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Thread: Your typing of forum members

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    That's why stalkers are useful. *^*
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bertrand View Post
    lol i dont like to argue with myst.
    No, never argue with a woman. You can't win.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bertrand View Post
    as for ethics I think people make too of much stereotypical behaviors and themes when determining attitude and should look at it instead as static/dynamic, because stereotyping kind of launders it through this other process in my mind whereas if you just look at my posting you can see it is dynamic, which means if Fe ego its alpha or beta quadra, and if Te ego its gamma or delta
    I haven't considered the Reinin dichotomies when typing people, mainly because they are not very clearly defined to begin with, but they also contradict other parts of the theory. For example one of the character traits assigned to Static types (according to Sociotype.com at least) is a general, recurring theme or character. However this contradicts the nature of Ne, one aspect of which is to continuously invent and juxtapose random concepts together. So which part of the theory is correct?
    You know that you are dead when someone puts you into a box and you are unable to devise a way to get out of it




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    you can think of it more generally which is attention to the changes, i.e. the links between states, vs the state itself. function (dynamic) v structure (static), I think of myself as "going places" with any given post, and when I respond to people I home in on the divergent part that makes the difference to me. I don't do the line by line, drop a brick on your table, type structural analysis (unless its really really necessary). also the reason I don't argue with myst has zero to do with her being female, its just that it gets too bogged down and I don't feel like i can influence her opinion anyway. i dont feel like her observations are worthless or anything, I do note them

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    *Offensive content removed*

    Moderator note: Please watch what you say a little better.
    Last edited by BandD; 09-04-2018 at 12:58 AM.
    You know that you are dead when someone puts you into a box and you are unable to devise a way to get out of it




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    Quote Originally Posted by Spermatozoa View Post
    Pfft, only beta cucks stalk women. Real Men (TM) take matters into their own hands and rape them.
    That's proof I ain't no Real Man (TM), how soul crushing... *sobs in the distance*
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthernRose View Post
    That's proof I ain't no Real Man (TM), how soul crushing... *sobs in the distance*
    You just need to take some steroids bruh.
    You know that you are dead when someone puts you into a box and you are unable to devise a way to get out of it




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    Quote Originally Posted by Spermatozoa View Post
    You just need to take some steroids bruh.
    Here is what I think of most of yout posts :
    pPCPpnx_d.jpg

    I'll be a butterfly on steroids then.
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthernRose View Post
    Here is what I think of most of yout posts :
    pPCPpnx_d.jpg

    I'll be a butterfly on steroids then.
    You know that you are dead when someone puts you into a box and you are unable to devise a way to get out of it




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    @crAck same but honestly, is there anyone who doesn't?
    💀💀💀 This vampire forumite wishes you all a happy Spooktober 💀💀💀

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    Quote Originally Posted by crAck View Post
    currently this thread is Your sex guess of forum members
    Lol wth man...why do you want to know my gender so badly? You don't reveal yours, why should anyone be excpected to tell you theirs lol?

    In any case, the information you are looking for is on my profile, if you had taken two seconds to look, lol.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    Maybe you are actually Se dual seeking actually (ILI-Te). Anyhow you are definitely gamma NT thus you do have some Fi seeking... just perhaps not as strongly as an LIE.
    I have seriously considered this before but I think it is less likely, are you seeing ILI over LIE or was that just because of my saying I don't get from Bert? Because I get do a strong connection with some EIIs and ESIs, and even some SEEs. I am not saying however that just because I don't get such a connection with someone they are not dom. Seeking connections can also be a Sx first thing. I just experience a certain type of connection with some doms, if they draw me close to them which isn't always the case.

    The reason I think LIE is the way the functions are stacked makes more sense. For example, I am can't see myself as seeking. I am not inert, I need a bit of a push sometimes, but reading the descrption of seeking I get the impression they like others to set goals for them, which I couldn't accept! I set my own goals, I just lack discipline at times to carry them out, so I need to be pushed slighly in the right direction which makes ego introverts more attractive than doms. With the exception of strong SEEs and strong SLEs, doms are too domineering for me. Pretty sure I am a rational type, too. I initiate change, but can't stand change forced upon me, which would seem unusual for an dom type as they are the most gowiththeflow type in the socion, lol.

