Which sociotypes are predisposed to Narcissistic Personality Disorder?

[HolyKnowing]

Please do not rely on your personal hunches. Provide evidence, such as comparison with a sociotype description and the DSM....

[Adam Strange]

Sociotypes who had a parent with NPD.

[niffer]

There’s a stereotype that ILEs are narcissistic. IME any type can be / some level of narcissism can be healthy or seems to be normal anyway. Maybe ILEs just aren’t good at hiding it initially in life at times, or some of them anyway; they seem to always be half spaced out in convo to me so that’s probably why.

[ooo]

ILE and SLE by the literature. Idk why though*, not in my experience of these types. I guess any unhealthy type can be.

*Oh it might be the Fi polr actually

[niffer]

ILE and SLE by the literature. Idk why though*, not in my experience of these types. I guess any unhealthy type can be.

*Oh it might be the Fi polr actually

I’ve read in one SLE subtype description that we can be very self-loving. I’ve never actually seen the ILE stereotype in literature before (nor have I heard of SLE even in stereotype form before) except for the one source that summarizes Fe HA as the need “to be loved”. What sources did you find this in?

[falsehope]

I used to work with one ILI narcissist. He was giving me impression that he has only half of the brain and anything he said was ridiculous. Fragile, manipulative, money obsessed, very poor at work, power hungry, that was a major disorder. Control freak. But in essence, he was stupid and too inflated at the same time. The difference between his perception of himself and what he could do was huge. He was matching every feature of NPD.
So I think NPD people are not just what comes from personality, but it's a major brain disorder. It's not "soft" but rather "hard", this guy really sounded as he havent got half of the brain.

[Aramas]

NPD is an artificial theoretical construct, while the types are real. So the question is irrelevant.

[HolyKnowing]

NPD is an artificial theoretical construct, while the types are real. So the question is irrelevant.

If it were an artificial theoretical construct, it wouldn't have a cross-cultural ethiology. All constructs are culture-bound by design because they're not empirical by definition.

[ooo]

@niffer

http://www.the16types.info/info/typesview.htm

[Aramas]

If it were an artificial theoretical construct, it wouldn't have a cross-cultural ethiology. All constructs are culture-bound by design because they're not empirical by definition.

Is ethiology a word? Couldn't find it in Google. Maybe check your spelling.

A lot of the DSM crap is pure bull. "NPD" is just trying to add a veneer of science to the old category of "selfish asshole." Everything is billed as science these days, because science makes more money and gets more respect.

There is no type that is more prone to being selfish than any other. Ethicals are just as likely as logicals to be selfish. Whether or not a person is selfish depends on their childhood and such. If people feel the world doesn't care about them, they become selfish to compensate for that lack of caring they perceive in others, which possibly ends up creating a self-fulfilling prophecy in some cases.

[niffer]

@niffer

http://www.the16types.info/info/typesview.htm

Er... what on that page or more specifically on the site would link those types with narcissism?

[falsehope]

Yeah I've seen many types of narcissism. It is definitely not just NPD. So there must be various reasons for it and in different types it has to manifest differently. But some types are really heavy and I don't think it has anything to do with socionics.

[ooo]

Er... what on that page or more specifically on the site would link those types with narcissism?

click on a wtv profile and near the bottom there's the disorder associated to the type, there there

Disorder Perspective

The personality disorder which is a pathological representation of the Inventive personality type is the Compensatory Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
Basic belief: I must attain a position of distinction or merit. Thinking strategyPretension.

The website PTypes personality types proposes Compensatory Narcissistic Personality Disorder as a pervasive pattern of unstable, "overtly narcissistic behaviors [that] derive from an underlying sense of insecurity and weakness rather than from genuine feelings of self-confidence and high self-esteem" (Millon), beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by ten (or more) of the following:

• seeks to create an illusion of superiority and to build up an image of high self-worth (Millon);
• has disturbances in the capacity for empathy (Forman);
• strives for recognition and prestige to compensate for the lack of a feeling of self-worth;
• may acquire a deprecatory attitude in which the achievements of others are ridiculed and degraded (Millon);
• has persistent aspirations for glory and status (Millon);
• has a tendency to exaggerate and boast (Millon);
• is sensitive to how others react to him or her, watches and listens carefully for critical judgment, and feels slighted by disapproval (Millon);
• is prone to feel shamed and humiliated and especially hyper-anxious and vulnerable to the judgments of others (Millon);
• covers up a sense of inadequacy and deficiency with pseudo-arrogance and pseudo-grandiosity (Millon);
• has a tendency to periodic hypochondria (Forman);
• alternates between feelings of emptiness and deadness and states of excitement and excess energy (Forman);
• entertains fantasies of greatness, constantly striving for perfection, genius, or stardom (Forman);
• has a history of searching for an idealized partner and has an intense need for affirmation and confirmation in relationships (Forman);
• frequently entertains a wishful, exaggerated, and unrealistic concept of himself or herself which he or she can't possibly measure up to (Reich);
• produces (too quickly) work not up to the level of his or her abilities because of an overwhelmingly strong need for the immediate gratification of success (Reich);
• is touchy, quick to take offense at the slightest provocation, continually anticipating attack and danger, reacting with anger and fantasies of revenge when he or she feels frustrated in his or her need for constant admiration (Reich);
• is self-conscious, due to a dependence on approval from others (Reich);
• suffers regularly from repetitive oscillations of self-esteem (Reich);
• seeks to undo feelings of inadequacy by forcing everyone's attention and admiration upon himself or herself (Reich);
• may react with self-contempt and depression to the lack of fulfillment of his or her grandiose expectations (Riso).

