Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 40 of 59

Thread: Kara - What's my type?

  1. #1

    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    91
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Post Kara - What's my type?

    .
    Last edited by Kara; 09-16-2018 at 10:21 AM.

  2. #2
    falsehope's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    TIM
    ILE ENTp-Ti
    Posts
    441
    Mentioned
    39 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default



    You sound like IEE to me, but that's without in-depth analysis, as there isn't much useful information you pass IMO.

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    8,660
    Mentioned
    744 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    not anyone here follows to falsehope's typing methods. so you have nothing to affraid. I just sacrifice a couple of goats to get the type and some meat

    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...=1#post1096450
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

  4. #4

    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    91
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    .
    Last edited by Kara; 09-16-2018 at 10:21 AM.

  5. #5
    falsehope's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    TIM
    ILE ENTp-Ti
    Posts
    441
    Mentioned
    39 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    From these tests results it looks more like NF, so it's possible to narrow it down to IEI, EIE, EII and IEE. So maybe this time I would guess IEI and EII.

    Here is comparision, not best, but it's something http://www.sociotype.com/tools/type-comparison/IEI-EII

  6. #6

    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    8,660
    Mentioned
    744 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kara View Post
    Is there any test in your link @Sol that would get you and @falsehope "more meat"?
    Tests should give lesser chance to be typed correctly.
    We'll stay without the meat today, as the materialization is still beyond my typing skills.

    > Can it make a difference that English is not my first language?

    should not, if you understand what was asked there

    Ru's test points on F-N type:
    Ne+Ni vs Se+Si = 46 vs 30 = 60%
    Fe+Fi vs Te+Ti = 39 vs 22 = 64%

    Enlgish test:
    http://aimtoknow.com/test_beta

    in case you know Russian:
    http://www.socioclub.org/tests/?testid=gulenko

    in case you have a lot of free time and want to try original Socionics test (as it's based on IR theory):
    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...-test-(by-Sol)
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

  7. #7

    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    91
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    .
    Last edited by Kara; 09-16-2018 at 10:21 AM. Reason: I can't write

  8. #8

    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    8,660
    Mentioned
    744 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kara View Post
    I'm not sure I understand the grouping method
    The groups there - are people of the same type. You need to look at them and evaluate by the offered there criterion, to compare with other groups and to sort them. This may take ~8 hours. It can be done in several days, but on the final stage you should do surface look of all groups again.

    > I think I have a hard time differentiating between EIE and IEI.

    IR may help.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

  9. #9
    falsehope's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    TIM
    ILE ENTp-Ti
    Posts
    441
    Mentioned
    39 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    You pointed out few things that would say you are introverted, so it would be more like IEI.

  10. #10
    Cosmic Teapot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    TIM
    SLI 5w6 sp/so
    Posts
    1,174
    Mentioned
    124 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    @Kara
    Hey, I’m Kara. I’ve been very scared to register on the forum and to do this questionnaire. I hope it’s not because of the lack of introspection, but more because of that fact that while I’m really trying to find roots and somehwere I could belong – a static place that welcomes me anytime I leave - I don’t think personality as we see is necessarily something that exists. I know I was different 5 years ago, and maybe 5 minutes ago, and not just my taste, but maybe even the way I was thinking or making decisions. I was very afraid back then that if I won’t find a way to call or see myself in one way, I won’t really exist. Today I think the opposite – the fact that I know how much we change, and that I’m something that will always change like something fluid, minute to minute gives me freedom and hope, the freedom, because I feel nowdays I’m the very thing that has the perception of all the thoughts, feelings and changing forms of me, and hope, because I know I could change if I’d like to, anytime I would make a mistake, or would need to rethink the way I live.

    I don't want to be a mood killer but finding stability in a type sounds pleasant but what you will most likely find is mildy conflicting type descriptions, people on the forum who challenge your typing for whtaever reasons. Then someday you find out that you don't fit a certain desciption 100% so either you switch types endlessly or you try to find more "precision" in your type by adding a ennegram with wings, a tritype, your hogwarts house and so on...until you end up with some thing that sounds more like a barcode than a "personality"


    for example:
    Hello I'm an ENTP ILE-3Ti-C 7w6 5w4 2w3 Rawenclaw Thunderbird Sagittarius ...I'm also a self diagnosed Borderline
    See that as a warning.

    Tell me about yourself
    I’m currently a university student, studying psychology, philosophy and arts. I have a hard time introducing myself this way, I usually wait until I get to a topic, when I can just pour all the weird things on someone, or suddenly be very opened and honest about a serious topic. I also believe I'm socially ambiverted.
    Off topic: I'm a bit baffled. How is it possible to study three things at once?
    What do you consider weird? What is it about a individual or situation that makes it feel ok to be "suddenly very open and honest"

    What do you study or do for a living? How did you come to do that? What do you like or dislike about it?
    When I had to decide what to study, I knew there were one or two things that was already a huge part of my life. It was psychology, philosophy and arts. I know about the last two, but psychology felt like I suddenly realized how much I analyzed everyone around me. And when not analyzing, I feel things about people, like hunches that tell me what they feel, or what's going on.
    HOw do you use your "hunches" in daily live? Would you cal it emphatizing with people. What do you think about manipulation? Would you find that fair/ethically correct or wrong. Would you say that you mostly correct with your "hunches" ?

    What are your values, and why?
    Being open-minded. It helps me to deal with obstacles, lets me learn a lot, and even others could benefit from it. I think the other thing is not being the part of any politically correct fashion movement, and being able to talk about anything. I know this is more complicated on a society level, let me talk about from my personal view. If I can act as a proper human being, there is no need for the thought police. It’s how and why you say things – and if you can understand it, it helps to know yourself more.

    Oh, and being more laid-back. I can get way too dramatic and serious, and I like to remind myself of that.
    How do you determine that something is a politically correct fashion movement? So you make your own research or are there any people whose opinions you respect a lot? Do you find expression yourself and your opinions to be more important that the group atmosphere. Would you say that sometimes you're able to push your own values onto others? What is the cause for becoming "dramatic and serious"?

    What do you look for in friends? In romantic relationships?
    Depht, intelligence, open-mindedness, kindess and a good sense of humor. I like people who have faced something dark before, and got to know themselves and I can feel they thought about the world as well. I feel I can’t trust someone who didnt face some hard things and their own darkness, it almost feels like I can’t connect to anything.
    One of my friends said it really well: „Your problem is that you are lookin for some kind of Holy Grail in everyone and everything, and if you can’t see it, you’ll get impatient and bored.”
    Concerning your talk about darkness and struggle: You'll probably love Jordan B. Peterson and Nietzsche then. So far I'd say Beta NF.




    In what areas of life can you manage well on your own? In what areas of your life would you like help?
    It needs help every way. I have my resources though. I am good at having an intuition about myself and others (mostly in emotional ways, patterns, things they I/they don’t want to see), but I can get way too tangled in my thoughts, so I like to talk to friends from time to time.
    I’m also not the best with money, I spend everything instantly that inspires me, and I’m not really interested in status or career, but more interested in learning and creating. This basically means I can be very useless.
    Useless to whom? Which retard said that? I though you're caring and emotionally intuitive? Maybe you need an SLE to motivate you lol. So far I'd say IEI (low energy and potentially Te-Polr with money)

    What traits do you find endearing that others might dislike? What traits are considered positive/neutral by others but tend to annoy you?
    I like when someone is maybe loud or full of energy, and takes the initiative, maybe reckless. I like when someone is politically incorrect, say things out loud (not an idiot though).
    I don’t like when someone is very quiet or preppy.
    May I introduce you to the Beta Quadras lord and savior, the SLE: [url]http://wikisocion.net/en/index.php?title=SLE_Profile_by_Gulenko[url]

    All in all I would say IEI > very introverted EIE. Hope that helps a bit. My main point is that you make your own research. If you want to know more you could try to type the people around you and think about your intertype relationships. For example if you're IEI it's unlikely that you're best friends with and ESTj (your conflictor). In that case the type of EIE would be incorrect.
    Also, Stratiyevskaya wrote incredibly detailed descriptions about dual relationships http://wikisocion.net/en/index.php?t...Stratiyevskaya take a look maybe and see if it fits


    Great, Kara, now I can't get this song out of my head again. It's 1 am over here.


