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Thread: Stop using MBTI Notation.

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    Default PSA: Sign the Pledge to stop using MBTI Notation.

    WIP
    Last edited by domr; 07-04-2018 at 12:30 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by domr View Post
    This is not MBTI. Stop using their confusing and incorrect notation.
    Below is logically consistant notation.

    Sensation/Intuition (S/I)
    Logic/Ethics (L/E)
    Introversion/Extraversion (-/+)*
    Demensions (# 1-4)

    Te -> L+
    4D Te -> L+4
    SiTe -> S-L+
    LSE -> LS+

    *E/I needs to be changed to +/- to avoid confusion with S/I.
    ...and then we'd be encroaching on -/+ for IEs. not enough to completely obliterate the symbol, but damn... base fxn for, say, EII, would be +E-.

    One-letter IE notation is disjointed and ugly on multiple levels. All IEs are atomized; stripped of context, shredded of purpose. Letters overlap and invade notation used for more fundamental concepts.

    "Fe" directly links to overcategories of ethics and extroversion; obviously, blatantly. The classic family of letter/symbol gestalts hold approachable and accessible meaning/content, and provide outroads to greater contexts still.
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    Quote Originally Posted by woofwoofl View Post
    ...and then we'd be encroaching on -/+ for IEs. not enough to completely obliterate the symbol, but damn... base fxn for, say, EII, would be +E-.
    I have no clue what you are talking about here.

    EII -> EI-

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    an object in motion woofwoofl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by domr View Post
    I have no clue what you are talking about here.
    Re: -/+, Gulenko did it first. "-" and "+" have already been symbols in our vocabulary for well over half a decade.
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    Too much confusion about +/- too many meanings out there and people get confused.

    I'd just use letters. For example why people do not use Te-r and Te-p (result and process).
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    Quote Originally Posted by woofwoofl View Post
    Re: -/+, Gulenko did it first. "-" and "+" have already been symbols in our vocabulary for well over half a decade.
    1) That work isn't canon i.e. Model A(ugusta)
    2) It's illogical. You cannot separate functions from blocks then talk about the functions as if they were still part of the block. e.g. -Fe = SiFe, or what I now call S-E+.

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    Not gonna do it sorry
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    an object in motion woofwoofl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by domr View Post
    1) That work isn't canon i.e. Augusta Model A.
    Augusta has deceased. We're here.

    Quote Originally Posted by domr View Post
    2) It's illogical. You cannot separate functions form blocks then talk about the functions as if they were still part of the block. e.g. -Fe = SiFe, or what I now call S-E+.
    why not? And why would any of us here make way for MBTI? Why cede a sliver of a fraction of a millimeter of ground to MBTI?
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Not gonna do it sorry
    submit

    I want to use this system just because its so zany, sort of like an inside joke or testament to how everyone's got their own way of doing things in socionics and how shared meaning and understanding tends to give way to personal insistence on preference, ironically in the name of unifying all men etc etc

    these could be powerful symbols for sure

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    Kind of remind me the time when I studied bit nuclear physics. Sometimes they use totally confusing notation for nuclear reactions. Nothing new under the sun.

    Some sort of hidden pleasure of LII and their Ti-r (lol, now it has been established) or how Ben Vasserlan says: NiTx etc (and it makes no sense to add x as it is redundant). Furthermore for example ILI sounds much less restrictive as it just tells the thing how it is.
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    Model A​nus.
    [Today 07:57 AM] Raver: Life is a ride that lasts very long, but still a ride. It is a dream that we have yet to awaken from.

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    Default shapes were also here first

    Quote Originally Posted by domr View Post
    The entire reason you are here is because you no longer believe in MBTI and their interpretation of Jung, e.g. thinking/feeling vs logic/ethics and INTJ -> INTp -> ILI.
    No -- explanatory power is my metric. Socionics gives me more.

    Quote Originally Posted by domr View Post
    By using MBTI terminology you 1) weaken your explanation by lumping yourself with all the other people using MBTI terminology and 2) you make it more difficult for new people to learn this material because they are burden with nonrepresentative labels, ethics being labeled as F 3) that causes them to misconstrue the meanings of these words.
    Shared terminology leaves inroads open -- people can move from MBTI to Socionics more naturally. Shapes are steep enough. Shapes don't bleed on pre-existing shared language.
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    I think its a simple cart before the horse problem, once domr releases his system people can choose whether to adopt it. debating whether or not to abandon the old terminology is sort of pointless when there's no systemic replacement.. its would just increase the amount of jargon, but people would still have to learn the old system if for no other reason that all the resources explaining this new terminology uses the old terminology and then its like why use the new terminology at that point without a system in place that capitalizes on it and that could be wholy digested without having to learn any or very little of the old. you can say its more elegant but that's only because you already (allegedly) have learned the base you propose to replace but have nothing to replace it with. in other words, to get to here ones not saving any work by adopting this terminology, its only adding to it, because the terminology relies on learning the thing it supposedly replaces, thus it doesn't actually displace it

    gulenko also has a ballin system in place already that very nicely captures the psychological charge that each function can carry

    tTnFb_W-2paIMZkAn7SIdPZAVvd0HzTirimdFQdsKE4.jpg

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    Why do you think MBTI is confusing? They´re basically using Jungs´ notation.

