Working with supervisees

[Delilah]

I feel like the ITR between me and someone at work is supervision. I notice that i step on this person's toes unintentionally and have to be on my guard. Because they are on a higher position than me the supervision doesn't work well at all in the workplace. Like if our positions were reversed it might have worked a little better.

Anyone agrees? Or has first hand experience with this they'd like to share? Would supervision work better if the supervisor was in a higher position work-wise? How would it turn out if both supervisee and supervisor were in the same position? And how do I help not stepping on their toes?

[The Reality Denialist]

Pretty much so.

It is quite tricky when there was both EII and LSI. Supervision seems very ineffective way to deal with problems [supervisor is mostly overreacting] while supervisee can demonstratively solve the problems. Works better when it aligns with so called roles.

[Delilah]

Pretty much so.

It is quite tricky when there was both EII and LSI. Supervision seems very ineffective way to deal with problems [mostly overreacting] while supervisee can demonstratively solve the problems. Works better when it aligns with so called roles.

Thanks. What about the rest of my questions, such as, how to avoid stepping on their toes?

[Hope]

Would supervision work better if the supervisor was in a higher position work-wise?
It would be better for the supervisor (s/he would be free to do everything as s/he wishes), probably worst for supervisee.

How would it turn out if both supervisee and supervisor were in the same position?
Supervisee would always feel supervised. It doesnt matter which position they have I think, since its related to sociotype.


And how do I help not stepping on their toes?
Keep your opinions to yourself. Be polite when addressing subjects. Keep them at distance.
That's how it works for me with supervisee and how my supervisors make it work for me.
You can't share your thoughts/opinions the same way you would do with other ppl because its "painful" for the supervisee. Then, you as supervisor will think that supervisee is often wrong or less capable. The thing is that supervisee solve stuff in a different way and for you its nonsense since it goes totally against your strongest function.
I have learned that it doesnt matter if you dont say much or address your concerns verbally. Supervisee will learn from supervisor with the time. Supervisee automatically notices (consciously or subconsciously) the differences when looking or being with supervisor without need for you to addressing it directly. Supervisee start to learn from supervisor and with time improves a little bit in the area of weakness. Supervisor can make supervisee feel more confident in the area of weakness when working/being together, since supervisor can take care of those things that supervisee can't.

[Rebelondeck]

Many having my supervisor-type have worked for me and I've never been aware of a problem. In supervisor relationships, it's only the supervisor that might have an issue - the perception of a schism is usually one-way only. Note that in work scenarios, many of every type think they could do a better job than their boss; it's par for the course.......

a.k.a. I/O

[The Reality Denialist]

[I] yourself. Be polite when addressing subjects. Keep them at distance.
That's how it works for mehttps://youtu.be/oMQ2VpdxqBIrvisee and how my supervisors make it work for me.
You can't share your thoughts/opinions the same way you would do with other ppl because its "painful" for the supervisee. Then, you as supervisor will think that supervisee is often wrong or less capable. The thing is that supervisee solve stuff in a different way and for you its nonsense since it goes totally against your strongest function.

Let's say supervisor melts down emotionally in front of computer screen you might take off 5 minutes of your time to write a manual (while shaking your head) or put some forward action. It won't make relational difference but will make them respect but also causes them think that you don't put potentiality in use which in turn increases supervision in more positive context. Very similar thing you do with dual but this time it is seen as the most essential part of you which you don't agree. Like I could do something that is financially productive but then I make statements like money means nothing to me which in turn makes them perplexed.

[Hope]

Let's say supervisor melts down emotionally in front of computer screen you might take off 5 minutes of your time to write a manual (while shaking your head) or put some forward action. It won't make relational difference but will make them respect but also causes them think that you don't put potentiality in use which in turn increases supervision in more positive context. Very similar thing you do with dual but this time it is seen as the most essential part of you which you don't agree. Like I could do something that is financially productive but then I make statements like money means nothing to me which in turn makes them perplexed.