  11. #11

    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    91
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    .
    Last edited by Kara; 09-16-2018 at 10:22 AM.

  12. #12

    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    91
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    .
    Last edited by Kara; 09-16-2018 at 10:22 AM.

  13. #13
    aka Penny Dreadful Feathers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Behind your tonsils
    TIM
    Artfully obscene
    Posts
    488
    Mentioned
    46 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kara View Post
    I've always had an issue understanding this. What if I'm socially introverted, but my first function is extraverted? Can someone be functionwise extraverted, but be introverted as a person?

    Yes they can.
    Also, hello and welcome to our humble abode.
    An example of socioally-introverted extrovert is Neil Gaiman (because i love him, that's why). I type him IEE,
    In this video you can clearly see his use of Ne and Fi. Things that are not, however, speciffied in the video is that he is really off-beat and pretty isolated, at least when compared to his wife (who by the way is Amanda Fucking Palmer, a very wild woman mind you).


    BRB, 🌼 Pushing Daisies 🌼

  14. #14

    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    8,660
    Mentioned
    744 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kara View Post
    What if I'm socially introverted, but my first function is extraverted? Can someone be functionwise extraverted, but be introverted as a person?
    It's possible to some degree, when people shift the behavior to the side of other types. Like extraverts may reduce social contacts compared to average for them. By nontypes reasons like emotional problems, the lack of free time or other. It's why nonverbal and IR is important to take into account also.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

  15. #15

    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    91
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    .
    Last edited by Kara; 09-16-2018 at 10:22 AM.

  16. #16
    ouronis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    TIM
    ref to ptr to self
    Posts
    1,174
    Mentioned
    57 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    android

  17. #17

    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    8,660
    Mentioned
    744 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kara View Post
    It's interesting how in Socionics being an introvert or an extravert is not based on your socializing and the need for it (if I understand correctly).
    Jung's types is what generally dominates in your consciousness. The particular behavior is secondary and under the influence of different factors, besides the type.
    Extraverts want or need more of social contacts than introverts, and they generally have them more. But the concrete extravert may behave in other way too, if he is under the factors which are not common in that environment and most extraverts are without them.
    Also social contacts is about people, so partly relates to F type - the interest and abbilities of communications with people. The least of socializing may to have T-I types.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

  18. #18

    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    91
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    .
    Last edited by Kara; 09-16-2018 at 10:22 AM.

  19. #19
    I don't see it that way BFGDoomer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    Examining the next one
    Posts
    451
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I'm thinking EII just from reading your post, but take it with a grain of salt. You sound a lot like an EII i know.
    Nothing is so difficult as not deceiving oneself.

  20. #20

    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    91
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    .
    Last edited by Kara; 09-16-2018 at 10:22 AM.

  21. #21
    I don't see it that way BFGDoomer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    Examining the next one
    Posts
    451
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kara View Post
    Thank you! Hmm, I had issues with the only EII I've known, becaue we didn't really understand what the other was talking about, and most of my friends are from beta quadra, or Se doms. At this point I think I give up.
    Lol, i know the feeling. The fun is in deepening your understanding of how you think by observing yourself evaluating these different ways of percieving information, at least IMO. With this mindset you'll surely find value in Socionics without necessarily knowing your own 'type'.
    Nothing is so difficult as not deceiving oneself.

  22. #22
    squark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    2,696
    Mentioned
    212 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kara View Post
    I also think I'm using way more Ti+Fe than Fi+Te, but I can be wrong.
    I agree with Fe valuing. I haven't read it all closely yet, just glanced through skimming, and haven't even looked at part 2 yet, but this among other things:
    I like when someone is maybe loud or full of energy, and takes the initiative, maybe reckless. I like when someone is politically incorrect, say things out loud (not an idiot though).

    I don’t like when someone is very quiet or preppy.
    says probably Fe-valuing (and most likely an introvert) possibly IEI to me.

    and this:

    Ne:26
    Fe: 24
    Ni:20
    Ti:16
    Se:16
    Fi:15
    Si:14
    Te:6
    says NF of some variety.

    And this:
    Sometimes I go out of my comfort zone and tell them something that I know will make them happy and is actually true (like telling old women with green or pink hair that they look really cool).
    made me smile.

    Will look through the rest now, and if something jumps out at me or contradicts either NF or Fe-valuing I'll say so.

    Edit: Nothing contradicted it. I'm thinking IEI would be a good place to start, but agree with Cosmic that it's best if you do your own research rather than taking anyone else's word for it when you're typing. And imo the label isn't the point, the understanding of oneself and others is, so it doesn't matter if you leave the typing of yourself open-ended. That might even be the better approach overall.
    Last edited by squark; 06-02-2018 at 02:36 PM.

  23. #23

    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    91
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    .
    Last edited by Kara; 09-16-2018 at 10:22 AM.

  24. #24
    Seriously Judicious Emotivist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    eastern U.S.
    TIM
    ENFp, IEE
    Posts
    2,583
    Mentioned
    240 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kara View Post
    Thank you very much! I agree it would be a nice point to start at, I think what doubt I have left is more connected to my dominant function (Ni or Fe). I feel anytime I read something, I am nodding ("oh yes, I could see that"), which leaves all the descriptions as a possibility. But the way you and @BFGDoomer said it, I agree maybe this should only be a tool for understanding, not finding a type.
    I think IEI also.
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

    .
    .
    .


  25. #25
    Petter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    TIM
    ILI
    Posts
    322
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kara View Post
    Thank you very much! I agree it would be a nice point to start at, I think what doubt I have left is more connected to my dominant function (Ni or Fe). I feel anytime I read something, I am nodding ("oh yes, I could see that"), which leaves all the descriptions as a possibility. But the way you and @BFGDoomer said it, I agree maybe this should only be a tool for understanding, not finding a type.
    It is easier using the four Jungian dichotomies (or mbti... J/P is problematic, though). The problem is that the functions are not well-defined.

    "Ni: perception of time (intangible connections between processes separated in time and space: sense of when things might happen, patterns of events, abstract representations of processes)"

    This is a poor description of Ni.


    mbti.jpg


    ------


    If you know that you are (for example) an IEI or an EII, then you can use the functions (Ni vs. Fi).
    Last edited by Petter; 06-03-2018 at 05:55 AM.

  26. #26

    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    91
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    .
    Last edited by Kara; 09-16-2018 at 10:23 AM.

  27. #27
    Petter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    TIM
    ILI
    Posts
    322
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kara View Post
    Hey, thank you


    I understand what you mean. I tried using the functions, because as most people, I'm in the middle of the extraversion/introversion scale, and felt the functions would might give me more depht to analyze how I work.
    I don't think you can be in the middle of the extraversion/introversion scale. You either get energy from being alone or you get energy from social interaction... one contradicts the other.

    EDIT: To be honest, I don't know if this is accurate or not. An alternative view could be that introverts need more alone time.

    "The extraverted introtim: These people tend to be socially involved and feel comfortable expressing themselves publicly without feelings of self-consciousness. They tend not to think a lot or hesitate before speaking out loud and are highly verbal."

    EDIT: This could still be an introvert. This is an extrovert.

