EII are not too. They avoid open conflicts, but protect by rising the distance and may switch to direct conflict as the last mean. Also they have lesser conflicts as better adopt to people or avoid potentially problematic people. It's other way of dealing with people, which leads to not worse result. EII act more delicately and wise.Originally Posted by Xaiviay
EII: A Holy Type.
OP you are not holy enough.
Do you know any LSEs or SLEs? I find it incredible how SEIs get along so shiny and glowy and happily with SLEs but all I can do with them is being ultra careful not to offend and not to be offended. While with LSEs, I simply feel drawn. I have witnessed the SEIs around me are extremely vulnerable towards LSEs and get easily offended. But maybe you don't happily type the others around you, do you?A long winded post about SEI vs EII; typing is a changing facet. Feedback is welcome, particularly from SEIs who can hopefully advise if my conclusions are sensible or not
For a long time I have identified more with Fi/Ne ego in both mbti and socionics than the proposed Si/Fe ego typing that others have given me...primarily because I can’t see any case of me being ‘strong’ at Se and weaker at Ne. I have prided myself on being imaginative, considering all possibilities...in my own head a lot, dreamy, poetic... the stereotypes that SEI are not supposed to embody.
Yet, despite my disagreements with SEI being an option for myself, I have recently been focusing on the outside in, analysing how I am reacting in my new job situation, what my natural way of being is when I am not plagued by anxiety; for a long time I have felt non type-able due to my neurotic nerves. Another reason why I doubted I could be an Ip type. There’s no way you would call be ‘laidback and easygoing’. Except...on further reading I’ve discovered that it’s actually the stable temperaments I.e. Ijs and Ejs who come across as unflappably in control while Ips can come across as calming and accepting but also moody and changeable. Which perhaps explains my temperament better. I can be easygoing with others and have been told that I am a calming welcoming influence on others, gentle, shy yet accommodating.
But what about my lack of will power volitional sensing? I can’t deny that I’m not good with Se. SEIs are meant to be good but ignoring of it. I can’t see a case for me being good at it or even Si. Though I am learning through my new job and growing esteem that I am not as bad as I have believe I have been. I did an abseil for charity last year off a 7 story building. I wasn’t fearless. But I wanted to challenge myself and have the experience. And I’ve also felt gross and unfashionable for my whole adolescent and young adult life (I saw my clumsiness with colours and makeup as proof of weak Si). But I am hopefully finding my stride now and on looking back at some of my outfit choices, experimental and formal occasion wear, I wasn’t actually as terrible as I thought I looked. So my point is maybe the things I believed I sucked at are actually the things I am now realising that I was never that weak at in the first place?
Who knows? I also didn’t see myself as a caregiver. Pseudocaregiver or Victim as more likely. But I would say I do naturally fall into the roll of looking after others needs, giving them a emotional, mental and physical ‘safe space’. I kinda adapt to what others need and expect from me. Sounds a bit doormat-like when I put it like this. I do tend to neglect my own preferences and needs for others but only up to a certain point. I do try to look after my own physical mental and emotional well-being, usually by retreating into daydream, curled up in fluffy bed socks with a book land.
I relate more to fictional types SEIs than EIIs; I can see myself more in the overarching characterisations of those who are soft spoken, friendly, try to see the positives while sometimes being a bit insecure and unsure of their abilities. Maybe a hallmark of weak valued Ne is the fact that I see mostly negative possibilities or none at all, and freak myself out?
Anyways, I find it harder now to be firm in my EII self typing. I always thought if I wasn’t EII I was definitely IEI or an intuitive. Sensors get bad raps. Little wonder why I’ve stifled the prospect of being one for a long time. Who wants to admit out loud to even their self that they’re not a fantastical N unicorn creature and instead typecast as a hedonist with no imagination or integrity?
Again, thank you to anyone who’s read this all through. Any feedback from typed Alpha SFs or Delta NFs would be helpful for further clarity
From your descriptions, I will definitely gravitate towards 'SEI' for you rather than any N type. I have an SEI philosopher as colleague and she is permanently mentioning intuition, dreams and ideas she has. She never explains them though, she says they are 'private'. I used to have an SEI friend and she also always, always, always came up with incredible ideas related to her everyday life and so on. If you see the WSS benchmark typings, they type for example Björk as SEI. I mean, who is more 'unicorny' and colorful among musical celebrities than her?
Do you have a lot of clothes? Do you tend to spend time on choosing, buying, fitting stuff together? Or do you just wear black? Or are you annoyed by having to look Ok? That might help you type yourself. SEIs I know judge people (knowingly or unknowingly) based on the shoes they wear, the colors of their clothes, whether or not they wear loose or tight things etc. Also I see the Ti valuing very strongly in SEIs, although they might not seem very Ti-based at first glance.