    But if you have a different take on my type, that is fine, at least we're both seeing gamma values and NT strengths.

    As for Bert, I don't know what to add. I was seeing ILE, but you're telling me the things I am seeing are not wrong, they just don't correlate to the functions I thought they did. Very well. You win. Until I formulate a better argument, which is unlikely as my life doesn't revolve around typing Bert, lol.
    Last edited by Avebury; 08-09-2018 at 08:44 AM.


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    Quote Originally Posted by crAck View Post

    anyhow m8, evidently you have some beef,
    No, I don't, I just don't understand the way you behave. It comes off really strange to me. You ask me for tons of information about me, my photos, my gender, and yet you yourself have been especially cryptic and secretive about your identity. So I don't have "beef" in that I wanna fight with you, I don't want enemies, but your behavior does piss me off, as I can't stand people who make demands on others but freeze up when you make the same demands on them. I once asked you in chatbox what type you thought you were, you don't have to answer if you don't want to, I respect your privacy and space but please respect mine.

    ok no more correspondence
    ...Then you turn around and quote something I said by taking my name out of the quote. This is strange behavior, "m8", if you don't want correspondence don't ghost quote.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Avebury View Post
    I have seriously considered this before but I think it is less likely, are you seeing ILI over LIE or was that just because of my saying I don't get from Bert?
    Not just that, I considered it before too. I'm not sure though, I'll let you know if I think of something decisive about typing for you.


    Because I get do a strong connection with some EIIs and ESIs, and even some SEEs. I am not saying however that just because I don't get such a connection with someone they are not dom. Seeking connections can also be a Sx first thing. I just experience a certain type of connection with some doms, if they draw me close to them which isn't always the case.
    Well that's just Fi superid for preferring that type of (Fi) connection. And yeah sx too for the general focus on connecting.


    The reason I think LIE is the way the functions are stacked makes more sense. For example, I am can't see myself as seeking. I am not inert, I need a bit of a push sometimes, but reading the descrption of seeking I get the impression they like others to set goals for them, which I couldn't accept! I set my own goals, I just lack discipline at times to carry them out, so I need to be pushed slighly in the right direction which makes ego introverts more attractive than doms. With the exception of strong SEEs and strong SLEs, doms are too domineering for me.
    Well because of those exceptions, this doesn't exclude ILI-Te for you. Though noted on what you like from xSIs, hm.

    Afaik Ni leads also set their own goals? And Se helps them find the concrete steps. You don't need that bit of help, tho'?


    Pretty sure I am a rational type, too. I initiate change, but can't stand change forced upon me, which would seem unusual for an dom type as they are the most gowiththeflow type in the socion, lol.
    This bit actually sounds like a very good argument for LIE for you.

    Out of curiosity, how are you with Fe? What kind of emotional expressions do you display if any?


    But if you have a different take on my type, that is fine, at least we're both seeing gamma values and NT strengths.
    Yeah that is pretty clear for you.


    As for Bert, I don't know what to add. I was seeing ILE, but you're telling me the things I am seeing are not wrong, they just don't correlate to the functions I thought they did. Very well. You win. Until I formulate a better argument, which is unlikely as my life doesn't revolve around typing Bert, lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post

    This bit actually sounds like a very good argument for LIE for you.

    Out of curiosity, how are you with Fe? What kind of emotional expressions do you display if any?
    This is going to be bias as it is done to support my self-typing but it is also a reflection that lead up to my self-typing.

    Basically, while I don't enjoy atmosphere and environments, I am good with in the sense I express emotions and tend to say things in a way that isn't too cut and dry, but tend to maybe sugarcoat a little, depending on how I know the person will react? It's hard to explain, but I find ILIs much less likely to lace their words with a smile or a joke to get their point better accepted by others. I also tend to empathize with people, though I am not really into getting mawkish either.

