Feeling like every type(or none of them) in the Enneagram at once--

**Xaiviay** · 06-29-2018, 10:27 PM

Going off of a suggestion by @ouronis, I'm going to explain why I relate to all 9 types about equally. I've decided to put it in it's own thread, since it takes up so much space to go into all of them in detail. If anybody else relates, then please feel free to explain your own experiences!

I think the Enneagram is something that captures a lot of the most basic, universal human motives that we all (or nearly all) share. I’m wondering if it might be pretty common for others to feel equally balanced between the types.

If anybody disagrees and thinks I'm most likely one type, I'd be curious to hear why as well. I'm going off the descriptions from here: https://www.enneagraminstitute.com/type-descriptions

E1:

They are teachers, crusaders, and advocates for change: always striving to improve things, but afraid of making a mistake. Well-organized, orderly, and fastidious, they try to maintain high standards, but can slip into being critical and perfectionistic. They typically have problems with resentment and impatience... ... Ones resist being affected by their instinctual drives, consciously not giving in to them or expressing them too freely. The result is a personality type that has problems with repression, resistance

I am not organized and orderly. Mostly I am spontaneous, living on impulses. However, I've been criticized for being too perfectionistic, for not being able to see the the positive side. I tend towards being impatient. I do feel a drive to change the world for the better. I have a vision of the world being more beautiful, more free, more wealthy, more humane, more honest and trustworthy, etc--and I want to contribute to this ideal, even influencing others in that direction when appropriate. Most people probably have a similar desire. However, this desire is not one I'm regularly focused on. I think I'd feel overwhelmed and drained if it was. It's more like something I check on from time to time, to see if the way I'm living is in alignment with those higher ideals.

Lastly about E1; this description reminds me a lot of how I experience Te (my POLR). I'm nervous about having my factual understanding proved wrong, and having my work efficiency criticized, so I try really hard not to make mistakes in this area (at least in front of other people).

Want to be right, to strive higher and improve everything, to be consistent with their ideals, to justify themselves, to be beyond criticism so as not to be condemned by anyone.

E2:

Twos are empathetic, sincere, and warm-hearted. They are friendly, generous, and self-sacrificing, but can also be sentimental, flattering, and people-pleasing. They are well-meaning and driven to be close to others, but can slip into doing things for others in order to be needed. They typically have problems with possessiveness and with acknowledging their own needs... ...Key Motivations: Want to be loved, to express their feelings for others, to be needed and appreciated

I hardly ever have problems with neglecting my own needs in favor of helping others. I don't think I even enjoy feeling needed. I don't want to have children, because I dislike the idea of having to take care of someone who's 100% dependent on me for everything 24/7. I'm hesitant to get pets for this reason, (even though I enjoy animals). However...one of my major desires since I was very young was to have a healthy, happy romantic relationship. So I do want to love and be loved, for both of us to take care of each other. Also, I do want to be generally well-liked by friends and family. I do helpful things for people from time to time, and I frequently get complimented on being friendly, warm, and sincere.

Though overall, this is probably the type I feel the least affinity with.

E3:

Threes are self-assured, attractive, and charming. Ambitious, competent, and energetic, they can also be status-conscious and highly driven for advancement. They are diplomatic and poised, but can also be overly concerned with their image and what others think of them. They typically have problems with workaholism and competitiveness...

Basic Fear: Of being worthless
Basic Desire: To feel valuable and worthwhile

...Want to be affirmed, to distinguish themselves from others, to have attention, to be admired, and to impress others.

Well let's see, I wish I was self-assured, attractive, charming, ambitious, competent, and energetic, but I doubt I am, and I hardly ever get complimented on those things xD The concept of being high-social-status does not sound very motivating, for it's own sake. I do not have problems with workaholism whatsoever. If anything, I think I'm too lazy. But then again, I do fear being worthless to a romantic partner, a lot. I like to make artistic projects and then put them out there for the world to see, so anybody who likes my art can enjoy it, too. In my mind, that makes my art provide more value, since there's more than one person enjoying it. And it's hopefully making the world more beautiful, which fits under my E1 ideals. I have issues with worrying about what others think of me in social interactions :/ And I can't deny that it makes me feel really, really good to be admired, to impress, or to receive attention from friends.

E4:

Fours are self-aware, sensitive, and reserved. They are emotionally honest, creative, and personal, but can also be moody and self-conscious. Withholding themselves from others due to feeling vulnerable and defective, they can also feel disdainful and exempt from ordinary ways of living. They typically have problems with melancholy, self-indulgence, and self-pity.

Basic Fear: That they have no identity or personal significance
Basic Desire: To find themselves and their significance (to create an
identity)

Key Motivations: Want to express themselves and their individuality, to create and surround themselves with beauty, to maintain certain moods and feelings, to withdraw to protect their self-image, to take care of emotional needs before attending to anything else, to attract a "rescuer."

I'm pretty sure this used to be my type, but I'm not sure if it is nowadays. Yes I really do want to create and surround myself with beauty, to maintain certain moods and feelings, and to express my individuality. These are main goals in my life. I still am sensitive, emotionally honest, creative, moody, and self-conscious. I've read that this type gets created when a child with an active personality (dominant, expressive, assertive) gets met with a somewhat distant parenting style, which causes the child to feel invalidated and insignificant. This was spot on, for me.

Then I was lucky enough to make friends who persistently validated my sense of identity, that I was 'unique' and 'special' in my own way, and I grew to feel confident about this. Now I have a solid sense of self, knowing that there's no one else quite like me, but I'm still more like other people than I am different from them (which does not bother me in the least). I don't often worry about losing my identity, anymore.

E5:

Fives are alert, insightful, and curious. They are able to concentrate and focus on developing complex ideas and skills. Independent, innovative, and inventive, they can also become preoccupied with their thoughts and imaginary constructs. They become detached, yet high-strung and intense. They typically have problems with eccentricity, nihilism, and isolation. At their Best: visionary pioneers, often ahead of their time, and able to see the world in an entirely new way.

Basic Fear: Being useless, helpless, or incapable
Basic Desire: To be capable and competent

Key Motivations: Want to possess knowledge, to understand the environment, to have everything figured out as a way of defending the self from threats from the environment.

The main parts I relate to here are the 'key motivations', and the part about being curious. Coming to understand something thoroughly is often satisfying. I do not want to be incapable, either (but who does, really?). I'm prone to isolating, too. However, I wouldn't describe myself as 'independent, innovative, and inventive'.

