. They were really bad at Fe but they clearly saw the value in it.

    In their everyday life I could see them making use of fe a lot - or at least try. They would try to charge their words with emotion by using weird intonations or even screaming. It was like a joke to them but still they would do it a lot, especially when the SEE wasn't there to do the talking.

    I was particularly close to one of the ILIs and he would always come to me for love advice and even just relationship advice in general. I don't know if this would be qualified as looking for Fe or Fi.

    Also, i know an ILI who once said that he liked his SEE friend because he never gets bored with him as he makes every situation fun. However it might be relevant to note that as a Fe creative I find the Fe of the said SEE to be awfully toxic.

    I think every single ESI I know loves to talk about what they love with the people that they love. Does this count as Fe or Fi? See the line is very thin.

    If I compare all of this to Te which is my polr, I can say that I truly enjoy performing a task once I fully understand its workings and I have attached meaning to it. Still I can't stand Te in the forms that it stereotypically wears in socionics literature.

    I don't know many deltas but I used to work with an LSE woman that I really liked. She LOVED to tell jokes and she was actually pretty funny in a weird awkward and very assertive (almost aggressive) kind of way. She laughed very loudly which could get annoying At one point she took charge of buying groceries for the office and she would always ask us if we were happy about what she ordered. I know one can say that this falls under Si valuing and maybe Fi suggestive but I see a lot of Fe as well in such behavior.

    Finally, I don't want to sound biased but I feel like Te valuers very often copy the behavior of Fe egos once they realize that it is actually profitable. Kind of like the way start-ups and even bigger companies now insist on the fact it is "fun" to work for them. In the last two companies I worked for, they had a whole room dedicated to bonding and playing with your colleagues. They also insist more and more on team building.

    In college I had a class called "Organizational Behaviour". It sounds very Te but really they just tried to teach us how to behave with people at work and more generally as a part of a team. I was very amused by all the wealthy authors and "specialists" who wrote expensive books about what I think comes instinctively to most Fe egos.. For the exam we had to write an essay. I got an A by simply telling how much I hated one of my classmate and pretending that I used the "theories" of the "specialists" to manage my conflict with him.

    I think the conclusion of the former paragraph might be that Fe can be used by Te valuers as a tool for efficiency. Not just at work but simply as a mean to an end in general. Kind of like Te might be a mean to access emotional pleasure for Fe valuers? Once an SLE told me that he wanted to work a lot just so that he could then spend all his money on travelling. I personally want to work just so that I can stop needing to work at one point if that makes sense.

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    all functions "serve a purpose" for people of all types. they all are equally important to be alive
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by YXPR View Post
    ....

    In college I had a class called "Organizational Behaviour". It sounds very Te but really they just tried to teach us how to behave with people at work and more generally as a part of a team. I was very amused by all the wealthy authors and "specialists" who wrote expensive books about what I think comes instinctively to most Fe egos.. For the exam we had to write an essay. I got an A by simply telling how much I hated one of my classmate and pretending that I used the "theories" of the "specialists" to manage my conflict with him.

    ....
    If you have a chance, I would be very interested in reading what in Organizational Behaviour you think comes instinctively to Fe ego types? I took a class in Organizational Behaviour too and was very intrigued by it. And thanks for all the information you have shared so far.
    "Inasmuch as it is nothing but pure communicability, every face, even the most noble and beautiful, is always suspended on the edge of an abyss"

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    Fe plays as the ethic resolver. Like Fi/Te types are selfish bastards who doesn't know any social graces nor standards.

    Fi/Te is very subjective. Through Fe, they can learn or get an idea how are they doing in society terms.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Delilah View Post
    If you have a chance, I would be very interested in reading what in Organizational Behaviour you think comes instinctively to Fe ego types? I took a class in Organizational Behaviour too and was very intrigued by it. And thanks for all the information you have shared so far.
    Mostly the tools that they gave us to understand the behavior of people and how to influence it within a group. At the time I really felt like it was just common sense. And even though I realize now that some people might need such classes, I still don't like the it was taught. It was way too mechanical.