EII supervises you in ethics and in the use of ethics with intuition, not in logic or whatever other topic. Then I never said supervisor or supervisee should limit their actions, I said supervisor should be polite and limit exchange of information along with modifiying distance to "avoid stepping on their toes" as op said.


Btw, here are descriptions and advice about supervision delilah, maybe you would find something useful.

[Delilah]

Many having my supervisor-type have worked for me and I've never been aware of a problem. In supervisor relationships, it's only the supervisor that might have an issue - the perception of a schism is usually one-way only. Note that in work scenarios, many of every type think they could do a better job than their boss; it's par for the course.......

a.k.a. I/O

So if i got this right, the supervisor is aware of an issue and the supervisee is not? Interesting.

This person is not my boss though, like i don't report to them on anything, it's just that we work a lot together (or rather, we have to make do with each other) and they have a slightly higher status work-wise.

[Bertrand]

I dunno I've worked on both sides and I feel like everyone can feel an asymmetric relation, it just takes on a slightly different character depending where you fall and based on the types in question... in the end when I supervise people, some people come off as trying to please or make contact with me for reasons I don't understand, whereas when I'm supervised I feel like I'm letting this other person down but at the same time their standards are unfair. Perhaps it goes to the individual types in question, in other words, the peculiarity of the feeling may go back to my own psychological priorities and modes of processing--hence someone could experience supervision very differently and it nevertheless also be supervision, because they experience it across Ti or whatever the case may be

[Rebelondeck]

.......the supervisor is aware of an issue and the supervisee is not?.............

Supervisors usually feel they're the ones in the superior position and the other could benefit from some guidance; how they handle or express these feelings may cause friction because the supervisee won't see any imbalance whatsoever unless it's rubbed in their face. I've never seen someone search for a supervisor - a benefactor, yes.....

a.k.a. I/O

[Bertrand]

how they handle or express these feelings may cause friction because the supervisee won't see any imbalance whatsoever unless it's rubbed in their face.

this seems more like a repressed Fe thing

[Rebelondeck]

this seems more like a repressed Fe thing

It's more of an all types thing. Most confident people feel they can do without a supervisor. The skill is being a supervisor without seeming like one........

a.k.a. I/O

[Bertrand]

nah I can tell you from experience I sense supervision as something different and its not a totally different ITR, Im saying the phenomenology differs, and that you're imposing your own Ti/Fe model in using that language

In other branches of science, it is legitimate to apply a hypothesis to an impersonal subject. Psychology, however, inescapably confronts you with the living relations between two individuals, neither of whom can be divested of his subjective personality, nor, indeed, depersonal-ized in any other way.

i think this is why psychological models (of the psycho analytic variety) made by LII are fundamentally limited, they can't not do this to some extent, and its also the source of their social ineptitude. there's this presumption they speak from a kind of baseline, but such a thing is impossible no matter how hard they try. its why I think mainly Ti valuers comprehend socionics because the descriptions actually speak some sort of common language (the degree to which they cleave to Ti), whereas for other types there is required a kind of internal shift to bring it into focus. LII would outright deny that such a thing is necessary or perhaps even possible, but it becomes almost a point of pride for them, because to them they stand for the most even position itself, to attack that is like an attack on their being. but its not meant to be, although they aspire to be some kind of computer most others want to see more out of them so they don't feel like they're taking something away in pointing this out, rather offering a kind of gift

[FDG]

Note that in work scenarios, many of every type think they could do a better job than their boss; it's par for the course.......

Agreed, and usually not especially related to socionics.

[niffer]

I've only felt tension when my supervisee is my supervisor, not the other way around (nor when being supervised by an ESI at work).

[Hope]

Supervision is not imaginary and it certainly has to do with real possibility of guidance and personal benefit for the supervisee...

"Your supervisor is your conscience" - this is what characterizes this relationship. Supervisee listens the voice of the supervisor, since he or she can solve your unsolvable problems, alleviate or sharpen the issues that concern you.

