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Thread: The Original Function

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    Thumbs down The Original Function

    Of the current existing 8 functions, what is (are) the most primeval and gave way to the rest? Is there a hierarchy of functions, most fundamental to least? Were there perhaps, defunct functions or primitive versions of more fundamental ones? Does anyone have an "intuition" as to what it might be?

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    +Ni

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    It seems to me that the most basic function would be Sensing. An entity would sense it's external environment in order to modify (improve, preserve) it's internal environment. A string responds to vibrations, a piece of silicon responds to light. Neither takes it to the next level.

    The next thing an entity needs to do after experiencing sensations is to separate them, by which I mean to identify them as separate from each other and from the self. This is done by the naming function, Thinking. (In the beginning of self was the Word.)

    The next thing to do is to assign relative values to the sensations or, more abstractly, the objects being sensed. This is done using Feelings. Feelings don't necessarily require flexible memory. The feelings, or subjective values, invoked by a set of sensations can be hard-wired. Food is good, move toward it, waste is bad, move away.

    Finally, an entity should know what it can or should do about those sensations it has sensed, identified, and assigned values to. This is Intuition, which is a development of pattern matching. However, pattern matching requires recordable memory in which to store the patterns and a compare function to compare the stored patterns to the present ones. The stored but unexperienced-yet-in-present pattern is future intuition. "If this goes on.....then that will happen."

    It seems unlikely to me that information can be constructively processed in any other order.

    I'm so glad I did acid. It really peels back your perceptions to the basic hardware. I'm also glad I'm not doing it now. Lol.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 04-06-2018 at 02:33 AM.

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    All the functions happen at once but the most basic is Si since it's deciding what's real and what's not for Ne. Then, Ne uses its weird Ne mathy stuff to generate the rest from the void between itself and Si/actuality and the dynamic world is produced. But that's not actually a "then" of "this happens in this order."

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    Quote Originally Posted by lavos View Post
    +Ni
    -Ni. Negative stimuli are more guiding/memorable than positive ones.
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    Default +Se it is, two-place tie for -Pe

    Ne would take over for the fundamental actual building materials of the cosmos. -Ne is the material, +Ne predicts the material's attributes. As for which comes first, whooo... this heads right into some science stuff I've yet to really dive into.

    Se would be the directly-felt evaluation of material, most pure when quantitative, mass-based, with inherence being, once again, the domain of Ne.

    Pe sans Ne -- everything is apples to apples.

    Pe sans Se -- everything is just discombobulated... stuff.

    If I can't justify Ti being foundational, despite purity/clarity, due to a living being having to access it to birth it into the realm of existence, there goes +Ne, and -Ne, both behind all that is Se, with +Se going all the way due to involved > external.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Finally, an entity should know what it can or should do about those sensations it has sensed, identified, and assigned values to. This is Intuition, which is a development of pattern matching. However, pattern matching requires recordable memory in which to store the patterns and a compare function to compare the stored patterns to the present ones. The stored but unexperienced-yet-in-present pattern is future intuition. "If this goes on.....then that will happen."

    It seems unlikely to me that information can be constructively processed in any other order.
    I think this is kind of correct, but it also doesn't explain anything.

    First, we know that predicting the future might have something to do with past memories.

    Socionics can do the same thing. It can observe people, and say that people who tend to predict the future a lot also seems to think about the past a lot, and that would be true. But it told nothing whatsoever about why this was the case, or how it worked, that imagining the future has to do with retrieving from memories of the past. It just says that people who think about the future also think about the past a lot.

    In HINDSIGHT, we know that's the case, because it was found by Scientific research, not Socionics research. Socionics only says that "Ni people exist". But how that Ni works, is not explained.

    I don't think that it would have been POSSIBLE to know this from Socionics. Even inductively. You say well what's the opposite of Ni? Then you would say Si. But then removing this Si wouldn't solve the problem. What is connected to Ni? You could possibly say, Se. But how can you have weak sensory information from the outside, when imagining the future relies on sensory information? Also removing Se doesn't work, because Se was supposed to be weak in the Ni person in the first place.

    What made this deduction possible, was through the removal of memory in the hippocampus area in the brain. The patient with the hippocampus removed could no longer imagine the future. And that's how we could deduce that imagining the future might have something to do with past memories. But this couldn't have been done with Socionics, because Ni contains BOTH, it's both the past memory AND the future. You can't "break apart" Ni and make it into smaller pieces, to analyze how they work. Ni contains too much because it tries to do too much. It's an abstraction without an explanation: as in, it's just an observation, a result of something, but not the process.

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    Quote Originally Posted by muhtempus View Post
    Of the current existing 8 functions, what is (are) the most primeval and gave way to the rest? Is there a hierarchy of functions, most fundamental to least? Were there perhaps, defunct functions or primitive versions of more fundamental ones? Does anyone have an "intuition" as to what it might be?
    This is a very deep question.