    1 class out of 2 the teacher would make us read a super long text (a case study) about a conflict that went on in a business environment or about employees loosing their motivation. We would then have to link as many paragraphs to a theory and its author. This was so annoying to me that it actually made me sad.

    And to be honest now that I started working, at the office I can always tell which managers go by the book of what they were told in school. They are the worse in my opinion. So obvious and clumsy with it that it actually dehumanizes the people that they manage.
    Of course this is just my opinion and I have only worked in very young environments so far. Maybe they will get better with experience idk.

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    Quote Originally Posted by YXPR View Post
    Finally, I don't want to sound biased but I feel like Te valuers very often copy the behavior of Fe egos once they realize that it is actually profitable. Kind of like the way start-ups and even bigger companies now insist on the fact it is "fun" to work for them. In the last two companies I worked for, they had a whole room dedicated to bonding and playing with your colleagues. They also insist more and more on team building.
    I agree with this. Thats why its called "role function". Anyway, its not that we (Te egos) dont find it "fun" - there is a standard baseline human component which is valid for every type.
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    To me those kind of bonding exercises seem very stilted and not very genuine. It is like: "We do this for business!". It is not spontaneous which would make it much more enjoyable.
    You can suggest an alternative type based on video found in HERE

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    Personally, I use Fe to disarm the audience with humor to distract them from my true purpose.

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    Quote Originally Posted by A Moderator View Post
    IME, Fi valuing quadras have tighter limits in terms of the Fe they want in their lives. At worst they will see it as superfluous, immature, fake, disrespectful, or detrimental to their agendas.
    I’ve never really understood this about serious quadras. I can understand superfluous or fake, and therefore bad in some cases. Those bother me too. Overdramatic or distracting emotional expression bothers me too. But outside of these cases I’ve never understood “disrespectful” or how the emotivity would be detrimental to an agenda otherwise unless inappropriate for the situation. Like especially gammas get really pissed off bitchy faces sometimes when you’re just trying to be a regular human being, lol. I’m like, “Whoa there, Dracula.”

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    That clickbait title...

    Quote Originally Posted by A Moderator View Post
    IME, Fi valuing quadras have tighter limits in terms of the Fe they want in their lives. At worst they will see it as superfluous, immature, fake, disrespectful, or detrimental to their agendas.

    I knew an LIE who enjoyed the support of her EIE friend, though. So, I think so long as not too much psychological distance is closed, Fe can have positives for other quadras. Generally, every function can indirectly cause net benefits for types that don't value them. How many alpha and beta types gain something from the Te types who make business processes, infrastructure, and institutions more efficient?
    This basically.

    In general, types will use subdued functions to the extent that they don't conflict with their valued functions. Possibly more if they come to an intellectual understanding of why they are valuable.

    In a nutshell, Fe conflicts with Te/Fi when the style or content of communication conflicts with the facts, or misrepresents the person's internal qualities (= fakeness).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troll Nr 007 View Post
    To me those kind of bonding exercises seem very stilted and not very genuine. It is like: "We do this for business!". It is not spontaneous which would make it much more enjoyable.
    In Fi-Te quadras you need the Fi creatives to lead those activities. Then they dont feel stilted and not genuine. If you let the Te leads do it it will either degenerate in some quarreling or come off as fake.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viktor View Post
    Well, what is called the demonstrative function in model A is the creative function in model G. So for example, IEE is Ne Fe, not Ne Fi, which makes a lot more sense if you look at @Chae for example. If you're and extrovert and a feeler, you're gonna be using Fe, duh. So yeah there's one Fe user in all quadras, in the serious quadras it's SEE and IEE. And how is it used? It is the creative function in both cases
    Yes hello any Fe needed?


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    Well, it usually seems to me that XEE's put gay twist on Fe.
    You can suggest an alternative type based on video found in HERE

    extrospection > introspection



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    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
    Yes hello any Fe needed?

    Oh you self type as EIE now. That logic still aplies though, because you'd still be using mainly Fe and Ne.

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    idk 'unvalued' doesn't necessarily mean 'throw it in the trash can and hatefully & endlessly talk about how much it stinks.' I would think you'd only do that if Fe was your polr or something?

