Steve Jobs is my dual.

[Tearsofaclown]

What is focus? Focus is saying no. I cannot say no. I get into everything. I say yes to everything. Scattered all over the place. No central focus.

There was this exercise where you take a word and try to name other words off the top of your head. Like somebody may say apple. You say red, tree, etc list of all the things that come to your head. I noticed the main word I said when I ran out of words was "open". Like clockwork. I need to be more closed


He is describing me right here. A bunch of different ideas, perhaps many of them good, but no focus. And he likes to a bullet through the head of people like me. Meaning he likes to kill unessential ideas.





EIEs admire people whose thinking is clear-cut, unambiguous, and stalwart, who reduce the myriad of possibilities down to one single option. This is something they are almost completely unable to do on their own (they easily doubt their ability to choose right), but have a deep need for in other people.

Some people I know from this forum have typed him as EIE but he is the opposite of that. He is everything an EIE needs. I really relate to the top comment of the video too:

"Wow, I never thought about this before. I couldn't figure out why I keep learning more and more, but accomplish less and less. I thought it was lack of focus, but it's actually lack of ability to say 'no'. I want to apply all my knowledge to everything, and end up getting lost in the process."

[domr]

Meaning he likes to kill unessential ideas.

That is because he is +I1. But ya, he is an LS- type.

[nefnaf]

LIE contact

This shouldn't be that hard lol

[The Reality Denialist]

Idiot proof OS (or let's call it a shell). It is also pretty and by design philosophy quite restricted if used in default ways.

I can certainly see some EIE dual like attraction behind it.

I personally detest it.

[Soupman]

He's officially typed as EIE by Gulenko, and actually resembles plenty of EIEs I see in real life

[Tearsofaclown]

Idiot proof OS (or let's call it a shell). It is also pretty and by design philosophy quite restricted if used in default ways.

I can certainly see some EIE dual like attraction behind it.

I personally detest it.

Snapchat is so fucking unintuitive. My god. You have to watch a tutorial to use it. It is ridiculous. For me anyway. Facebook reminds me a little of Apple in that sense. They copied Snapchat with Instagram and did it so much better. My God. lol. Like night and day.

[Tearsofaclown]

So the secret of Apple's success is making products for ethical types. He realized early on that ethical types would have trouble with such complexity and streamlined it for us.

[golden]

What is focus? Focus is saying no. I cannot say no. I get into everything. I say yes to everything. Scattered all over the place. No central focus.

There was this exercise where you take a word and try to name other words off the top of your head. Like somebody may say apple. You say red, tree, etc list of all the things that come to your head. I noticed the main word I said when I ran out of words was "open". Like clockwork. I need to be more closed


He is describing me right here. A bunch of different ideas, perhaps many of them good, but no focus. And he likes to a bullet through the head of people like me. Meaning he likes to kill unessential ideas.





EIEs admire people whose thinking is clear-cut, unambiguous, and stalwart, who reduce the myriad of possibilities down to one single option. This is something they are almost completely unable to do on their own (they easily doubt their ability to choose right), but have a deep need for in other people.

Some people I know from this forum have typed him as EIE but he is the opposite of that. He is everything an EIE needs. I really relate to the top comment of the video too:

"Wow, I never thought about this before. I couldn't figure out why I keep learning more and more, but accomplish less and less. I thought it was lack of focus, but it's actually lack of ability to say 'no'. I want to apply all my knowledge to everything, and end up getting lost in the process."

Anecdotally only: My husband is LSI and he says yes to quite a bit of stuff, depending on what kind of stuff we’re talking about. I have super broad interests but I believe I can say no to more things and place firmer boundaries in some ways than he can.

That said, we may have come out more roughly even on this ability after seven years together. I think I have influenced him to say no more often in the emotional interpersonal domain. (When I’m not watching he says yes to social things he shouldn’t because he apparently doesn’t know the most effective ways to decline.) Also with phasing out relations he wanted out of or to change but was stuck in.

