Page 70 of 71 FirstFirst ... 2060666768697071 LastLast
Results 2,761 to 2,800 of 2805

Thread: Your typing of forum members

  1. #2761
    The Heart Marksman ruined's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    Colorado
    TIM
    IEI 4w3 sx/so
    Posts
    55
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Delilah is definitely Fi valuing

  2. #2762
    Xaiviay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    TIM
    SEI-Fe1 9w8 sx-first
    Posts
    436
    Mentioned
    65 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mrrrmaid View Post
    I think what you said here doesn't sound social last. From what I understand social last as, it feels sort of like you have a sort of blindness to wider community, which makes you make social blunders whether you want to or not. So Sx/Sp being syn-flow would make the mistake and possibly feel guilty / shame about it if they recognise it, whereas Sp/Sx would give less of a fuck. The bit in your spoiler actually made me think so/sx (taking your sexuality --->> expressing it in society in a way that doesn't make others uncomfortable). And I think Sx/So has the same sort of "don't give a fuck" attitude to Sx as Sp/Sx and the difference is in their awareness of its affect on society so probably not that.[/spoiler]
    Mrrrmaid <3 Thanks! That could be the case, I might not be social-last, then. But maybe I should explain some things about that...
    Up until about a year ago, I really didn't even see or care that I was making people so uncomfortable with my self-presentation, I didn't see what could be wrong with it. Lots of people harassed me, made fun of me, and even my friends complained...and it did sting, a little bit...but it didn't make me nearly as uncomfortable as censoring my self expression did, so I just kept "flaunting it", until I had my moral epiphany :

    I still want to present that way...but I've stopped for moral and practical reasons. I've realized how negative of an affect it tends to have on others, so I think it's a jerky thing to do if you're aware of that but you still do it anyway - Sort of like not showering for weeks, and then sitting on a crowded subway and stinking up the place, and not caring how anyone else feels about it. lol.

    Also, it really is hard to find a boyfriend who truly loves you for you, if you're shoving sexuality in his face 24/7. Like it's hard for them to even judge, their hormones just take control and they'll think they love you regardless (or they'll just lie, to get it). I want a good relationship. One day when I'm married, I can dress the way I'd really like to, around him at least, and I won't have to restrict myself quite as much.

    But like I mentioned, I do have some discomfort around other people's responses to me...and it is hard to tell if it's Instinctual-based, or just a part of having Fe in the ego! Haha

    Sx/Sp or So/Sx, hmm thank you I'll 'try on' the So/Sx typing for a while and see how it feels...it's possible.

  3. #2763

    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    8,672
    Mentioned
    748 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nebula View Post
    Sol is too emotionally invested in your type
    I'm "emotionally invested" in the truth and the typology.
    To type I take into account IR effects, the theory and my experience of watching people of different types.
    It's the main in the situation.

    I relate similarly to others too. For example, Chae got my criticism about claiming as Fi type and then had brains enough to agree with me.
    Also Delilah's issues I notice good due to IR, she provoked by being inadequately rude, meanwhile being weird she claims to be my holy dual (semidual earlier) lol

    -

    To think me as F type is cute, anyway.
    Develop the basis. It's funny.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

  4. #2764
    aka He Died With a Felafel Delilah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    TIM
    EII-Ne
    Posts
    1,342
    Mentioned
    78 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    ^ can the mods pls. take note of the above. I have not addressed this member and have explicitly asked him (months ago) to not address me. Thanks
    "Inasmuch as it is nothing but pure communicability, every face, even the most noble and beautiful, is always suspended on the edge of an abyss"

  5. #2765
    unrealistic dreamer turd mrrrmaid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    U.K.
    Posts
    241
    Mentioned
    43 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Xaiviay View Post
    Mrrrmaid <3 Thanks! That could be the case, I might not be social-last, then. But maybe I should explain some things about that...
    Up until about a year ago, I really didn't even see or care that I was making people so uncomfortable with my self-presentation, I didn't see what could be wrong with it. Lots of people harassed me, made fun of me, and even my friends complained...and it did sting, a little bit...but it didn't make me nearly as uncomfortable as censoring my self expression did, so I just kept "flaunting it", until I had my moral epiphany :

    I still want to present that way...but I've stopped for moral and practical reasons. I've realized how negative of an affect it tends to have on others, so I think it's a jerky thing to do if you're aware of that but you still do it anyway - Sort of like not showering for weeks, and then sitting on a crowded subway and stinking up the place, and not caring how anyone else feels about it. lol.

