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Thread: What would an LIE with a strong Ni subtype look like?

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    Default What would an LIE with a strong Ni subtype look like?

    Fairly straightforward. Specifically speaking about an LIE with 2Ni or higher. How would you expect such a person to act or behave? Since they overuse their creative function, would they come across more as an ILI while still maintaining the base Te drive for empiricism and productivity? If you have had experiences with these people, could you please describe them?

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    I know a guy whom I type as LIE-1Ni, and he is a fairly good leader/director, not that ambitious, tall, thin, shaves his head, very frequently asks other people to help him with doing mundane tasks (low Se), doesn’t tell people what to do directly but will ask for their help when he wants to start a project, doesn’t seem to seek power over people, likes to work with an LSE, let’s his wife rule his life, is good with writing reports and talking with vendors.
    He is much less assertive than I am, and keeps everything on an impersonal level.
    I think that in many ways, he is better suited to running an established company than I am, although he almost certainly could not start a company.
    He is more cerebral than I am and less able to rally the troops or inspire people to either follow him or give him work.
    He has the sexually non-PC LIE sense of humor.
    Basically, a very nice, competent guy.

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    "I was ready to play. I was excited to play. Once the game started, it became the norm. It became reading defensive situations. You know, positioning of my teammates. Just overall strategy and tactics. And it felt good to get back to that."

    Santa Claus: That probably comes from the inherent profit motive of the bourgeoisie mentality.
    Santa Claus: Even on a cold day, a Coke is refreshing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I know a guy whom I type as LIE-1Ni, and he is a fairly good leader/director, not that ambitious, tall, thin, shaves his head, very frequently asks other people to help him with doing mundane tasks (low Se), doesn’t tell people what to do directly but will ask for their help when he wants to start a project, doesn’t seem to seek power over people, likes to work with an LSE, let’s his wife rule his life, is good with writing reports and talking with vendors.
    He is much less assertive than I am, and keeps everything on an impersonal level.
    I think that in many ways, he is better suited to running an established company than I am, although he almost certainly could not start a company.
    He is more cerebral than I am and less able to rally the troops or inspire people to either follow him or give him work.
    He has the sexually non-PC LIE sense of humor.
    Basically, a very nice, competent guy.
    I'm getting the vibe of a more externally focused ILI. If that's the case, then what would be the difference between an LIE with very strong Ni (3Ni) and an ILI (just thinking out loud)? My assumption would be that they would essentially be an ILI via temperament but the functions would apply to them in a very LIE way eg. Fi suggestive instead of mobilizing, Si PoLR instead of role.

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    [QUOTE=A Moderator;1298548]"I was ready to play. I was excited to play. Once the game started, it became the norm. It became reading defensive situations. You know, positioning of my teammates. Just overall strategy and tactics. And it felt good to get back to that."

    I'll watch this in full when I get the chance. But for now, what's your main point? That LIE with strong Ni prefer to look at the big picture and enjoy situations where they can play a game they want to play?
    Last edited by FarDraft; 10-08-2018 at 08:48 PM. Reason: removed video quote

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    Quote Originally Posted by FarDraft View Post

    I'll watch this in full when I get the chance. But for now, what's your main point? That LIE with strong Ni prefer to look at the big picture and enjoy situations where they can play a game they want to play?
    I'm just illustrating what an LIE Ni subtype looks like. Just LIE with an emphasis on the creative function.

    I wouldn't say they come across as an ILI because LIE and ILI have different creative functions. The way Ni surfaces in LIE vs ILI is different, regardless of subtype.

    Sure, they have similarities, belonging to the same quadra, and both being NTs, but they shouldn't be conflated.

    Creative function:
    This function describes the primary mode of application of the base function. If the base function forms the core of the individual's personal quests and interests ("What's in it for me?", "What do I want to be?"), the creative function describes his main instrument for interacting with the rest of society ("How do I make contact with other people?"). For extroverts this means creating a context for people to interact within, and for introverts ‚€” creating a product worthy of being included in interaction.People use their creative function less than their base function and attach less personal significance to it, although due to the nature of blocked functions it is usually used in tandem with the base function. In their value system, their creative function activities seem less personally significant than their base function activities. When other people try to make this function the main criterion for everything, light irritation can arise, and the person may try to "correct" the other person's emphasis by presenting a perspective from his base function and suggesting that this is more important. Also, when other people express problems having to do with this information aspect, the person quickly takes interest and tries to present solutions ‚€” but always through his own base function. For instance, an SEE will try to help other people solve their Fi related problems (relationships and understanding between people) through a Se perspective (making sure you know what you want and are trying to achieve it; understanding the territorial aspect of interaction; recognizing the obvious "dumb things" that people are doing that are ruining the relationship). When people get to use their creative function to help others' problems, they feel needed and fulfilled and begin to live more fully. Likewise, criticism in this area is more sensitive and unpleasant than in the base function.Use of the creative function ‚€” while frequent and effortless ‚€” seems to turn on and off. One moment the person may seem highly interested in this aspect, and the next ‚€” totally indifferent. This may jar people for whom this aspect of reality is of more supreme importance and who expect more consistent attention and effort in this area. A good example of this is one's interaction with their mirror partner; each person's leading function is subject to the other's creativity function, so even though both partners do share similar worldviews, they are apt to 'correct' or add on to the other's rigid and finalized points.