He has helped me to say no in areas where I had a hard time standing up for myself because I was unsure of what kinds of procedures were needed and how much leverage I had access to. He has also helped me reject ideas that aren’t viable (though he’s generally encouraging) and scenarios that cause me to underestimate myself, “sell myself short” in his words.

Again these are merely anecdotes but it’s possible that Jobs, as a very successful person, developed or got support with a key that he didn’t always have and values it enough to share it. I can’t type him LSI. I also find that dualization may not affect ppl super consciously like your “aha”-like reaction here implies, but more subconsciously and incrementally.

[ooo]

Yeah it can as well be an Intuitive topic. I've had professors in art academy say similar things, because what you display in art is always a choice, even if you make a photograph and aim at objectivity-- there's not such a thing-- focus means making choices. It's a kind of abstract reasoning on a practical obvious concept.

[Tearsofaclown]

Anecdotally only: My husband is LSI and he says yes to quite a bit of stuff, depending on what kind of stuff we’re talking about. I have super broad interests but I believe I can say no to more things and place firmer boundaries in some ways than he can.

That said, we may have come out more roughly even on this ability after seven years together. I think I have influenced him to say no more often in the emotional interpersonal domain. (When I’m not watching he says yes to social things he shouldn’t because he apparently doesn’t know the most effective ways to do it.) Also with phasing out relations he wanted out of or to change but was stuck in.

He has helped me to say no in areas where I had a hard time standing up for myself because I was unsure of what kinds of procedures were needed and how much leverage I had access to. He has also helped me reject ideas that aren’t viable (though he’s generally encouraging) and scenarios that cause me to underestimate myself, “sell myself short” in his words.

Again these are merely anecdotes but it’s possible that Jobs, as a very successful person, developed or needs a key that he didn’t always have and values it enough to share it. I can’t type him LSI. I also find that dualization may not affect ppl super consciously like your “aha”-like reaction here implies, but more subconsciously and incrementally.

I say No to people a lot. It is ideas I have a problem saying no to.

Yeah, he could just be me actualized. Like the EIE final boss. He also grew up in a better environment. With risk taking and happening things in California during beginning of personal computers. Surrounded by world class and educated people. I am from a small town and there was nothing. No dreams are built here.

That is a good point about duality being more unconscious. This is something I understand. I am not good at it yet but I understand it.

[Tearsofaclown]

If you have a crush on your own type what does that mean? That you are gay? A narcissist? lol.

[ooo]

lulz tis ok ~

[Adam Strange]

If you have a crush on your own type what does that mean? That you are gay? A narcissist? lol.

It's only gay if they are the same sex as you and dress that way.

.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ...............................................

I actually think that lots of people are attracted to Identicals, but I also think those relationships get boring pretty fast.

[niffer]

I’ve also always thought Steve Jobs was LSI. Gulenko thinks Donald Trump is SEE and can suck on a penis.

[Tearsofaclown]

It's only gay if they are the same sex as you and dress that way.

.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ...............................................

I actually think that lots of people are attracted to Identicals, but I also think those relationships get boring pretty fast.

Reminds me of an episode of Seinfeld. Jerry dates a girl who is like him in every way. Same interests. They finish each other's sentences. This is the best woman he ever found. Then he realized he hated himself and dumped her. lol. He doesn't want to date himself. I sure as hell wouldn't want to date myself.

[Tearsofaclown]

Yeah it can as well be an Intuitive topic. I've had professors in art academy say similar things, because what you display in art is always a choice, even if you make a photograph and aim at objectivity-- there's not such a thing-- focus means making choices. It's a kind of abstract reasoning on a practical obvious concept.

Jobs was somewhat of an art student for a while and was into things like calligraphy. He said a computer should be a painting. So now I am thinking this is just something he learned from somewhere and not came up with himself. This is somewhat of a revolutionary concept to me as I have never had any formal art training.