This could be me:

Behind Fives’ relentless pursuit of knowledge are deep insecurities about their ability to function successfully in the world. Fives feel that they do not have an ability to do things as well as others

But I don't feel like learning is this necessary (it's more like a hobby):

Being a Five means always needing to learn, to take in information about the world. A day without learning is like a day without ‘sunshine.’

Overall I relate to this type, generally, but I don't feel like the need to understand everything is such an enormous motivation in my life.

E6:

The committed, security-oriented type. Sixes are reliable, hard-working, responsible, and trustworthy. Excellent "troubleshooters," they foresee problems and foster cooperation, but can also become defensive, evasive, and anxious—running on stress while complaining about it. They can be cautious and indecisive, but also reactive, defiant and rebellious. They typically have problems with self-doubt and suspicion.

Basic Fear: Of being without support and guidance
Basic Desire: To have security and support

Key Motivations: Want to have security, to feel supported by others, to have certitude and reassurance, to test the attitudes of others toward them, to fight against anxiety and insecurity.

The problem with E6 is that they feel generally insecure and stressed out, I guess. I can relate to the concept of being regularly fearful and self-doubting (sadly). I still don't think I make a good troubleshooter. I keep my word (so in that way I'm reliable). I want to feel more secure in my own abilities, but I don't relate much to the idea of seeking security from the outside world. The books, movies, and real-life research topics that most interest me are suspense, horror, and 'taboo' or dark subjects that are impossible to thoroughly understand. I'm attracted to friends and potential dating interests who suprise me with spontaneous, quirky, or simply unpredictable behavior. Maybe this is still possible for 6s? I'm not sure.

E7:

Sevens are extroverted, optimistic, versatile, and spontaneous. Playful, high-spirited, and practical, they can also misapply their many talents, becoming over-extended, scattered, and undisciplined. They constantly seek new and exciting experiences, but can become distracted and exhausted by staying on the go. They typically have problems with impatience and impulsiveness.

Basic Fear: Of being deprived and in pain
Basic Desire: To be satisfied and content—to have their needs fulfilled

Key Motivations: Want to maintain their freedom and happiness, to avoid missing out on worthwhile experiences, to keep themselves excited and occupied, to avoid and discharge pain.

This is one of my favorite types to spend time with. Who doesn't want new and exciting experiences? To be free and happy? To avoid pain? I know I do

! I'm also pretty scattered, and need to learn better self-discipline. But I'm not more of an extravert than an introvert. I'm not prone to being optimistic, high-spirited, or constantly on the go. Also, by myself I don't seek out novelty as much as I've seen real-life 7s do automatically. I'm pretty content to just lounge at home with my art supplies, making little projects.

E8:

Eights are self-confident, strong, and assertive. Protective, resourceful, straight-talking, and decisive, but can also be ego-centric and domineering. Eights feel they must control their environment, especially people, sometimes becoming confrontational and intimidating. Eights typically have problems with their tempers and with allowing themselves to be vulnerable.

Basic Fear: Of being harmed or controlled by others
Basic Desire: To protect themselves (to be in control of their own life
and destiny)

Key Motivations: Want to be self-reliant, to prove their strength and resist weakness, to be important in their world, to dominate the environment, and to stay in control of their situation.

Here's a type I think "now I know I can't be that one!" until I get to reading it, and then I go "huh, yeah I have problems with being domineering and ego-centric sometimes - Mm-hm I do not want to let anyone else control me for anything - yeah I can be assertive when I need to be" etc. In some ways, being free to decide my own destiny is the most important thing in life, imo. I dislike religions for this reason, because they all involve some form of submitting to a 'higher power'. I am straight-talking and men especially have commented on this, saying I'm easier to communicate with than most women because I'm just upfront. But, I guess the overall aggressive, competitive, 8-like behavior is far from the norm for me. Normally I try to be accepting and accomodating for others, because I like to live in a harmonious atmosphere. When people have seen me defend myself, they usually expressed a lot of suprise afterwards.

E9:

Nines are accepting, trusting, and stable. They are usually creative, optimistic, and supportive, but can also be too willing to go along with others to keep the peace. They want everything to go smoothly and be without conflict, but they can also tend to be complacent, simplifying problems and minimizing anything upsetting. They typically have problems with inertia and stubbornness.

Basic Fear: Of loss and separation
Basic Desire: To have inner stability "peace of mind"

Key Motivations: Want to create harmony in their environment, to avoid conflicts and tension, to preserve things as they are, to resist whatever would upset or disturb them.

I almost would label myself this type. It resonates a lot with the main difficulties I am facing lately with overcoming intertia, facing internal conflict, and driving against resistance to become productive. Lately I really fear feeling any sort of internal disharmony, but I'm trying to grow out of this. For instance, I often feel multiple conflicting motivations, and it's impossible to satisfy them all at once, so to cause the least amount of discomfort I will resort to doing nothing

But 9s seem to be characterized as avoiding interpersonal conflict, and tending towards being submissive. Whereas I set boundaries without much difficulty. It's only within myself that I can't stand conflict.

what they generally do not have is a sense of really inhabiting themselves—a strong sense of their own identity.

Ironically, therefore, the only type the Nine is not like is the Nine itself. Being a separate self, an individual who must assert herself against others, is terrifying to Nines. They would rather melt into someone else or quietly follow their idyllic daydreams.

I do have a sense of my identity, and asserting myself against others is not terrifying.

"I am aware of focusing on other people, wondering what they are like, how and where they live, etc. In a relationship with others, I often give up my own agenda in favor of the other person’s. I have to be on guard about giving in to other’s demands and discounting my own legitimate needs."

Doesn't sound like me at all...
Lastly it says "Nines must remember that the only way out is through..." This idea has been necessary for me, lately.

So to sum up, all of these types feel half relatable, half not. I have each of the motivations (at least a little bit), but none of them stand out as more important than the others (except maybe 9's). Thanks to anybody who has read this, I hope it wasn't too painful or long of a read (I assume only big enneagram enthusiasts would read this). If there's anyone else out there who's not sure about their enneagram type, you can see you're not alone.

**silke** · 06-29-2018, 11:02 PM

How much do you relate to this type?