    From one aspect it would be Se since it's about what is (this being one of my definitions of it). From another it would be Si. These seem to be the simplest if not most primordial, with the proviso that there are actually 16 IM elements, not 8. Intuition implies some kind of absence or multiplicity (something other than what is present), but if you see the IM elements as changes then naturally change (Ne) describes all of them.

    The most emergent or specific ones seem to be Fe and Te since they involve both change and interpretation / language.
    The higher, the fewer

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    Quote Originally Posted by muhtempus View Post
    Is there a hierarchy of functions, most fundamental to least?
    no. they relate to the modern human consciousness and from his point should being appeared and developed simultaneously

    > Were there perhaps, defunct functions or primitive versions of more fundamental ones?

    there are no. only lesser conscious and developed states of the Jung's ones - among weak ones for the type

    there are more ancient states of mind - there the contents of Jung's functions should be mixed like with synesthesia
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Apparently the very first stages of development of the brain involve the reception of sounds, I think it's Se in socionics.

    http://neurosciencenews.com/early-br...y-source-7888/

    If that is really the case, and it's very probable, then we shouldn't disregard Ni as well, paired with Se. They're both receptive functions, helping the mesencephalon (first development of the brain) to absorb all that it needs to develop further; it's my personal idea that it's in such initial state that we're "one with the universe", and that can't be merely Se.

    So yes, S + N

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    Se/Si. Si is the poor man's intuition, but necessary to begin the process of moving towards a delineated thinking product.

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    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
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    The functions are the result of differentiation. You should read Erich Neumann "The origins and history of consciousness". He has some discussion of the origin of the functions. He says that rational functions seem to be a later development and irrational more primitive. I'll get back with a quote, when I have looked though the book.

    Si seems to me to be the most primitive function, it is related to things that primitive organism do.


    Quote Originally Posted by ouronis View Post
    Si is the poor man's intuition, but necessary to begin the process of moving towards a delineated thinking product.
    Why do you think that?
    Last edited by Tallmo; 04-15-2018 at 03:04 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    The functions are the result of differentiation. You should read Erich Neumann "The origins and history of consciousness". He has some discussion of the origin of the functions. He says that rational functions seem to be a later development and irrational more primitive. I'll get back with a quote, when I have looked though the book.

    Si seems to me to be the most primitive function, it is related to things that primitive organism do.




    Why do you think that?
    Because it produces the beginning of projections and is typically inflexible towards them. A projection can turn into an idea, but not until after going through other stages. I think Si, and Pi in general, are good at producing a lot of these and transforming the basics of experience into something the collective can slowly modify.

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    The idea of socionics is that functions are equal. If one would need to consider if some functions are more important than others, one would need to change that assumption first. Or, provide some context in which some functions can be more important than others.

    For example, if the brain could be considered as engine: it needs air or fuel, so that could be Ne, as flow of new information and it's speed would be the most important. But when considering combustion, i.e. actually using it in meaningful way, that would be Ni. But one cannot exist without other, so they are both important.

    Human can not be only considered as information processing engine, but has also a body. So the security is here most important and that would be Se and Si.

    I don't mention the judging functions because I've always considered them secondary. For example Fe. The judging people are usually more productive but lack needed essence, so they usually do more but unneeded or nonsense stuff without thinking it over properly first. Also judgers usually don't process information in full they shorten it significantly by e.g. applying their logic when there are things which are not logical. Especially introverted judgers. Therefore I think perceiving first judging second is better.
    Last edited by falsehope; 04-06-2018 at 03:18 PM.

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    Sorry I originally had LSI in this post but LSI are not real-time reactive. It was a mistake; I should never use this Socionics nomenclature.

    ISTp would likely be the original wiring configuration and our automatic response systems are likely still wired that way; something out of the ordinary creates an immediate response, which would be knee-jerk reactions when threatened. In hunter-gatherer society, a vigilant adaptive type that is focused on the immediate environment would likely have a leg up. Unfortunately today, outside of a war or disaster zone, ISTp directness, effectiveness and efficiency aren't often appreciated....

    a.k.a. I/O
    Last edited by Rebelondeck; 04-09-2018 at 12:18 PM.

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    Se is probably the first perception, but only when it is converted to internal sensory experience (Si), does it begin to exist as a conscious experience since this is the beginning of the separation between object and subject, as well as the percpetion of Self - perception of Self begins when perception of the cosmos happens. And for perception of Self to happen, the self/ego must separate from the objective universe.

    Then the other functions follow, I basically agree with the order presented by @Adam Strange.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Finally, an entity should know what it can or should do about those sensations it has sensed, identified, and assigned values to. This is Intuition, which is a development of pattern matching. However, pattern matching requires recordable memory in which to store the patterns and a compare function to compare the stored patterns to the present ones. The stored but unexperienced-yet-in-present pattern is future intuition. "If this goes on.....then that will happen."

    It seems unlikely to me that information can be constructively processed in any other order.