    I prefer this description of extroverts/introverts (but I still don't think there are any ambiverts):

    "The fourth ring describes how people interact with their environment. Individuals who prefer more overt action [saying and doing] during covert acting [conception and perception] (observing or introspecting) are described as expressive, whereas people who prefer more covert acting during overt [or inactive] action are described as attentive. Some associative words for "expressive": active, chatty, conversant, effusive, fluent, profuse, verbose. Some associative words for "attentive": alert, all eyes, all ears, aware, chary, circumspect, heedful, wary, watchful. The expressive versus attentive dichotomy is the most contextual. In other words, overt action and covert reaction is more dictated by the environmental circumstance at the moment."

    ----

    http://www.temperamentorder.com/expressivities.php

    The 2 Expressivities

    Intragating/Extragating are the two expressivities. Similar to temperament, the two expressivities come in a sequential order for each LTO personality type. The expressivities are separate from the four temperaments, but considered part of temperament order. For example, Extragating - Guardian, Artisan, Rational then Idealist (E.gari) is a complete definition of temperament order for the LTO type Manager (ESTJ.gari). The additional letters in the type name are not needed, but remain for mapping and historical reference.

    In 1921 Carl Jung introduced the two metaphorical "attitude-types" Introverted/Extroverted. In 1957 Myers & Briggs explained Introverted/Extroverted as Reserved/Expressive and labeled them I/E. In 1978 Keirsey kept the Jung/Myers definitions for I/E in his work. In 2011 Lewis replaced Introverted/Extroverted with Intragating/Extragating definitions.

    Why change to Intragating/Extragating? They are verb-based and observable. They don't carry any bad definitions of Introverted/Extroverted. They work with the I/E letters for familiarity.


    Intragating (I)


    To Intragate is to intermittently communicate to others about goals in social situations. The goals vary by temperament, but all Intragating types selectively communicate them.

    Many Intragators excel at non-verbal communication, they communicate only what is important to others and use personal effort to achieve their goals. In social situations, Intragators more often think to themselves before communicating than think out loud to others. Intragating does not mean shy, cold or unsociable.The I types are on the Organizers (IJ) and Designers (IP) role wheels.


    Extragating (E)


    To Extragate is to continually communicate to others about goals in social situations. The goals vary by temperament, but all Extragating types readily communicate them.

    Many extragators excel at verbal communication, they communicate everything they are doing to others and use it as a skill to have others or groups achieve their goals. In social situations, Extragators more often think out loud to others than think to themselves before communicating. Extragating does not mean friendly, or sociable.The E types are on the Instructors (EJ) and Motivators (EP) role wheels.
    Last edited by Petter; 06-03-2018 at 10:37 AM.

  28. #28
    Seriously Judicious Emotivist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    eastern U.S.
    TIM
    ENFp, IEE
    Posts
    2,583
    Mentioned
    240 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Petter View Post
    I don't think you can be in the middle of the extraversion/introversion scale. You either get energy from being alone or you get energy from social interaction... one contradicts the other.

    EDIT: To be honest, I don't know if this is accurate or not. An alternative view could be that introverts need more alone time.

    "The extraverted introtim: These people tend to be socially involved and feel comfortable expressing themselves publicly without feelings of self-consciousness. They tend not to think a lot or hesitate before speaking out loud and are highly verbal."

    EDIT: This could still be an introvert. This is an extrovert.

    I prefer this description of extroverts/introverts (but I still don't think there are any ambiverts):

    "The fourth ring describes how people interact with their environment. Individuals who prefer more overt action [saying and doing] during covert acting [conception and perception] (observing or introspecting) are described as expressive, whereas people who prefer more covert acting during overt [or inactive] action are described as attentive. Some associative words for "expressive": active, chatty, conversant, effusive, fluent, profuse, verbose. Some associative words for "attentive": alert, all eyes, all ears, aware, chary, circumspect, heedful, wary, watchful. The expressive versus attentive dichotomy is the most contextual. In other words, overt action and covert reaction is more dictated by the environmental circumstance at the moment."

    ----

    http://www.temperamentorder.com/expressivities.php

    The 2 Expressivities

    Intragating/Extragating are the two expressivities. Similar to temperament, the two expressivities come in a sequential order for each LTO personality type. The expressivities are separate from the four temperaments, but considered part of temperament order. For example, Extragating - Guardian, Artisan, Rational then Idealist (E.gari) is a complete definition of temperament order for the LTO type Manager (ESTJ.gari). The additional letters in the type name are not needed, but remain for mapping and historical reference.

    In 1921 Carl Jung introduced the two metaphorical "attitude-types" Introverted/Extroverted. In 1957 Myers & Briggs explained Introverted/Extroverted as Reserved/Expressive and labeled them I/E. In 1978 Keirsey kept the Jung/Myers definitions for I/E in his work. In 2011 Lewis replaced Introverted/Extroverted with Intragating/Extragating definitions.

    Why change to Intragating/Extragating? They are verb-based and observable. They don't carry any bad definitions of Introverted/Extroverted. They work with the I/E letters for familiarity.


    Intragating (I)


    To Intragate is to intermittently communicate to others about goals in social situations. The goals vary by temperament, but all Intragating types selectively communicate them.

    Many Intragators excel at non-verbal communication, they communicate only what is important to others and use personal effort to achieve their goals. In social situations, Intragators more often think to themselves before communicating than think out loud to others. Intragating does not mean shy, cold or unsociable.The I types are on the Organizers (IJ) and Designers (IP) role wheels.


    Extragating (E)


    To Extragate is to continually communicate to others about goals in social situations. The goals vary by temperament, but all Extragating types readily communicate them.

    Many extragators excel at verbal communication, they communicate everything they are doing to others and use it as a skill to have others or groups achieve their goals. In social situations, Extragators more often think out loud to others than think to themselves before communicating. Extragating does not mean friendly, or sociable.The E types are on the Instructors (EJ) and Motivators (EP) role wheels.
    This is interesting. I am IEE, and that is said to be the most introverted extrovert. I always thought it was because my parents were both I's, and they encouraged a quiet home. I like a quiet home, and my SLI husband, when we are home alone, seems to be the "E" of the two of us! Sometimes I actually say "I need to be quiet now"...

    I studied MBTI some years back, and I always liked the explanation that came in a book I read, which was probably Gifts Differing. The analogy was the General of the army and the General's Aide. The Extrovert would stand outside the tent, giving orders and supervising important stuff with the people, leaving his Aide in the tent to take care of less important matters. The Introvert would stay inside the tent taking care of important matters, sending his Aide out to deal with the people.

    So you see, its all on where you keep the bulk, the important part of your personality. If you are an Introvert with a very competent Aide, no one thinks you are a shy, introverted person, but the bulk of you just isn't for everybody... Hope that makes ssense. Its how I internalized what I read many years ago, and it always works for me in differentiating E/I...

    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

    .
    .
    .


  29. #29
    Spermatozoa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Inside you
    TIM
    ILE-Ne 793 sx/so
    Posts
    1,933
    Mentioned
    150 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Tests mean little unless you know how to interpret them. Based on your self-analysis, I lean towards EII. At the very least, strong Fi is evident in your response, and this will allow you to refine your type down to four possibilities if you try hard enough.

    I wish I could say more, but I feel the urge to retire and sink more piss. We will see each other soon.
    You know that you are dead when someone puts you into a box and you are unable to devise a way to get out of it




  30. #30

    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    TIM
    LSI-Se sx
    Posts
    4,476
    Mentioned
    483 Post(s)
    Tagged
    25 Thread(s)

    Default

    Beta NF. IEI or EIE-H (DCNH).