Source: Kelly, David. Ptypes http://www.geocities.com/ptypes/, 2004

from the ENTp page

[Sol]

I noticed this among several EIE. They were egocentric, not much honest, liked to swagger, had good skills to charm people. At least one of them could to fraud for material interests. In a reduced form among LSI.

This may relate to non-valued Ne and Te, where people try to ignore their objective value, try to praise themselves to justify the higher demands. Also may relate to valued Fe, when someone too wants to be objectively outstanding - to get an admiration from anyone.

I suppose, the core problem is psychopatic egocentrism. While the Jung's types predispose to the forms in which it manifests. So narcissism is probably not a disorder itself, but only its surface look.

[User Name]

Is this reliable? If so the MBTI type that is more inclined to NPD would be INTJ (ILI?). I don't know...

[HolyKnowing]

Is ethiology a word? Couldn't find it in Google. Maybe check your spelling.

A lot of the DSM crap is pure bull. "NPD" is just trying to add a veneer of science to the old category of "selfish asshole." Everything is billed as science these days, because science makes more money and gets more respect.

There is no type that is more prone to being selfish than any other. Ethicals are just as likely as logicals to be selfish. Whether or not a person is selfish depends on their childhood and such. If people feel the world doesn't care about them, they become selfish to compensate for that lack of caring they perceive in others, which possibly ends up creating a self-fulfilling prophecy in some cases.

I meant etiology. Subtle spelling mistake. Thank you for your attentive sight.

[consentingadult]

Please do not rely on your personal hunches. Provide evidence, such as comparison with a sociotype description and the DSM....

Narcissism has many faces, and as such can manifest in all types. The reason is simple: pathological narcissism is not type related. Basically narcissism comes down to thinking you are better than other people in some way, and that can happen to anyone.

As to evidence: scientifically there is no need to provide evidence to prove that no relation exists, the burden of evidence is on the person who says such a relationship exists. But for all intents and purposes, read about Millon's subtypes of NPD, or read the Psychodynamic Diagnostic Manual, which lists more varieties of NPD that most people would care to read.

ILE and SLE by the literature. Idk why though*, not in my experience of these types. I guess any unhealthy type can be.

*Oh it might be the Fi polr actually

Nope, EIIs end ESIs can be narcissists just as well, the first being covert narcissists, the latter more openly (of course, most of them aren't).

[The Reality Denialist]

This disorder is more realized in actions not in behaviour. Just basing this on narc stories.

Some sources suggest EIE. I kind of doubt it. Probably the type that can pull such manipulative tricks but still...

[maniac]

There are different types of narcissists and what kind a person is depends on their sociotype and enneatype. But I think what most narcissists have in common is they have some 3 influence whether it’s a wing or a fix or core type. But not all people who do have 3 are narcissists, obviously.

I know of an EIE 2 narc, a 6 narc, an LII 7 narc.

[niffer]

@ooo Really interesting actually, thanks for sharing and clarifying. I can actually identify with it (or well, unchecked as a child I had those tendencies before I got more humble over time), and I’ve known other SLEs who I could see having those tendencies too. I don’t have any of those beliefs they listed for it now though.

I also thought it was spot on how they specified that ILE has compensatory narcissistic tendencies rather than the regular kind, which is a result of them feeling like they need to compensate for feelings of weakness instead.

[ooo]

np niffah, it's curious how that site is unknown, it has such good material, like that disorder bits are my fav.

I agree some descriptions are spot on, and you'll see many types that share similar pathologies and functions, but yeah, I think they're for the extreme cases really... or for very particular moments in our lives.

[The Reality Denialist]

ILE without compensatory narc tendencies is going to be socially anxious and withdrawn? I can defiitely see that and have experienced that myself.


I mean if you have to talk with people you have to take very remote position. I still don't see that the motivation behind is to compensate. Other party should just take challenging position. If they don't show feeling so logically you don't have to do it either and equality is maintained if we allow all kinds of interaction patterns (and not to become participants in societally imposed default narcissism that people are conditioned to use by default) while taking care of take causality of such actions.