I do remember one quote I always liked. Coco Channel said elegance is the art of refusal. I wouldn't be surprised if Jobs heard that quote and it sunk in either. He loved to quote things and sharing what he learned. It doesn't look like it at first glance but he is kind of teaching here. He is sharing what he learned. He seems like a sponge and I consider myself a sponge too. The more experiences you have and things you learn, the more creative you can be.

He also said the customer comes first. Or at least the human element. He worked with Bill Gates and they have known each other a long time. Gates was asked to describe how they do things differently. Gates said he views it as an engineering problem. Jobs sees it more from a personal perspective, how it affects people . That kind of thing. The human comes first and THEN the technology. You start with the human experience and work yourself back to the technology. You don't start with technology and then work yourself back to the human.

[The Reality Denialist]

I think there are also lots of Ti bases who like Apple products (to a point of religiosity) because it makes more sense to them. System that is quite fixed but also firm. Well, I can comfortably juggle for fun so I just use Linux and on phone I use terminal emulator when needed.

That said some EIE's might become quite tech savvy. I think one possible example of EIE driven projects could be some sort of Linux evangelism (by actual priest) which focuses on third world projects and schools. Not sure, though if that is the case.

[Sol]

and also long lost father

[ooo]

@Tearsofaclown

that's really cool! Jobs was a really great person, despite all the nerds saying otherwise because Linux and whatnot work better etc etc, I think it was Jobs to think of super intuitive ways to format a computer tho? Like the windows and basically there's your computer doing all the little things for you... anyway, it doesn't matter that he repeats smth he's heard, we all do that, and what he repeats in this case is a really enlightening thing, it becomes obvious if you are caught in the act of creating something, bcoz what will you put in there, everything? No, you can't put everything, you have to say no to smth and yes to something else, these are the choices that become apparent in the final work, without anyone realizing but the artist, and yeah it's a concept you can extend everywhere else.

Stay hungry stay foolish <3

[Tallmo]

So you must be ESI then

[The Reality Denialist]

LIE's I have seen tend to be very from Jobs. They just tend to do little bit of this and little bit of that and finally they land somewhere. Some of them really try to work in sensing types jobs and do something practical stuff. After enough stray life they finally meet kindergarten teacher of their dreams, finalize their thesis in natural science and try to make some bucks. I have studied with over ten years older LIE's and we did some lab courses.

Yes, this is indication of their weakness.

Jobs as LIE? Ummm... He put huge emphasis on easy to use and aesthetics. Some LIE's might happily operate with computers stripped totally away from aesthetics using window managers like ratpoison or i3 etc:

[domr]

Jobs as LIE? Ummm... He put huge emphasis on easy to use and aesthetics.

-S4+L3 Demonstrative and Ignoring functions at work.

[Tearsofaclown]

I was reminded how John Lennon met Yoko Ono. At an art display. He saw one of her pieces. It was like a blank page with with one small little word on in, that word was "yes". And it turned Lennon on right then. And he totally lost fuckin focus with Ono and she took over his life. Fuckin sucker. lol. Yoko Ono was a fucking player. Respect to her. You aint reelin me or Jobs in with that shit though.

But there was another piece that really decided me for-or-against the artist: a ladder which led to a painting which was hung on the ceiling. It looked like a black canvas with a chain with a spyglass hanging on the end of it. This was near the door when you went in. I climbed the ladder, you look through the spyglass and in tiny little letters it says 'yes'. So it was positive. I felt relieved. It's a great relief when you get up the ladder and you look through the spyglass and it doesn't say 'no' or 'fuck you' or something, it said 'yes'.

I was very impressed and John Dunbar introduced us – neither of us knew who the hell we were, she didn't know who I was, she'd only heard of Ringo, I think, it means apple in Japanese. And Dunbar had sort of been hustling her, saying, 'That's a good patron, you must go and talk to him or do something.' John Dunbar insisted she say hello to the millionaire. And she came up and handed me a card which said 'breathe' on it, one of her instructions, so I just went [pant]. This was our meeting.