... Then at some point I really liked the system and thought I was every type because I could see myself in every type! I thought I was an 8, 5, 4, 2, 7...at some point I was dead set. But now I am wondering so, first of all, can any other 9's relate to that? Is that a 9 thing?

... Enneagram type 9 can have a good relationship with any type. Type 9 has bits and pieces of every type in their personality so they easily relate to all types.

**Xaiviay** · 06-29-2018, 11:20 PM

Originally Posted by silke

How much do you relate to this type?

Lol yeah silke, taking that into account does make me consider 9 even more xD

**idontgiveaf** · 07-01-2018, 08:20 AM

I relate to all socionics and jung type and mbti type all

**Xaiviay** · 07-01-2018, 11:14 PM

Originally Posted by idontgiveaf

I relate to all socionics and jung type and mbti type all

Yeah me too, but at least with Socionics, for me, it's really clear which ones I have the most in common with

**squark** · 07-02-2018, 01:56 PM

I see enneagram types as specific types of problems. You don't have to have one of these problems. Be thankful if you don't. . . although you may have other problems of course. It's probably only useful for people who are a clear type, knowing what and where your issues are and where they come from. Of course some people do have issues and they are blind to them, so there's always that. 1s, 5s and 4s usually rapidly find themselves in the type descriptions and recognize how it applies to them. Other types have varying degrees of success.

Also, the healthier a person is, the less these issues will effect them, and the more the types will blend together. It's really easiest imo to look at how you are at your worst, where do you go, what are those key problems that show up when you're being a crappy human being hah. The integration/disintegration lines also apply. For example,

**idontgiveaf** · 07-02-2018, 08:00 PM

Originally Posted by Xaiviay

Yeah me too, but at least with Socionics, for me, it's really clear which ones I have the most in common with

Meee nuuu relate me ambivert

**WVBRY** · 07-02-2018, 08:45 PM

I don't know my enneagram either. I can't figure it out. I relate to several types (not all, but enough for it to be confusing).

Asking around on forums and filling out questionnaires doesn't help either, there is no consensus. I've been typed as a three, four, five, six, seven, and eight.

My SEI aunt who knows a little about enngeagram thinks I'm a four, but she doesn't understand socionics and an LIE four seems odd (I'm more certain of my socionics type compared to enneagram).

I might make a thread about it.

Thought of the say: the enneagram was not originally conceived as a typology tool. It was something that represented the nine human fixations, and you could be a different fixation, basically on a different "point" of the enneagram depending on your life period. This use of the enneagram might actually make more sense than saying we have a single fixation that we return to throughout our lives.

**Xaiviay** · 07-02-2018, 09:05 PM

Originally Posted by squark

I see enneagram types as specific types of problems. You don't have to have one of these problems. Be thankful if you don't. . . although you may have other problems of course. It's probably only useful for people who are a clear type, knowing what and where your issues are and where they come from. Of course some people do have issues and they are blind to them, so there's always that. 1s, 5s and 4s usually rapidly find themselves in the type descriptions and recognize how it applies to them. Other types have varying degrees of success.

Also, the healthier a person is, the less these issues will effect them, and the more the types will blend together. It's really easiest imo to look at how you are at your worst, where do you go, what are those key problems that show up when you're being a crappy human being hah. The integration/disintegration lines also apply. For example,

Yeah, I think this is all really good input. Your self-description reminds me of a couple family members I know who are also Ne POLRs and whom I've typed as E1s (one of them is strikingly E1, the other I'm not positive on) so I understand how you go through that tricky process. It's interesting to see the likeness, also.

In terms of my personal issues (: p) I probably relate most closely to 9, then, but I don't fit it perfectly. When I'm at my crappiest, I get avoidant, numbed out, lost in fantasies, just unwilling to exert myself or face life as is-like E9.

Well actually this is quite uplifting, because now I have an inspirational 'blueprint' of sorts to work towards (just looked back at the spoiler in your post and you've already described it the same way!). Supposedly 9s at their best are unstoppable and highly productive. I'd be much happier if I could become that way.

**Xaiviay** · 07-02-2018, 09:31 PM

Originally Posted by Avebury

I don't know my enneagram either. I can't figure it out. I relate to several types (not all, but enough for it to be confusing).

Asking around on forums and filling out questionnaires doesn't help either, there is no consensus. I've been typed as a three, four, five, six, seven, and eight.

My SEI aunt who knows a little about enngeagram thinks I'm a four, but she doesn't understand socionics and an LIE four seems odd (I'm more certain of my socionics type compared to enneagram).

I might make a thread about it.

Thought of the say: the enneagram was not originally conceived as a typology tool. It was something that represented the nine human fixations, and you could be a different fixation, basically on a different "point" of the enneagram depending on your life period. This use of the enneagram might actually make more sense than saying we have a single fixation that we return to throughout our lives.

If you make a thread about it, that would be interesting.

Yes the enneagram as a representation of the 9 human fixations rather than a typology tool makes more sense. For instance, virtually all teenagers go through a period of wanting to develop their sense of identity more than anything, much like E4.

And yes, a LIE 4 does sound unusual, though I guess it wouldn't be impossible. It seems like type 4 gets thrown around the most among people who love typology (and that would make sense, since 4 is the type most concerned with establishing a separate identity), but it's not always used accurately, imo.

**Xaiviay** · 07-02-2018, 09:42 PM

Originally Posted by idontgiveaf

Meee nuuu relate me ambivert

Have you seen this thread? http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...02#post1282302
With this video in it? https://youtu.be/QrBJ88ZmA4Y
Just in case it'd be interesting for you.

You might not be a Sociotype. Personally, I don't think everybody is, and I also think your type can change throughout your life. From what I've seen, that's pretty rare, but it still happens.

**xerx** · 07-09-2018, 08:18 PM

you're made up of all the enneagram types. and all the instincts too.

**Spermatozoa** · 07-09-2018, 08:47 PM

From my own observations, one's Enneagram type often changes as level of health improves, enabling a more sober and objective assessment of personal strengths and weaknesses. What Enneagram seeks to analyse (core fears and desires) will be uncomfortable, hence one way to find your true type, which I agree with, is to figure out which of the descriptions you'd be most embarrassed by.

Also, I often urge people to avoid stereotypical descriptions of each type and instead focus on the core aspects of positive and negative feedback for each type's neurosis, which won't change depending on your level of health.

