Theories about second instinct and blindsot

[OuterSpaceBoy]

Hello,
From comments i saw online and what i read about instincts i kinda gathered 2 theories, can you help me see clearer.


So the first theory is that the second instinct is here to provide for the dominant one. Hence it would be the one which is more visible at first glance. It is also the place having more anxiety because it is what the person relies on to obtain needs of the main instinct. So if they fail here they feel that their first instinct will never be satisfied. The blindspot is something they don't pay attention to, hence no anxiety toward it, they just find it boring/uninteresting waste of time and will neglect it as much as they possibly can.


The second theory is that the second instinct is the one of relive from the neurosis of the dom instinct. Here no anxiety toward second instinct, only with dom and blindspot, because dom is too important and is too much valued, so anything related to it creates great anxiety and the person feel insecure about the last instinct since they are incompetent with it and are very aware of that but have no clue how to deal with it. Here the second instinct is seen as the only place where the person feel confident and safe. The person does not ignore blindspot but feel very insecure about it and tries to avoid it as much as possible creating a sens of repulsion toward anything related to it.

[Guillaine]

Hi,
I have read the second theory along the lines of the second instinct is your most secure and the one you should concentrate on developing. I think I read that someone like Martin Luther King Jr would have so second and that people with sx second are those who make great works of art and should pursue this. Sounds a bit doubtful.

I haven't come across the first theory as you say it. I'm not an expert on theory of it, only to say for me both the second and even more so the last instinct cause little anxiety or thought for me and neither am I interested in pursuing them. This could mean the second is a source of strength but I see the value in pursuing what I am most passionate about and that is using my first instinct.

[lemontrees]

My opinions:

The first two instincts together create an overall "vibe" of what realm of life feels important. For instance, so + sx = camaraderie and intimacy. Lasting involvement with someone you felt some spark with. The first instinct will lead, but depending on the person the level by which it comes out ahead is different. It feels obvious that these areas of life should be related - to the point where it's not always intuitive which instinct is "being used."

Many ppl think intimacy = "caring friendship" - I have an sx/sp friend who doesn't "check in" on me, she frequently leaves abruptly in the middle of a text string and never comes back. Yet she loves me a lot. So whatever other expectations (or obligations) I felt towards our relationship, it's probably not sx.

Ppl can experience anxiety around the second instinct, and even the third (although it gets twisted b/c it feels...indirect, colored strongly by the first instinct.) But much of the time when experiencing 2nd instinct anxiety the first instinct anxiety is a little bit there too, etc. But the weaker instincts really can get shelved for a while.

~

The Fauvres teach that you can be positively or negatively identified with an instinct, which feels simplistic, but it's true that not everyone "likes" their primary instinct. Plenty of people minimize the extent to which their first instinct rules them. They will say "Oh I don't care about dating much." "I'm not materialistic - money is not my value." This is also, I think, b/c you develop a certain amount of morals, and even ability to handle deprivation around your first; but the person who doesn't "care about dating much" is still putting a lot towards their partner once they are really in a good relationship. The non-materialistic person may not like extravagance but can still work hard to have something in excess of what they use - for a rainy day. Maybe it's a way of saying, "this isn't all that I am - this isn't everything on my mind." Once you start getting enough of the first you can begin to relax towards other things.

One of their interesting points is that you can be positively identified with your last instinct, thereby finding it easier to pick up.

~

I am one of those who find my first instinct too stressful. After studying instincts for a while I see the top instinct as a beginning point, too. It's an area of life you are anchored to no matter what, through which you might ease into the others. When I handle the first enough, it's time to get to enjoy the second, and so on. It's like everything unfolding now into the fullness of life.

[Guillaine]

My opinions:

The first two instincts together create an overall "vibe" of what realm of life feels important. For instance, so + sx = camaraderie and intimacy. Lasting involvement with someone you felt some spark with. The first instinct will lead, but depending on the person the level by which it comes out ahead is different. It feels obvious that these areas of life should be related - to the point where it's not always intuitive which instinct is "being used."

Many ppl think intimacy = "caring friendship" - I have an sx/sp friend who doesn't "check in" on me, she frequently leaves abruptly in the middle of a text string and never comes back. Yet she loves me a lot. So whatever other expectations (or obligations) I felt towards our relationship, it's probably not sx.