    Santa Claus: That probably comes from the inherent profit motive of the bourgeoisie mentality.
    Santa Claus: Even on a cold day, a Coke is refreshing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by A Moderator View Post
    I'm just illustrating what an LIE Ni subtype looks like. Just LIE with an emphasis on the creative function.

    I wouldn't say they come across as an ILI because LIE and ILI have different creative functions. The way Ni surfaces in LIE vs ILI is different, regardless of subtype.

    Sure, they have similarities, belonging to the same quadra, and both being NTs, but they shouldn't be conflated.
    Of course. I am not trying to conflate them, but rather trying to see the connection between a base Ni individual and a strong creative Ni individual.

    This is actually somewhat unrelated to the thread, but I noticed in the creative function quote it says that Se is related to knowing what you want and are trying to achieve it. I was unaware that this was related to Se. This is actually a characteristic of mine that I hold dearly. I know what I want in my life and I have been taking the steps to achieve it over the last many years. I have been thoroughly planning what I need to achieve my goals (knowledge, skills, connections, funds, etc.) and have been trying to figure out how to obtain them. For example, I have planned all the courses I want to take over my 4 year degree so that I cover all the bases needed for my future goals. Each course serves a purpose so there is no wasted time. Would you call this Te benefit seeking + Se desire-awareness + Ni forecasting? Because, if so, it could be evidence for my being LIE. LII isn't still lost on me though. Sorry for diverting the thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FarDraft View Post
    Of course. I am not trying to conflate them, but rather trying to see the connection between a base Ni individual and a strong creative Ni individual.

    This is actually somewhat unrelated to the thread, but I noticed in the creative function quote it says that Se is related to knowing what you want and are trying to achieve it. I was unaware that this was related to Se. This is actually a characteristic of mine that I hold dearly. I know what I want in my life and I have been taking the steps to achieve it over the last many years. I have been thoroughly planning what I need to achieve my goals (knowledge, skills, connections, funds, etc.) and have been trying to figure out how to obtain them. For example, I have planned all the courses I want to take over my 4 year degree so that I cover all the bases needed for my future goals. Each course serves a purpose so there is no wasted time. Would you call this Te benefit seeking + Se desire-awareness + Ni forecasting? Because, if so, it could be evidence for my being LIE. LII isn't still lost on me though. Sorry for diverting the thread.
    According to model A, a connection between ILI and LIE is that they both have Ni in their ego block. Therefore, they have high proficiency with Ni, Ni is one of their most conscious functions, and they value Ni. Compared to the other types, a base Ni individual and a strong creative Ni have an exceptionally high preference for Ni. Nevertheless, the LIE is still an extravert who leads with Te and an ILI is still an introvert who leads with Ni. So, as far as subtypes are concerned, we're looking at a spectrum of preference; LIE Ni employs Ni more than the default profile and ILI Te employs Te more than the default profile.

    That's not conclusive evidence for you being LIE; all gammas value Se and what they want plays a significant role in how they develop their vision (Ni) of how to get it.
    Santa Claus: That probably comes from the inherent profit motive of the bourgeoisie mentality.
    Santa Claus: Even on a cold day, a Coke is refreshing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by A Moderator View Post
    That's not conclusive evidence for you being LIE; all gammas value Se and what they want plays a significant role in how they develop their vision (Ni) of how to get it.
    Yes, I should have been less specific. It would be evidence for gamma, but I'm sure that I'm not gamma SF, so that would narrow it down to either ILI or LIE. All I wanted to know is if that correlated with gamma, which I strongly suspected it did.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FarDraft View Post
    Yes, I should have been less specific. It would be evidence for gamma, but I'm sure that I'm not gamma SF, so that would narrow it down to either ILI or LIE. All I wanted to know is if that correlated with gamma, which I strongly suspected it did.
    Have you always been that way? Is that generally how you live your life?
    Santa Claus: That probably comes from the inherent profit motive of the bourgeoisie mentality.
    Santa Claus: Even on a cold day, a Coke is refreshing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by A Moderator View Post
    Have you always been that way? Is that generally how you live your life?
    I've actually been thinking about that recently. What I was like as a younger kids and how I've changed over time. While I don't remember much, what I can confidently say is that I've never had the best social skills. I remember this one time when a person came back to my school after a few years and the first thing I asked them was if they got any faster in sprinting. I was always the fastest sprinter in my grade, so I was very competitive about that, and I thought others were as well. But they were confused and displeased with my comment. (I should also mention that this person didn't really like me much, so I still made this comment knowing that).I've never been very good at gauging what I should and shouldn't say, so ultimately I end up being more careful than I need to be since I have had some bad experiences when people reprimanded me for being insensitive. Ultimately, I don't want people to feel bad about what I say since there's no point. There's a time for complete uncensorship but in front of a stranger isn't one of those times since there's no reason to burn a bridge that hasn't even been built yet. I don't know how this correlates in socionics terms, but I know that in real life terms this is called having poor social skills. I've been working at it though. I think I've gotten much better. Nowadays it still manifests as not knowing what to say in front of people but more because I'm afraid to offend others since I don't really know how my words affect them. So it comes across as awkwardness and offhanded dry remarks.