[Pookie]

All. It's a maturity issue.

[Adam Strange]

I just found this article which points out a correlation between narcissism and income inequality.

https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2018...al-health.html

Interestingly enough, it also verifies what I've found when I've been on the East Coast, which is that even people who are very well off in absolute terms are very insecure about their social positions in very unequal (East Coast) societies.

[Number 9 large]

ILE and SLE by the literature. Idk why though*, not in my experience of these types. I guess any unhealthy type can be.

*Oh it might be the Fi polr actually

Narcissists are emotional manipulators hence arent logical types. They also incorporate a lot of shame which correlates with enneagram type 3 the most. Just look at unhealthy enneagram 3 personality and it all seems clear. As for sociotype, ESFp fits best into this category

[golden]

Narcissists are emotional manipulators hence arent logical types. They also incorporate a lot of shame which correlates with enneagram type 3 the most. Just look at unhealthy enneagram 3 personality and it all seems clear. As for sociotype, ESFp fits best into this category

Pathological narcissism is a set of psychological structures not bound by typology.

[Raver]

It seems mostly NTR to me. I have met lots of narcissists from a variety of different types. EXTX types seem more prone to it or maybe it is less obvious for other types and manifests differently.

[Number 9 large]

Pathological narcissism is a set of psychological structures not bound by typology.

Dat feel when typology is a set of psychological structures

[FDG]

ESxx

[ooo]

@N#9 true dat they can be emotional manipulators, but it's like there's really no emotional charge in what they do, they simply make the best moves they can to obtain what they want, some narcissists might use more or less emphasis on feelings, depends on each case. narcissists in general are disconnected from their true self, sense of uniqueness, they were raised to be the "elected" ones, and they live through this mirror. Fi polr by the theory should stand for this, when brought to extremes. Fe can be an HA because they want to be liked and recognized, but actually suck at attaining that (from colleagues and people close to them pov).

[The Reality Denialist]

ESxx

Compensatory Narcissistic: ENxx

Maybe:
Dependent: INxx
Codependent: ISxx

[golden]

Dat feel when typology is a set of psychological structures

I believe you misunderstood. Pathological narcissism is not bound by typology, meaning it is a separate set of characteristics.

[Number 9 large]

I believe you misunderstood. Pathological narcissism is not bound by typology, meaning it is a separate set of characteristics.

it is not separate, maybe read more before u make stupid conclusions

[Kill4Me]

SLE and LSE are the two bellwether types in so far as socionic types having a predisposition towards Narcissism go.

SLE are more predisposed towards Classic Narcissism and LSE are more predisposed towards Compensatory Narcissism. [Macho or sociopathic are interchangeable with the word narcissism here.]

SLE is the biggest perpetrator of vanity since Fi is its point of least resistance...though you'll get a lot of the Ne/Fi types (i.e. niffer), Se/Fi (ie number6w5large) and Fi/Ne types (ie Sol) having a problem with or even in extreme cases railing against the "stereotype" because it attaches or implies a lack of civility/humanity to a bellwether type in socionics.

Remember, Fi cognition is essential for empathy. Thus, Fi Polr means low in empathy, and so higher correlations to ASPD and NPD. Since Fi cognition has an internal mirror for others' psychology, other people's inner thoughts are more foreign to Fi Polr, thus presenting as more vain and arrogant. Thus, all SLEs and LSEs have a certain Threeishness about them.

Of course, any type can have NPD or ASPD. But most of the other types will typically play down how narcissistic they are. SLE and LSE typically relish in their narcissism/sociopathy/vainness...if they don't relish in it or even exaggerate it they probably aren't either of those types. In contrast, you might have an IEE/EII narcissist who is far more likely to view their narcissistic behavior in more humanistic terms.

[Disturbed]

EIE, LSI, SLE, ILI, ILE-Ti, LSE, SEE, in that order, seem the most narcissistic to me. I also think the ILI, SEE, LSE, and the EIE (in that order) would be more predisposed to grandiose narcissism, while the others more prone to compensatory narcissism. The EIE seems to be in between grandiose and compensatory, but their behavior is always self-serving (they can certainly still be useful though and I'll take them when I need them and enjoy being with some of them sometimes). EIE over-valuing Ni, not valuing Ne (which makes them more conservative, less able to come up with original solutions, and not able to be as successful as, say, ILE-Ti), the Si-PoLR and going against others Si-based reactions (for example, their intrusiveness on others' personal space when they need to shake someone's hand as part of routine or get upclose and personal, that some of them are poor with colors and textures using ones that are too vibrant to the point in hurts your eyes, too sharp, or too soft or too much artifacting due to their selection of not the best cameras, yelling when they get excited, equipment, cars, stereos they buy seldom look the best, probably because they're not really discerning/understanding), and making decisions based on emotional background of society (and all the problems that go with that), the group too much, seems to contribute to their own narcissism so much.