Ppl can experience anxiety around the second instinct, and even the third (although it gets twisted b/c it feels...indirect, colored strongly by the first instinct.) But much of the time when experiencing 2nd instinct anxiety the first instinct anxiety is a little bit there too, etc. But the weaker instincts really can get shelved for a while.

~

The Fauvres teach that you can be positively or negatively identified with an instinct, which feels simplistic, but it's true that not everyone "likes" their primary instinct. Plenty of people minimize the extent to which their first instinct rules them. They will say "Oh I don't care about dating much." "I'm not materialistic - money is not my value." This is also, I think, b/c you develop a certain amount of morals, and even ability to handle deprivation around your first; but the person who doesn't "care about dating much" is still putting a lot towards their partner once they are really in a good relationship. The non-materialistic person may not like extravagance but can still work hard to have something in excess of what they use - for a rainy day. Maybe it's a way of saying, "this isn't all that I am - this isn't everything on my mind." Once you start getting enough of the first you can begin to relax towards other things.

One of their interesting points is that you can be positively identified with your last instinct, thereby finding it easier to pick up.

~

I am one of those who find my first instinct too stressful. After studying instincts for a while I see the top instinct as a beginning point, too. It's an area of life you are anchored to no matter what, through which you might ease into the others. When I handle the first enough, it's time to get to enjoy the second, and so on. It's like everything unfolding now into the fullness of life.

I agree with you about the first two being used in conjunction, For me whenever I am connecting/impacting either one on one or through art there is an underlying desire to change society that cannot be separated from what I'm doing in the sx impact sense. Sx is more impact than intimacy for me.

About your sx/sp friend I have read that people with so last don't feel the need to regularly communicate or update people on events in their lives even family members. I noticed this with my ex's family who are mostly sp/sx, even though they enjoy each other's company and are 'people" people they just don't find anything strange about being out of touch for long periods, even something like a car accident wasn't shared at the time it happened. Whereas my extended family is very so heavy and even if they don't like each other they would feel their duty to call fairly regularly or email with news etc.

[OuterSpaceBoy]

Thanks for the great answers!

I'am most probably an Sx/Sp I realised that Sx is what i'am most concerned with, however it is very hidden because i feel it is blocked with my Sp second. I find Sp boring but necessary, that is why i guess it is second, i have alot of neurosis toward Sp, more than with any of the others instinctual variants. I guess So is last because i don't especially hate it, but rather i don't get it.

I red somewhere that last instinct is the one you can joke about and are very immature with it, is that true?
I guess in that way being So last would be more about do not taking how you are seen by other people seriously (not the one that are close to you). Like making yourself looking like a fool, maybe even without realizing it. Also do not caring being seen as an outcast.
As an exemple i used to say to everyone that i was in unemployement or that i was in a special school when i was a kid, i later realised that other people in the same situations try to hide it because the feel ashamed of it. For me i didn't even thought about it that way, it is just my situation.

Well if i got that right it means first theory is mostly true, and that would make sens i'am Sx/Sp..
If not i should start all over again..

[Lord Pixel]

I experience a mixture of the two theories you have.

I have some anxiety of my second instinct, and I feel like if I fail at it my main instinct won't be fulfilled, and I not feel confident and safe in my second instinct, but I also have a smaller amount of anxiety for my blindspot, like I do not show alot of care for SP matter, and that worries me lol. Maybe it's not anxiety but a small amount of concern, like "this is important I should be concerned" but then If ignore d"meh, I'll be concerned later." I do relate more to the first theory than the second though.

As far as joking, hm, Idk, they way you joke about So man that is brave lol. I guess I have made some Sp jokes, like people who are all about some new diet, ugh, give it a rest, eat your quinoa and khale and run a mile and shut up! lol I guess I've made jokes about being broke lol or being financially illiterate.

I agree with the idea that once the first instinct is "fulfilled" the second and 3rd can now be take care of.

I'm So/Sx. Once I have established myself in a group as a valuable member, I notice I start craving closer relations with people around me, I realized being a valuable member in a group isn't enough, I do not feel closeness, and I realize I want that also but only after I have established some role in the group does that become known to me. Like I am happy but not fulfilled, because though I have many "friends" I have no deep close bonds to anyone.

[Guillaine]

It might be a mix of the theories is more helpful. I still think the first instinct is the most neurotic, like you make huge efforts to fulfill it in desperation but at the same time you miss perfectly easy ways to fulfill it that are in front of you if you were't so worried you would notice.