Supervisor is the type that can outwardly solve problems that are internal to the supervisee. But these are conflicting relations, because supervisor will openly discuss themes that are painful and private for the supervisee, and demand that in which the supervisee is weak. Supervisor will be picky in areas where supervisee needs to be left alone.

According some authors, supervisee knows that supervisor can help, guide and alleviate his problems. So its not just some imaginary perception from supervisor towards supervisee. For sure, the way in which supervisor can help supervisee is not a comfortable way, since its pointing out at the PoLR. Obviously, there will be always those who deny having weaknesses and whose possess a grandiose or flawless self image. But that most frequently than not can be considered a sign of immaturity or unhealtiness, ime.

As I said above and as most authors suggest, listen to your supervisor is helpful if you want to fix situations in your life, then, space is always required and supervisor does better in not speaking out stuff freely at supervisee. So, your perception of being stepping in his/her toes is not wrong Delilah, also its not my impression of denial and hurt from LIE when I talk about his unsolvable problems (only at his request).

Then, ofc supervisee can't go through life unnoticing supervision (unless s/he lives in some kind of alternate reality or there are mistypes), since supervision is frequently uncomfortable.

These are the type of relations where a person is most vulnerable and unable to defend themselves. Supervisor, drawing from his first element, frequently hits the third element of the supervisee. Supervisor speaks in the most offensive to the supervisee words, but himself also doesn't feel well in these relations. Supervisee is persistently and unconsciously annoying and frustrating his supervisor. Although they both feel stressed, since this is an asymmetric relationship, the supervisee suffers more.

[Number 9 large]

SLE ESI supervision works in that you only supervise him through your lead function which is his polr. Do you mean by stepping on his toes calling him out for unethical behaviour?

[Delilah]

SLE ESI supervision works in that you only supervise him through your lead function which is his polr. Do you mean by stepping on his toes calling him out for unethical behaviour?

In the course of a few months, I had made several interpersonal comments: like "oh, i think x (not referring to another employee, but to a third party) doesn't like me" to which they reacted by completely shutting me down. And i made a couple of comments about the actions of a fellow employee and they completely blew up over it following the second comment. I think they took it as me singling people out or something. Because of this, I share hardly any interpersonal opinions with them anymore.

[FDG]

Supervision is not imaginary and it certainly has to do with real possibility of guidance and personal benefit for the supervisee...



According some authors, supervisee knows that supervisor can help, guide and alleviate his problems. So its not just some imaginary perception from supervisor towards supervisee. For sure, the way in which supervisor can help supervisee is not a comfortable way, since its pointing out at the PoLR. Obviously, there will be always those who deny having weaknesses and whose possess a grandiose or flawless self image. But that most frequently than not can be considered a sign of immaturity or unhealtiness, ime.

As I said above and as most authors suggest, listen to your supervisor is helpful if you want to fix situations in your life, then, space is always required and supervisor does better in not speaking out stuff freely at supervisee. So, your perception of being stepping in his/her toes is not wrong Delilah, also its not my impression of denial and hurt from LIE when I talk about his unsolvable problems (only at his request).

Then, ofc supervisee can't go through life unnoticing supervision (unless s/he lives in some kind of alternate reality or there are mistypes), since supervision is frequently uncomfortable.

Just curious, in which setting does this take place? Work or personal relationships?

[Number 9 large]

In the course of a few months, I had made several interpersonal comments: like "oh, i think x (not referring to another employee, but to a third party) doesn't like me" to which they reacted by completely shutting me down. And i made a couple of comments about the actions of a fellow employee and they completely blew up over it following the second comment. I think they took it as me singling people out or something. Because of this, I share hardly any interpersonal opinions with them anymore.

Honestly doesnt sound like polr being hit. By the actions of a colleague do u mean it in ethical way or productive way?

[Delilah]

Honestly doesnt sound like polr being hit. By the actions of a colleague do u mean it in ethical way or productive way?

It was ethical, yeah.

[Hope]

Just curious, in which setting does this take place? Work or personal relationships?

both