    I'm so glad I did acid. It really peels back your perceptions to the basic hardware. I'm also glad I'm not doing it now. Lol.
    Thats not intuition thats logic. Ur basically describing a sensors brain rn.
    The 2 4 6 8 [fill in the gap] 12 14 style of thinking is simply logic. Intuition is a vague feeling of something being right or not but cant rlly put ur finger on it till it suddenly sticks
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    Base function.
    Projection is ordinary. Person A projects at person B, hoping tovalidate something about person A by the response of person B. However, person B, not wanting to be an obejct of someone elses ego and guarding against existential terror constructs a personality which protects his ego and maintain a certain sense of a robust and real self that is different and separate from person A. Sadly, this robust and real self, cut off by defenses of character from the rest of the world, is quite vulnerable and fragile given that it is imaginary and propped up through external feed back. Person B is dimly aware of this and defends against it all the more, even desperately projecting his anxieties back onto person A, with the hope of shoring up his ego with salubrious validation. All of this happens without A or B acknowledging it, of course. Because to face up to it consciously is shocking, in that this is all anybody is doing or can do and it seems absurd when you realize how pathetic it is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Number 9 large View Post
    Thats not intuition thats logic. Ur basically describing a sensors brain rn.
    The 2 4 6 8 [fill in the gap] 12 14 style of thinking is simply logic. Intuition is a vague feeling of something being right or not but cant rlly put ur finger on it till it suddenly sticks

    That sounds like pattern-matching to me.
    For example, you’ve watched hours and hours of sit-coms. You notice that the story of your life starts to feel strangely familiar, but you can’t figure out how it’s going to work out until you suddenly “stick” your life against (match it to) one of the sit-com stories.

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    as @Pallas Athena and @Tallmo said I think its Si, then Se. Si is what organisms do basically at first. The fist thing doctors check out in babies is if they are able to hear, to see, to sense.
    Then, Se seems basic for survival, in the sense of being aware of the objects outside the self, its necessary for hunting, grasping objects, etc. I think Si and Se are the most basic and instinctive functions.

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    The original function was Fi.
    "The society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools." ― Thucydides

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crystal View Post
    as @Pallas Athena and @Tallmo said I think its Si, then Se. Si is what organisms do basically at first. The fist thing doctors check out in babies is if they are able to hear, to see, to sense.
    Then, Se seems basic for survival, in the sense of being aware of the objects outside the self, its necessary for hunting, grasping objects, etc. I think Si and Se are the most basic and instinctive functions.
    But I said functions all arose at once, one was just more basic. In order for any to arise first in time, Ni has to exist.

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    Here's something to chew on:

    In the dawn period the perception of images resulted in an immediate reflex action, because consciousness only took passive precedence over the executive organ of the body, but was not superordinate to it. The fact that its organic substrate derives embryologically from the ectoderm shows that consciousness was a kind of sense organ; yet it was already differentiated in two directions and could perceive images coming from the outside as well as the inside. Originally it was impossible for the ego to distinguish the source of these images, for at the stage of participation mystique an outside could not be perceived as distinct from an inside; the two sets of images overlapped, so that experience of the world coincided with inner experience.
    This original phase, when consciousness was a sense organ, is marked by the functions of sensation and intuition, i.e., the perceptive functions which are the first to appear both in the development of primitives and in that of the child.

    This is not the place to enter more specifically into function-psychology; we need only note that feeling and thinking, being rational functions, are the product of a later development. (Cf. Jung Psychological types, def 44) The rational functions are correlated with the laws of reasoning, which have only become accessible to consciousness as the deposits of ancestral experience. Jung gives the following definition: "Human reason, therefore, is nothing other than the expression of man's adaptedness to the average run of events, which have gradually become deposited in solidly organized complexes of ideas that constitute our objective values. Thus the laws of reason are those laws which characterize and regulate the average "correct" or adapted attitude". So it is understandable that the rational functions are historically late products. Adaption to average events and the formation of solidly organized complexes of ideas are the "work of human history", and into their organization has gone the "labor of countless generations."

    Neumann: The origins and history of counsciousness, p.295-296

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    I think it's +Ne.

    - ILE is the first sociotype in the first quadra
    - Ne extrapolates and expands (makes sense as to how the other IEs could be generated from it conceptually); the universe/big bang has such qualities too

    Then came the logic IEs, along with Ni. Then sensing ones. And lastly ethical ones. But really, since they exist in perfect dual harmony, they all had to happen at about the same time.

    For the first function for living organisms, Si > Se. Since they were all vegan solar panels. The first delta NFs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pallas Athena View Post
    But I said functions all arose at once, one was just more basic. In order for any to arise first in time, Ni has to exist.

    I was referring to this:
    Quote Originally Posted by Pallas Athena View Post
    All the functions happen at once but the most basic is Si...
    I don't think Ni =time. All 4d functions works through time according model A. One function working through time is actually the only quality that defines a 4d function.
    Last edited by Aki; 04-15-2018 at 06:54 AM.

