Se, Si and sound

[Guillaine]

I'm wondering about silence and sound in relation to Si and Se. For example I know a few Se valuers who like white noise like radio/tv to sleep and Si valuers needing silence for sleep. Also I know Se valuers who have great difficulty sitting with someone in silence and prefer or insist on filling the space with sound, even if they are saying nothing of any use. This bothers Si valuers, wheres Si valuers often need quiet time to process things, and when they are stressed they try to find quiet. It seems like a long time without silence is straining for one whereas a long time with silence is straining for the other. Is it about Se valuers taking responsibility for the aural 'space' or making sure someone is doing that, so that they can relax? How to reconcile two such viscerally conflicting values in the one space?

[Bertrand]

kill all Si valuers

[WinnieW]

kill all Si valuers

It looks to me you started valuing .
A post from you that contains only four words. Usually you write at least 40 words in one post.
...and btw, yes, I'm sarcastic...

[Overthinker]

kill all Si valuers

Looks like you’ve settled on a type, Bert.
Let me guess: it’s not a Si valuing one.

[chrys]

its less about sound, more about people and pollution and crowded space for me

[chrys]

Silence is always annoying to me, if I'm with an si valuer that is doing their own thing and not entertaining me.

Like people who don't know how to engage their guests are annoying, at least tell me what I can do in your house if you are just expecting me to drink your tea and sit awkwardly on your couch... so boring

I hate feeling like I'm being watched or like I don't know what I'm permitted to do, and silent people annoy me for that reason.. they make me feel like i'm walking on eggshells all the time

[Overthinker]

Silence is always annoying to me, if I'm with an si valuer that is doing their own thing and not entertaining me.

Like people who don't know how to engage their guests are annoying, at least tell me what I can do in your house if you are just expecting me to drink your tea and sit awkwardly on your couch... so boring

I hate feeling like I'm being watched or like I don't know what I'm permitted to do, and silent people annoy me for that reason.. they make me feel like i'm walking on eggshells all the time

Whew, it sounds like you would hate me, then lol... well, I guess we are conflictors after all.

I am not a very talkative person, especially to people I’m not familiar with, which has led to quite a few situations of awkwardness in my life. I actually find that I’m the opposite of you, and feel the most comfortable around people that don’t especially mind my quietness/don’t make me feel like I should be saying something at all times.

I blame my shitty Fe for this.

[Chakram]

I tend to like having white noise (I leave a fan on even during the winter months) partially to block out any possible outside noises, and also pure quietness is strange.

Not sure if it is type related, although maybe the reason for someone preferring one over the other is.

[Rebelondeck]

Yes, Si-types do seem to like to hear themselves think and are often annoyed by distracting sounds; some seem to have trouble fully concentrating when in a din. This seems contrary to their ability to hyper focus on a subject and their weakness to be easily blindsided because they're so focused - but Si-types cannot disconnect from input like Se-types can.....

a.k.a. I/O

[Exodus]

I'm wondering about silence and sound in relation to Si and Se. For example I know a few Se valuers who like white noise like radio/tv to sleep and Si valuers needing silence for sleep. Also I know Se valuers who have great difficulty sitting with someone in silence and prefer or insist on filling the space with sound, even if they are saying nothing of any use. This bothers Si valuers, wheres Si valuers often need quiet time to process things, and when they are stressed they try to find quiet. It seems like a long time without silence is straining for one whereas a long time with silence is straining for the other. Is it about Se valuers taking responsibility for the aural 'space' or making sure someone is doing that, so that they can relax? How to reconcile two such viscerally conflicting values in the one space?

Types with high or valued Se (in particular Se leading types) are typically more comfortable with rambunctious or loud settings, and Si valuers with more peaceful or relaxing settings. Sound is one aspect of this. In practice it gets complicated though - e.g. LSIs have low Fe and demonstrative Si and therefore may get overwhelmed by too much stimuli, while ESEs have Se demonstrative and Fe leading so are more likely to want to get "fired up". Other types will be at various points on the spectrum.

[Rebelondeck]

....e.g. LSIs ....... may get overwhelmed by too much stimuli, while ESEs ....... are more likely to want to get "fired up"..........

Ijs normally prefer quiet settings but they also seem able to tune things out when overwhelmed while for Ejs, it's more difficult; Ijs seem able to go into themselves and carve out a sort of mental retreat where thinking is possible. In boisterous settings, Ejs do seem to feed off the energy but when they need to really think, they often need to physically pull away from the fray. Loving party settings and not being able to tolerate physical distractions does seem paradoxical........

a.k.a. I/O

Edit: Note that it must have something to do with an Ejs need to be in control of situations, which may also include their immediate environments.