    EIE-H description:

    The Imaginative Mentor
    Prototypes : prophets and esoteric interpreters/readers, like Nostradamus or Blavatskaya
    A person with a very developed imagination, sees what is happening around in terms of fate or hidden meaning. Waits for an event or a sign announcing the beginning of change. Prudent and farsighted, can correctly allocate activities in time. Can wait the right moment. Inclined to pessimism which he prefers to call common sense.
    Often interested in the unusual, mysterious phenomena. Often anticipates/guesses future developments. His well-being and mood change a lot. He is distrustful of information that does not fit his view of the phenomenon or person. Slow to make decisions, weighs in a very detailed way all the "pros" and "cons". Can hardly reach internal balance, so he is very annoyed and irritated when someone breaks his rest.
    Can listen to people during quite a long time, will give his opinion unobtrusively without providing any straight answer. Often mediates between disputing parties while they are trying to win him over, each to their side. Can preach two conflicting friends for a long time by explaining the position or the motivation of the opponent to each of them.
    Tends to prefer measured and relaxed way of life. Undemanding but disorganized at home. Inclined to aesthetic expression in his writings or handicrafts. Pretty suspicious, is afraid of diseases and injuries. Can be minimalistic but appreciates a lot comfort and coziness. It is difficult for him to systematically take care of his health.
    Likes to do many things at once. Moody and picky when having a choice, be it in clothing or in personal relationships. Unpleasant things are usually put off. Pretty unsure of himself, scared of being ridiculed or rejected. Critical towards their physique and abilities.
    Spends a lot of time alone, while reading rare authors or listening to special music. At such moments his imagination shows him unusual events or archetypes. Often suffers from recurrent depression or panic attacks. Is somehow attracted by the dark sides of life.

  31. #31
    Spermatozoa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Inside you
    TIM
    ILE-Ne 793 sx/so
    Posts
    1,933
    Mentioned
    150 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kara View Post
    Introduction

    Hey, I’m Kara. I’ve been very scared to register on the forum and to do this questionnaire. I hope it’s not because of the lack of introspection, but more because of that fact that while I’m really trying to find roots and somehwere I could belong – a static place that welcomes me anytime I leave - I don’t think personality as we see is necessarily something that exists. I know I was different 5 years ago, and maybe 5 minutes ago, and not just my taste, but maybe even the way I was thinking or making decisions. I was very afraid back then that if I won’t find a way to call or see myself in one way, I won’t really exist. Today I think the opposite – the fact that I know how much we change, and that I’m something that will always change like something fluid, minute to minute gives me freedom and hope, the freedom, because I feel nowdays I’m the very thing that has the perception of all the thoughts, feelings and changing forms of me, and hope, because I know I could change if I’d like to, anytime I would make a mistake, or would need to rethink the way I live.

    So why am I here? I’m not really sure, but I know I want to be here, and see what you all think about my type. I guess one extreme just comes with another one.
    Clearly you are an NF of some sort. You ask a lot of existential questions with a rhetorical bent which is more typical of a Ni-valuer than a Ne-valuer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kara View Post
    hotelambush Questionnaire
    Quote Originally Posted by Kara View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kara View Post


    What are your values, and why?
    Being open-minded. It helps me to deal with obstacles, lets me learn a lot, and even others could benefit from it. I think the other thing is not being the part of any politically correct fashion movement, and being able to talk about anything. I know this is more complicated on a society level, let me talk about from my personal view. If I can act as a proper human being, there is no need for the thought police. It’s how and why you say things – and if you can understand it, it helps to know yourself more.
    OK you are definitely not a Delta. Your desire for the freedom to talk about anything - in other words, exert your influence - suggests some control over Se as well and that would make EIE more likely than IEI.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kara View Post
    Oh, and being more laid-back. I can get way too dramatic and serious, and I like to remind myself of that.
    Yes, this suggests EIE as well. They are often prone to melodrama.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kara View Post
    What do you look for in friends? In romantic relationships?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kara View Post
    Depht, intelligence, open-mindedness, kindess and a good sense of humor. I like people who have faced something dark before, and got to know themselves and I can feel they thought about the world as well. I feel I can’t trust someone who didnt face some hard things and their own darkness, it almost feels like I can’t connect to anything.
    So, you are attracted to men who despite having seen what a rough place the world can be, are not bitter, and who can hold a decent conversation. If you are attracted to darkness, you seek introversion which further points toward EIE (Ti-DS).

    Quote Originally Posted by Kara View Post
    One of my friends said it really well: „Your problem is that you are lookin for some kind of Holy Grail in everyone and everything, and if you can’t see it, you’ll get impatient and bored.”
    Perfectionism with low logic (the inability to break down your goal into steps) can be quite frustrating.

    You seem like an EIE to me.
    You know that you are dead when someone puts you into a box and you are unable to devise a way to get out of it




  32. #32

    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    TIM
    LSI-Se sx
    Posts
    4,476
    Mentioned
    483 Post(s)
    Tagged
    25 Thread(s)

    Default

    OK, Kara seems like the kind of beta NF version that @Owl also seems to be. I also considered EIE for Owl in the same fashion. I don't know if the EIE-H idea solves the issues with the extra introversion, or if it's all just an IEI thing where the IEI is just moody for whatever reason like in this subtype system of @Nebula from here:

    Quote Originally Posted by Nebula View Post
    There are more than one concept for NiFe based on what would could expect from the interaction between the two functional mindsets.

    Concept 1) Guided primary by inner visions and perceptions of reality. Undifferentiated Ni. (NiX) This overlaps with ILI and IEI.

    Concept 2) Still primarily guided by perception, but gives the impression that their emotions highly influence their decisions. May or may not be outwardly very expressive. Ni-IEI

    Concept 3) Very emotionally expressive with flashes of insight. Prefers to actively manipulate the emotional environment Fe-IEI

    Concept 4) Very emotionally expressive, neurotic, and perceived as more negative. This is very much like the FiNe in MBTI in presentation. The only real difference is the emphasis on perception and not the feelings themselves. There is a building of inner worlds of perception and feeling, but this is MBTI Fi heavy and not Socionics Fi (NiFeFi, with Fi being MBTI Fi, or NiFx). Overlaps with some aspects of ILI. This last concept is the most difficult to articulate.
    I find this good because it points out how the real leading emphasis is still on Ni instead of any Feeling (Fe/Fi), as per the bolded. If this is not true and the leading role is actually from the emotions then it would be EIE rather than IEI (or EII if it's Fi and not Fe but in this case it's quite clear both Kara and Owl are beta NFs and not delta NFs lol).


    EDIT: I posted an analysis in Owl's type thread too now, about the distinction between Fe leading vs Ni leading, here.
    Last edited by Myst; 06-05-2018 at 11:02 AM.

  33. #33

    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    91
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    .
    Last edited by Kara; 09-16-2018 at 10:24 AM.

  34. #34

    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    TIM
    LSI-Se sx
    Posts
    4,476
    Mentioned
    483 Post(s)
    Tagged
    25 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kara View Post
    I think this is not about my influence, not more than I want everyone's influence in my life. To understand things and learn, to seek truth (or if it doesn't really exist, than a more precise picture), you have to speak and listen to others, seeing more perspectives helps to understand more. I find that the most important, and really exciting. I enjoy reading totally different opinions than my own, or outrageous ones.
    This openness to perspectives, I've come to realize it's an IEI feature more than EIE. EIEs do see perspectives I'm sure and the descriptions say they can get confused with too many options, but an EIE calling this the most important thing...? And while EIEs may look really scattered to me when they let themselves go unfiltered lol, I did not realize for a while that that is not the same as actually wanting more perspectives and deliberately staying open to all that different stuff. I personally realized this when I examined Irrationals (such as IEI) more closely. Also, granted, I don't know what an EIE-H would say. But still, this would coincide with the difference between Rationality and Irrationality and it should for EIE-H too eventually.