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    So let's take a peak into evolution. So when things gained such thing as a consciousness. I would just say that consciousness is {, :Ni; , , ,, , }.

    Seriously all the IE's are needed if even one is dropped then everything collapses (if we assume that we can separate those things). Balance goes completely out of control. Yes, when it comes to strength of the IE's one should look at the environment and where adaptation happens. It depends on circumstances where organism lives.

    If we go down to elemental particles level I have to say that thing such as IE is not formed and can be only used analogously.

    Let's look at elemental particle and take of one of those properties out:

    No – no dynamism
    No – no pattern
    No – no impact
    No – no structure
    No – no processes
    No – nothing connective
    No – noting is alive

    Which one would it be? Ummm.. I can't really say but I'm inclined to say nothing.
    extrospection > introspection

    Head type as in being truly head type and probably 7>5. Too divergent, scattered and expressive for typical 5 and that is the preferred way although long term focus usually helps.


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    Sensing in general being the first function that is used by humans does make sense to me,
    but my notion is that all functions developed together, maybe some functions were more conscious and more valued at stone age.

    I'm not a fan of a theory that cognitive functions have developed seperately.

    My overall impression is that the question is related to the question: "What came first egg or chicken?".
    Science knows the answer, neither of both, the answer is: The proto-chicken.

    My own idea is a more Darwinistic based one.
    People develop cognitive functions they get the most reward from in the environment they grow up, or reject the use of functions that are not rewarded.
    Furthermore it doesn't make sense to develop all functions to equal strength or same quality.
    That'd intensify intra-personal conflicts.
    Last edited by WinnieW; 04-15-2018 at 01:54 PM.

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    I read it's . To me it makes sense, being the element of the womb as I call it, the first instance that creates and sustains life. Probably blocked with cause the first thing we do is scream when we come out It all starts in Alpha.

    - essentially the expression of humanity's root chakra if you will. It's the base of all others with intuition as the opposite and higher end (third eye, crown chakra!).

    Similarly, the enneagram starts at E9 which is often compared with but I'm not entirely behind that.

    The socion begins with ILE/ because potential energy generates everything but hm... That's Augusta putting her own type first, unsurprisingly. can survive without but can't survive without . So we know what was first. Body is formed before abstract thought. So I back up the posts that say sensing M'kay

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    There should be preservation, but before that some kind of creation of life and that by some randomized try end error. Also all life have some kind of order, its the reversed entropy. So thats a judgements element there. Fe and Fi is the result of group behaviour so it probably more important at some later stage. All those first stages of life probably bounced and touched each other and exchanged information and building blocks and that be ethnics. ;p Maybe all functions are original pieces?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
    That's Augusta putting her own type first, unsurprisingly. can survive without but can't survive without . So we know what was first. Body is formed before abstract thought. So I back up the posts that say sensing M'kay
    Yeah this is what it comes down to.
    The higher, the fewer

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    I'm sort of confused as to what the actual question is, namely, are we asking what the fundamental cognitive function is? I.e.: what the most primitive lifeform who still exhibits cognition possesses? or is it what function develops first in the human experience? as to the latter point it seems like functions only have meaning in terms of dichotomous functioning, which is to say undifferentiated function is not really a function within the meaning of any of the 8 functions, since by definition they are differentiated into 8 to begin with. and I think the idea is the self exists prior to the ego, and the ego "dies" or is "born" into being in virtue of the self becoming differentiated, but along different lines, which is what gives rise to type. in other words, the original function, as to the second question, is different depending on the brain and environment of the individual. As to the first question, we must first answer the question as to whether animals have cognitive function, to which I think it is safe to say yes, but that it is a form of perception without conscious rationality, and it is probably sensory. A lot of people don't like this on some level because it implies a kind of heirarchical inferiority of to the sensing function, but I would argue that the oldest functions are the most evolutionarily refined and its the newer functions that are in some sense inferior and less sophisticated. I think a form of whole body perception whether it be extroverted or introverted is probably the most complex thing there is with regard to sophistication. however, intuition and thinking are in some sense the most novel precisely because of their unrefined and evolutionarily explosive, albeit it remains to be seen whether "proven", character. in any case I think the question is vague and raises deeper questions that need to be addressed before any real satisfactory answer can be developed

    from the broadest possible perspective, I think the argument would be the transcendent function actually exists prior to and in all lifeforms with any kind of cognition at all, and it is what drives differentiation and re unification itself. this is closely analogized to Ne but I don't think they're precisely the same thing. however I can see how an argument can be made for Ne coming first and being fundamental for those reasons. a lot of this is going to go back to the base function of the individual in question, since it is kind of organizing principle they perceive the world through, and that makes it hard, if not impossible, to separate out from the question itself, since it is asking in some sense, what is the "ruling" i.e.: God function. and as we know there are at least 16 answers as to what rules the world, etc

    perception is distributed through the nervous system not necessarily inhering only in the brain, hence primitive organisms with nervous function have capacity for some form of sensing. inasmuch as this form of organism may predate extroverted perceptual organs, i.e.: vision and so forth, perhaps with only something like pain/comfort "blindly" guiding them, it seems like the most likely answer on that level is Si. I feel like evolution has highly, beyond comprehension really, refined this simple pain/comfort apparatus, that, we take it for granted but, ultimately is insanely sophisticated in humans, likely moreso than any other tool in our kit

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    My "intuition"tells me that socionics does not have the answer to op's question.

    I attempted a similar thread but at the time I was not quite sure what true purpose of starting the thread was. I just felt it was important in some way. I guess not much came of it but you can take a look at it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post

    "We say our Intuition is our sixth sense,” Mitchell continues. “No, it should be our first sense because it is rooted in the quantum reality which was around long before our sensory mechanism, long before our solar system. It is a first cause information structure in nature. And this is what the Quantum Intuition world is all about."



    To the Moon and Back:
    What Astronaut Dr. Edgar Mitchell
    Says About Intuition

    Apollo 14’s Edgar “Ed” Mitchell was the 6th out of 12 astronauts to walk on the moon. The surreal experience of space and time inspired him to spend these last few decades exploring the elusive workings of consciousness, including intuition. Mitchell founded the Institute of Noetic Sciences, or IONS, in 1973 and began collaborating with many well-known scientists. Today, their findings are shared with those of us down here on Earth through the IONS website and videos.

    One of those videos features Mitchell explaining Quantum Intuition, a relatively new theory that takes the mysticism out of a seemingly spiritual concept. His words bridge quantum physics with evolution and leave the viewer with a fuller understanding of pre-cognitive ability.

    Mitchell explains, "All objects, our bodies, this, that, everything emit particles of light…those emissions are quantum entangled, coherent, holographic and carry information about us.” The holographic reference regards Quantum Hologram Theory which states that all information for any dimension is present and available in the second dimension. But the big punch here is “light”. Because our emitted info-packed light particles all entangle or mash together, we are able to share information at our deepest sub-cellular, sub-nuclear level and through spacetime. So, even when two people are separated by miles, their emissions can still connect with and affect each other. Thus, the sharing of intuitive information, often demonstrated when out-of-the-blue we think of someone who then suddenly rings our phone.

    “We say our Intuition is our sixth sense,” Mitchell continues. “No, it should be our first sense because it is rooted in the quantum reality which was around long before our sensory mechanism, long before our solar system. It is a first cause information structure in nature. And this is what the Quantum Intuition world is all about."
    Of course it is!

    Our 5 rudimentary senses came along long after our intuitive senses. This is why instinct was so strong in early man, not just because it had to be to keep people safe from pending danger, but because it was the first information link to be structured. Quantum Intuition has always been prevalent in humans, and now many researchers believe it helped evolve our DNA to where it is today. And since the dawn of man, our intuitive abilities have developed right alongside those genetic codes.

    Mitchell wraps things up by presenting evolution as a “learning process,” and points out that thanks to brave thinking and technological advancements, “We’re starting to understand (the universe) quite differently than our predecessors did even a few decades ago.”

    We've come a long way from a flat earth!

    Enjoy Dr. Mitchell's interview here:
    http://twis.s3.amazonaws.com/mac/vid...hell/index.htm




    Quote Originally Posted by wacey View Post
    Fi----> Cohesion.
    Fe----> Expression.
    Si----> Safety.
    Te----> Knowledge.
    Ti-----> Concentration.
    Se----> Reality.
    Ni-----> Causation.
    Ne----> Imagination.

    Each is boiled down to what the IE really are at the core, before culture.
    My response:

    Introverted functions would probably have been the first to develop in early man?

    If I were to put in some kind of order it would be:

    Ni (causation) Si (safety) Fi (cohesion) Ti (concentration)

    Then

    Ne (imagination) Se (reality) Fe (expression) Te (knowledge)

    But that doesn't feel right so there might of been some alternating of strong functions in early man between the introverted and extroverted. There seems to be some form of progression of processing information for early man that is not far from our own. We have just grown more complex over time. Like children born in the last twenty years seem to learn much faster.


    Plants intuitively talk to each other in a variety of ways including a form of sensing. I can even go as far as saying that plants feel but probably not anything close to what we call emotion. I would have a bit of trouble believing they think but if they communicate intuitively they would not have to. Just saw a documentary on amazon prime.

    Not that this is completely related but what you said got me thinking about something @William mentioned awhile back in another thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by William View Post
    Has anyone ever thought what life was like before contacts and glasses were invented? If you were born with bad eyesight, I guess you were just out of luck for living a normal life.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    It made people more interdependent on their tribesman or kinsman to survive. Some farsighted, some nearsighted, some blind. I am thinking the blind would be responsible for listening for things others would miss and the ones who could see well up close did more detailed work. The others would spot things at a distance that normal vision might miss because they were focused clearly on their immediate surroundings. heh
    It is kind of easier to view it as intuition/sensing were most important for early survival. Feeling/Thinking would have been important to develop in order to not only survive but to build societies. I can't quite put this into the right words so will probably edit later. It's like right there but not.