As an EII, I am less 'calming and accepting but also moody and changeable'; I am more in the 'sensitive, stubborn but an extraordinarily good listener's category. I have a strange tendency to become an ear for other people "without having asked any questions from them" . SEIs ask questions. We don't. We are jjst ears, for no clear reason.
@MrsTortilla thank you for sharing your wisdom. I know it’s not true about any type being more deeper/smart than others. I guess I have been subconsciously drinking from the intuitive bias’ cool aid :/
@consentingadult duly noted. My Ti is skewed. I need more interesting museums and artsy movies. Got it
@Xaiviay wow you’ve listed lots! Thank you again for a detailed response, and lots of encouragement. You’re the sweet one! Also I am glad to hear about your insights as a SEI who did selftype as FiNe too. I definitely relate to the part about being so open minded and intellectually curious; I guess in MBTI terms, open mindedness is Ne? Hence the confusion.
Also i would say caregiver is the term that I second to last relate to. Infantile and even victim made more sense for me; I feel like I need looked after in the sense of feeling safe, accepted as I am, following someone else’s lead. I wouldn’t say I am in touch with my sexuality, a bit head in the clouds and hesitant to show interest :/ but my motivation in relationships is to please others (ugh, sounds so meek and spineless). I think some of my fears stem from the memories I have of letting others down.
Sorry, I do have some more brain picking to perform on you if that’s ok? I can private message you if that’s preferable?
Certainly! I'll get to back to your messages soon, I don't have a lot of time right now, but feel free to message me
Just really quick about caregiving--I need to be taken care of too (being accepted as I am, encouraged, shown better/more efficient ways of looking at things, and so on), I think everyone does. Generally SEI is the more passive one in getting a relationship started, I think. Because they're the introverted one, while the ILE extravert takes the lead in some ways. Nooo I don't think being motivated to please others in a relationship is 'meek and spineless', without that motivation how would anybody form a relationship with anyone? You just need to protect your own interests too, of course!
Yeah, I was once confused on the 'open-mindedness' part too. I thought I must be an intuitive because I loved theoretical ideas. Nope, everyone values intuition in some way or another, they just prefer either Ne or Ni.
No, you misunderstood: you need SOMEONE to take you to these places and let them take the initiative. If you go there by yourself, it doesn't work that well ;-)@consentingadult duly noted. My Ti is skewed. I need more interesting museums and artsy movies. Got it
In return, you can bake them cookies and teach them how to dance properly!
“I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking
Hmm I’m not sure if I have really had much dealings with either LSE or SLE. I do admire LSE work ethic and ability to get things done. SLEs I admire their confidence though definitely would say they are the opposite of me. Tend to be loud and take up a lot of space both physically and psychologically. Whereas I am quiet and non impactful, or at least not straightforwardly.
I do tend to base my daydreams around my everyday life being infused with some extraordinary situations, usually inspired by stories I’ve read or watched.
Oh Bjork I’m sure gets “typed” as INFP MBTI but I have read too that WSS and other sources think she is SEI. She is a fair bit kooky coming across...but I do think a lot is her just having fun and putting on a show. Unicorny...yes, I like that aesthetic but in everyday life I’m too self conscious to go full on glitter and ethereal madness
i don’t have a lot of clothes at the moment due to trying to refine my wardrobe into my ideals of how I want to look and also take into account what colours and cut of clothes works best for my physical form aka body shape, colouring. I am really critical of how I look, and usually think I am dressed sloppily and look gross, even when other people have commented how nice I look. I’m always a bit surprised though really flattered. I don’t judge if people are good or bad sorts depending on their clothes but I guess I do kinda make assumptions? Like, ‘oh she is wearing ripped jeans, she must be a tomboy sort rocker chick. Cool!’ or ‘he is smartly dressed..hmmm must be an LXX high flying type. Cool.’
If only! My dancing resembles a drunken horse xO
A long winded post about SEI vs EII; typing is a changing facet. Feedback is welcome, particularly from SEIs who can hopefully advise if my conclusions are sensible or not
For a long time I have identified more with Fi/Ne ego in both mbti and socionics than the proposed Si/Fe ego typing that others have given me...primarily because I can’t see any case of me being ‘strong’ at Se and weaker at Ne. I have prided myself on being imaginative, considering all possibilities...in my own head a lot, dreamy, poetic... the stereotypes that SEI are not supposed to embody.