    Also, it really is hard to find a boyfriend who truly loves you for you, if you're shoving sexuality in his face 24/7. Like it's hard for them to even judge, their hormones just take control and they'll think they love you regardless (or they'll just lie, to get it). I want a good relationship. One day when I'm married, I can dress the way I'd really like to, around him at least, and I won't have to restrict myself quite as much.

    But like I mentioned, I do have some discomfort around other people's responses to me...and it is hard to tell if it's Instinctual-based, or just a part of having Fe in the ego! Haha

    Sx/Sp or So/Sx, hmm thank you I'll 'try on' the So/Sx typing for a while and see how it feels...it's possible.
    hahah okay wait this sounds more like Sx/Sp with Fe maybe

    my official vote is not sx last either way
    "I take back like half of the exclamation points.....they make me look....eager to please. Which I AM....but I don't want anyone to KNOW that"
    - Carrie Fisher

  6. #2766
    Xaiviay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    TIM
    SEI-Fe1 9w8 sx-first
    Posts
    436
    Mentioned
    65 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Venus Rose View Post
    I think I may relate to what you are trying to say. Do you mind going into more detail? Only as much as you are comfortable with.
    Okie dokie, I tried not to make it TMI, but it is kinda NSFW:
    I like dressing in overtly sexual clothes, designing them according to my taste in aesthetics, making them, and wearing them. It makes me feel more alive, invigorated, motivated, and happy. I care more about having a good sex life with the right partner, than anything else, it's never far from my mind, so it's most natural to dress in accordance.

    I'd probably really enjoy having sex in front of a crowd, the idea actually feels energizing. Or 'performing' in front of a crowd like a Burlesque dancer or something! Designing the clothes and dance according to my tastes. It'd feel good to know my self expression had a powerful impact on other people...

    I guess maybe I'm overly fixated on sex Aha! Regardless of where Sx is in my instinctual stack...

    Edit: @Venus Rose go ahead and read my last reply to mrrrmaid too, if you want, it has more
    Well, this is how they explain the SX-last: http://www.theenneagramuniverse.com/...stackings.html

    (It's the first one).
    Oh, good descriptions! Well...I really don't relate to that at all... So, I guess sp/so is going out the window, at least.

  7. #2767
    Xaiviay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    TIM
    SEI-Fe1 9w8 sx-first
    Posts
    436
    Mentioned
    65 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Venus Rose View Post
    @Xaviay this is just based on superficial impressions, so I may be wrong, but how do you feel about SX in the secondary position (So/Sx)? You seem to approach it in a much more playful and not so neurotic, way. And your concerns about seem to be in the social realm.
    Well thank you! I feel pretty neurotic about it lol, but I don't wanna go into any more detail. You and @mrrrmaid got me considering So/Sx though, thanks I'll think about it for a while

  8. #2768
    Aramas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    1,084
    Mentioned
    70 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    This forum is really increasing its entropy.
    Perhaps one day it will live.

  9. #2769
    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Finland
    TIM
    SEI
    Posts
    1,590
    Mentioned
    111 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Ok, I just joined Pinterest. Seems really neat. Good way to collect and discover art. Here's mine.

  10. #2770

    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    TIM
    SLE.Wait...Shit, EII
    Posts
    274
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    what's my type ?

  11. #2771

    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    8,672
    Mentioned
    748 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by noaydi View Post
    what's my type ?
    make a video
    this may help you to overcome traumas after wrong typings
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

  12. #2772

    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    8,672
    Mentioned
    748 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    The example of opposing with Fe type (SEI, most probably) from base Te.

    @Delilah
    > I'm being harassed by Sol. (post)

    You are lieing again. What should be natural for you. And is the most expected among your Fe type which tend to spit on the objective reality.

    I generally and in the last message to you acted in the border of rules as criticized your concrete behavior and opinions. I relate to you in the borders of justice and reason, unlike you who act stupidly and morally inadequately.
    I answered you there by the forum's theme and in the context of the discussion. It's you who started negatively to discuss me outside of the theme there, and on your lie I've replied appropriately.

    It's you who 1st made direct personal insult against me, what was against the forum rules. In this aspect I then relate to you in not worse degree. You did unmotivated the personal harassment against me and then got what you deserved, not more. And now you are whining about what you do yourself to others or more correctly to say - about the lesser, as direct insulting which is common for you and your Fe types is often redundant.

    P.S.
    I saw not a single time when F types dislike logical critique, act morally inadequately, in return get the appropriate and similar style and then whine about this representing themselves as innocent victims. Common F types manipulations + the rejecting to think logically instead of emotional reactions where that would be more correct. Types with different T-F values get this with more probability.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

  13. #2773
    vesstheastralsilky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Location
    Solomon's bed
    TIM
    SEI-Si
    Posts
    649
    Mentioned
    23 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    The example of opposing with Fe type (SEI, most probably) from base Te.