    I'm discussing this at length because I do find it's a quite valid distinction I've seen play out in practice a lot too. And so hopefully it can be helpful to you too.


    I realized in the meantime, that what I see as dramatic, might be something that isn't to others. I think my thoughts are what can be more dramatic, my expression is not as much. And when my thoughts get dramatic, it's usually when there is a crisis in my life, and I start to see things dark, but it's coming in waves. I think I am a bit zoomed out or restricted to act dramatic. Maybe if you count situations, when I talk about something otherworldly, or I write poems, or I use colorful words and pauses to describe something. But I think my IEI friend can get just as dramatic, if not even more.
    If you are more like you imagine emotions but you do not *live* the emotions much (only here and there), I mean, you may feel them here and there and even a lot of them, but your life is just not determined by you directly living your emotions, then this sounds like Intuition lead instead of Ethics lead. Intuition imagines things about the feeling/emotion, Ethics just feels it and orients by that feeling or emotion. So an Intuition lead imagines things about the emotions/feelings more than be led by living the emotions, and an Ethics lead just lives their lives by the emotions/feelings. An NF would do both Intuition and Ethics but there is still this distinction.

    This was another thing I noticed that seems quite a valid distinction in reality... so a good way to differentiate between IEI and EIE as well. Van der Hoop (Jung student) had a hard to read writing on this difference between the two (Intuition and Feeling, them being the same pretty much as the Socionics versions for this purpose), but it all can be summed up in the above: N imagines emotion, F actually lives it in their life.


    (...) that gives depht and I almost feel how it makes someone sentient. This is why I appreciate people and their monsters.
    I've seen people talk like this before. I figure this is Intuition: the "wholeness" of things.


    Ah, this was easy to misunderstand, my mistake. I am not looking for perfection necessarily, what I meant by "Holy Grail" is that mission I feel sometimes I'm on - finding some truth, or looking beyond the veil, searching for God(s), or secrets. Even if I am not actively seeking, it feels like when I can't find crumbles of it in a conversation, or in someone as we speak, I can get impatient or bored. Nowdays I feel you can't necessarily look beyond the mundane days - you have to look into them, to find patterns, secrets, understanding, maybe even without words.
    Seems like Intuition. Looking behind what is, hidden patterns and all that... and getting impatient/bored perhaps due to Leading function disliking that there is nothing for it. Sorry that part is speculation a bit.



    @Myst, what a great posts, and cool insights. I could see myself as EIE-H, but this IEI with Fi is also very interesting. I wish there would be a test to see what is my leading function, it's very hard to see sometimes how I work (the processes). For example, many times I have hunches or insights and I have a conclusion - even without further analyzing, almost like "I just know" why I feel about something in a way, what is someone feeling, why is someone doing something etc.

    I'll try to provide a few more things, but even if we wouldn't get further, you and @Spermatozoa were of great help, and I really appreciate it.
    Glad if it helps! I think the way to confirm the leading function and its dual-seeking opposite is if you can look through your life situations and see how the right pair of leading/dual-seeking has way more things fall in place than any other pair. That is how it worked out for me - I originally typed as SLE quite a while ago, then I realized Ti/Fe explained way more for me than Se/Ni as the leading/dual-seeking pair, basically giving an explanatory frame around things if that makes sense.

    Your "just knowing" seems like Ni, btw.



    -I am very low energy, and find it hard to get motivated, almost like "nothing makes more sense than anything else, so why bother
    This sounds like depression of some sort. But maybe "depression" would oversimplify the issue. It's more like... I think when one is less synced up with things, including the dual-seeking function too, it can lead to issues like this. (Just my little theory, and it gets too speculative at this point so let's forget about it )


    -I can spend days alone, but I usually talk to people texting, or play games for a few hours, this can be a bit much though. I rarely go out, and I can be very uncomfortable and impatient when I have to travel, the weather is hot/raining, to be among many people, especially when I don't know them. But if I don't talk for a few days with anyone, I start feel depressed, and get into really weird moods and thoughts, and get more and more disconnected from reality. I am usually way more excited about getting home, eat something nice, read a new book, play a new game etc. than to go out.
    Yeah I think at that point you sound like you are getting out of balance. I believe 99.99% of humans need input (cognitively) from others too to keep things aligned ok (that's part of that state with being synced up I mention).

    (The 0.01% can be the hermits who've given up on life in the world pretty much and for some reason they learned to be ok with that, while skipping on a lot of functionality and just life in general ofc.)


    -I really like the dephts we can go with LSIs, that they go into details, and actually want to understand you, it feels intimate. But most of them were more quiet or cold, than my Se dom friends, or lacked the motivation to try exciting or weird things, almost like they wanted me to initiate, which bothered me. Spending a lot of time with ultra mega Se people can make me a little bit exhausted in the long run, even though I am very grateful for their initiation and energy, as I can relax, and just enjoy that they "lead me" in a way. I enjoy being mystical around them, and even when I was younger my ultimate flirt technique was to play it cool and mysterious (cringe, I know). I don't like when someone wants me to charge them emotionally, it makes me feel uncomfortable. I like giving depht, weird thoughts, meaning, and maybe inspire people to free self-expression.
    Hmm yeah I don't think duals are 100% perfect or anything like that. BTW as an LSI, I would say I don't really need others to initiate much in tangible things but if I'm not emotionally motivated enough I can get (at least temporarily) oblivious about previous good ideas so then it can look like I need someone else to initiate, while actually all I'd need is the idea coming up again (I remember it again or someone else brings it up, not as tangible initiative, just mentioning it again as a good idea) and me deciding it's now time to do it. So EIE actually is good there because they have that emotionality that's actually real and almost tangible to me and then I will pay more serious attention to ideas too But the EIE does not need to make physical initiative at all about these things.

    Oh you mention lack of interest in trying weird things, yeah LSIs would be less open to that but I find if I realize the person who I do like otherwise just likes these things, I can make myself more tolerant and make myself pay attention more. It unfortunately has to be a conscious decision, and until that conscious realization and decision happens, I will look too dismissive. It happened once before, that I got to this realization with an IEI friend. With another beta NF I was too easily dismissive though, as there was never a chance for the realization to arrive. I do know quite a few LSIs who are such closed "walls" that I find it hard to imagine how that would even work to get those LSIs to become more tolerant and pay attention more (i.e. try to be interested at least a little).

    So you say SLE can tire you out after a while. I think it doesn't have to exclude duality really. I actually managed to tire out an IEI-Fe guy I used to date and I'm not even SLE, just close-ish. (And I don't just mean tire him out in *that* way...) If for a pretty long time the balance is good, SLE can still be your dual. It seems like overall you get positives from both LSI and SLE but you get fewer negatives with SLE on close distance, that is, it needs fewer compromises than with LSI, if I interpreted your post correctly.

    I would say I definitely find IEIs offer some advantage (of Ni "depth") that EIEs don't offer, but on the whole I relate to EIE like you relate to SLE, fewer negatives than with IEI. Even though workable compromises can be there for IEIs and of course for other types too, duality is a bit more automatic there. Not saying compromise isn't needed in duality... after all it's still two very different people. I just mean on the whole duals end up in a better flowing sync than with the other types.

    Your last two sentences: I'm not sure what you mean by someone wanting you to emotionally charge them. Can you do some description of some more everyday situations so I can see what you mean by this? I mean, if you have any descriptions at all, if you don't, then ofc don't bother with it, I'm just curious. The last sentence is mostly Ni with a little bit of Fe.


    -When someone is more quiet, and starts to follow me around like a puppy, I feel freaked out. I enjoy being alone, or with independent people, who are good at socializing.