But still, some CEOs have been EIE, they brought me a lot of pleasure, they had the right people on their side and they were still pretty open. Tom Kalinske was one of them, he was one of the best CEOs ever (though there were times when he was quite inattentive to Si-matters and over-attentive to other aspects of Si for sure) and he really wasn't narcissistic, he was quite open to strangers to anyone coming up to him to talk to him, and to all sorts of new, good ideas; The CEO of nvidia, though, who I suspect is an EIE, work has been mediocre overall, seldom great, sometimes good, sometimes mediocre, often bad (image quality of their early products like Riva 128 was terrible, some later products also had poor image quality/feature set/compatibility, and they usually try to balance too much or go with too many popular trends rather than allow the end-user more control, and the STB Velocity 128 using nvidia's RIVA 128 had me in tears by the time I was at Turok Dinosaur Hunter's title screen in 1998 so my parents went out and bought that Diamond Monster 3D II 8MB that I wanted so badly; sadly, ATi's and AMD products have always been even worse IMO, the R300 was over-rated AF, had terrible image quality, I won't go into all the details right now, but it was terrible, had poor fan quality, ran at really high temp, was completely designed for performance at nearly total expense of image quality, the only thing was half-way decent about the IQ was that is used 4x rotated grid multisampling, but then they shied away from 4x rotated grid super sampling). LSE Mitt Romney's work was much, much more mediocre, even poor at times and he seemed much more narcissistic as governor and candidate. I never got the robotic vibe from him at all, he seemed quite passionate and emotional and not very detached at all to me, he actually seemed to be too emotionally empathetic and attached to some people at times (his wife, Bill Clinton, Paul Ryan, Netanyahu, the poor sometimes, the rich who were rich mainly due to government interventions that Romney didn't understand, but never the hardworking middle class and people who respected property rights), and especially this country and that was something that turned me away from him; he did value Fi and was a member of the Delta quadra (so he didn't value Ti and Fe so he was too conservative on things like sexuality, pornography, humor, and drugs like Deltas tend to be), after all.

Sorry I've been dominating the forums, I just love to speak my mind.

[The Reality Denialist]

SLE is the biggest perpetrator of vanity since Fi is its point of least resistance...though you'll get a lot of the Ne/Fi types (i.e. niffer), Se/Fi (ie number6w5large) and Fi/Ne types (ie Sol) having a problem with or even in extreme cases railing against the "stereotype" because it attaches or implies a lack of civility/humanity to a bellwether type in socionics.

Well, you most certainly need Fi to have empathy for yourself and if it gets too one sided, then lolz for not being a narc.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

I agree with Pookie. Often it's a maturity thing. Not always but often older people tend to have much better people skills than young people because they understand through years of experience and harsh realities that life doesn't turn out the way you want for most of us and that the only thing that really mattered in life was being kind to others, because the only thing people will remember about you is how you made them feel anyway. Younger people are much more narcissistic, especially teenagers- because they think the entire world is their oyster and they have the bodily energy levels to support this type of thinking. And that is why they are both more abrasive but also weirdly sensitive about stuff that older adults don't pay any attention to.

Narcissism is like... a condition or a gauge. It's self-centeredness, just in a way that is obviously 'unhealthy.' Anything extreme in life is looked down upon, that is where the gay community comes in because we relish in being extreme and kinda flip the notion on its head. When you're used to being looked down on so much, you can flip the script back and show others the joy of excesses- not just their downfalls.

Empathy is virtuous, and good. There is no denying that. However, we obviously don't just sit in a circle and be empathetic with each other 24/7 or nothing would ever get done or nothing interesting would ever happen. Those who try to enforce that type of thing ironically become the worst of villains- because you have to take away people's free will in order to have that reality, and that is the worst sin in the world.

We're also very competitive and all probably selfish and unkind even if we wish that we weren't. We do bad things for good reasons and sometimes we just do bad things completely aware of how awful it is. We make everything about us when we shouldn't. MY JOB. MY LIFE. It doesn't mean anything. It's a small part of what the majority goes through. But we all can't help doing this. Narcissism is like a defense mechanism from feeling the world's pain. Most of us like to think we're good people but if we saw something really fucked up happen to somebody how many of us would help out of genuine concern and how much of us would laugh and get our iphones out? And you never know who would do what until the bad thing happens. And then there is people who would help from a very , very safe distance and of course that's not really "Help" that's somebody boosting their own image and twisting compassion into something it's not. It makes people feel like they should just be mean instead, because at least then it would feel more real. It's just all for show.

Understanding the nuances of this, who would do what and how often in what situation- depending on factor x, y, z- all of that is solved over time via how mature and seasoned somebody is.