-John Lennon

[Tearsofaclown]

LIE's I have seen tend to be very from Jobs. They just tend to do little bit of this and little bit of that and finally they land somewhere. Some of them really try to work in sensing types jobs and do something practical stuff. After enough stray life they finally meet kindergarten teacher of their dreams, finalize their thesis in natural science and try to make some bucks. I have studied with over ten years older LIE's and we did some lab courses.

Yes, this is indication of their weakness.

Jobs as LIE? Ummm... He put huge emphasis on easy to use and aesthetics. Some LIE's might happily operate with computers stripped totally away from aesthetics using window managers like ratpoison or i3 etc:

You just described one of my best friends. Fuckin sellout he is. lol. Marry this ridiculously feely woman (who is a teacher) but has no feeling himself. lol. Its funny trying to watch him console her when she gets emotional. Which is a lot. He kind of just stands next to her awkwardly. I do not want a feeler woman.

I also think Jobs could be a 7. Any opinion on his enneagram?

[domr]

I also think Jobs could be a 7. Any opinion on his enneagram?

784 most likely

[Samson]

784 most likely

That's only because the Fauvres type him that way. They type him after Katherine's self-typing of 847, which is hard to believe for most who have seen her in action. Both Steve Jobs and Katherine Fauvre are 3w4's, the creative climber. 378 in Job's case, and I concur with many in this thread that he's EIE.

[Tearsofaclown]

I think there are also lots of Ti bases who like Apple products (to a point of religiosity) because it makes more sense to them. System that is quite fixed but also firm. Well, I can comfortably juggle for fun so I just use Linux and on phone I use terminal emulator when needed.

That said some EIE's might become quite tech savvy. I think one possible example of EIE driven projects could be some sort of Linux evangelism (by actual priest) which focuses on third world projects and schools. Not sure, though if that is the case.

I am not a tech guy at all and never cared about it or took sides. Still don't. What I love about Jobs is his philosophy and life, not his products. He wanted to put a dent in the world. He wanted the universe to know he was here. He wants to throw his weight around and break through walls. The genius of Jobs is not the products but the "ecosystem" he created as Warren Buffet put it. Buffett as a rule doesn't invest in things he doesn't understand. Tech is something he doesn't understand but he does understand a successful business model. He is brilliant at picking businesses. He actually owns 5% of Apple now and would love to own the whole thing. It's kinda funny cuz Bill Gates is his best friend and Gates sits on the Board of Buffett's company. And Apple isn't even really a tech company. It is bigger than that. Buffett recognizes that.

“I didn’t go into Apple because it was a tech stock in the least,” Buffett explained at the Berkshire meeting. “I went into Apple because I came to certain conclusions about both the intelligence with the capital they deploy, but more important the value of their ecosystem and how permanent that ecosystem could be.” -Buffett


But now that I understand the tech part of Apple more I think Apple products may be more suited for me. lol. I've ever owned any kind of apple/mac computer. Just an Iphone and Ipod. I have an android phone now. I am becoming more interested in tech.

[domr]

That's only because the Fauvres type him that way. They type him after Katherine's self-typing of 847, which is hard to believe for most who have seen her in action. Both Steve Jobs and Katherine Fauvre are 3w4's, the creative climber. 378 in Job's case, and I concur with many in this thread that he's EIE.

You are 100% wrong.

I'm a 784. Jobs is obviously a 784 as well. I think 7 > 8 because he was okay with blowing stuff up. 3 is Hillary Clinton, achieving for the sake of achieving. SJ wanted to change the world, not work for a promotion.

He is LSI to the max as well with his attention to detail.

[domr]

Enjoy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwf38MVMbc8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKE2U60tKY0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f60dheI4ARg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuNQgln6TL0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keCwRdbwNQY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rp6_3UQLi2Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJWWtV1w5fw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oksetv3i90&t=1s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjjUOemW-_Q

https://bronnieware.com/blog/regrets-of-the-dying/

[Samson]

You are 100% wrong.

I'm a 784. Jobs is obviously a 784 as well. I think 7 > 8 because he was okay with blowing stuff up. 3 is Hillary Clinton, achieving for the sake of achieving. SJ wanted to change the world, not work for a promotion.

He is LSI to the max as well with his attention to detail.

I have given this plenty of thought and have considered the 7 case very thoroughly, but it falls apart in the end. However, you are clearly not open to the case of 3w4 for Steve Jobs (or any other than your own really), so I won't bother you with it. Your self-typing is also irrelevant to me, in terms of typing Steve.

[Tearsofaclown]

This sounds Ne not valued:

“People think focus means saying yes to the thing you've got to focus on. But that's not what it means at all. It means saying no to the hundred other good ideas that there are. You have to pick carefully. I'm actually as proud of the things we haven't done as the things I have done. Innovation is saying no to 1,000 things.”

― Steve Jobs

Very in the moment. Here and now. He is the same type as Bruce Lee, whatever that is. Lee said it is not the daily increase but the daily decrease. Hack away at the unessential. Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication as Da Vinci said.

[Bertrand]

it seems to me absolutely everything that is superfluous is in some sense a product of nature, nature is literally responsible for all superfluous things... it seems to me they have it backwards and are just calling whatever they consider to be elegant natural. natural selection is about producing offshoots that are ultimately tested and rejected or accepted. you can say they are necessary and therefore not superfluous, but then so is everything. now we end up with there being nothing superfluous at all, which I think is sort of true. everything came into being and went out of being for some kind of reason and at the behest of nature on some level. the best way to conceptualize it is to say what exactly constitutes superfluous is itself a human construct, nature has almost nothing to do with it, and superfluity is itself a kind of illusion of the human mind when a human mind deems some things unnecessary because it can't see the world in its wholeness. true people have a right to select, but all action inevitably provokes some kind of reaction, what is rejected for being superfluous ultimately leads to something else, which means even in rejecting it its purpose was fulfilled, to say it would have been better to have never been is to break the chain that lead to the thing of supposedly higher value, and without which this thing would have nothing to compare itself favorably to

[Cosmic Teapot]

That quote makes me think that human beings can't possibly be and an invention of nature then.

[Bertrand]

its sort of like what is the one thing God (nature) lacks?

[niffer]

Ur m0m.

[nefnaf]

He's officially typed as EIE by Gulenko, and actually resembles plenty of EIEs I see in real life

source? I have a hard time believing Gulenko, the world's best socionist, would mistype Steve Jobs in such a way

[niffer]

source? I have a hard time believing Gulenko, the world's best socionist, would mistype Steve Jobs in such a way

[domr]

source? I have a hard time believing Gulenko, the world's best socionist, would mistype Steve Jobs in such a way

ROFL.

Gulenko has done good work like banter style but he's done a lot of shit too like DCHN and quadra progression. Honestly, I think most of Gulenko's work is not soo good. He is like a university researcher that cares more about getting published then doing quality research.

[niffer]

I actually think he’s mostly good but has made a few glaring mistakes, and so shouldn’t be treated as some kind of irrefutable authority on things.

He’s like a philosopher or storyteller. Not good for exacting sciences.

[domr]

I actually think he’s mostly good but has made a few glaring mistakes, and so shouldn’t be treated as some kind of irrefutable authority on things.

He’s like a philosopher or storyteller. Not good for exacting sciences.

If you look at the overall system the good that Gulenko has done is Banter Styles, Quadra Values and maybe communication styles. That's about it. Technically he is on roughly the same level as Reinin. Below Augusta, and definitely below Jung or Aristotle.