    -I think I lack emotional expression in a few ways, that people would need or like. For example my SEE friend always gets upset, when she texts me something that I don't really care about (like she is eating cereal at the moment), and expects me to get enthusiastic or bubbly, instead just saying something ironic or bored, like "great". Sometimes I also try to force myself to send smileys or write exclamation marks, because otherwise I feel to people who don't know me I could be seen bored, angry or annoyed (my SEE friend told me this before). Although I have to mention, that I think I became more quiet and closed, less expressive, because of bad experiences in the past, so this could be because of that.
    Yeah my guess would be your experiences influence this. For example I've seen friendly IEIs that don't have to force themselves like this. I've also seen depressed EIE that became quiet and closed with the ongoing depression.


    -On the other hand, I feel I'm actually pretty emotional, in a way that my mind is restless, and things can hit me a bit harder than I usually see it on my friends. I can get very sad, feel sorry for someone, get nervous, and there are those random moments, when I lose common sense, and start to panic. This doesn't last too long though, and I get back to my normal mood.
    Yeah I tried to address this emotionality in the previous post and in the post to Owl too.


    -Even though I am low energy, and unmotivated, and don't care about career or image, my mind can feel restless, even when I'm not thinking, almost like it's running in the background, trying to make sense of that mess my mind and the outside.
    Not entirely type related though Ni cognition (not necessarily even Ego Ni tho') can be responsible for a lot of this.


    -One of my worst traits is that I can get pretty impatient

    -Even though I have a moral sense of right and wrong, and I'll speak out, if I think something is not okay, I try to look at the situation, and I rarely condemn people. Sometimes I have a weird feeling that I could even go into hell, and meet an interesting interlocutor who acts/used to act like a monster, as I would care more about the interesting thoughts

    -I feel I am very open-minded, and can emphatize with people in many different positions. I appreciate kindness in myself and other people greatly
    Seems pretty N for the last 2 : p IEI would typically talk about this more than EIE overall but idk if this is decisive for type on its own.

    Stuff I mentioned above is more decisive for it.


    Edit: I read some of @Owl 's posts and I see the similarities too. I also wanted to add more about how I am with decision making.

    - I have a hard time making up my mind, therefore I leave many things open, and I often try to calm myself with the fact that "still many options are open, many things are undecided, and therefore I have chances left". Knowing things for certain can be great comfort, but I think I won't go neurotic, if something is left opened for a while. I know I will always find something that will make me torn apart, or be unsure of, so it doesn't really matter in the end.

    Edit 2: Mos EJs I've known were restless, active and have a great amount of energy. One I used to see was upset when all I wanted to do was sit or lie somewhere, and just talk. Wanted to go outside, do things, take a walk, after a few hours get into another bar, etc. I can really enjoy very long and deep conversations, while just staying in one place.

    I was outside today in a crowd for 2 hours, and almost died from people fcking getting close to me, touching, yelling, etc. I won't ever leave my house again.
    The bolded sounds Irrationality, you don't actually find it matters that much to be able to close things up even if you may want and need closure sometimes in some situations (like everyone would at times). This is what shows preference, IMO, beyond just situational approaches that are not overarching preferences. Again, what you said at the start of your post, with how this openness is the most important to you... this lines up with that obviously.

    As for the Ej bit: I've known EIE-Ni to be pretty ambiverted but yes, they (the ones I've seen that I am 100% sure are EIE-Ni) would still have the restlessness like that half of the time. (Spaced-out look for the other half of the time, but switching between being active and this mode pretty fast and decently often.)


    If it helps, I think I'm 4w5. I've changed a lot throughout the years, and that my intense emotions or my lack of motivation can both come from psychological issues.
    Yes, both can be psychological issues if it goes beyond what's normal for you.

    4 can make sense. Also, 1 for Gut triad, maybe. : p

    So all in all, I'd lean towards IEI for you at this point, though that EIE-H description seems like a surprisingly good match too for you.
    Last edited by Myst; 06-07-2018 at 04:50 PM.

  35. #35

    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    91
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    .
    Last edited by Kara; 09-16-2018 at 10:24 AM.

  36. #36

    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    TIM
    LSI-Se sx
    Posts
    4,476
    Mentioned
    483 Post(s)
    Tagged
    25 Thread(s)

    Default

    @Kara going to respond in detail later today

  37. #37

    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    91
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    .
    Last edited by Kara; 09-16-2018 at 10:24 AM.

  38. #38
    Xaiviay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    TIM
    SEI-Fe1 9w8 sx-first
    Posts
    436
    Mentioned
    65 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    One thing that might be worth considering is that if you don't get along well with EIIs because you just don't understand what the other is talking about, that suggests IEI more likely than EIE. EIIs and IEIs are quasi-identicals, and misunderstandings are the major theme there http://www.socionics.com/rel/qid.htm Otherwise yes, you do seem like an IEI type, to me at least. The major world view of IEIs is that reality is continually changing, and circumstances/relationships/things won't stay constant for long...They seem to sense the coming changes long before they happen...So this is a cautious type, hesitant to pin themselves to anything they don't see as 100% solid. That's why they like Se assertiveness from other people, which proves to them that their partner's intentions are firm enough to stand the test of time. You seem to want some certainty from the outside world, which is characteristic of IEI.

    IEIs also are very perceptive of the underlying motivations of people, in my experience. They also can judge other's feelings easily. You sound like you have this ability.

    Just some thoughts. Take it for what it's worth

  39. #39

    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    TIM
    LSI-Se sx
    Posts
    4,476
    Mentioned
    483 Post(s)
    Tagged
    25 Thread(s)

    Default

    OK so I thought about some things, it was good for myself too to consider some stuff, you brought up good points too.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kara View Post
    I think I just came to the realization, that craving for one "truth" or option will actually always get me further (ironic, isn't it, that in the meantime I'm here) from an explanation of what the hell we are all doing here. But there are glimpses of truths in everything, even in the worst of abominations, I believe. And if there is no absolute, there is no pressure - you can find meaning in the end in beautiful moments. You can find meaning without words. Of course, having a well set value system can also be correct - it gives you roots and foundation. So each choice has its benefits and disadvantage. The only crucial thing in both mindsets is to have an open mind - we are wrong all the time, and have the best ideas all the time. But again, this is me.
    I do think there should be an Absolute Truth (idealized) that we can't reach though, just get closer to it. It's a goal of objectivity for me at least, but this does include that everything should be discovered without closing eyes / going into denial about stuff.


    I can detach easily from my emotions, I learnt how to, but I'm not sure if this is what you thought of. I found that many of my emotions come from wounds from the past - I want to take them as signals, but not being a slave to them. I usually see where an emotion is coming from, and if it has the promise of something new, that I would understand this way, I try to immerse myself in it. I usually listen to my hunches too, but I can usually tell what is actually something important that is giving me insight, and what is a bad reflex from the past. I had very strong emotions as a child, and my detachment can be a from of accodomation to the world, but maybe my brainset just changed. I kind of miss these intense feelings somehow, but what I mostly appreciated about them were the insights and some form of connection with the unknown - and I still have these, fortunately, only in different ways.
    Not sure how much Ethics lead can detach from their feelings, but regardless of that, what I meant was whether you are going by your emotions directly or just viewing them as any other thing or variable that can be perceived, looked at, imagined, have hunches about. That is, I find Fe bases don't talk much as about emotions in a perceptive-reflective-analytical manner as much as just make decisions and act based on them. They do of course talk about what they feel, but it's less about how they view or imagine what they feel, it's not just an image of a feeling, but more the feelings/emotions/ethical judgments themselves. If it's any clearer this way...?

    BTW you sound like you did a lot of self-analysis for emotion management and to understand them better. I actually agree btw based on such, that it seems good to approach feelings that way, to see if it's new information or not. Not that I can always easily say as to what's just a "bad reflex from the past".

    I know an IEI (selftyped as that) forum member who said the same btw about having had more intense emotions as a child then not seeing a point to any longer...