Lastly, if you take an Enneagram test don't assume that the type you score highest in will necessarily be your true type. Consider the second highest type as well.

**maniac** · 07-09-2018, 08:53 PM

i think this comes from a misunderstanding or lack of understanding of the system

**malignantwench** · 09-11-2018, 07:09 AM

I think that the people that relate to all are 6s. The 6 can easily relate to all of the fears because they are a fear-based type.

**malignantwench** · 09-11-2018, 07:10 AM

Originally Posted by eko

i think this comes from a misunderstanding or lack of understanding of the system

Ikr? It's not quantum psychics. I feel like they are just 6s that avoiding identifying as 6s.

**Xaiviay** · 09-15-2018, 06:33 AM

Originally Posted by malignantwench

Ikr? It's not quantum psychics. I feel like they are just 6s that avoiding identifying as 6s.

Well I finally settled on 9, but then your comments got me thinking

Well maybe I am 6 after all...

Thanks for your feedback, anyway.

**WVBRY** · 09-15-2018, 09:31 AM

I don't discuss or use enneagram as a typing system much anymore, but my understanding is that 3s and 9s can also relate to all or several types.

**Aramas** · 09-15-2018, 07:22 PM

You probably just haven't learned the Enneagram well enough. Read Naranjo's book, Character and Neurosis. It'll help.

**Vespertine** · 09-15-2018, 08:47 PM

How does one figure out enneagram type? I don’t know.
To some it simply happens.
To others it seems like a hell of a long ride.

I figured out my Etype without proper knowledge of enneagram, in fact, I was attracted to one type without even knowing what it meant and that's actually the type I fit in... even though I get another one in tests, lol.
I did try to live up to the test type, it seemed more valorising, yet it was not right, more like my natural bookworm inclination got me that score.
I read of enneagram that its goal is to go through all types. Generous, assertive, fun-loving, knowledgeable, unique... if we strip down Etypes of their core fear, they all just describe a human being in different moments, in different situations trying to be the best they can.

I think it's in our worst times, when we act in toxic ways that it is the easiest to figure out this type, not on a good day with friend around tea... then again, I love the harshness of life more than its beauty, so #uselessopinion #lol

**Aramas** · 09-15-2018, 11:34 PM

It took me a long time. I had to read the right material that described the type in a way that I could identify with it. Nothing but Naranjo's work did that for me. There's always the issue that with this sort of thing, 100% certainty doesn't exist. So you can doubt it your whole life. Of course, with others, I often reach a very high degree of certainty very easily, in spite of all this.

People should indeed be wary of trying to act like a type. If you're a type, your behavior, no matter what, falls within that frame. If you're acting, nothing you do will make you that type.

Btw, by long time, I mean about 10-12 years. So, yeah, it can take a while. A lot of this typology stuff depends on how aware you are of yourself and other people. You have to get certain experiences to be able to form an accurate self-perception. For some really fucked up people, or for people who haven't tried, seen, or experienced much, that can take a long time.

If you're like me, and your life basically reolved around your parents your entire childhood and young adulthood, it kinda takes an epic journey to figure things out, no matter how old you are. I often felt like a kid compared to other people until this happened, and I often still do. I sometimes even wonder if I'm mistaken that feeling like a kid implies that one really is or is somehow immature. There are plenty of people who think they are adults who act very much like toddlers and quite a lot of adults who are really just dead inside. Stages of maturity don't really make sense to me as static things. If you're an adult who has forgotten how to be a kid, you're essentially becoming a child again in a negative way.

Self-discovery is difficult at times. There are things we could have known about ourselves a long time ago if only we had the right context for them. Sometimes, certain states of mind and being are only recognizable when one exists outside them. So if you've been nothing but depressed, even since childhood, being not depressed can be a new experience that you don't really understand and recognize very easily until you've experienced it for a while. I never thought of myself as depressed as a kid, but I really was quite bad off. In recent years, my emotions have been much more torrential than they were in my childhood and teenage years, but at least I'm feeling something now.

There's no real formula for this stuff. There are no rules. Don't listen to anyone who pegs you into a category you don't feel like being pegged as. Eventually, you'll learn enough from experience that you'll be able to decide on your own where you belong. That doesn't just apply to typology. It's a method that works for life too.

Just fyi, if you're an odd type combo in Socionics and Enneagram, it might be hard for others to type you, and you to type yourself, because you don't fit the stereotypes of the descriptions, which usually stick to only the most common forms and combinations.

One word of caution: don't spend so much time on typology that you forget to live. Once you live enough, typology will follow. The one good thing about it is that it promotes self-observation which can eventually lead to understanding and happiness. But, if it's all you do, that'll never happen, because you're missing out on life experiences.

**Xaiviay** · 09-16-2018, 09:43 PM

Originally Posted by NorthernRose

How does one figure out enneagram type? I don’t know.
To some it simply happens.
To others it seems like a hell of a long ride.

I figured out my Etype without proper knowledge of enneagram, in fact, I was attracted to one type without even knowing what it meant and that's actually the type I fit in... even though I get another one in tests, lol.
I did try to live up to the test type, it seemed more valorising, yet it was not right, more like my natural bookworm inclination got me that score.
I read of enneagram that its goal is to go through all types. Generous, assertive, fun-loving, knowledgeable, unique... if we strip down Etypes of their core fear, they all just describe a human being in different moments, in different situations trying to be the best they can.

I think it's in our worst times, when we act in toxic ways that it is the easiest to figure out this type, not on a good day with friend around tea... then again, I love the harshness of life more than its beauty, so #uselessopinion #lol

That's cool that you found the type you fit in as the one you were attracted to!

I like that idea of the goal being to go through all types...I used to be so fixated on 4 problems and it was pretty much a living hell, but finally I developed a confident sense of my personal 'uniqueness' and significance. Because of that I can look around at other people and see how much I have in common with them, and not feel like my identity is being threatened (something that was hard for me to do in the past), so I think it's pretty clear that I'm 'over' the problems of 4 (that is, if you can ever say you're 100% over something).

But I still have other issues...the inaction of 9s, and the stress of 6s, etc. So it's not like I'm some 'enlightened being' who's become all healthy, like the Enneagram implies. I just grew healthier in some ways.

At any rate, all these core motivations/fears are there in the human psyche for good reasons. I'm not sure if I take the Enneagram as seriously as a typology like Socionics, but more like as a good roadmap for personal development, like @squark and @Avebury mentioned. At any rate, it's fun to think about, and it's also a quick way to indicate to somebody else what your overall personality is like.