Yet, despite my disagreements with SEI being an option for myself, I have recently been focusing on the outside in, analysing how I am reacting in my new job situation, what my natural way of being is when I am not plagued by anxiety; for a long time I have felt non type-able due to my neurotic nerves. Another reason why I doubted I could be an Ip type. There’s no way you would call be ‘laidback and easygoing’. Except...on further reading I’ve discovered that it’s actually the stable temperaments I.e. Ijs and Ejs who come across as unflappably in control while Ips can come across as calming and accepting but also moody and changeable. Which perhaps explains my temperament better. I can be easygoing with others and have been told that I am a calming welcoming influence on others, gentle, shy yet accommodating.
But what about my lack of will power volitional sensing? I can’t deny that I’m not good with Se. SEIs are meant to be good but ignoring of it. I can’t see a case for me being good at it or even Si. Though I am learning through my new job and growing esteem that I am not as bad as I have believe I have been. I did an abseil for charity last year off a 7 story building. I wasn’t fearless. But I wanted to challenge myself and have the experience. And I’ve also felt gross and unfashionable for my whole adolescent and young adult life (I saw my clumsiness with colours and makeup as proof of weak Si). But I am hopefully finding my stride now and on looking back at some of my outfit choices, experimental and formal occasion wear, I wasn’t actually as terrible as I thought I looked. So my point is maybe the things I believed I sucked at are actually the things I am now realising that I was never that weak at in the first place?
Who knows? I also didn’t see myself as a caregiver. Pseudocaregiver or Victim as more likely. But I would say I do naturally fall into the roll of looking after others needs, giving them a emotional, mental and physical ‘safe space’. I kinda adapt to what others need and expect from me. Sounds a bit doormat-like when I put it like this. I do tend to neglect my own preferences and needs for others but only up to a certain point. I do try to look after my own physical mental and emotional well-being, usually by retreating into daydream, curled up in fluffy bed socks with a book land.
I relate more to fictional types SEIs than EIIs; I can see myself more in the overarching characterisations of those who are soft spoken, friendly, try to see the positives while sometimes being a bit insecure and unsure of their abilities. Maybe a hallmark of weak valued Ne is the fact that I see mostly negative possibilities or none at all, and freak myself out?
Anyways, I find it harder now to be firm in my EII self typing. I always thought if I wasn’t EII I was definitely IEI or an intuitive. Sensors get bad raps. Little wonder why I’ve stifled the prospect of being one for a long time. Who wants to admit out loud to even their self that they’re not a fantastical N unicorn creature and instead typecast as a hedonist with no imagination or integrity?
Again, thank you to anyone who’s read this all through. Any feedback from typed Alpha SFs or Delta NFs would be helpful for further clarity
This is were ISFP in MBTI is better than SEI, except for the part were they say only "Ne" types are imaginative, can think, and are interested in ideas, art and expressiveness (with "S" types being stupid).
Is that why in some ways the MBTI description of ISFP feels more fitting to me than SEI? I mean overall SEI's got it right, with the relational style and intertype relationships and everything. But I feel like the SEI description is a little too simple, plain, and homey for how I actually am. My mind and sense of creativity are both more chaotic and personalized/individualized than that. I'm not just someone who adapts to other peoples tastes all the time and tries to make them comfortable, for instance...only if I really care about them or want to help them in some way
Absolutely you just answered your own point perfectly.
MBTI descriptions better quantify observed behaviour; hence better descriptions. Socionics picks up on the information processes that MBTI misses but fails to properly describe how these processes would be perceived by a third party. However, neither classification system constitutes a proper model; the first ingredient in a rabbit stew is a rabbit. And, the two systems do need to be integrated but something like introducing sub-type into Socionics is perpetuating a flawed approach......
a.k.a. I/O
One can write descriptions in at least two ways.
One observes the common manifestation of the type.
Or, one obseves the fully developed manifestation. The ideal case.
Sometimes these two approaches will give the same description. Sometimes they differ. It depends often on the type because the individual lives under the requirments of the environment and society that will create unequal situations for the types.
SEI often has strong adaption and less developed ego functions.
Sometimes what one sees in SEI is simply weak ego. One should be careful not to attribute that to the type as such.
SEI artists can often be more true to their type so they can serve as good examples of what the essential SEI looks like.
Last edited by Tallmo; 07-13-2018 at 04:13 PM.
The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.
(Jung on Si)
Thank you everyone for your input!