    IEE/SEE both can have very good Fe, but at the end of the day still prefer Fi more. Those two-faced whores, easily sucking up to the alphas and betas but we all know where their true loyalties lie!

    I think Fi is okay, but I do like Fe better. I'd rate 'Fi' a C or B most days and Fe an A or A-. Sometimes a D or F if I think the person is 'using Fe inappropriately' (like Joss Whedon ugh) but that's because I know how to look a situation more objectively at times not just through my own lens. And this is all very average and vague.

    Anyway the thing that bothers me with Fi people is how they will sometimes inaccurately judge somebody just based on how they feel about them personally and that's weird to me... I get that it's only human to do that I guess, but at the same time I cannot be blind to how somebody is objectively in certain other situations just because of my own personal feelings towards them- they feel less like a lawbook than Fi types in that sense, and more 'free.' At the same time I guess I can see how I come across as a value-less whore to Fi valuers but oh well. Also many of the EIIs I clashed with in the past were so convinced somebody else was satan/demonic with no hard evidence to back it up except for their own personal feelings or morality about something. Like they just knew and "God just knew" or something, so that made it okay. It was very immoral and corrupt to me- whereas they viewed it as the complete opposite. Even if they weren't all that self-righteous about it, I still didn't like it though. It was just so much easier to hate them if they were super religious and Fi. Like how many LSE/EIIs are hahaha.

    At the same time, I do prefer guidance in this area w/Fi - of how to trust somebody's soul and how it aligns with mine, I can be very bad at it and I do appreciate help in this area- maybe that's how ESIs felt like my benefactor.

    My deep feelings of people have always felt like these watery waves that can change with the right circumstances, like I never really felt that eternal heavenly static connection feeling with anybody else- maybe just my mom only cuz I was connected with her in the womb and she protected me the most but even that I still realize when I hate her sometimes or something idk. Even when somebody deeply fucks me over, I can always sense how they felt like they had the right too usually, so it was easier to forgive and not be totally 'repulsed' by them- though I still dislike them more than others sure. Fe is too annoyingly objective that way.

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    There are probably very few people in this world that don't "value" emotions. Such people are probably insane.

    But look at what this has created, accusing people of lying and being loyal to some unknown fictional groups. When this whole thing is fiction to begin with.

    Such is yet another example of insanity that Socionics has created.

    Such a sad, sad state.

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    Quote Originally Posted by YXPR View Post
    Mostly the tools that they gave us to understand the behavior of people and how to influence it within a group. At the time I really felt like it was just common sense. And even though I realize now that some people might need such classes, I still don't like the it was taught. It was way too mechanical.

    1 class out of 2 the teacher would make us read a super long text (a case study) about a conflict that went on in a business environment or about employees loosing their motivation. We would then have to link as many paragraphs to a theory and its author. This was so annoying to me that it actually made me sad.

    And to be honest now that I started working, at the office I can always tell which managers go by the book of what they were told in school. They are the worse in my opinion. So obvious and clumsy with it that it actually dehumanizes the people that they manage.
    Of course this is just my opinion and I have only worked in very young environments so far. Maybe they will get better with experience idk.
    Thank you, i've really appreciated the insight in your posts. Please feel free to share more if you have the opportunity to.
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    Quote Originally Posted by YXPR View Post
    Finally, I don't want to sound biased but I feel like Te valuers very often copy the behavior of Fe egos once they realize that it is actually profitable. Kind of like the way start-ups and even bigger companies now insist on the fact it is "fun" to work for them. In the last two companies I worked for, they had a whole room dedicated to bonding and playing with your colleagues. They also insist more and more on team building.
    It seems to me more like this kind of culture is promoted more by Fe valuing types that run businesses. Marketing might be a clearer example of "Fe serving Te" in a way that Te valuers would recognize as being more concretely beneficial.