    @Delilah
    > I'm being harassed by Sol. (post)

    You are lieing again. What should be natural for you. And is the most expected among your Fe type which tend to spit on the objective reality.

    I generally and in the last message to you acted in the border of rules as criticized your concrete behavior and opinions. I relate to you in the borders of justice and reason, unlike you who act stupidly and morally inadequately.
    I answered you there by the forum's theme and in the context of the discussion. It's you who started negatively to discuss me outside of the theme there, and on your lie I've replied appropriately.

    It's you who 1st made direct personal insult against me, what was against the forum rules. In this aspect I then relate to you in not worse degree. You did unmotivated the personal harassment against me and then got what you deserved, not more. And now you are whining about what you do yourself to others or more correctly to say - about the lesser, as direct insulting which is common for you and your Fe types is often redundant.

    P.S.
    I saw not a single time when F types dislike logical critique, act morally inadequately, in return get the appropriate and similar style and then whine about this representing themselves as innocent victims. Common F types manipulations + the rejecting to think logically instead of emotional reactions where that would be more correct. Types with different T-F values get this with more probability.
    Sol, you take your rudeness way too far. Just because someone is a type doesn't mean they don't use all other functions. You should know this. Now settle down and leave Delilah alone. She can type herself however she wants. It's a free world.
    ~* astralsilky

    Si Fe Xi = SEI-Si ISFP THE AESTHETE
    MBTI & Socionics Questionnaires INXX
    Intertype Relations Type SEI-Si
    Lytov Filatova Portrait Type SEI
    (Gulenko Portrait Type SEE, also XSFX)

    MBTI since 1990
    Socionics since 2000
    4w5 that morphed into a 3w2 sx/sp

  14. #2774

    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    2,821
    Mentioned
    176 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by vesstheastralsilky View Post
    She can type herself however she wants. It's a free world.
    Not if Socionics is supposed to be this super objective thing.

    I think Sol is partly right in that he has the right to speak "objectively" of matters that are supposed to be objective. To not able to discuss it may indeed be censorship. We are objectively discussing the "subjects" that are actual people, which the matter of discussing it being ethical or not is another discussion that's besides the point.

    The problem is, where is the objectivity in this? How are we supposed to decide what is objective or not? How do we escape from the fact that the "researchers" like Sol himself aren't biased by his own psychology, his own emotions, his own expectations, his own biases?

    This problem can be solved if we assume that human beings are capable of rational thought, and therefore we can arrive at objectivity via rational arguments. The only way to know whether something is objective or not, is through rational arguments. We make the best case for deciding when something is objective, and when something is not.

    The entire problem, then, is that the entire argument of what makes something objective or not, is missing. Without rational arguments, they're arbitrary subjective opinions.

    So how do we know when something is objective? That can be only created by rational arguments.

  15. #2775
    The Heart Marksman ruined's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    Colorado
    TIM
    IEI 4w3 sx/so
    Posts
    55
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    stop all this arguing and validate me

  16. #2776
    fka lungs ashlesha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    TIM
    Fi/Te 6 sp/sx
    Posts
    13,504
    Mentioned
    712 Post(s)
    Tagged
    4 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Switchblades View Post
    stop all this arguing and validate me
    Your presence in chatbox has seemed perfectly consistent with iei to me.

  17. #2777
    Muddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    TIM
    LSI 6w5 sp
    Posts
    1,961
    Mentioned
    104 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    solololol

  18. #2778

    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    8,672
    Mentioned
    748 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    @vesstheastralsilky
    In that message you've said that do not want to hear opinions of others about types of people near you. So you do not seek the truth about their types. While you are on the typology forum and lie to yourself that has an interest in the truth about types. If you lie even to yourself, then it's doubtful your opinions are meaningful for others.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

  19. #2779
    vesstheastralsilky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Location
    Solomon's bed
    TIM
    SEI-Si
    Posts
    649
    Mentioned
    23 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    @vesstheastralsilky
    In that message you've said that do not want to hear opinions of others about types of people near you. So you do not seek the truth about their types. While you are on the typology forum and lie to yourself that has an interest in the truth about types. If you lie even to yourself, then it's doubtful your opinions are meaningful for others.
    I don't know how you started on this creative "lying" kick but you can stop taking your issues out on other forum members. Of course I am serious about the truth of types. Why else would I be here?