    I'll see if I can give a more thorough estimation of my past self as I remember things more clearly.

    EDIT: I should add that I am not afraid to offend somebody when I need to. It's just that I must be very convinced that it is the correct action to take since otherwise you look like the immature fool, especially if you call someone out in public. I tend to hesitate in this regard.
    Last edited by FarDraft; 10-09-2018 at 06:11 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FarDraft View Post
    I'm getting the vibe of a more externally focused ILI. If that's the case, then what would be the difference between an LIE with very strong Ni (3Ni) and an ILI (just thinking out loud)? My assumption would be that they would essentially be an ILI via temperament but the functions would apply to them in a very LIE way eg. Fi suggestive instead of mobilizing, Si PoLR instead of role.
    Well ILIs are introverts, IP introverts, their energy is quite different from an EJ type if you look at their overall life. Even very Ni LIEs squander energy, are kind of loud, will initiate contact with people, etc.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FarDraft View Post
    I've actually been thinking about that recently. What I was like as a younger kids and how I've changed over time. While I don't remember much, what I can confidently say is that I've never had the best social skills. I remember this one time when a person came back to my school after a few years and the first thing I asked them was if they got any faster in sprinting. I was always the fastest sprinter in my grade, so I was very competitive about that, and I thought others were as well. But they were confused and displeased with my comment. (I should also mention that this person didn't really like me much, so I still made this comment knowing that).I've never been very good at gauging what I should and shouldn't say, so ultimately I end up being more careful than I need to be since I have had some bad experiences when people reprimanded me for being insensitive. Ultimately, I don't want people to feel bad about what I say since there's no point. There's a time for complete uncensorship but in front of a stranger isn't one of those times since there's no reason to burn a bridge that hasn't even been built yet. I don't know how this correlates in socionics terms, but I know that in real life terms this is called having poor social skills. I've been working at it though. I think I've gotten much better. Nowadays it still manifests as not knowing what to say in front of people but more because I'm afraid to offend others since I don't really know how my words affect them. So it comes across as awkwardness and offhanded dry remarks.

    I'll see if I can give a more thorough estimation of my past self as I remember things more clearly.

    EDIT: I should add that I am not afraid to offend somebody when I need to. It's just that I must be very convinced that it is the correct action to take since otherwise you look like the immature fool, especially if you call someone out in public. I tend to hesitate in this regard.
    This sound like Fi role (zone of fears), and Fe valuing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by COOL AND MANLY View Post
    This sound like Fi role (zone of fears), and Fe valuing.
    More evidence for Ti-base, eh. Whaddya know.

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    Meged and Ovcharov have postulated that subtype preference for the creative function increases strength of the 3rd and 5th functions. Emphasizing The first function strengthens the 4th and 6th.

    I think there is something to this idea.

    So, LIE-Ni has more developped Fe and Fi and seems closer to a beta NF, whereas ILI-Te has better develloped Si and Se and thus seems closer to delta ST.
    Last edited by Avebury; 10-10-2018 at 12:32 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Well ILIs are introverts, IP introverts, their energy is quite different from an EJ type if you look at their overall life. Even very Ni LIEs squander energy, are kind of loud, will initiate contact with people, etc.
    Ah I'm pretty sure this is the football fan from another thread looking forward to talking to you soon
    I agree E initiates contact with people but not the loud part really, I think any type is capable of that more than the other
    I consider myself a really loud(scenario by scenario basis mostly) person
    Yea

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    Quote Originally Posted by Avebury View Post
    Meged and Ovcharov have postulated that subtype preference for the creative function increases strength of the 3rd and 5th functions. Emphasizing The first function strengthens the 4th and 6th.

    I think there is something to this idea.

    So, LIE-Ni has more developped Fe and Fi and seems closer to a beta NF, whereas ILI-Te has better develloped Si and Se and thus seems closer to delta ST.
    Those connections at the end would be self-evident, would they not? Since LIE-Ni places more emphasis on their creative, their base would be subdued but they still have an Ej temperament, meaning that it would be more difficult to distinguish between Fe and Te base. Similarly, since ILI places more emphasis on their Te, their dominant element would be more subdued but they would still have an Ip temperament, leading to their looking more like SLIs. But I guess the temperament would be difficult to conceive since they are more extraverted than normal. It would require a deeper knowledge of the person you are dealing with.

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