    You could look into studies of this sort.

    Non-Human Origins of Human Perception in the Pre-Pleistocene.
    Source: Journal of Mind & Behavior . Summer/Autumn2016, Vol. 37 Issue 3/4, p183-197. 16p.
    Author(s): Hoffmann, Gregory C.; Gordon, Michael S.
    Abstract:
    In this essay we argue that the human perceptual and sensory mechanisms, which have been described as part of the emergence of our species during the Pleistocene, are part of a much earlier evolutionary trend. Evidence for the pre-human development of our perceptual systems is explored using the comparative literature of non-primates and non-mammals. Furthermore, we argue that evolutionary psychology theorists have tended to misconstrue the mechanisms of perception through an anthrocentric lens. Other lines of thought contend that much of hominid cognition and perception is evolutionarily unique to the point that a broad cognitive discontinuity exists between humans and other species. While the emergence of our species during the Pleistocene clearly has a significant influence on the human brain and mind, it is our contention that perception, and, arguably, the basis of most cognition, is related to much more longstanding environmental constraints as they impacted biological development. Comparative evidence from primates, other mammals, and non-mammalian species, in addition to an evaluation of evolutionary forces and history, are used in support of this argument. The human mind seems to be ancient in its architecture having been sculpted by longstanding and pre-human ecological constraints originating in perceptual mechanisms that significantly pre-date the Pleistocene.
    and
    ABSTRACT
    Humans are animals that specialize in thinking and knowing, and our extraordinary cognitive abilities have transformed every aspect of our lives. In contrast to our chimpanzee cousins and Stone Age ancestors, we are complex political, economic, scientific and artistic creatures, living in a vast range of habitats, many of which are our own creation. Research on the evolution of human cognition asks what types of thinking make us such peculiar animals, and how they have been generated by evolutionary processes. New research in this field looks deeper into the evolutionary history of human cognition, and adopts a more multi-disciplinary approach than earlier ‘Evolutionary Psychology’. It is informed by comparisons between humans and a range of primate and non-primate species, and integrates findings from anthropology, archaeology, economics, evolutionary biology, neuroscience, philosophy and psychology. Using these methods, recent research reveals profound commonalities, as well striking differences, between human and non-human minds, and suggests that the evolution of human cognition has been much more gradual and incremental than previously assumed. It accords crucial roles to cultural evolution, techno-social co-evolution and gene–culture co-evolution. These have produced domain-general developmental processes with extraordinary power—power that makes human cognition, and human lives, unique.


    Keywords: cognition, evolution of cognition, cognitive development, social cognition, cultural evolution, human evolution


    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3385676/

    The fact that our brains are electrical is a relatively new discovery.

    The first article about electrical phenomena in the brains of monkeys and rabbits was published in the British Medical Journal of 1875.

    Nearly a half century would pass before the first human EEG (electroencephalogram) was recorded. That distinction would go to German psychiatrist and physiologist Hans Berger who invented the device that would begin the field of electroencephalography.

    The 4 Building Blocks of Consciousness
    There are 4 basic brain wave frequencies and each correlates with a specific state of consciousness. Like sound frequencies, brain waves are measured in Hz, or cycles per second. In general, the slower the frequency of your brain waves, the more relaxed you feel.

    Meditation, neurofeedback, hypnosis, and guided imagery have all been shown to help people control their brain waves more efficiently for better health, higher performance, and a more positive experience of life.

    Beta Waves: 13-30 Hz
    Your brain is producing beta waves as you are reading this. A predominance of beta waves is associated with being alert, active, and whenever you concentrate on learning something or doing an activity that requires focus.

    Beta waves are also associated with over-thinking and worry. While the beta state has gotten a bad rap in some meditation circles, you need your brain to generate beta waves in order to think and function consciously.

    But when you want to relax, it’s time to shift into alpha.

    Alpha Waves: 8-13 Hz
    Alpha is the brain wave associated with relaxed, daydreaming states of mind; it’s a state of relaxed, detached awareness. Many people are “in alpha” while watching TV. Alpha is often called a “hypnogogic” state because you may experience spontaneous mental imagery.

    If you’re like most people, when you close your eyes and take a few slow, deep breaths you’ll experience a light, relaxed alpha state. Alpha is considered the gateway to meditation. Some people consider alpha waves to be the link between the conscious mind and the subconscious.

    You produce alpha waves when you relax to guided imagery. Your brain also produces alpha waves just before you drift off to sleep and just before you wake up. At the beginning of “stage 1 sleep” alpha waves disappear and theta waves appear.

    Theta: 4-8 Hz
    Theta waves are often associated with deep states of meditation, peak spiritual experiences, and higher states of consciousness. Theta waves are associated with drowsiness or arousal in adults and older children. Young children are in theta most of the time.

    Some people consider the theta state to be synonymous with the subconscious mind wherein reside suppressed emotions, as well as a storehouse of creativity. Theta is associated with REM (rapid eye movement) sleep where dreams occur.

    Delta: up to 4 Hz
    Delta waves occur in adults during deep, or “slow wave” sleep. It seems this state is needed by the brain because after a period of sleep deprivation, there’s usually a rebound of slow wave sleep. Alcohol interferes with delta wave sleep. A low carbohydrate diet has been shown to increase the amount of delta activity and deep sleep in healthy individuals.

    Delta states sometimes occur during continuous attention tasks.

    Delta is considered by some to be the bridge to what Carl Jung described as the “collective unconscious.” Babies are in delta much of the time. For some reason adult females have been shown to have more delta wave activity. This is true not just in humans but in most mammals.

    Beyond the Basic Brain Waves
    Gamma: 25-100 Hz

    Neurologists have also described a Gamma brainwave that’s thought to be involved with our sense of conscious awareness. Gamma waves range in frequency from 25 to 100 Hz though usually they are around 40 Hz. Studies of Tibetan Buddhist monks have shown a correlation between gamma waves and transcendental states of consciousness, but not all neuroscientists are convinced.

    Mu 8-13 Hz

    The Mu wave is a brain frequency which has been observed and studied since the 1930’s. Mu waves are in the range of 8-13 Hz and arise from large groups of neurons in the brain.

    Recently Mu brain waves have been associated with the “mirror neuron” system that activates when we watch another person’s activity. Because mu brain waves may play a role in our ability to understand and imitate others’ behavior, enhancing mu wave activity via neurofeedback is being studied as a therapy for autism. Early results are promising.
    Between the ages of 0 – 7 are our programming years. During these years, our children will spend most of their time in Alpha and Theta brainwave cycles, which is the same state that a person is in, when they are in hypnosis or meditation. So you may want to imagine your little children walking around in a permanent state of hypnosis, being programmed by the environment, open to suggestion, in a super learning state.

    These are the years when we take on beliefs, about ourselves and life, and many of these will remain unconscious throughout the rest of our lives, though they will show up in our behaviours, our achievements, our goals, how we choose our friends, our life partners and so on.

    If you think about it, every belief that you have, has been put there or suggested by somebody else. You, now as a parent, will play a crucial role in these programming years of your children.

    Let’s look at each of the different brain wave cycles.

    DELTA:
    Between birth and 2 years old, the human brain functions primarily in the lowest brain-wave cycle, that is 0.5 to 4 cycles per second. These are called Delta waves. Adults in deep sleep are in delta and this explains why a newborn usually can’t remain awake for more than a few minutes at a time. Even at age 1, awake more often now, they still function primarily from their subconscious mind. At this level there is very little critical thinking or judgement taking place. You may have heard of some people who are able to have operations, with no pain relief, whilst feeling no pain. They are in Delta. Also whilst still in the womb, your baby is receiving its programing in this state. How a newborn baby knows how to copy your features when you smile, which is crucial in it building rapport with its carers to aid in its survival outside, comes from a program downloaded whilst in this state.

    They are absorbing even on the womb

    THETA:
    These wave frequencies measure 4 to 8 cycles per second and are predominant in children aged between 2 and 6. Children operating in Theta are very connected to their internal world. They live in the realm of imagination, daydreaming and still not able to show signs of critical, rational thinking. This is a super learning state, where the child is open to suggestion. These children are likely to accept what you tell them as true. People in hypnosis and animals are also in this frequency.

    ALPHA:
    Between ages 5 to 8, the brain waves have changed into an Alpha frequency, 8 to 13 cycles per second. This is the point at which the analytical mind begins to form. Children start to interpret and draw conclusions from their environment. Still though, the inner world of imagination tends to be as real as the outer world of reality.

    Imagination is everything
    Children in this age-group tend to have a foot in both worlds, using both left and right brain hemispheres at the same time. People who meditate or who are in a light trance are in this frequency, which is peaceful and relaxed, though alert with powerful ideas and inspiration. This is a great state to be in when brain storming, creating ideas or learning. (Schools should take note - kids learn when they are relaxed and having fun, not when they are stressed).

    BETA:
    From ages 8 to 12 and onwards, brain activity increases to anything above 13 cycles per second. This is the world of conscious, analytical thinking. The mind is awake, focused and alert and is capable of logical thinking. Adults spend most of their time in this cycle.

    So, as you can see from the above, a crucial time in helping our children install positive beliefs about themselves is between the ages of 0 to 6. What would we like them to believe about themselves and life in general? This is the time to install positive messages, as they will be accepted as true. Comments like ‘Your sister is smarter than you, you are so clumsy, big boys don’t cry’, will have a huge impact. One of the biggest tools that you can give them – is a powerful, positive and healthy belief system. The most limiting beliefs that I see turning up with my clients in later years, time and time again, are those like ‘I’m not good enough, I’m not deserving, I’m worthless, I am unlovable”. These beliefs have been installed, typically between the ages of 0 to 6, and in most cases, unintentionally, by well meaning parents.

    Remember that a belief starts as just a thought. It’s simply a thought that you keep thinking and keep thinking and keep thinking and practicing. Eventually what the thinker thinks the prover proves – which means you will see evidence all around you to prove to yourself that your belief is true as it’s showing up in your reality.

    As an adult, look at what beliefs you may have of yourself. As a child, you had to ‘think’ something in order to experience yourself.

    https://upallhours.com/article/under...-your-children
    also
    http://mamaglow.com/mindblown-brain-waves-birth/

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     




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    You know... here's the thing. I just wonder why people think that Socionics can actually answer these questions. It's like as if people think that the "reality" or the "objective world" or whatever that you want to call it, exist inside of Socionics, and not that it exists outside of it.

    Is there ANY psychological theory that claims to know the origin of life? I mean this is the most ridiculous thing. We were supposed to be studying the HUMAN MIND, and suddenly, we can explain how life itself was formed or how it was started? What do those things have to do with the psychological phenomenon of human beings? Talk about expanding the definitions... Somehow, Socionics goes beyond its realm, and expands from mere psychology to biology. Just... what. Socionics, after all, is a theory based on mere observations of people.

    This is what I mean when I say that Socionics is too fundamental. It's like as if people think that Socioincs is the laws of physics or something, and that it can be applied to anything. It's so religious thinking that it just blows my mind.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Singu View Post
    You know... here's the thing. I just wonder why people think that Socionics can actually answer these questions. It's like as if people think that the "reality" or the "objective world" or whatever that you want to call it, exist inside of Socionics, and not that it exists outside of it.

    Is there ANY psychological theory that claims to know the origin of life? I mean this is the most ridiculous thing. We were supposed to be studying the HUMAN MIND, and suddenly, we can explain how life itself was formed or how it was started? What do those things have to do with the psychological phenomenon of human beings? Talk about expanding the definitions... Somehow, Socionics goes beyond its realm, and expands from mere psychology to biology. Just... what. Socionics, after all, is a theory based on mere observations of people.

    This is what I mean when I say that Socionics is too fundamental. It's like as if people think that Socioincs is the laws of physics or something, and that it can be applied to anything. It's so religious thinking that it just blows my mind.
    You are one of those internet trolls I read about.

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    ????

    ?

    ??

    What are you thinking, exactly? Why on Earth do you think that Socionics can actually talk about things like biological cells? Are you out of your mind? Or are you just proving that Socionics can be applied to anything thanks to its inherent vagueness and broadness of definitions, and hence proving that Socionics isn't exactly explaining anything?

    This thread is pretty much the exact kind of the air-headed idiocy of this forum in a nutshell.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Singu View Post
    ...
    Are you out of your mind?
    ...
    good bye

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    Well here's a simple concept that even simple-minded people can understand.

    What do we exactly mean by "perception"? Is it the "perception" of a SINGLE-CELLED ORGANISM, such as a flagellate, with primitive photo-receptors that detects light in a simplistic way, and mechanically runs away from light and move towards darkness? Well those are just like sensors, they don't actually perceive anything without a central nervous system.

    Or is it the perception of a HUMAN BEING, which detects lights in the retina, which sends nerve impulses to the brain, which the brain interprets and creates a complex 3D visual model of the world out of it? (Which we call a VISUAL PERCEPTION?)

    Well those are two completely different things, which can only be differentiated by EXPLAINING how they actually work. Otherwise, it's just going to cause language-confusions, like "durr, single-celled organisms can perceive, so it must be Si!!". But we can't even explain how that "Si" supposedly works, in either human beings or single-celled organisms.

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    Why I think it's +Ni:

    At the beginning, there was a thought. Everything came from a completely original thought. There was nothing before it. But it was not words, it wasn't an argument (+Ti), it wasn't a recombination of pre-existing elements (+Ne). It was subconcious: an stream of conciousness.

    The other possibility is that is was +Fi, since you need an intention to bring about anything. But to even conjure up an intention, you need some sort of thought process.

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    None of the 8 came first, they all came into the world as opposite poles. Jung talked about how the tribal people he studied could not distinguish the inner world from the outer world. That sounds like a collapse of extroversion and introversion to me. Though I've never experience it, I'm sure some of the high level psychodelics, like n,n dmt, overwhelm the mind with so much information, thought and feelings collapse, and intuition and sensation collapse. The state of psychodelic / spiritual consciousness is not filtered by your ego, yet, is a state of being. If any element came before the 8 in socionics, it would be something like this, the atman.

    To say any type or element came before another is egotistical and ridculous.
    Check out my socionics work [link]

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    They said the first function develops from 7-13yo..

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