Ok, so I have been reflecting on how I really do orientate and on the feedback that has been given here, and I have realised that EII isn’t my best fit. I’ve been trying to fit myself in the ideal of one for a long time, only to not live up to it and feel broken for not being a ‘proper’ Delta NF. So it’s freeing, chain braking for me to admit to myself that as much as I’ve held the ideal in my head that it isn’t me. Ip Fi demonstrative, Ti mobilising Te Polr does fit me best even though it embarrasses me to admit. For some reason Se Polr was less painful for me to admit. I do believe my Se is not my strongest or prominent point of personality but I am unsure if it is simply ignored and repressed or something I seek in my surroundings and others rather than bring forth within. I have listened to suggestions of me being ESE but I am not an Ej temperament over an Ip I’m afraid. Am I SEI? Most think so and I can see the evidence to support that. Or could I be IEI? It may explain why I felt EII since the functions have the same strengths albeit different value assigned to them?
i can’t say either for certain but what I can say with a bit more confidence is that I am an Ip Fe creative or some sort. And today I’m happy enough to be able to know that :2
"TIM Some Sort of Ip Fe"
you've shifted to *EI
I had the final choice between SEI and IEI for you too.
Look at men bloggers in my list. Are SLE/LSI or ILE/LII give you more of _personal_ sympathy.
Also try to find the people of those quadras among the ones who are close to you.
IR will save you.
I’ll reflect on that, though also on the differences between the two types and quadras. I guess the fact that no one has really seen Se valuing for me before counts towards being a Si/Ne Quadra."TIM Some Sort of Ip Fe"
you've shifted to *EI
I had the final choice between SEI and IEI for you too.
Look at men bloggers in my list. Are SLE/LSI or ILE/LII give you more of _personal_ sympathy.
Also try to find the people of those quadras among the ones who are close to you.
IR will save you.
I’m so confused also as to what I can reflect on about the differences between SEI and IEI within myself since I don’t currently have any Beta STs or Alpha NTs to analyse our Intertype relationships?
I would say SEI descriptions fit me so far as to when they broadly mention that SEIs are ‘not introspective’? Which I would say I am introspective to a fault. And IEI descriptions can fit just as well except I don’t relate to the obvious power hreabbing aspects in the descriptions. Hmmm maybe the bottom line is the general descriptions of types are far fetched...I would say function wise I have self typed and mostly been seen by others to have Weak Se. Like I said, there is a chance I maybe am SEI who has gotten very good at supressing and ignoring her strengths. Any tips on what glaring differences are that I’m not catching?
oh my goodness, @Xaiviay, your posts here have definitely made me reopen SEI as a type consideration for me. Particularly everything about being attracted to Ne and being curious as an Ne valuer being an Ne ego. Also I too found Si descriptions (particularly SiFe) descriptions to be too homely. They sound like they're describing a cutesy girl next door type. The top thing I definitely relate to, though, is daydreaming about sensor things. Just this morning I was thinking about the future (the way distant future like when I might have enough money to get a really nice place or a partner to split the rent with) and started researching apartments in the price range I imagine I'd have, picked out a favourite and then imagined filling it with beautiful things.
Also just a side note: I guess this is an SiFe thing but I can literally feel the warmth coming from your posts - you seem so lovely
"I take back like half of the exclamation points.....they make me look....eager to please. Which I AM....but I don't want anyone to KNOW that"
- Carrie Fisher
Yeah, being an Ne-valuer made me all confused about my type for a while, that's for sure! The bad stereotyping of sensors in Myers Briggs can really get in the way of accurate typing. I would actively seek out 'oddball' people to talk to, and enjoy discussing theoretical, fantastical, or unusual things for hours. The topics didn't have to have any direct connection with reality--but I'd be fascinated.
I'm glad you related more to my description of Si, whether you are SEI, IEE, or whatever type! It's good to know other people relate.
To have you know, I'd like to dress up like this, or this:
805cd96fc22e2ee933692864f1559aeb.jpgMorticia-Addams-morticia-addams-39082664-1024-768.png
...more than like this, or this (and they are very pretty outfits!! They would even get you compliments on the street, probably. I just feel bored by them in comparison):
f4910cce87eb77ebf33781c187e72a4f.jpg15c7e0a0318664684928a597aaa0484a.jpg
I like Morticia and Gomez Addams, too, btwThey're a good couple
Mutually supportive, affectionate, and love the same things
Wow, this is very interesting! That's the kind of thing I daydream about. The thing I read about how ISFPs tend to fantasize about sensual experiences more than intuitives was on a Myers Briggs forum where they were trying to help people tell the difference between ISFP and INFP. I'm not positive an ENFp wouldn't fantasize about sensual things, considering they value Si to the same degree as Ne. The INFjs I've known have way more outlandish imaginations, though...it's harder to explain what they imagine, sort of like spiritual concepts...One I know can actually astral travel, if you believe in that sort of thing (which I do, though I haven't personally experienced it)... But I haven't ever talked about daydreams with ENFps, so I'm not sure about themThe top thing I definitely relate to, though, is daydreaming about sensor things. Just this morning I was thinking about the future (the way distant future like when I might have enough money to get a really nice place or a partner to split the rent with) and started researching apartments in the price range I imagine I'd have, picked out a favourite and then imagined filling it with beautiful things.