    In any case, I do think that American business culture is some kind of abominable mix of Te and Fe (and Se for that matter) - externally, where you somehow convince people to buy things they don't need to make a profit, and internally where you have hordes of management types who "talk the talk" and end up ascending the ranks despite how little they actually contribute. Startups are less full of BS in how they run internally but they often make up for it by BSing investors

    In general a lot of the moral issues of society can be diagnosed as excessive extroversion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    It seems to me more like this kind of culture is promoted more by Fe valuing types that run businesses. Marketing might be a clearer example of "Fe serving Te" in a way that Te valuers would recognize as being more concretely beneficial.

    In any case, I do think that American business culture is some kind of abominable mix of Te and Fe (and Se for that matter) - externally, where you somehow convince people to buy things they don't need to make a profit, and internally where you have hordes of management types who "talk the talk" and end up ascending the ranks despite how little they actually contribute. Startups are less full of BS in how they run internally but they often make up for it by BSing investors

    In general a lot of the moral issues of society can be diagnosed as excessive extroversion.
    In the U.S., I’ve seen a lot of orgs with the stupid “work hard, play hard” ethos over a long period of time, and it’s often code for “we own you.” I’d never thought of it as an Fe/Te mishmash, but I guess I can see it. Sometimes it has been a justification for working ridiculous hours for low pay in startups.
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    Quote Originally Posted by golden View Post
    In the U.S., I’ve seen a lot of orgs with the stupid “work hard, play hard” ethos over a long period of time, and it’s often code for “we own you.” I’d never thought of it as an Fe/Te mishmash, but I guess I can see it. Sometimes it has been a justification for working ridiculous hours for low pay in startups.
    ”We own you, but we don’t want to take care of you.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    ”We own you, but we don’t want to take care of you.”
    Yes, rather than good wages and benefits, you get a ping-pong table and espresso, and the implication you should stay late to enjoy those delights.
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    Quote Originally Posted by golden View Post
    Yes, rather than good wages and benefits, you get a ping-pong table and espresso, and the implication you should stay late to enjoy those delights.
    My Philosophy, when I dealt with employers, was "Keep that Benefit stuff. Just give me the money."

    Anytime someone tried to tell me that I should work for them because they had this great retirement plan that I could be invested in if I work there for a year for peasant wages, I walked. No one in those companies lasts long enough to actually get any benefits from those plans.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    My Philosophy, when I dealt with employers, was "Keep that Benefit stuff. Just give me the money."

    Anytime someone tried to tell me that I should work for them because they had this great retirement plan that I could be invested in if I work there for a year for peasant wages, I walked. No one in those companies lasts long enough to actually get any benefits from those plans. Those employers are ratfuckers and exploiters. I would love to drop each of them into Somalia. Preferably with a machine gun. The gun, plus their people skills, should serve them well for about twenty minutes.

    *EDIT*
    Now that I think of it, why punish the Somalis? Load the gun with blanks.
    Paid vacation and a medical plan can be helpful.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Personally, I use Fe to disarm the audience with humor to distract them from my true purpose.
    I like it when someone uses Fe to distract the audience from the fact that he doesn't know what he's doing. Often SEE

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    Quote Originally Posted by golden View Post
    Paid vacation off and a medical plan can be helpful.
    Those plans are provided from the profit (in addition to the profit that the company takes just for their effort) that you are making for them. What if you got all that profit yourself as pay?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmic Teapot View Post
    I like it when someone uses Fe to distract the audience from the fact that he doesn't know what he's doing. Often SEE
    Well, you'd like me, then.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Well, you'd like me, then.
    no nerds

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmic Teapot View Post
    no nerds
    Darn it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Those plans are provided from the profit (in addition to the profit that the company takes just for their effort) that you are making for them. What if you got all that profit yourself as pay?
    I understand that, but if I can’t get an equivalent insurance plan at equivalent cost as an individual, that’s a problem.

    The places I’ve worked that don’t give paid time off essentially didn’t condone any time off. In theory they did, but in practice you were pitted against people who wouldn’t take time off.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmic Teapot View Post
    I like it when someone uses Fe to distract the audience from the fact that he doesn't know what he's doing. Often SEE
    That would be a Fe user not a Fi user

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    Quote Originally Posted by Number 9 large View Post
    That would be a Fe user not a Fi user
    Disagree. But it could answer whether Turmp is SEE or SLE.

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