    Please don't fight with me Sol.
    Last edited by vesstheastralsilky; 12-05-2018 at 12:15 AM.
    ~* astralsilky

    Si Fe Xi = SEI-Si ISFP THE AESTHETE
    MBTI & Socionics Questionnaires INXX
    Intertype Relations Type SEI-Si
    Lytov Filatova Portrait Type SEI
    (Gulenko Portrait Type SEE, also XSFX)

    MBTI since 1990
    Socionics since 2000
    4w5 that morphed into a 3w2 sx/sp

  20. #2780
    I leave you a beloved future. ApeironStella's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Alcor's Mindscape
    TIM
    LII-Ne 9w1 972 sp/so
    Posts
    414
    Mentioned
    32 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by vesstheastralsilky View Post
    I don't know how you started on this creative "lying" kick but you can stop taking your issues out on other forum members. Of course I am serious about the truth of types. Why else would I be here?
    Just imagine that you are talking to some cult preacher about One True Way To Type with all the shady robes and everything while reading his posts, as that's honestly how he comes off to me. That's the level to take him seriously, though that whole "you sinners who does not know The Way" thing honestly is something to get under check, including the name calling.



  21. #2781
    hag's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    1,708
    Mentioned
    277 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    its kinda funny how sol is acting consistent with jung's portrait of an unhealthy extraverted thinking type. white knighting for the Truth

  22. #2782
    Number 9 large's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Baking bread
    TIM
    ILE 7w6 Sx/Sp
    Posts
    1,998
    Mentioned
    182 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Venus Rose View Post
    To me respecting someone’s wishes is the bottom line. You do not drag it out (whatever conflict or conversation you are having) if the other person clearly doesn’t wish to be a part of it. Specially when it comes to types and self-types, you do not disrespectfully keep publicly typing them, insulting their wishes and not giving basic respect to them as a human being. I have seen it happen more than I would like.
    Yea god forbid to get typed in a "your typing of forum members" thread on a socionics forum.

    We should all ban Sol for using socionics

  23. #2783
    FarDraft's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    TIM
    NiTe² 5w6 Sp/Sx
    Posts
    57
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    How do we claim a theory to be objective? According to the Cambridge dictionary, something that is objective is "based on real facts and not influenced by personal beliefs or feelings". Then the question becomes, what is a fact? Consulting the same dictionary once again, we have that a fact is something that is known to have happened or to exist, especially something for which proof exists, or about which there is information. Proof of a statement can come from two places: a logical argument built upon firm axioms or empirical, reproducible testing that controls for alternative possibilities. Socionics does neither of these. Firstly, there are multiple bases - model A, model G, Reinin, etc. Secondly, the means of typing is not settled - should we type via IR, IE, VI, high level descriptions, profiles...? Thirdly, the theory is not derived from an empirical model of facts but rather the theory itself is constructed from (inconsistent) principles, meaning that any empirical evidence in support of it would be as good as confirmation bias. Fourthly, any rigour being developed in the theory would be futile since the theory is already so detailed; hence, should we try to create a logically consistent model, we would have to break a number of the systems already put in place such as the subtype system or the descriptions of the functions, not that these are firm to begin with. Fifthly, a theory is only as useful as the people who use it. Thus, even if the model were completely logically consistent, there would still be an interpretation of the system for each person who used it, rendering the system useless for precise modelling.

    Because of all this, the only use that socionics has is as a database of patterns and trends that people have observed. They are high-level enough to where general archetypes of thought categorization exist but also not so general so as to be personally useless in developing skills you are not good at. Fighting about who is what type is pointless since each person has an interpretation of the system anyway. And unless it strays so radically far from the norm, no one can say it's incorrect since the foundation is shaky nevertheless. I would like to say that there is a "correct" way of viewing the system, but I can't. What I can say, however, is that if we can all come to a consensus with our different interpretations, then we all gain something both in socionics and in personal understanding of other people. That's the only useful thing about socionics.

    That's just my two cents. Feel free to disagree.
    Last edited by FarDraft; 12-05-2018 at 06:04 AM.
    ----- FarDraft, 2018 | ILI-2Te | 5w6 3w4 8w7 Sp/Sx | INTJ