    Another thing is . Criticism towards my clothes, appearance, diet, etc is really painful to me. Criticism towards my emotional expression is usually easier to take.

    This is part of the reason why I think LIE, and not ILI, especially since ILI- has weaker and stronger , and I am the other way around. Pretty sure my isn't that bad, just totally unvalued.


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    Quote Originally Posted by crAck View Post
    lol. ok.

    1. i asked your gender because i was going to say something thatd be wrong if my assumption was incorrect. so i slowed myself down - i sought to ask first.

    2. i "ghost quoted" not as an intentional "ghost quote", but because i copied that single sentence from that post, hit End to get to the reply box at bottom, then manually typed the quote tags (/things)

    all sensible, you see...

    as well, i change my mind sometimes seconds later -> just as ive done here with "no more correspondence". i dont mind it, "you gotta deal" i guess.
    Ok.

    It's cool, I'm not mad or anything, I just didn't get your behavior.

    Perhaps you post your thoughts a bit too quickly, often the info you are looking for is out there, you just take a minute to search. Maybe using a smiley or making a joke wouldn't hurt.

    Peace.


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    Quote Originally Posted by crAck View Post
    did you read somewhere ni base is the most gowiththeflow type?
    Isn't that how irrationals are usually described?

    I think base is more likely to follow a "strong current" because of their DS.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Spermatozoa View Post
    I haven't considered the Reinin dichotomies when typing people, mainly because they are not very clearly defined to begin with, but they also contradict other parts of the theory. For example one of the character traits assigned to Static types (according to Sociotype.com at least) is a general, recurring theme or character. However this contradicts the nature of Ne, one aspect of which is to continuously invent and juxtapose random concepts together. So which part of the theory is correct?
    Static/dynamic isn't just a Reinin dichotomy, it's one of the basic dichotomies the aspects are built on; it's a fundamental tenet of socionics itself. Also, you're mistaken about Ne. It's very clearly static. It's not about where things are headed or leading (Ni) but rather the alternatives and options, the other possible realities for any given person, place, or thing in the current time. Seeing the static elements as occupying space, and the dynamic ones as occupying time can be a useful perspective tool imo.

    As a side note: Ti, and even Fi get misattributed to Ne at times since the Ne egos also have one or the other of those elements in their ego, they merge them a bit. Ne makes no connections whatsoever, as it's an object element, looking at the qualities of objects. It's the field element in the ego that makes the connections.

    Anyway, Ne with Ti (and Te demonstrative) can indeed be inventive, and I've seen some ILEs that were amazing at cranking out unique real-world solutions to problems people didn't even know they had yet. Ne with Fi (and Fe demonstrative) is not inventive in that same way as none of their strong elements are focused on the tangible world, and they tend more to the hidden potential of people, things, events but again, not where things are headed, but all the various possibilities present. It's why some IEEs will argue for the rehabilitation of imo clearly non-repentant criminals, seeing not the current reality of the things the person has done and probably will continue doing in the future, but the chance they could be reformed. And that chance to them is equally valid and likely in spite of evidence. In fiction, Ne + Fi I think is best at character development and introducing unexpected possibilities, and rather than following cliché they can create very original work, since "anything is possible." They can easily introduce the absurd into their stories, the unexpected and unusual. Ne is broad with all those choices and possibilities, but short-sighted like all the static elements can be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bertrand View Post
    lol i dont like to argue with myst. as for ethics I think people make too of much stereotypical behaviors and themes when determining attitude and should look at it instead as static/dynamic, because stereotyping kind of launders it through this other process, in my mind, whereas if you just look at my posting you can see it is dynamic, which means if Fe ego its alpha or beta quadra, and if Te ego its gamma or delta. there's a possibility Im just not dynamic, and that is where a big divergence would lie
    My perspective: Your posts are like brain trails. A lot of twisting and weaving up and down hills and around trees and across streams and through tunnels, describing the scenery along the way. When I respond to them, I typically grab the signposts I see along the trail and focus attention on those.

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    Quote Originally Posted by crAck View Post
    IMO reinins arent cut-and-dry, you can be some reinins of your TIM, but also the opposite.

    e.g.: iirc its 'decisive/judicious' thats said to be x TIM (vs y), but it also said judicious correlates with Introverted. so if you are an Introverted-x, you might more identify with y's designation (judicious) than x's (decisive).

    reinins are sorta detailed so theyre interesting for self-discovery, but using them as a differentiator for yourself makes for a bad time. others, just no lol.

    http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.p...omies#Overview
    Static/Dynamic isn't a Reinin trait. Or rather, it shouldn't be considered one, because it's really much more basic than that. It's one of the very most basic things to understand regarding socionics. I've had to explain this multiple times lately, so I'll just link to the wiki even though it contains some errors: http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.p...ation_elements

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    Quote Originally Posted by crAck View Post
    oh, i know, sorry/evidently it was unclear: i mentioned reinins because sperm did in the quote (which i saw just then, so).

    ty for link
    Right, ok. I thought you were responding to me. np

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    From my understanding, Ni lead have more of a big goal they strive to acheive, yet are too ahead in their head to get the steps done in the present, which is where Se strikes, refocusing the big goal into what to do now to make it happen tomorrow.
    I'm honestly not so sure of this, so correct me if I'm wrong.
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

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    Yes, thee are people who need some reminders from others that tells them something what they want in the future [which is something that makes me bit rebellious when I hear those things and try to find counter arguments like that this vision does not potentially go like it could and its external implications... ].
    extrospection > introspection

    Head type as in being truly head type and probably 7>5. Too divergent, scattered and expressive for typical 5 and that is the preferred way although long term focus usually helps.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post

    Afaik Ni leads also set their own goals? And Se helps them find the concrete steps. You don't need that bit of help, tho'?
    @Myst I accidentally skipped over this question.

    I would say I need that help, but as Troll Nr 7 says, the future is never like we imagine. The question of concrete steps in acheiving a goal is a complex one, to say the least. My pov: reality is filled with limitations. You can't fly if you jump out the window, nor can money be produced without incentives, for example. The best way to acheive a goal is to select one that is realistic, within the laws of reality. I also have discovered, at least recently, the idea that "the shortest way between two points is a straight line" could be false. You get what you want when you stop pushing to get it. Unlike travelling in spacetime, where you just have to walk or drive or fly from point A to point B, human goals are more complex, they involve factors of internal happiness too, and often even if we get what we want it can be dissapointing.

    So I'd like to give you a clear answer, but it depends on the nature of the goal. Usually I get things done as soon as I visualize the steps in my head. Or else I can be stuck in a rut. Visualizing helps if it's something you've done before...however goals related to people are not linear, there are no clear steps to undertake to find love for example.

    There are also things which were always thought to be impossible, such as flight, which have been proven possible. So what gives? However flight, the aircraft, is not a result of magical thinking but of understanding the laws of reality and combining various areas of knowledge to sythnesize the aircraft...I struggle more in the realm of influencing relationships tbh. I think that is a different type of goal, related to people, and not to the laws of outside reality...so you have to be non-linear with people, unlike with things.


    ^^Word salad.

    TLDR: I don't struggle so much with realizing goals as I do influencing people/relationships.
    Last edited by Avebury; 08-09-2018 at 09:05 PM.


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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthernRose View Post
    From my understanding, Ni lead have more of a big goal they strive to acheive, yet are too ahead in their head to get the steps done in the present, which is where Se strikes, refocusing the big goal into what to do now to make it happen tomorrow.
    I'm honestly not so sure of this, so correct me if I'm wrong.
    Neither Ni nor Se nor any other elements have much of anything to do with goals.

    But, the Reinin Tactical/Strategic does focus on that. Strategic Result types would be by those measures the most goal-focused (LII, SLE, LIE and SLI.) Tactical process types the most present action-focused (LSI, ILE, LSE, ILI.) I wouldn't type via this however, it's just something interesting to consider imo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    Neither Ni nor Se nor any other elements have much of anything to do with goals.

    But, the Reinin Tactical/Strategic does focus on that. Strategic Result types would be by those measures the most goal-focused (LII, SLE, LIE and SLI.) Tactical process types the most present action-focused (LSI, ILE, LSE, ILI.) I wouldn't type via this however, it's just something interesting to consider imo.
    Okay, let me try again.
    "Goal" was not the point of this. The goal is what happens in the future, as an abstract projection happening in the present. The more concret part of making the present match the "future projection" is to come back to the present and do stuff.
    It's about Ni getting stuck in the future, and Se bringing it back to the present more than anything.
    I linked it with "goal" as I read above :
    ...reading the description of seeking I get the impression they like others to set goals for them, which I couldn't accept!
    from @Avebury... Perhaps I should have quoted before... meh, too late.
    I also couldn't accept someone setting goals for me...

    There was a lot of stuff happening far up in my head, and very little came through in a concret form to be understood, which killed what I was trying to say. I just realize how fucking far I was from what I tried to express... it's a problem. -w-b
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

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    This is where I got the idea ILIs want others to set goals for them:

    ILI - INTp (Ni,Te) Honoré de Balzac - the French writer.
    1."Imagination directs me". He possesses a powerful, intellectual imagination. A representative of this type, Honoré de Balzac, in his series of novels, The Human Comedy "painted" the portraits of more than 2000 people who appear hyper real: "he is comparable perhaps only to the city controller's office" —wrote of him Andre Maurois. Similarly, the phantasmagoric world of Gabriel García Marquez is impressively precise in every detail. Due to this quality The Critic can forecast the future quite well. From empirical observations of how a man acts at various times he creates something like a functional model in his mind. In general, he tends to know everything in advance. If he did not have to warn other people about possible dangers (opportunities interest him less), he most possibly would feel himself redundant.
    2."A priest's calmness and restraint". He almost never expresses emotions and protects from them his family and friends. He sincerely believes that passions, too strong, will lead one to his doom. Honoré de Balzac has constantly demonstrated throughout his literary works how passion spreads like a devastating cancer that eats away the souls of men until it finally suppresses all else. This holds totally true in the case of his dual (Caesar, The Politician), a hyperactive person that easily gets carried away.
    3.A profound analyst. He is convinced that living is impossible if one disregards the natural laws that regulate the world. One who ignores reality is heading for disaster. The Criticist believes that it is better to be somewhat too cynical then be a hypocrite. Hearing of a situation, he very soon thoroughly understands it and begins to tell to the bewildered interlocutor the details and aspects that the latter had overlooked. His analysis is devoid of any self-encouragement. "You shouldn't have a different attitude towards life than you have for the kitchen—the same amount of stinking odor; if you want to cook a dish, you'll have to get your hands dirty, just make sure you'll be able to wash the dirt off once you are done; that's the entire moral of our day and age."—So speaks Vautrin, a hero of Balzac's books. Such misanthropy can kill the anybody's spirits, except his dual (The Politician)!
    4."First and foremost, he is kind". In spite of all his "negativism", he is really a very kindly person in nature. The above phrase about Honoré de Balzac belongs to George Sand who knew him very well. He likes strong people who know their way in life, who demand concessions: such people release him from the necessity to invent goals, while using methods invented by him (he is a master of inventing methods.) He is capable of pouring a bucket of cold water out on the head of an enthusiast. But on the other hand, he is likewise capable of easing one's despair, when they are unlucky, when things go the wrong way, when destiny seems to be hostile.
    5.Unapproachable and thus desired. A girl-student by the name of Laima (The Politician) gave a good description of this type when she tried to describe the hero of her dreams: "He must be handsome and smart, with big and sad eyes, not talkative. He does not tell compliments, and by that he creates an impression of his inapproachability. He is taunted by myriads of problems, which, in my opinion are nothing to be bothered with. I am attracted by his sadness, seriousness, so I try to amuse him, to raise his spirits, to make him happy. If such a boy is present at a party, I wouldn't be bored." This is a vivid description of this personality type, who is constant in his feelings, does not like adventures, and desires total dependence of his demanding partner.
    I always understood that ILI relies on SEE to invent goals while SEE relies on ILI to invent methods to acheive those goals...

    http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.p...I_.28Balzac.29

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    @Avebury
    Something bothers me greatly about this... what is it though?
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthernRose View Post
    From my understanding, Ni lead have more of a big goal they strive to acheive, yet are too ahead in their head to get the steps done in the present, which is where Se strikes, refocusing the big goal into what to do now to make it happen tomorrow.
    I'm honestly not so sure of this, so correct me if I'm wrong.
    That's pretty much how it happens, however, it is not as simple as Se refocusing that goal into concrete actions. Every Se and Si lead type is also "strategic" by Reinin so they have big goals to achieve of their own to the point of ignoring the goals of their Ni/Ne lead duals if those don't complement their own. This is flipped for rationals where it is the Ni-creative/demonstrative types who are the strategists of their dyad, and it creates some interesting distinctions in how these two different versions of Ni and Se interact.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthernRose View Post
    @Avebury
    Something bothers me greatly about this... what is it though?
    You tell me!

    But maybe you don't like the idea of submitting to someone? That is something I can understand.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Avebury View Post
    You tell me!

    But maybe you don't like the idea of submitting to someone? That is something I can understand.
    @silke sort of said it... it's like what I want may not matter... and I'm sick of passing last... or not having a turn at all.
    It's also intrusive, limitating, and telling me how to best "live" my life with this dual thing that sounds like a hate fest to me.

    And silke being Ni lead understood what I meant, when other types seem to have missed my point... this is disturbing... I mean I knew it, perceptions, valued functions, yada blah, but it's disturbing nontheless... it's what I've been fighting with my whole life... there is no escape.
    Oh shit, existential dread ongoing...
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Avebury View Post
    This is where I got the idea ILIs want others to set goals for them:



    I always understood that ILI relies on SEE to invent goals while SEE relies on ILI to invent methods to acheive those goals...

    http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.p...I_.28Balzac.29
    Well, tactical process types are focused on current actions, the process, and methods or system to enact. And ILI as tactical, process and also Te creative, quite easily could be a master of methods. They're not so much looking at distant goals, so having someone around with "big ideas" can be a relief for them, while they focus on how to make those ideas a reality (or squash them if they're completely unrealistic.)

    The way that some people are associating Ni with goals is incorrect imo because if you look at those that are most goal-focused you have both SLE and SLI, and the only Ni type is the Ni-creative LIE. Ni is a direction, a leading pattern, a projection forward of current trends, a vision, not an endpoint, so to make it about goals is to misunderstand its nature. IMO Especially when you consider which types do indeed keep an endpoint in mind.

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    yeah to set a goal is to make some form of judgement. ni is perception, it might inform a goal but it can never set one in of itself. Ni might explode a goal by pointing out some contradiction within it that makes it impossible or otherwise not worth it, but it leaves that to the other person. actually it can point out with its own criterion why the perception leads to a rational result, doing all the work for the other person, but the other person is always free to disagree. what makes Ni more pernicious is how it slips past their rational line of defenses. its the essence of "making the other person think they thought of what you wanted to convince them of" i.e.: thinking it was their own idea, because they did the rational work, over what was really an unconscious perception.. IEIs are actually the masters of this as far as I can tell, because they're not rational types and don't subordinate this urge to anything. when self directed the ni ego can posit for itself goals it knows to be contradictory, mainly because it understands things as non linear. there's really nothing that pins Ni down in such a simple way because it perceives contradictions or smooths them out via time which is orthogonal to how most people usually think. in other words, it lives "within" the contradiction, doesn't treat it as a problem in the same way most people do. this is especially true of ni base. for the ethically oriented intuitive, i.e.: EIE it does treat it as a "problem" to be solved, but it is still somewhere between, in contrast to how people usually diverge strongly to one side, for example, LSE. gulenko defines EIE as the type to "find" the problem, convergence to the limit, etc EIE is literally defined as the point of tension between opposites where the contradiction is centered. it focuses on it, sharpens it, LSE for example makes it their mission to resolve them rationally which involves a kind of pilling over them rather than digging them up. you can see this is in how LSE formulates issues, which always posit certain rational imperatives in the first place in order to limit the emergence of problems, which in turn can be solved by an application of pre-existing maxims. LSE is all about creating the all encompassing flow chart one can reference and in so doing solve every problem. if something can't be solved by the flow chart, it isn't considered to exist. it takes "there are no problems without solutions" quite literally
    Last edited by Bertrand; 08-10-2018 at 01:28 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthernRose View Post
    @silke sort of said it... it's like what I want may not matter... and I'm sick of passing last... or not having a turn at all.
    It's also intrusive, limitating, and telling me how to best "live" my life with this dual thing that sounds like a hate fest to me.