Originally Posted by Aramas

Just fyi, if you're an odd type combo in Socionics and Enneagram, it might be hard for others to type you, and you to type yourself, because you don't fit the stereotypes of the descriptions, which usually stick to only the most common forms and combinations.

One word of caution: don't spend so much time on typology that you forget to live. Once you live enough, typology will follow. The one good thing about it is that it promotes self-observation which can eventually lead to understanding and happiness. But, if it's all you do, that'll never happen, because you're missing out on life experiences.

I like this part, thanks Aramas!

It took me a long time. I had to read the right material that described the type in a way that I could identify with it. Nothing but Naranjo's work did that for me. There's always the issue that with this sort of thing, 100% certainty doesn't exist. So you can doubt it your whole life. Of course, with others, I often reach a very high degree of certainty very easily, in spite of all this.

Ahh I see, thanks for the recommendation. Yes there are very different ways to relate to the core motivations, and not all people manifest them the same. It's good to find one that resonates with you, finally.

Thanks for sharing your experiences and perspectives

**SaveYourself** · 09-17-2018, 09:20 AM

I don't know if you've been on Personality Cafe yet but in their enneagram section they have chapters of books copied and you don't need an account to read them. I find Naranjo tough but many people swear by him so probably worth the effort if you're less monkey minded / have a better attention span than me. Personally I find Maitri clearer. I have a book called Facets of Unity: The Enneagram of Holy Ideas by A H Almaas which I find good because it doesn't give type descriptions (like behavioural ones) but just examines the core idea / ego-fixation in detail. I think this sort of description is also why people like Naranjo.

So maybe start at The Enneagram Institute website and look at their descriptions + health levels like Squark mentioned and try and narrow it down. Then go to either Naranjo or Almaas and check the type there. Then Maitri and more general descriptions if you're still unclear. I also really like Chesnut's descriptions of type + dominant instinct (these are def available on PerC) which also might explain where you don't quite fit general descriptions but probably should come last.

And also take all of this with a grain of salt because I'm still on my enneagram journey too (in a similar boat to you! I always test 7, followed by 4 but I think 6 or 9 is more likely and 6 being my current favourite). But this is what I've found most helpful!

**malignantwench** · 09-18-2018, 11:33 PM

Originally Posted by Avebury

I don't discuss or use enneagram as a typing system much anymore, but my understanding is that 9s can also relate to all or several types.

It's so annoying when non-9s say this. 9's relate to elements of the other types not all their fears and motives.

**malignantwench** · 09-18-2018, 11:35 PM

Originally Posted by Xaiviay

Well I finally settled on 9, but then your comments got me thinking

Well maybe I am 6 after all...

Thanks for your feedback, anyway.

This is a typical 6 thing. Plenty of 6s that even settle on 6, think that they may be something else.

**malignantwench** · 09-18-2018, 11:42 PM

Since someone rightfully brought up the Holy Ideas.

Type 6 is about the loss of Holy Faith. 6's at some point in their early development felt that nothing was trustworthy, safe, or reliable. This was unacceptable to them, so they attempt to create security by looking for an authority (someone or something they can rely on). But they are also disconnected from Holy Faith and so they doubt whatever authority or form of security they find, looking for signs that these sources may not be reliable or trustworthy. 6's want to trust and to feel safe and secure, yet they are doubting and hypervigilant because deep down they feel that nothing is trustworthy, safe, or reliable.

Type 9 is about the loss of Holy Love. 9's at some point in their early development felt that love is not real or significant, therefore nothing really matters. This was unacceptable to them, so they attempt to recreate Holy Love by adopting comforting and peaceful philosophies and attitudes ("live and let live"). They choose to believe in the goodness of people and the world, in peace and love, and in happiness. But 9's are cut off from real happiness and love, becoming numb and apathetic, because deep down they still feel that nothing really matters.

**Xaiviay** · 09-19-2018, 03:10 AM

Originally Posted by malignantwench

Since someone rightfully brought up the Holy Ideas.

Type 6 is about the loss of Holy Faith. 6's at some point in their early development felt that nothing was trustworthy, safe, or reliable. This was unacceptable to them, so they attempt to create security by looking for an authority (someone or something they can rely on). But they are also disconnected from Holy Faith and so they doubt whatever authority or form of security they find, looking for signs that these sources may not be reliable or trustworthy. 6's want to trust and to feel safe and secure, yet they are doubting and hypervigilant because deep down they feel that nothing is trustworthy, safe, or reliable.

Type 9 is about the loss of Holy Love. 9's at some point in their early development felt that love is not real or significant, therefore nothing really matters. This was unacceptable to them, so they attempt to recreate Holy Love by adopting comforting and peaceful philosophies and attitudes ("live and let live"). They choose to believe in the goodness of people and the world, in peace and love, and in happiness. But 9's are cut off from real happiness and love, becoming numb and apathetic, because deep down they still feel that nothing really matters.

Hmm, actually I do relate more to the 9 description, considering these.

The main problem I have, is I lack motivation/energy to get off my butt and do things. Most things don't seem worthwhile enough to spend the energy necessary to get them done, or deal with the internal discomfort I'll feel when forcing myself to do them. It's a very Si-lead, Te-PoLR, and Se-ignoring sort of problem, too

. Darn SEIs! x'D

Of course, when I am actually productive, I feel better (generally speaking).

I deal with anxiety regularly, but the anxiety is more of a fear of pain and discomfort (emotionally, physically), than a fear of things not being trustworthy.

**Xaiviay** · 09-19-2018, 04:18 AM

Originally Posted by mrrrmaid

I don't know if you've been on Personality Cafe yet but in their enneagram section they have chapters of books copied and you don't need an account to read them. I find Naranjo tough but many people swear by him so probably worth the effort if you're less monkey minded / have a better attention span than me. Personally I find Maitri clearer. I have a book called Facets of Unity: The Enneagram of Holy Ideas by A H Almaas which I find good because it doesn't give type descriptions (like behavioural ones) but just examines the core idea / ego-fixation in detail. I think this sort of description is also why people like Naranjo.