    MBTI´s functional descriptions are stupid, but their E/I S/N T/F J/P typing system is pretty clear and uncomplicated. UNDERSTANDABLE TO EVERYONE. Something the system you describe isn´t.
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    Quote Originally Posted by domr View Post
    I just released the new system, it's in the new edited 1st post in thread. i haven't released the analysis yet because I am not entirely done. The reason I released this work was because it was finally complete and I would rather test the waters and maybe get some feedback (lol, get good feedback on an online forum) before I finalize everything.

    @Gulenko, he is good for his flirtation styles and speaking styles but his descriptions of the types is MBTI bad and this work shows he has no clue as to how the functions work together in the block as a unit (which is the work that I have not yet released).
    godspeed domr

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    Quote Originally Posted by domr View Post
    Thinking/Feeling are toxic words. People believe that thinking is rational and good while feeling is irrational and bad.
    Which people?

    Are you sure it´s not just your opinion?
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    Socionics notation depends on physical sequence and has non-unique letters such as LII; INTj is superior because one can mix it up (TIjN) and still correctly identify the type. However, I would prefer using Socionics-like symbols because the words attached to the letters have ambiguous meanings, but there would need to be a integrated mechanism in the symbols to indicate dominance - and perhaps something to indicate higher relative usage (sub-type). One could use an opposite color dot in the symbol to indicate the dominant set of processes and perhaps enlarge the symbol that is the most used set of processes......

    a.k.a. I/O

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    stop saying baseless bs that MBT and Socionics use different types, but not Jung's ones in compatible notations

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    Quote Originally Posted by domr View Post
    @Rebelondeck

    I thought about this before I made my system.

    1) The problem with symbols is that anything nonQWERTY is difficult for most people to type. It also requires memorizing symbols that bare no relation to the word. Thus the notation needs to be derived from the functions and attitudes.
    2) I fixed the non-unique letters with the +/- designation. LII is LI-. This is the most convenient change for existing Socionics users. I also considered L-I but chose to stick with LI- for reason 3.
    3) The advantage of the order is that it makes pronouncing the type very easy. Logical Sensory Introvert. Introvert and Extravert becomes the noun with the functions as adjectives.
    4) Order takes care of the J/P preference and it stops people from being biased on this dichotomy since the preference is built into the functions.
    That's why I said Socionics-like. It could be any symbols so long as distance is put between Socionics and varying dictionary meanings of the symbols, e.g. intuitive, logical, etc. I see a problem with +/- because they have recognized meanings that could pose ambiguity.

    a.k.a. I/O

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    If you would create major socionics website, you could impose different system and it could be eventually adopted but you struggle with properly describing this system in just a forum post giving references to little known model R. But it would be rather not be accepted easily anyway and people would complain.
    But telling people to change the system to different from what is on ALL websites is pretty futile.
    Using different notation than anyone else does not make any logic really.
    The reasons for this are not strong either, there is no reason to change ILE to IL+. People are not getting confused by I either, I don't see really problem.
    Don't forget that the purpouse of this website is also to acquire people from MBTI world, so using similar notation is welcomed. And I dont see anything wrong with using SiTe because other notations are just less useful, like more difficult.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andreas View Post
    I respect what you believe, Sol.
    People believe in Santa Clause. While that's what I think.

    > Are you LS+? Are you my dual?

    This needs the theme with your video-interview.

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    So basically this is just saying that a Type is birthed from three dichotomies and THEN develops a fourth dichotomy and because of that we aren't allowed to use a naming system that suggests we have to choose P vs J instead of it being caused.


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    [When I look at it this first it seems nice self-promotion.]

    So what are the real benefits we get from here? I see that it loses lots of descriptive value.
    I think lower case third letter does more justice like ILe and makes it more readable and easily perceptible.

    I never think IE's as in numerically ordered positions because it just depends on interpretation hence they carry very little meaning (mostly to separate blocks based on even and odd numbers). Similarly functional names make much more sense (due to limited scope while still have relatively many elements). I prefer to call hydrogen as hydrogen not Z=1 (it does have much more use than functional order of numbers).

    This is analogous of making this stuff less reachable.
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    I would prefer just using the first two functions, eg. FiSe, TiNe, TeSi, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yours Truly View Post
    I would prefer just using the first two functions, eg. FiSe, TiNe, TeSi, etc.
    The problem with that is 2 fold.

    1) It's still MBTI notation where T/F vs. L/E.

    2) It makes it impossible to separate talking about the blocks vs the types.

    3) I made some modifications and I don't use the system as-is in the original post anymore. i call the ESI an IDE now but I still refer to the functions as -E4+S3

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    My type is @di-//null<;$^8¨£

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    Quote Originally Posted by Liriope View Post
    I'm nearly finished with my research and I've completed the psychological model. People are going to have to use my standard to talk about my types; which they will want to do because my system is actually complete. You are an LDO-L in my system.

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    Qpar LSmN FreN SuwZ etc. those are the new, super accurate everyone has to use them standards. For what reason and why. . . well, we can just make that up later.

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