[Exodus]

Ijs normally prefer quiet settings but they also seem able to tune things out when overwhelmed while for Ejs, it's more difficult; Ijs seem able to go into themselves and carve out a sort of mental retreat where thinking is possible. In boisterous settings, Ejs do seem to feed off the energy but when they need to really think, they often need to physically pull away from the fray. Loving party settings and not being able to tolerate physical distractions does seem paradoxical........

a.k.a. I/O

Edit: Note that it must have something to do with an Ejs need to be in control of situations, which may also include their immediate environments.

Why are you replying to me?

[Tallmo]

White noise could be Ni though. This doesnt contradict what you said about Se valuers liking it though

I like sound to be natural, organic, unplugged. Microphones distort the acoustics and the feeling for the space. I like chamber music where the natural acoustics of the room play a big part.

My favourite sound is probably the wind blowing in the trees at night when sleeping in the countryside. Its comforting and a little scary at the same time. Like nature.

[WinnieW]

White noise could be Ni though.

I don't think that white noise is per se. White noise is maximum randomness of information and the maximum state of unpredictablity.
But our hearing does function in a way that is doesn't percieve the randomness of white noise; because the human hearing perceive the loudness of different frequencies of tones.
True noise is toneless, however, but it always perceives the loudness and frequency distribution of sound.

If you can hear patterns then it's the result of the brain spotting for patterns in the randomness.
I guess that every person can perceive different patterns out of noise, in contrary to music that consists of tonal sounds.

My take on this is that white noise becomes tiring after a certain amount of time listening to it attentively.
White noise as sound in the background might have a relaxing effect, tough.

All perceived patterns in the noise are patterns constructed in the mind of the listener, given that the noise is truly unmodulated.

Microphones distort the acoustics and the feeling for the space.

There is no perfect microphone and of course the sound varies at different listing positions. Music that is recorded with the position of the microphones static in the room... and they tend to cancel out many reflected sounds.

I like chamber music where the natural acoustics of the room play a big part.

You value the sound reflections in the listening room.

My favourite sound is probably the wind blowing in the trees at night when sleeping in the countryside.

There is a theory that such sounds are similar to the sound unborn babies hear; the noise of the blood streaming through the veins of the mother.

----------------------------------------------------

I find the following hearing test of interest.

It shows that different people have different perception of sounds.
Some people focus on the fundamental tone, others on the overtones of instruments.

http://www.galaxyclassics.com/index....ff/70-overtone

P.S. I'm an overtone hearer.
That explains why I like fancy colorful sounds, but it's quite difficult for me to estimate the correct pitch of a sound.

[timber]

I know a hardcore Si type guy who needs an annoying sound sleep machine EVERY SINGLE NIGHT, or else he cannot rest.

Si=habits. What felt good today will feel good tomorrow.

[Exodus]

I know a hardcore Si type guy who needs an annoying sound sleep machine EVERY SINGLE NIGHT, or else he cannot rest.

Si=habits. What felt good today will feel good tomorrow.

Very true, but certain sounds (like dubstep or metal) or environments (like nightclubs and football games) are (over)stimulating by their nature. Most people can't tolerate being exposed to them except infrequently or in small doses.

[Little Timmy]

This is a cool thread, never thought about Se and Si and their connection to sounds.
I hate loud noises, sudden noises startle me when I'm concentrated in something. People (especially guys) with loud or chirpy, high-pitched voices put me off (even though I try not to pay attention to that and focus on what they're saying, it kinda "pops out" in a way I can't help but notice it. Dissonant voices (like bad singing) bother me too.
From all this you've probably figured out that I love silence. Though it's mostly just avoidance of noise what I like, I listen to music (with headphones) a lot and sleep with a fan right next to me.
I value Si much more than Fe. Whenever (I perceive) something is wrong with the Si in the environment (like, too much noise, bad smell, cigarette smell, too hot) I get really annoyed and feel kinda helpless because mostly all I can do is just leave and go somewhere else. If it's something in my power to change then I try to deal with it.

[wasp]

i don't like loud sounds, and this extends to loud or ugly voices. i don't like people who sound distressed. i like my sister but when she speaks it's like she's "shaking" and she thinks it's necessary to project her voice even if the environment is practically silent, she's a good person but it takes a lot of self-control to not tell her she needs to chill out, but my IEE friend and my ILE ex-boyfriend have some of the loveliest voices i've heard. honestly i don't think i could befriend someone whose voice i didn't like

i have the opposite problem because my voice doesn't project very far if at all and it physically hurts me to go further than that

but i do enjoy music at high volumes if it's welcome (meaning i'm listening to music through my headphones)

sometimes i play netflix in the background while i'm going to sleep but if i had one of those machines that plays nature sounds i'd probably prefer that

weirdly enough i like tuvan throat singing

[schwiftyrickty]

I must sleep with a fan on (the sound of my heartbeat in the complete silence creeps my out lol. Very distracting when I'm trying to sleep.), but I prefer not to sleep with music or television. Oddly, I have no problem sleeping with the lights on though. Probably because I work nights. I often leave the lights on when I sleep.