Ohh my gosh, really??! You're so sweetAlso just a side note: I guess this is an SiFe thing but I can literally feel the warmth coming from your posts - you seem so lovelyThank you so much! You seem like a really lovely, nice, and creative person
Well you could still be SEI, it's definitely worth considering! I hope you are able to find enough good info to decide your type on these forums. Or sometimes, it helps to just theoretically 'try it on' for a while and see if it feels natural, or if it feels like you're forcing yourself into a box.
I have at least four different pinterest boards dedicated to how I'd like to dress. Here's some examples:
2efbd0ff33277a87529b7888fb544c08.jpg8092bb0b125eb0d9e4d84006fcfd3463.jpg174b50174b6797ed5fdaab82ed11bd4c.jpg5cf851d9c4ea167a6ec28d2430f92163.jpg
I do kind of dress like this irl but I'm also working my way out of a 13 year long goth phase so adding colour is a slow process. The shapes are right though.
and then the compulsory apartment version mentioned in the daydream
a9b06047434f5e55c0d4a6f6b48b0aa7.jpg14f61398138a8edf3524ced560ae9d1b.jpg
I like the idea of "trying on" a type. I will do that with SEI for a while. I'd say my friendship groups are split evenly alpha and delta. A lot of the conversations are like you describe - fascinating, long, rambling, offbeat. It's definitely easier to imagine myself with an ILE than an SLI - I feel like I might be a bit much for the latter. Oh well, confusion continues for a little while longer
"I take back like half of the exclamation points.....they make me look....eager to please. Which I AM....but I don't want anyone to KNOW that"
- Carrie Fisher
@crAck Eh, well, no I don'tI used to, I've just been too tired and depressed these days to put effort into most of my hobbies. I did dress like that all the time in the past, though. I hope to have fun with that again, soon..
Feeling like you're being 'a bit much' for SLI? Lol, that's exactly how I feel compared to most Delta Quadra people! Like, my emotional expressiveness and openness can be off-putting for most Delta people, I feelI have at least four different pinterest boards dedicated to how I'd like to dress. Here's some examples:
2efbd0ff33277a87529b7888fb544c08.jpg8092bb0b125eb0d9e4d84006fcfd3463.jpg174b50174b6797ed5fdaab82ed11bd4c.jpg5cf851d9c4ea167a6ec28d2430f92163.jpg
I do kind of dress like this irl but I'm also working my way out of a 13 year long goth phase so adding colour is a slow process. The shapes are right though.
and then the compulsory apartment version mentioned in the daydream
a9b06047434f5e55c0d4a6f6b48b0aa7.jpg14f61398138a8edf3524ced560ae9d1b.jpg
I like the idea of "trying on" a type. I will do that with SEI for a while. I'd say my friendship groups are split evenly alpha and delta. A lot of the conversations are like you describe - fascinating, long, rambling, offbeat. It's definitely easier to imagine myself with an ILE than an SLI - I feel like I might be a bit much for the latter. Oh well, confusion continues for a little while longerBut I notice that ILEs don't seem at all uncomfortable with my emotional dramatism, which is really nice. Long, rambling, offbeat conversations are my favorite, too. Anyhow, it'll be interesting to see how you feel about your type after 'trying on SEI' for a while!
Oh my goodness, yes, I love your styles!! They remind me of 80s styles, maybe? They're very unique and interesting. I love the all-over pink outfit on the left and her interior decorations, and the makeup on the far right, best of all. Also the inner decorations you sent me look pretty cutesy and funky, I like them
Yes, this looks kind of like 'decorative over-saturation', which is apparently how xSFps like things. I definitely do(link):
It's funny that you mentioned having 4+ pinterest boards dedicated to how you'd like to dress, I have 7+ myself xD If you're ever interested, I'd be happy to show them to you. We could compare tastesThe aesthetics of ISFp is designed to be perceived in small portions and in small forms. The beauty of each thing must be perceived individually - hence the presence of certain decorative over-saturation that is characteristic of ISFp's sense of aesthetics. (This is characteristic of the aesthetics of all irrational sensing-ethical types - ISFps and ESFps.)
Thanks crAck, you and me both! I appreciate it
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