So maybe start at The Enneagram Institute website and look at their descriptions + health levels like Squark mentioned and try and narrow it down. Then go to either Naranjo or Almaas and check the type there. Then Maitri and more general descriptions if you're still unclear. I also really like Chesnut's descriptions of type + dominant instinct (these are def available on PerC) which also might explain where you don't quite fit general descriptions but probably should come last.

And also take all of this with a grain of salt because I'm still on my enneagram journey too (in a similar boat to you! I always test 7, followed by 4 but I think 6 or 9 is more likely and 6 being my current favourite). But this is what I've found most helpful!

Yes I have been on PersonalityCafe and I love their enneagram descriptions!

I checked out some of Maitri, Naranjo, and Almaas. I think my overall life really points to 9 most of all, these days...both the unhealthy levels, and the healthy levels. Laziness is generally my worst problem. Having trouble caring enough about things to get them done, and avoiding internal conflict...Being peaceful, amiable, open, receptive, etc
I can see myself moving between 9 connected to 6, and sometimes a little bit of 9 connected to 3. I'd never read those descriptions. Thanks @Cold Fat <3

Naranjo's description of sx-9s hits the nail on the head for me, much more than 6 or 4:

SUBTYPE KEY: Fusion
This subtype fuses deeply with significant others in relationships as a strategy to feed their sense of self and sense of comfort. They tend to feel more secure when partnered with others and may find it challenging to be on their own.

This has been my strongest desire ever since I was 12, actually...Even when I identified as 4, I never really related to the common description of sx-4s, where they are described as competitive...so it kind of makes me doubt my past typing of 4

Also, I relate to the Naranjo description of 9w8, more than 9w1. So that helps to clear up some things I was wondering about.

You always test as 7, huh? 7 is pretty much my favorite type. I always love spending time with them, but it's pretty obvious that I'm not as proactive about pursuing new experiences as they are. So I can understand why you'd get mixed results on that, if you feel similarly. And you get 4 (I always test as 4 lol) and you think 6 or 9 is more likely-yup we are in the same boat

Oh, you've removed your TIM! I was going to say Marilyn Monroe was also a SEI-Fe Enneagram6 like you're thinking about (I love Marilyn Monroe!), but maybe you're not sure about SEI after all?

**SaveYourself** · 09-19-2018, 09:16 AM

Originally Posted by Xaiviay

You always test as 7, huh? 7 is pretty much my favorite type. I always love spending time with them, but it's pretty obvious that I'm not as proactive about pursuing new experiences as they are. So I can understand why you'd get mixed results on that, if you feel similarly. And you get 4 (I always test as 4 lol) and you think 6 or 9 is more likely-yup we are in the same boat

Oh, you've removed your TIM! I was going to say Marilyn Monroe was also a SEI-Fe Enneagram6 like you're thinking about (I love Marilyn Monroe!), but maybe you're not sure about SEI after all?

Yeah all the surface level stuff about four (romanticism, authenticity etc) and seven (possibilities, idealism, escapism) that tend to come up on tests are all stuff I heavily relate to. I think my optimism always puts my 7 score up high as well, since that's not usually a word associated with sixes. And when I was typing as a 7 it was 7w6 so I'm just switching to 6w7. A healthy 7 is probably my idealised self. I guess that might be the same with you and a healthy 4?

You do seem more 9 than 6 or 4 based on my non-expert knowledge of enneagram. The Sx 9 description sounds like it could be in an SEI description

And all the stuff on this forum about instincts has been so helpful in figuring out mine, which in turn is helpful in figuring out main type because, like you, I relate to 4 but not to sx 4 (more like 4 sp/sx) and 1 but not sx 1 (so/sx there) etc whereas sx 6 fits much better.

As for my TIM

Yeah I'm having doubts but didn't want to bring them into my type me thread because that thing is a bit of a Frankenstein's monster in that it's 4 pages long and I've been typed 6 different types, 3 different quadras, 3 different temperaments, 4 different lead functions. So the longer it went on the less helpful it got. And I've changed types like 3 times in 3 months too so I figured I'd go solo to try get to the bottom of it. [NB: not that I'm not incredibly grateful for all the discussion and patience everyone had with me in the thread - just there's a lot of conflicting info]

As for SEI - (this is going to sound really lame, just a warning) when I "try on" a type I mostly read about their IR and their dual - specifically how they help their dual and how their dual helps them and what interaction between them is like. Then I imagine myself in that scenario with (an incredibly good looking) dual and walk through it in my head. This is how I realised I wasn't IEE because any time I imagined providing Ne help I realised I don't do that IRL and also how I realised I was Fe>Fi because I realised even an imaginary SLI would probably punch me in the face. So I've been doing this with SEI & ILE and am struggling to see how I would provide Si or notice any examples of me doing this irl. I'm not even sure whether Si (defining it as "resolution of discomforts" as Gulenko does for SEI) is something I even do for myself beyond extreme discomfort. Also I'm not a caregiver [victim > infantile > aggressor > caregiver for me] (a previous bf once suggested [in only slightly nicer terms] that I was a brat for the lack of caregivery stuff I do). And do I want an infantile man? Probably not - I know lots of them as friends and avoid them in relationships. The IE I see myself 'providing' the most is Fe, so back to ESE/EIE - but if not a caregiver then back to EIE. So I'm trying that on for size to see if it's a better fit and reading more about Ni / Se to try and understand that better. [/thread derail]

**WVBRY** · 09-19-2018, 10:36 AM

@malignantwench, what makes you know more about enneagram than the rest of us?

**malignantwench** · 09-19-2018, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by Avebury

@malignantwench, what makes you know more about enneagram than the rest of us?

I never claimed to. Are you just salty because I called you out for blindly stereotyping 9s?

**malignantwench** · 09-19-2018, 12:10 PM

Originally Posted by Xaiviay

Hmm, actually I do relate more to the 9 description, considering these.

The main problem I have, is I lack motivation/energy to get off my butt and do things. Most things don't seem worthwhile enough to spend the energy necessary to get them done, or deal with the internal discomfort I'll feel when forcing myself to do them.

Well a 6 could do those things to since they integrate to 9s. Were you like the 9 bit during childhood?

**WVBRY** · 09-19-2018, 03:16 PM

Originally Posted by malignantwench

I never claimed to. Are you just salty because I called you out for blindly stereotyping 9s?

That's pretty immature, referring to someone else's attitude as salty.