    Sometimes I think about how it's quite sad that these rough edges not only polish us, but make us rough. I just want to stay brave, and go towards what I think is a hole in the veil that's covering our eyes.

    "We're losing the Moon"

    Sometimes it scares me where I will end up with this mindset, and what am I going to touch that will possess me. But I'm not a saint, and never will be.
    With this I'm thinking back to the first part of your (and my) post. It does require a certain mindset IMO to keep looking. (BTW this is all very reflective to me, good grounds for a bit more philosophizing lol)


    I'm not quite sure I understand this, could you explain it a little more?
    OK, let me know if the above helped. I will also explain a bit more below with some more concrete examples (where I'll talk about advantages/disadvantages of IEIs vs EIEs). If that's not making it clear enough, feel free to ask about it (if you got any specific questions).


    I've always envied the ability of seeing yourself as a little mechanical watch, ticking and how all those parts come together. Not like a huge, blurry picture of a thousand fragments, pieces of mirrors, saying "hey, we are all you".
    I didn't have that much self-awareness when younger lol, but yeah it kind of got like this since then. Once I started focusing on this topic, I did eventually get to see my internal stuff like that lol. I have some pretty neat understanding of it though who knows if it would make sense to anyone else. =)) And ofc there is still always more to understand of myself.


    That's a good point (that no match is perfect). I think what caused me problems while befriending LSIs was some sort of awkwardness sometimes in social situations. I'm fine with it, and have my own shortcoming as well, but for some reason it made me feel less attracted. But I really do like other qualities of theirs (logic, going into dephts and great details, paying full attention to something, that they can seem a bit cold or secretive etc.)
    NFs like that (the bolded). BTW, SLE-Ti supposedly has its own version of that coldness and privateness.

    How did you perceive the awkwardness, what is it like? Just the LSIs being too quiet and seeming like they ignore other people too easily? That's something I've been told before lol and I've seen other LSIs described that way too.


    Can you tell me what are the things that IEIs don't have or bother you, when you compare them to EIEs?
    I thought about this a bit to be able to sum it up well, and I think this will also be some good examples about that distinction about that Ethics leads focus on the feelings and resulting ethical judgments themselves while Intuitive leads just perceive them all at first among other variables - in practice this plays out in a distinctly different way with IEI vs EIE for me.

    For example, I might have a problem or be confused about something regarding feelings (without even knowing it ), and I find EIE just tells me "oh it's X emotion", or encourages me for an action that needs positive emotion, simply by them being so positive and emotional about it (actions related to relationships... more complex relations than just social interaction though), while IEI says other suggestions, analyse it a bit, or even at length if they feel like it, give me whatever deeper advice or images on what they think about the problem. I like to hear what IEIs say about these deep things and other things lol but EIE gets me out of my head with this. I just don't have to analyse so much then. EIEs also have me involved with emotions (of theirs mainly, lol) even if I'm just hearing them out from a little "distance", it's still easy for me to activate myself, e.g. for ideas brought up on what to do or what problem needs sorting, I'll just really quickly decide on what to do and sort it out. I have to get selective there though with EIEs lol, they easily respond emotionally to many things. Another aspect of this is I find the way they talk is just about things in the world (extraversion I guess) and it's all emotionally loaded details from my pov (probably not the same details from their pov ), and I just automatically put it together in my head, making sense of it all, easy to organize it all, which can be helpful to the EIE, yet I'm also not being too deep in my head because the emotional side is also active in the background. I don't get directly emotional for long at a time, it's all in the background, this is hard to explain though. So I get given a job for my Ti and enjoy the Fe at the same time. So that just seems like the optimal mode of functioning for me. Also they can make ideas for goals emotionally charged in a way that it can stay like that for a long time for me until I reached that goal. It's sort of an "emotional vision", because it's got an emotional charge to it as the motivation even if I don't pay attention to that. E.g. "achieve this goal because it will just be so good because (x reason)". That's a simplification from my pov, for the EIE it's more complex emotional stuff than that.

    So IEIs don't have any of the above. That doesn't bother me though, I don't expect everyone to be an EIE lol. And I can listen forever to Ni stuff too/have a pretty high tolerance for such input, it's just that Fe ends up more directly and more quickly useful to me in real life.

    As for things that are issues somewhat. First the things that are not true issues, but somewhat disadvantages compared to EIE: IEIs come off vague as contrasted to the concreteness of EIEs, again though this isn't a true issue for me, just sometimes it causes temporary confusion so I take too long to resolve that and get in my head too much in the process. But sometimes I end up in nice places with it so it's actually good then. I get to see some things more conceptually refined, I see more meaning in some things, and that's inspiring and positive etc. Related to this, I find if there's too much of "just talk" about emotions in an imaginative way this actually is very beautiful and inspiring to me but - compared to EIE - hard for me to activate myself on it long term and so I may end up nowhere with it, though if I do manage to make myself go and create a decision based on the inspiration - AND then I do not allow myself to forget but actually put it into my actual concrete plans - it does get useful in real life even if the effect comes more slowly than with EIEs.

    Then there are some communication issues arising from Ni vs Ti focus and that's one area where I get out of sync with IEIs. Just both the IEI and me getting stuck in really introverted views that run parallel to each other, with each one being stubborn against the other one's input (slow to update Ni HA vs Ti HA, too), and hard to move on from there, I get dismissive from a logical pov about new perspectives/ideas and IEI gets dismissive about accepting my perceptions or reasonings, so arguments can result that actually easily go on for a while once started. On the whole I don't mind these arguments, but if not careful (when not yet aware of this dynamics), it can kill the mood in the relations for a while (for the IEIs at least - and IEI won't restore emotional flow like EIE will). I think some IEIs (not all of them?) also feel too criticized on their Ti HA even when I definitely am being careful about not sounding critical.

    Also out of sync with Se/Fe and Rationality/Irrationality in some things. I find if I get upset about something (not necessarily upset about the IEI), they don't easily fix that emotionally. They can instead get too detached or they just don't say much. Then there can be an issue with them wanting more spontaneity instead of "obligations" or planned "prods" from me, e.g. about what things to do. Or just my bit of planning (I don't overplan!) in general can get confining to them. Also because, as I'm told by one IEI, they will keep thinking with their Ni lead that if I made some request, unless I tell them that I changed it, it just stays that way and it can keep bothering them! - they just make predictions of things in this manner, repeating things will be expected again unless external change is obvious. And, overall, initially there may be a lot of activity, but then they drop their Fe input too easily while I drop the Se input too easily too after a while, meaning we just both go kind of passively introverted before getting some burst of energy again. The active part can last a while though if the IEI is extraverted enough with enough motivation for the situation and for things to do overall.

    I think all this can be solved by compromises if there is enough awareness of the issues. And for the last part about there being too much introversion, that's solved too if there are enough ideas/things to do to engage with, so this one is easy enough to solve without having to have that deep awareness of sync issues etc. Though I guess some awareness still helps even then. I know it helps me.


    I think I read about this on the forum, where people were mentioning how LSIs like emotionality from EIEs, and it charges them. I also saw this around LSIs and maybe even LIIs, how they became suddenly very happy and responsive when I showed warm emotions, friendliness, talking way more emotionally or dramatic, like it caught their attention and made them feel almost... happy? But I feel awkward because of this, that they need this to react this way. I think with the SLE I know it's a bit different - he doesn't need these bits of emotions to be energetic and responsive, and it's nice, because whenever I'm not jumping around (it's quite rare), or maybe even when I'm down, they can make me laugh and more energetic.
    OK that would be the thing about having the emotionality from the EIE running in the background cognitively. I would not call it "very happy" in most cases though, that sounds like overkill for just simple positive expressions lol (though you can debate it's not simple expressions when it comes from an EIE lol). Maybe just the contrast seems great compared to default state? I would be "very happy" if it is indeed something to be very happy about. I work the same as most people emotionally regarding this, I understand what's a thing that truly is very good and special to be very happy about and what's just simply a positive mood in the moment. But again, I guess that contrast thing must make it look a big thing... I noticed this from beta NFs (IEI and EIE alike actually) that they thought I was more affected by emotional stuff than I actually was. In a sense it might really be a big thing with that contrast but at the same time I am aware that it's just a reaction in the moment. So I don't see the need to put much stock into it like they would. All in all, sure, emotional expressions can catch my attention like that but it always being a NEED is a strong word lol. It also lasts me a while if I had some emotional input in a situation.