Also I can see what you say about not taking the last instinct seriously, could be something like Charlie Chaplin choosing to impersonate ****** in a movie for so last. With sp last I probably throw resources around a bit ad hoc, spend money on the item on a whim even though I could get the same thing down the road cheaper but I don't feel like walking, and again overlook ways to fulfill it that are more simple.

Maybe maturity and balance is being able to see opportunities for each one clearly and as a potential gateway for fulfilling the others...

[Lord Pixel]

It might be a mix of the theories is more helpful. I still think the first instinct is the most neurotic, like you make huge efforts to fulfill it in desperation but at the same time you miss perfectly easy ways to fulfill it that are in front of you if you were't so worried you would notice.

Also I can see what you say about not taking the last instinct seriously, could be something like Charlie Chaplin choosing to impersonate ****** in a movie for so last. With sp last I probably throw resources around a bit ad hoc, spend money on the item on a whim even though I could get the same thing down the road cheaper but I don't feel like walking, and again overlook ways to fulfill it that are more simple.

Maybe maturity and balance is being able to see opportunities for each one clearly and as a potential gateway for fulfilling the others...

If that is Sp last then yes I relate exactly.

[Olimpia]

Hello,
From comments i saw online and what i read about instincts i kinda gathered 2 theories, can you help me see clearer.


So the first theory is that the second instinct is here to provide for the dominant one. Hence it would be the one which is more visible at first glance. It is also the place having more anxiety because it is what the person relies on to obtain needs of the main instinct. So if they fail here they feel that their first instinct will never be satisfied. The blindspot is something they don't pay attention to, hence no anxiety toward it, they just find it boring/uninteresting waste of time and will neglect it as much as they possibly can.


The second theory is that the second instinct is the one of relive from the neurosis of the dom instinct. Here no anxiety toward second instinct, only with dom and blindspot, because dom is too important and is too much valued, so anything related to it creates great anxiety and the person feel insecure about the last instinct since they are incompetent with it and are very aware of that but have no clue how to deal with it. Here the second instinct is seen as the only place where the person feel confident and safe. The person does not ignore blindspot but feel very insecure about it and tries to avoid it as much as possible creating a sens of repulsion toward anything related to it.

I'd mostly concur with the second theory. The first theory has merit in so far that the second instinct can indeed be your salvation and aid when you are struggling with your first instinct. I called it the Catalyst for that particular reason. I'd disagree with it being a main source of anxiety. Whenever someone becomes unhealthy, the second instinct is typically the last one to go nuts. It typically starts with the first, then the last, and then the second one. A clear sign that someone is quite unhealthy is when all their instincts (especially the second one – the typically most balanced one) are in jeopardy and suck, basically.

[OuterSpaceBoy]

I'd mostly concur with the second theory. The first theory has merit in so far that the second instinct can indeed be your salvation and aid when you are struggling with your first instinct. I called it the Catalyst for that particular reason. I'd disagree with it being a main source of anxiety. Whenever someone becomes unhealthy, the second instinct is typically the last one to go nuts. It typically starts with the first, then the last, and then the second one. A clear sign that someone is quite unhealthy is when all their instincts (especially the second one – the typically most balanced one) are in jeopardy and suck, basically.

Thanks! That is very interesting and useful.
I also found that the other day.
http://enneagramsubtypes.weebly.com/...stackings.html

So to sums it up.

1. First instinct. Is the most important to us, but also the one with more stress related to it. So we are generally not so good at it.
2. Second instinct. The place we are better at because there is no stress in this area.
3. Blindspot. We don't like it, avoid it, hence are not good at it.

In my case it is a bit weird because i worry alot about Sp matters, actually most of my life evolve around that stress. I find keeping up Sp exhausting, but i spent alot of time thinking about how to be healthy, sleep enough,...

However i don't feel like it is the most important aspect of my life, which i feel to be Sx. I dream about a future perfect relationship, and everything i do is somehow to prepare to that perfect moment to happen. All the Sp stress is because i feel that i need to settle those practical matters, so i then will be able to obtain those things which are the perfect life along with the perfect relationship i dream of.

That would mean i'am Sp/Sx and not Sx/Sp according to this theory? Keeping in mind that i'am a 4 and the variants of this enneagram type are also a bit confused...