My roommate who I haven't been living with very long is D-SEE-Se I think. He can't stand silence and it's starting to get on my nerves. He also can't entertain himself at all, but that's another story. He always has to be watching something on TV even if it's not something he's particularly interested in watching. And half of the stuff that comes out of his mouth is totally pointless. I feel like you shouldn't talk unless it's important (unless both parties are actively involved in a stimulating conversation). I find it downright rude to get my attention, say something that has nothing to do with me, and distract me from my thoughts or projects. Especially because I usually have earphones in. With him I find myself constantly having to take my earbuds out and say "What?" and it is never anything worth it.

I don't necessarily like complete silence, but I don't like having a lot of distractions. And I obviously don't like annoying sounds.

Also I've never liked fireworks or thunder too much. Nice, relaxing, rumbling thunder is nice, but I'm too scared of loud bolts of lightning for how old I am lol.

And until recently I've never really cared for very loud music. I'd rather protect my ears. Lately I've found myself listening to extremely energetic, hardcore music in my headphones pretty much constantly though. It keeps my energy levels up and makes me more productive. I feel like I've finally discovered why people listen to music. I still don't like it deafeningly loud though.

[Guillaine]

I must sleep with a fan on (the sound of my heartbeat in the complete silence creeps my out lol. Very distracting when I'm trying to sleep.), but I prefer not to sleep with music or television. Oddly, I have no problem sleeping with the lights on though. Probably because I work nights. I often leave the lights on when I sleep.

My roommate who I haven't been living with very long is D-SEE-Se I think. He can't stand silence and it's starting to get on my nerves. He also can't entertain himself at all, but that's another story. He always has to be watching something on TV even if it's not something he's particularly interested in watching. And half of the stuff that comes out of his mouth is totally pointless. I feel like you shouldn't talk unless it's important (unless both parties are actively involved in a stimulating conversation). I find it downright rude to get my attention, say something that has nothing to do with me, and distract me from my thoughts or projects. Especially because I usually have earphones in. With him I find myself constantly having to take my earbuds out and say "What?" and it is never anything worth it.

I don't necessarily like complete silence, but I don't like having a lot of distractions. And I obviously don't like annoying sounds.

Also I've never liked fireworks or thunder too much. Nice, relaxing, rumbling thunder is nice, but I'm too scared of loud bolts of lightning for how old I am lol.

And until recently I've never really cared for very loud music. I'd rather protect my ears. Lately I've found myself listening to extremely energetic, hardcore music in my headphones pretty much constantly though. It keeps my energy levels up and makes me more productive. I feel like I've finally discovered why people listen to music. I still don't like it deafeningly loud though.

I don't mind the fan or rain or that sort of thing, I guess with white noise I meant Tv or radio which my son needs and I don't like.
What you describe with the SEE-SE that is my son's type so it is the constant or almost constant strain in my life. He absolutely cannot entertain himself, he won't play unless it's with me, he will wait for me if I tell him I need to do something else, he is never quiet, even if there's nothing to say he will be talking rubbish or making up songs, he's extremely creative, I try to enjoy it but I am always at my limit and beyond. He is in your face with sound and physical contact the whole time. It basically requires me to let go of that focus, basically my base, and be in the present and not escape it it's so weird. It feels like a conflict between me adjusting to it, to the extent that I don't fit in with Deltas anymore because I get used to the noise, or constantly being strained and fighting/negotiating both our needs is difficult with this type of person at this age.

I was very afraid of microphones as a child and loud noises like the bath plug and motorbikes, anything amplified, or in costume, don't know if that's related.

[Guillaine]

I would like to hear more from the Se valuing side though. I understand objectively the Si stuff is about gathering information on how they are feeling/experiencing the moment, so is the taking up space by Se a way of processing too? How? What does it mean?
Also i would like to hear from ILI how they respond to a lot of loud noise etc.

[vesstheastralsilky]

I discovered that the more Se is being used, the more sensitive ones awareness becomes to hearing incidental sounds like outside noises and the HVAC system in action.

It makes me wonder what relationship the Basal Ganglia might have with correcting hearing loss. That chosen brain center is my own speculation.

I prefer quiet to fall asleep to.

[Number 9 large]

I hate silence i dont go anywhere without my headphones and some music

[sbbds]

I don’t think you could distinguish between Se and Si when it comes to silence vs. lowkey background or white noise, since the effect of the two sensorically is almost the same.

[sbbds]

@Guillaine How old is your son? Would it be too difficult, or have you already tried, telling your son about your needs and limitations?

[Guillaine]

@Guillaine How old is your son? Would it be too difficult, or have you already tried, telling your son about your needs and limitations?

He is almost four. He is a force of nature in every way. he is the same type as Donald Trump actually SEE 7w8 except he has the shiftyness but he is SE subtype and Creative so basically the most Se you can find in a person, so he is like a dictatorial loud version of trump lol. Explaining doesn't work with anything with him, he needs consequences always, it is the same for him leanrning to sleep, eat, not push other kids (which was what he did constantly until he was 2.5 years). It's hard becasue I have some fatigue health issues which it might contribute to and because SE is my role so sometimes I snap into gear and take change but it's inconsistent. It's like he is always 3 steps ahead. I have been trying to speak lowly, calmly and unemotionally with him in every interraction this week, as he likes everything to be dramatic and stir up emotions, ie screams about anything tiny, and also not budging in what I want him to do but also acting like I don't care that much, more detached emotionally, and it is working to some degree. This must be a bit what INTp does naturally.

[Adam Strange]

He is almost four. He is a force of nature in every way. he is the same type as Donald Trump actually SEE 7w8 except he has the shiftyness but he is SE subtype and Creative so basically the most Se you can find in a person, so he is like a dictatorial loud version of trump lol. Explaining doesn't work with anything with him, he needs consequences always, it is the same for him leanrning to sleep, eat, not push other kids (which was what he did constantly until he was 2.5 years). It's hard becasue I have some fatigue health issues which it might contribute to and because SE is my role so sometimes I snap into gear and take change but it's inconsistent. It's like he is always 3 steps ahead. I have been trying to speak lowly, calmly and unemotionally with him in every interraction this week, as he likes everything to be dramatic and stir up emotions, ie screams about anything tiny, and also not budging in what I want him to do but also acting like I don't care that much, more detached emotionally, and it is working to some degree. This must be a bit what INTp does naturally.

Raising kids can be a huge challenge. They have one purpose in life, which is to figure out what they want and how to get it. Plus, they are amoral, which adds to the strain of socializing the little rugrats.

Consequences are one of the best things IMO that you can do. There's no good guy or bad guy or recriminations, there's just your rules and consequences. I discovered them after trying nearly every other parenting method. At one point (before consequences), my son was gaming me pretty hard.

I like the fact that you are looking at putting him with an older, responsible ILI. My son is SLI, and he bounced around in grade school until he got one teacher whom he adored. He paid attention to her, her did whatever she asked him, she praised him and truly appreciated his talents, and he came home from school every day just as happy as a person could be. I just thought she was an excellent teacher, but I ran into her in the grocery store after I discovered Socionics and years after she had him in her class. We got to talking about personalities (because we were both recently divorced), and she said she knew which type she is.

She is IEE.

[Vespertine]

random thought: i think Si valuers are more likely to talk about noise they find enjoyable or not than Se.

from what i understand, Se-egos do not like silence because they need sensorial stimulation, i read that if there is not enough stimuli they might provoke it, while Si valuers like their comfort sounds or silence, which is highly personal.
i think Ni egos could be the most attracted to silence, regarding functions only, as cutting away from the world helps to process all that was taken in through a weak Se without being bombarded by new stimuli.

none of the above thakes into consideration preferences of an individual, it is just general possibilities i think seems fitting regarding this thread and a few thing i have personaly read.

[sbbds]

@Guillaine I disagree with your Trump typing, but yes, it’s hard to deal with rambunctious kids like that without Se yourself. They need to be physically tired out IME, given hard resistance, and yes, consequences if they behave poorly. Keep in mind that ILIs are still Se valuing, so avoid wavering with the consequences, otherwise he will just learn to keep pushing limits with you. The more strict your consequences, the faster he’ll learn. Make sure he doesn’t find loopholes either; your Ne should help you with that a lot.

[Guillaine]

Thank you.

[sbbds]

Thank you.

You’re welcome! If things improve I’d like to know what helped!

[idontgiveaf]

Oh crap. Dude. Like, i actually don't like silences. Because silences are defeaning. I always wanna play some music on the background.

[Delilah]

It seems like something like what OP describes could also be a learned thing, hard to say to what extend type related goes. Fwiw my SEI mother absolutely couldn't stand any kind of 'noise' that might disturb activities such as her working, trying to sleep, trying to rest etc. It seemed like a major upset for her. I know for me it was similar when i was younger, but i figured that it was learned from my mother since now i don't mind things like a bit of noise, and have tried having white noise on for sleeping and while concentrating without any problems.