    If you are IEI then maybe it also bothers you that the LxI after the initial moments of interaction seemingly starts waiting for Fe input and it seemingly passivates them? That's happened to me before in some circumstances with IEIs. But again, it has a solution like described above (be aware, decide consciously on some things to do, on initiation for them, just be in a place where there are things to do, or have a good topic to talk about, etc).

    What makes you feel awkward, is it like some expectation you feel? I heard/noticed IEIs will try to adjust with their emotional expressions / mood management to the other person's mood first and foremost and don't initiate the mood themselves. That's good for SLE because they get "stuck" in their emotions, while LSI doesn't really pull up emotions for long so there is not much for the IEI to react to. Do you relate to having this issue with LSIs? This would be one of the main decisive factors for type.

    I think it was slightly awkward to me too sometimes with IEIs when I didn't know what else to say even though I thought the IEI was very interesting (not necessarily romantically... this happened more than once both with guys and with girls). Though that would be more like initial difficulties. Relaxing about it would help lol. Regardless of all that, I would get along pretty well with IEIs (both guy and girl) when we had strong mutual interests to do together.

    So again, as for "need this to react this way", um, I would not say I NEED the emotional stuff all the time, really, I'm fine with other activities or just talking too if it's a good topic (though I personally prefer doing activities, as talking drains me after a while).

    As for being energetic and responsive, I'm all that easily without Fe too if there is some activity to engage with that I'm interested in. With an IEI (or IxI-Ni but I think IEI) once we kept engaging in competitive activities all the time lol, and it was real fun. That IEI was really low in emotional expression yet it was thorough fun to do this. I do think of LSI-Ti in the way you describe though, I hardly ever see my LSI-Ti friend as energetic lol... he's really controlled instead. But he will also readily engage in competition lol and he's able to do activities just fine, just they are pretty planned out (still not overkill planned out tho', from my pov) and repetitive a bit.

    I do think that your observation about SLE vs LSI is good though, I'm not as spontaneous and especially not for long to find activities all the time let alone make the other person laugh all the time. If I get lucky I can do that but it's short attempts lol, that's me though, some other LSIs probably are better at keeping up humorous notes. Probably dependent on how social they are etc too. As for activities though, I really am good with that if there are enough ideas on what to do. I have an adventurous streak even. I could exhaust my IEI-Fe ex with always wanting to go somewhere like I said lol.

    So clearly a lot of this is just beta NF vs beta ST stuff, but what I said about manipulation of emotionality and manner of relating to the beta ST's emotions or lack of them is a pretty deciding factor for IEI vs EIE.

    In any case I don't think LSI-Ti is your dual.


    Also... for even more refined analysis lol, you earlier said
    I am very grateful for their initiation and energy, as I can relax, and just enjoy that they "lead me" in a way. I enjoy being mystical around them, and even when I was younger my ultimate flirt technique was to play it cool and mysterious (cringe, I know). I don't like when someone wants me to charge them emotionally, it makes me feel uncomfortable. I like giving depht, weird thoughts, meaning, and maybe inspire people to free self-expression.
    I do enjoy "leading" in ST things for EIE-Ni too if they let me (I think that happens on a closer distance?). Like even just with navigating around I like to lead the way. And (I've been told so) I put EIEs in the Se present. IDK if I do that to IEIs though. And I like the mysticalness, EIEs have it too, but somehow it's different from them than from IEIs. It's like... IEIs keep being mystical and it's a bit distant to me - also maybe due to their feelings being more submerged - though also fascinating and good in many ways, while EIEs just show a mood/emotion and then it can pass to me along with the Ni imagination they have attached to it and then I can pick up on that too. Does this make sense?

    The last part about free self-expression, I think that probably is tailored to SLEs, depending on what you mean by it, I guess. I can only do such a thing very indirectly (either via logical presentation of my thoughts or via sensory impact e.g. my dressing). I can't and won't strive to do it directly emotionally. Did you mean it more in the emotional sense?

    Overall I also get the sense that you are a bit on the isolated-asocial side, and so you especially seek sociable people? For which SLE is of course better than LSI on the whole , even if this is not entirely type related. Like I mentioned, I've known pretty positive and actually very sociable IEIs who have been involved in life and with people a lot.


    I find my EJ friends do this very fast, they make up their mind, and it's usually me who then introduces another perspective, that makes them doubtful. This even happens when I have an argument, and I start to play the devil's advocate - not because I'm trolling, but because I start to doubt myself. I like having closed ends after I'm sure it's the right way, of course to grief many things and maybe start something new, you have to let things go, and after that healing can happen. But I can change my mind randomly about things, and open up things that were closed. But this seems like just a very human thing to me in the end.
    You sound very Intuitive-Irrational compared to those Ej friends.

    Hm how do you relate closure to grieving and healing?

    I don't like to "change my mind randomly about things, and open up things that were closed". But I guess if someone brings up a good point, that's fine to consider. I relate in how I will evaluate for pretty long really in some matters. I find EIEs actually make decisions too fast compared to me in some things lol.


    Edit: I also appreciate your detailed post and all of your time, again.
    Np


    PS:
    Edit 2: What I meant me jumping around, I referred.to.ot that it's qiute rare from me to ger overhyped from energy, and I'm often melancholic or a bit restrained. SLEs can help me with feeling more joyful.
    Yeah, that's the interesting part (and you are like Owl again with this), because IEI-SLE duality descriptions say that IEI gives positivity to the SLE. Positive moods, lifting their spirits, trust in a positive future. But I think if you otherwise relate to the IEI side of things as I outlined, this is some extra factor beyond type...? Let me know, I'm curious how you relate to the decisive factors for typing (F vs N leading, and that emotionality adjustment, etc..).

  40. #40

    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    TIM
    LSI-Se sx
    Posts
    4,476
    Mentioned
    483 Post(s)
    Tagged
    25 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Xaiviay View Post
    One thing that might be worth considering is that if you don't get along well with EIIs because you just don't understand what the other is talking about, that suggests IEI more likely than EIE. EIIs and IEIs are quasi-identicals, and misunderstandings are the major theme there http://www.socionics.com/rel/qid.htm Otherwise yes, you do seem like an IEI type, to me at least. The major world view of IEIs is that reality is continually changing, and circumstances/relationships/things won't stay constant for long...They seem to sense the coming changes long before they happen...So this is a cautious type, hesitant to pin themselves to anything they don't see as 100% solid. That's why they like Se assertiveness from other people, which proves to them that their partner's intentions are firm enough to stand the test of time. You seem to want some certainty from the outside world, which is characteristic of IEI.

    IEIs also are very perceptive of the underlying motivations of people, in my experience. They also can judge other's feelings easily. You sound like you have this ability.

    Just some thoughts. Take it for what it's worth
    A lot of this is just beta NF really. EIEs are also way more cautious in some things where I am not. And where IEI would be more happy-go-lucky too, actually. I've had my EIE-Ni friend have a lot of misunderstandings with an EII-Ne. Though yes I agree OP seems to lean towards IEI more so far.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •