Example of supervision relation gone horribly wrong
I listened to this the other night and figured it must be supervision. Mel Gibson (LSE) and his ex-girlfriend (ILI). Caution: observing rant may be dreadful
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJGPLjm-fjo&t=233s
What do you think?
EDIT: Nope, I was wrong. Not supervision. The ex-girlfriend is EII. My mistake, but glad to still be learning.
Last edited by gonermysticism; 01-07-2019 at 06:28 PM.
Mel Gibson - N type
Oksana Grigorieva - mb ILI
I freakin love mel, despite the fact that he's got serious issues. I don't think he needs medication, I think people just use that as an excuse to dismiss him. mel reflects a lot of ugliness back on society and they want to medicate it away rather than deal with it. mel is by all accounts something of a troubled genius and I hate the way society treats those people
Perhaps contrary LSE-LSI, not really seeing signs of supervision. If anything this convo is more pertinent to their enneagram types: Mel is a sx-6w7 and the girl looks to be a 9. So he's in the emotionally reactive triad getting exasperated that she's not responding to him the way he wishes her to respond and not meeting his needs (can hear him say "I need, I need" in the conversation), which is an issue that comes up for reactive types when they attempt to date 9s: "Wanting others to see the realness of the problem, they expect others to react emotionally. Such a reaction would confirm that others agree that indeed this is a big deal. If others don't respond in the way the Reactive approach types want, they may become even more frustrated and emotional." - http://www.fitzel.ca/enneagram/harmonics.html
this is interesting I never thought of viewing the world this way, but I can see how you could interpret all human interaction as basically an attempt at emotional manipulation in order to get what you want. which makes a lot of sense because growing up my mom often accused everyone of emotional manipulation and I never really understood that. but it makes sense that its this sort of layer on reality you can focus in on and assume everyone else is operating on too, thus you project intent into whatever happens to have an emotional impact. perhaps its why people get so much out of enneagram because its sort of in keeping with that viewOriginally Posted by silke
Mel XLI?...hurt to the core...would only come out in this almost unseen way if most deserved and he’s been taken over the edge...he trusts the person no more... An emotionally vulnerable time with him responding through unrelentless aggressive attacking of the other.
She likely rightfully earned everything she received whereas he did not - that’s my take.
Listened to this recording years ago but don’t have time this morning to listen again.
lmao he's batshit insane and his own worst enemy- other people might respond to his lunacy by attempting to correct it and thus CC him in some way, but he is bringing it on himself.
idk alot of men like him have this idea that in order to be happy, they have to control how other people behave or respond- but that comes from controlling yourself. If you want others to respond differently to you, you have to become different. He doesn't get this at all, and throws a temper tantrum- blaming other people too much instead of looking at himself. As much as you try to deconstruct this or make excuses for him that's what ends up happening.
Yet to be fair, he puts more of the correct effort in other things that I just don't - so I really like the idea of him being my conflictor and that makes the most sense to me. I can kinda respect his Te from a safe distance.
Last edited by Hot Scalding Gayser; 04-13-2018 at 09:23 AM.
Also wow I looked at that picture and the girl almost looks IEI not ILI. She is just kinda dreamily and arrogantly staring into space while he's getting seriously pissed off and republican str8 man like. They are both huge assholes in very different ways.
No wonder they didn't get along. But opposites usually attract like that, and then fall apart very badly.
I'm not trying to argue that she's actually an IEI or anything, its just interesting to me.
She is manipulating by acting overly innocent (like an unhealthy Starfall or Amber), and he's reacting too strongly to it. I can see why some str8 men are taking mel's side. Yeah it is annoying when girls do that.
I laughed in part 4 when she said 'I didn't do anything!' soooo faux-innocently like lol.
I have found that when most relations come fully off the rails, type characteristics become very hard to detect because what observers usually witness is a battle of two sets of baggage. A bigoted perception followed up with an insensitive comment precipitates a equally bigoted response, and ITR has nothing to do with it. And, I've also noted that many Ep- and Ij-types seem to rage in their dual-like personas.......
a.k.a. I/O
That’s because it is the seldom-seen 1D and 2D child functions which are doing the raging, which are also associated with the Dual’s adult functions. Hence a person can appear to be their dual when using them, but they use them badly.I have found that when most relations come fully off the rails, type characteristics become very hard to detect because what observers usually witness is a battle of two sets of baggage. A bigoted perception followed up with an insensitive comment precipitates a equally bigoted response, and ITR has nothing to do with it. And, I've also noted that many Ep- and Ij-types seem to rage in their dual-like personas.......
a.k.a. I/O
IR work always in close relations. So somehow they should appear in conflicts, while how to see it - is secondary.
I even saw an interesting hypothesis, than when you hurt some function of model A of an opponent, then he strikes you to same functions in the model.
For example, if LSE will hurt Se function of EII [will be too aggressive], then he'll get the strike to Ni [EII may procrastinate something important]. If ESI will delay something for LSE, he may get the criticism of his bad motivations leaded to this happended.
> And, I've also noted that many Ep- and Ij-types seem to rage in their dual-like personas
Fe valued show and accept negative drama easier.
Fi valued tolerate this harder, but also can to feel anger and sometimes this may lead to open rage.
Might be SEE-LSI.
I would think that type has more to do with how the baggage would be assimilated as a result of life experience and influence. A Hutu ENFp would likely have a very different interaction with a Tutsi INTj or ISTp than would an ENFp member of the KKK. ITR is responsible for divergent priorities, directions and lifestyles but differences of opinion are not sources for conflict; baggage certainly is .........
a.k.a. I/O
I talked about conflicts in general, without taking situations where non-types factors may to give too strong influence.
Can we see IR influence in conflicts in general or not... We can, as IR work there anyway. The more influence of non-types types, the harder to notice the influence of a single factor like IR among others. Nother else.
The reasons for conflicts, how they go, how people describe them is also under IR influence.
IR theory initially represents good and bad for relations, implies the description of the conflicting regions and patterns between 2 types. Hence when you see these patterns you may assume IR and types, or at least to assume more possible types for 2nd human when you are sure in the type of 1st one.
> differences of opinion are not sources for conflict
as opinions represent the needs, - they are
@Sol if one limits the definition of conflict to differences of opinion or needs then I would agree with you. However, the fist fights at work in which I've had to intervene and the Mel Gibson meltdowns are sourced from different roots; these move interaction from peaceful discussion and division to really serious conflict that will likely cause some form of injury.....
I'm only referring to type characteristics becoming very hard to detect when there's real conflict.
a.k.a. I/O
Last edited by Rebelondeck; 04-14-2018 at 11:01 AM.
I completely agree.@Sol if one limits the definition of conflict to differences of opinion or needs then I would agree with you. However, the fist fights at work in which I've had to intervene and the Mel Gibson meltdowns are sourced from different roots; these move interaction from peaceful discussion and division to really serious conflict that will likely cause some form of injury.....
I'm only referring to type characteristics becoming very hard to detect when there's real conflict.
a.k.a. I/O
Divergent expectations over specific stuff in everyday matters doesn't have to be type related.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
There is a lot of "divergent expectations [needs, wishes] over specific stuff in everyday matters" that has significant IR influence. The easiest example are problems of different J/P.
The closer, more intensive and lesser formal the relations are the more IR affect them, what implies the basis for stable conflicts and their degree. The examples of this are long close friendships and marriages.
This is the classical theory and there is nothing significant against it. Also I saw that generally relations wich fit to IR theory for the conditions said above. The opposite opinions are heresy. To notice IR theory influence on practical relations needs correct types, certainly. Seems this is the reason Rebelondeck and others may reject the importance of IR where the theory points them as important.
Also the quality of IR affects the general predisposition to conflicts, besides the specifics of the concrete types. The more you like the human and better you feel in the relations in general - the more and easier you'll forgive him, the more you'll introject his needs and views as own and in the same degree you may change his behavior to the side of your needs.
It's another side of the duality - besides initial compatibility of wishes, people adopt internally to each other in deeper degree. The most among all IR.
I agree - close, intensive and less formal then socionics works.
However we were talking about work which Can be quote formal.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
IR is an important factor in working relationships; it's a good theoretical predictor of how types will interact at a fundamental level provided that there aren't other overriding factors that are even more divisive or uniting. Type contributes heavily to the creation of these overriding factors but there comes a point when many factors take on lives of their own. I realize that many relationships die from a thousand cuts due to bad IR. However, I've had many occasions to see duals literally fight over religion, politics and the raising of children; I've also seen so-called bad IR mixes work very effectively toward common goals so IR isn't an accurate predictor of outcomes when considered in isolation.
a.k.a. I/O
I think Gosling is SEI and that graham norton spot kind of proves it in my mind, where he tells Meryl Streep (I think) to be nice to his mom, and then everyone is like "you realize she's going to see this now right"
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