I'm not attacking you because you pointed out a flaw in my argument (I could be wrong just as anyone) but because you seem to posture as someone who knows others better than they know themsleves, when you haven't met me or anyone itt. You make the claim Xaiviay is a six who can't admit she's a six (why wouldn't she want to admit that?) but you've never met her, you're just drawing conclusions on zero data and your intuition. You're just pushing this idea that she's a six, and you are not open to any new data or anything she tells you, you just want to confirm your idea that she's a six. Furthermore, typing is quite personal, so your conviction she is not a nine (you self-type as a nine) seems to be a way of saying "I don't relate to you, you are not my type, we are different". And yes, it concerns me, too, I would guess, since I also made the claim itt of relating to many types.

The post where you quoted me and said I was wrong about 9s didn't bother me, what bothers me is your general attitude. You come off self-righteous and convinced of your own rightness, at least to me.

**Xaiviay** · 09-19-2018, 09:37 PM

Originally Posted by Avebury

I'm not attacking you because you pointed out a flaw in my argument (I could be wrong just as anyone) but because you seem to posture as someone who knows others better than they know themsleves, when you haven't met me or anyone itt. You make the claim Xaiviay is a six who can't admit she's a six (why wouldn't she want to admit that?) but you've never met her, you're just drawing conclusions on zero data and your intuition.

I appreciate you sticking up for me, Avebury (if that's what you were intending to do)! It did kind of bug me when she pushed a different type on me, at first. I've thought a lot about being a 6 before (since I have anxiety) so it can get kind of confusing, and it's not fun to be told you don't know yourself as well as others do, which it sounded like she was implying.
@malignantwench I appreciate that you've gotten some discussion going about the differences between 6 and 9, though, since it's helped me to consider these types more carefully.

Originally Posted by malignantwench

Well a 6 could do those things to since they integrate to 9s. Were you like the 9 bit during childhood?

Yes. I described the 'negative' feelings I had in childhood a little bit in the OP when talking about type 4-

I've read that this type gets created when a child with an active personality (dominant, expressive, assertive) gets met with a somewhat distant parenting style, which causes the child to feel invalidated and insignificant. This was spot on, for me.

I felt like the things I loved and felt strongly about were not reflected back to me enough, so they didn't matter (poor me

, blah blah). Actually, the 9 childhood description you brought up does bring up memories about feeling like love in general didn't matter, but I try not to feel this way.

To be completely honest, I did have a teenage phase where I lost trust in things I had previously relied on. So that could explain why I feel more affinity with 6 than 3, on that triangle in the Enneagram. But overall I recall feeling pretty stable and secure throughout childhood. The feelings of 'I can't trust anything' didn't stick with me as much as the feelings of 'I don't matter, love doesn't matter', even during my teenage phase.

Yes, doesn't a 6 integrate to 9s when they become more healthy? I manifest the unhealthy traits of 9s, though. It's not a healthy thing.

And also, addressing this point you brought up-

9's relate to elements of the other types not all their fears and motives.

I think we all have all 9 fears/motivations, it'd be weird otherwise...Who doesn't want to be correct, loved, admired/accomplished, authentic, knowledgeable, secure/safe, entertained, in control of their own life, and at peace? But true, at least to the degree that the fears are an overwhelming fixation, we're not all 9 types.

**Xaiviay** · 09-19-2018, 09:39 PM

And also, this isn't put out there to anyone in particular, but I think this is pretty interesting~
When i was a 4-ish teen, I was constantly examining my feelings and trying to base my identity off of them. I also had regular lucid dreams. Nowadays I don't have those dreams very often, but I learned that one way to lucid dream is to get in the habit of asking yourself whether you're asleep or awake (so that when you dream, you do the same thing out of habit, and become conscious that you're dreaming). I've been trying this lately and I've had a few lucid dreams again, so it seems to work.

In the past, I was always aware of whether or not i was sleeping, since I was so self-conscious. That's probably why I was also self-aware in dreams. Now when i ask myself the question, I don't really know whether I'm asleep or awake...I only have a pretty good idea because when I actually am dreaming and I ask that question, I do know! But awake, I feel numbed out, almost like I'm living life in a haze...and it's hard to tell for sure if I'm really awake. It's kind of disconcerting to realize this

If I really am a 9 now, and really was a 4 before, the difference in consciousness is pretty interesting.

**WVBRY** · 09-19-2018, 10:06 PM

Originally Posted by Xaiviay

I appreciate you sticking up for me, Avebury (if that's what you were intending to do)!

Kind of.

I mean, I don't think you were being attacked, and I think malignantwench's insights are pretty good as she seems to know the enneagram pretty well. Something did bother me about how she expressed herself though, like I said above.

She might know the system well but that doesn't mean she knows you. So I felt like pointing that out.

I don't mean to derail or anything just wanted to clarify that.

**malignantwench** · 09-19-2018, 10:28 PM

Originally Posted by Avebury

I'm not attacking you because you pointed out a flaw in my argument (I could be wrong just as anyone) but because you seem to posture as someone who knows others better than they know themsleves,

If she/he knew themselves then they wouldn't have trouble figuring out their type.

You make the claim Xaiviay is a six who can't admit she's a six (why wouldn't she want to admit that?) but you've never met her, you're just drawing conclusions on zero data and your intuition.

She/he probably is a 6 and the concept of being a 6 is often brushed under the carpet.

You're just pushing this idea that she's a six, and you are not open to any new data or anything she tells you, you just want to confirm your idea that she's a six.

Ok, this is BS. I'm not trying to push the idea of her/him being a 6. It's interesting how this is always the assumption when it is to do with type 6 but never when it is another type. For ex: I'm never told that i'm pushing type 2 towards someone because that type is actually respected.

Furthermore, typing is quite personal, so your conviction she is not a nine (you self-type as a nine) seems to be a way of saying "I don't relate to you, you are not my type, we are different". And yes, it concerns me, too, I would guess, since I also made the claim itt of relating to many types.

I don't relate to most 9w1s but I wouldn't say that they aren't 9s though.

The post where you quoted me and said I was wrong about 9s didn't bother me, what bothers me is your general attitude. You come off self-righteous and convinced of your own rightness, at least to me.

I only come off this way to people that don't know what they are talking about.

**Xaiviay** · 09-19-2018, 11:00 PM

Originally Posted by mrrrmaid

Yeah all the surface level stuff about four (romanticism, authenticity etc) and seven (possibilities, idealism, escapism) that tend to come up on tests are all stuff I heavily relate to. I think my optimism always puts my 7 score up high as well, since that's not usually a word associated with sixes. And when I was typing as a 7 it was 7w6 so I'm just switching to 6w7. A healthy 7 is probably my idealised self. I guess that might be the same with you and a healthy 4?

You do seem more 9 than 6 or 4 based on my non-expert knowledge of enneagram. The Sx 9 description sounds like it could be in an SEI description

And all the stuff on this forum about instincts has been so helpful in figuring out mine, which in turn is helpful in figuring out main type because, like you, I relate to 4 but not to sx 4 (more like 4 sp/sx) and 1 but not sx 1 (so/sx there) etc whereas sx 6 fits much better.

I feel you totally there, on the surface level stuff of 4s. Being optimistic is good! Admittedly I don't know you well enough to really tell, but I could see you being a type 6. I could definitely see you as 6w7 > 6w5. A healthy 7 is a good ideal, those are some of my favorite people

My ideal self would probably be a healthy 9 (which is a pretty productive type, when healthy!) with 4 and 7 qualities.

Thanks for your feedback on my type

Yeah, I like the discussions on this website about instincts, too. Yeah the instinctual stackings make things quite different for each type

This might not necessarily help with you considering your type, but it's kind of interesting! https://www.typologycentral.com/foru...-subtypes.html It's a description of the different instinctual stackings, depending on how strong your second instinct actually is.

As for my TIM

Yeah I'm having doubts but didn't want to bring them into my type me thread because that thing is a bit of a Frankenstein's monster in that it's 4 pages long and I've been typed 6 different types, 3 different quadras, 3 different temperaments, 4 different lead functions. So the longer it went on the less helpful it got. And I've changed types like 3 times in 3 months too so I figured I'd go solo to try get to the bottom of it. [NB: not that I'm not incredibly grateful for all the discussion and patience everyone had with me in the thread - just there's a lot of conflicting info]

As for SEI - (this is going to sound really lame, just a warning) when I "try on" a type I mostly read about their IR and their dual - specifically how they help their dual and how their dual helps them and what interaction between them is like. Then I imagine myself in that scenario with (an incredibly good looking) dual and walk through it in my head. This is how I realised I wasn't IEE because any time I imagined providing Ne help I realised I don't do that IRL and also how I realised I was Fe>Fi because I realised even an imaginary SLI would probably punch me in the face. So I've been doing this with SEI & ILE and am struggling to see how I would provide Si or notice any examples of me doing this irl. I'm not even sure whether Si (defining it as "resolution of discomforts" as Gulenko does for SEI) is something I even do for myself beyond extreme discomfort. Also I'm not a caregiver [victim > infantile > aggressor > caregiver for me] (a previous bf once suggested [in only slightly nicer terms] that I was a brat for the lack of caregivery stuff I do). And do I want an infantile man? Probably not - I know lots of them as friends and avoid them in relationships. The IE I see myself 'providing' the most is Fe, so back to ESE/EIE - but if not a caregiver then back to EIE. So I'm trying that on for size to see if it's a better fit and reading more about Ni / Se to try and understand that better. [/thread derail]

Lol oh I understand, that did become a really long thread! Everyone seemed to be having fun debating your type, though, so it's no problem. You're probably right to go off on your own, because you do need to do lots of introspection to really know what type fits best, I guess.

Nooo actually I don't think that sounds lame at all! It's probably a pretty good pointer for your type. I would do the same thing, since it's easier for me to tell what I want to have happen in a romantic relationship than most other circumstances. Hm, this does seem to point toward EIE for you o: I can give my persepctive on Si/Fe in romantic relationships, if that helps~Well, it's like if I love someone and I see him in any discomfort or anxiety at all (or he expresses to me that he doubts his abilities in something or another), I feel the urge to touch him soothingly (I have the primary love language of physical touch, so that's part of it), look into his eyes, and make him see that I feel unconditional love/admiration for him. It's a very comforting, non-challenging, "aaaw you shouldn't feel badly about yourself cause I'll always love you" sort of thing. Hahaha

I dated a SEE once, and he was pretty loathe to admit any vulnerabilites/insecurities he had in general, which kind of hurt me and made me feel shut out. The few times he did confide in me, and I did what I described up above, he recoiled from me like I was humiliating him. So, Si/Fe caregiving is not everyone's cup of tea! It really goes to show the differences in IM valuing.

**Xaiviay** · 09-19-2018, 11:45 PM

The post where you quoted me and said I was wrong about 9s didn't bother me, what bothers me is your general attitude. You come off self-righteous and convinced of your own rightness, at least to me.

I only come off this way to people that don't know what they are talking about.

^example of self-righteousness

Originally Posted by malignantwench

She/he probably is a 6

then

I'm not trying to push the idea of her/him being a 6.

Hmmm, you identify as a 9, yet choose the username 'malignantwench', easily get defensive, and put down Avebury when he disagrees with you. Then you think you're qualified to judge whether or not other people know themselves~this is kind of ironic.

**Vespertine** · 09-19-2018, 11:48 PM

Originally Posted by mrrrmaid

As for SEI - (this is going to sound really lame, just a warning) when I "try on" a type I mostly read about their IR and their dual - specifically how they help their dual and how their dual helps them and what interaction between them is like. Then I imagine myself in that scenario with (an incredibly good looking) dual and walk through it in my head. This is how I realised I wasn't IEE because any time I imagined providing Ne help I realised I don't do that IRL and also how I realised I was Fe>Fi because I realised even an imaginary SLI would probably punch me in the face. So I've been doing this with SEI & ILE and am struggling to see how I would provide Si or notice any examples of me doing this irl. I'm not even sure whether Si (defining it as "resolution of discomforts" as Gulenko does for SEI) is something I even do for myself beyond extreme discomfort. Also I'm not a caregiver [victim > infantile > aggressor > caregiver for me] (a previous bf once suggested [in only slightly nicer terms] that I was a brat for the lack of caregivery stuff I do). And do I want an infantile man? Probably not - I know lots of them as friends and avoid them in relationships. The IE I see myself 'providing' the most is Fe, so back to ESE/EIE - but if not a caregiver then back to EIE. So I'm trying that on for size to see if it's a better fit and reading more about Ni / Se to try and understand that better. [/thread derail]

Not lame.
Interesting.
Thank you for sharing.

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