    And silke being Ni lead understood what I meant, when other types seem to have missed my point... this is disturbing... I mean I knew it, perceptions, valued functions, yada blah, but it's disturbing nontheless... it's what I've been fighting with my whole life... there is no escape.
    Oh shit, existential dread ongoing...
    I think your goals will matter to an dom as long as it lines up with their goals...which is true of every duality. A dual pair with common objectives is going to succeed where one that doesn't is likely to drift apart.

    What you want does matter though, at least not less than someone else...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Avebury View Post
    I think your goals will matter to an dom as long as it lines up with their goals...which is true of every duality. A dual pair with common objectives is going to succeed where one that doesn't is likely to drift apart.

    What you want does matter though, at least not less than someone else...
    I honestly doubt this, Ave.
    My life experience ifls proof that people don't give a flying fuck of what I want.
    Maybe if I had a larger sort of goal, but it's narrow and including anyone would just ruin what I want. It's not a 2 persons thing.
    I guess Anaïs Nin (IEI) had it right to never marry Henry Miller (SLE), so she could maintain her writing and not merely sustain his... even though she worked and believed very hard in what he did, she stayed away enough to protect the relationship they had. I think she was sometimes ressentful of him, but I'm not sure.
    I guess I don't want a dual... or I could just change type... who cares really?
    A bunch of peeps would happily see me as ESI, LII, or whatever, so why not...
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Avebury View Post
    @Myst I accidentally skipped over this question.

    I would say I need that help, but as Troll Nr 7 says, the future is never like we imagine. The question of concrete steps in acheiving a goal is a complex one, to say the least. My pov: reality is filled with limitations. You can't fly if you jump out the window, nor can money be produced without incentives, for example. The best way to acheive a goal is to select one that is realistic, within the laws of reality. I also have discovered, at least recently, the idea that "the shortest way between two points is a straight line" could be false. You get what you want when you stop pushing to get it. Unlike travelling in spacetime, where you just have to walk or drive or fly from point A to point B, human goals are more complex, they involve factors of internal happiness too, and often even if we get what we want it can be dissapointing.

    So I'd like to give you a clear answer, but it depends on the nature of the goal. Usually I get things done as soon as I visualize the steps in my head. Or else I can be stuck in a rut. Visualizing helps if it's something you've done before...however goals related to people are not linear, there are no clear steps to undertake to find love for example.

    There are also things which were always thought to be impossible, such as flight, which have been proven possible. So what gives? However flight, the aircraft, is not a result of magical thinking but of understanding the laws of reality and combining various areas of knowledge to sythnesize the aircraft...I struggle more in the realm of influencing relationships tbh. I think that is a different type of goal, related to people, and not to the laws of outside reality...so you have to be non-linear with people, unlike with things.


    ^^Word salad.

    TLDR: I don't struggle so much with realizing goals as I do influencing people/relationships.
    Thanks for the reply, no worries. Influencing people is Fe, not Te, yeah. I'm getting a Ni lead vibe from all this philosophising here , but I'm not sure.


    Quote Originally Posted by Avebury View Post
    This is where I got the idea ILIs want others to set goals for them:

    I always understood that ILI relies on SEE to invent goals while SEE relies on ILI to invent methods to acheive those goals...
    I dunno about that, ILI-Te friend sets her own goals just fine. She's actually decent at finding concrete steps too, she's more like she feels she lacks willpower to consistently do things and wants someone to kick her in the ass lol (she said so).


    Quote Originally Posted by NorthernRose View Post
    Okay, let me try again.
    "Goal" was not the point of this. The goal is what happens in the future, as an abstract projection happening in the present. The more concret part of making the present match the "future projection" is to come back to the present and do stuff.
    It's about Ni getting stuck in the future, and Se bringing it back to the present more than anything.
    I linked it with "goal" as I read above : from @Avebury... Perhaps I should have quoted before... meh, too late.
    I also couldn't accept someone setting goals for me...
    This is how I interpreted it originally too. How else would it be interpreted anyway...


    Quote Originally Posted by NorthernRose View Post
    And silke being Ni lead understood what I meant, when other types seem to have missed my point...
    I'm not Ni lead , but I thought I got it fine...


    Quote Originally Posted by NorthernRose View Post
    My life experience ifls proof that people don't give a flying fuck of what I want.
    Idk if you want me to ask about this but I'd say I think if you voice what you want audibly enough they would hear you. Ofc some people will ignore even that, but not all people are like that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by silke View Post
    That's pretty much how it happens, however, it is not as simple as Se refocusing that goal into concrete actions. Every Se and Si lead type is also "strategic" by Reinin so they have big goals to achieve of their own to the point of ignoring the goals of their Ni/Ne lead duals if those don't complement their own. This is flipped for rationals where it is the Ni-creative/demonstrative types who are the strategists of their dyad, and it creates some interesting distinctions in how these two different versions of Ni and Se interact.
    Can you say more on these distinctions please? I'd be really interested.

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    Quote Originally Posted by crAck View Post
    it is important to understand what Sol means when he talks about "look of brick". Sol is talking about Superego relating. when in a situation one feels insecure in, generally they will act like their Superego - mostly the Role, for rational that neednt be gotten into now.

    so if Fe is "warmth", Adam would be warm in unfamiliar situations/to unfamiliar people. Te, as opposite, is austere ("business" only). adam presents himself as Te. one could argue adam is just that comfortable with himself, that adam doesnt use his Superego shield because hes perfectly comfortable with himself, but if you really believe that id call you autistic.
    @crAck, I’m normally pretty secure in unfamiliar territory, but when I‘m not feeling secure, I definitely use Fe warmth to disarm people who could be possible threats. I do this until I can make a better assessment of their potentials and intentions. Then I revert to normal mode, whatever that is. Being a self-interested pushy jerk, maybe, who might care deeply about you but isn’t going to show it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I’m normally pretty secure in unfamiliar territory, but when I‘m not feeling secure, I definitely use Fe warmth to disarm people who could be possible threats.
    Role Fe is used with all new people as you wish to make better impression on them. While you allow youself to show "brick" (by your words) to them, and even feel nothing bad in this.
    In my understanding to supress strongly emotionality is also kind of insulting, as you express to people like they are noone to you, do not respect them.

    When I do selfy photos I try to express good emotions on them, to make more pleasant and good impression. You seems don't.

    I reduce emotions among closer people - as they will not be hurted by this, I trust they'll accept me in such form as our connections are stable and wide. Also when feel tired or in bad mood.

    You differ from me in this. Among T types base Te are the least possible to have your approach. What you say about yourself is closer to P-T types. Also base Ti types having role Fi have lesser expressive role emotionality and being introverts lesser care about other ones - they may look closer to "brick" more often.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Lol Sol typing Adam as Ti base and himself as Te base

    All that while Adam is way better at Fe

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    You'd have more success holding back a glacier than you would have convincing Sol to reconsider his type. That's a taboo.
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