  24. #2784
    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Finland
    TIM
    SEI
    Posts
    1,590
    Mentioned
    111 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FarDraft View Post
    How do we claim a theory to be objective? According to the Cambridge dictionary, something that is objective is "based on real facts and not influenced by personal beliefs or feelings". Then the question becomes, what is a fact? Consulting the same dictionary once again, we have that a fact is something that is known to have happened or to exist, especially something for which proof exists, or about which there is information. Proof of a statement can come from two places: a logical argument built upon firm axioms or empirical, reproducible testing that controls for alternative possibilities. Socionics does neither of these. Firstly, there are multiple bases - model A, model G, Reinin, etc. Secondly, the means of typing is not settled - should we type via IR, IE, VI, high level descriptions, profiles...? Thirdly, the theory is not derived from an empirical model of facts but rather the theory itself is constructed from (inconsistent) principles, meaning that any empirical evidence in support of it would be as good as confirmation bias. Fourthly, any rigour being developed in the theory would be futile since the theory is already so detailed; hence, should we try to create a logically consistent model, we would have to break a number of the systems already put in place such as the subtype system or the descriptions of the functions, not that these are firm to begin with. Fifthly, a theory is only as useful as the people who use it. Thus, even if the model were completely logically consistent, there would still be an interpretation of the system for each person who used it, rendering the system useless for precise modelling.

    Because of all this, the only use that socionics has is as a database of patterns and trends that people have observed. They are high-level enough to where general archetypes of thought categorization exist but also not so general so as to be personally useless in developing skills you are not good at. Fighting about who is what type is pointless since each person has an interpretation of the system anyway. And unless it strays so radically far from the norm, no one can say it's incorrect since the foundation is shaky nevertheless. I would like to say that there is a "correct" way of viewing the system, but I can't. What I can say, however, is that if we can all come to a consensus with our different interpretations, then we all gain something both in socionics and in personal understanding of other people. That's the only useful thing about socionics.

    That's just my two cents. Feel free to disagree.
    The phenomenon of types creates so much redundancy that it is possible to learn to see the types, functions etc. There are inner, psychological objects, that are not just a matter of opinion. But it takes time and yes it is challenging.

  25. #2785
    aka Penny Dreadful Feathers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Behind your tonsils
    TIM
    Artfully obscene
    Posts
    488
    Mentioned
    46 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Switchblades View Post
    stop all this arguing and validate me
    Kate Bush/10, my love for you has skyrocketed thanks to that profile picture.

    Stop all this arguing and validate me x2
    BRB, 🌼 Pushing Daisies 🌼

  26. #2786
    The Heart Marksman ruined's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    Colorado
    TIM
    IEI 4w3 sx/so
    Posts
    55
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Feathers View Post
    Kate Bush/10, my love for you has skyrocketed thanks to that profile picture.

    Stop all this arguing and validate me x2
    Yeah shes amazing and I think you're IEI too! Maybe EIE...

  27. #2787
    FarDraft's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    TIM
    NiTe² 5w6 Sp/Sx
    Posts
    57
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    The phenomenon of types creates so much redundancy that it is possible to learn to see the types, functions etc. There are inner, psychological objects, that are not just a matter of opinion. But it takes time and yes it is challenging.
    First, the very fact that there is so much redundancy would lead to the system being inconsistent since the redundant material is established theory. Hence, to cut through it would be to deny aspects of the theory that are already created while simultaneously keeping some aspects based on what you "feel" is correct. Second, even if there are inner psychological objects, who says that they can be modelled by socionics? I won't disagree that it takes and and is challenging to understand people and how they function, but to use that as a justification for an inconsistent theory is equivalent to justifying all of a god's actions because they're "mysterious" and "difficult to understand". If even those who are experts can't agree with established theories, then the theory isn't challenging, it's wrong. Patterns and trends are all that can remain.
    ----- FarDraft, 2018 | ILI-2Te | 5w6 3w4 8w7 Sp/Sx | INTJ

  28. #2788
    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Finland
    TIM
    SEI
    Posts
    1,590
    Mentioned
    111 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FarDraft View Post
    First, the very fact that there is so much redundancy would lead to the system being inconsistent since the redundant material is established theory. Hence, to cut through it would be to deny aspects of the theory that are already created while simultaneously keeping some aspects based on what you "feel" is correct. Second, even if there are inner psychological objects, who says that they can be modelled by socionics? I won't disagree that it takes and and is challenging to understand people and how they function, but to use that as a justification for an inconsistent theory is equivalent to justifying all of a god's actions because they're "mysterious" and "difficult to understand". If even those who are experts can't agree with established theories, then the theory isn't challenging, it's wrong. Patterns and trends are all that can remain.
    Well I simply meant that things can be checked in many ways. When you learn socionics you might have problems typing yourself by functions alone, but you can also check it by the relationships. You can also check things by how you react to certain functions. It really is a matter of observing this for some years and working and dating alot to really expose yourself to it.

    No-one says that inner psychological things can be modelled by socionics. It is simply a fact that can be checked.

    We rely on psychological observation all the time in everyday life. Some people are better at this than others. If the psyche has regular cognitive patterns that form types, it would make sense that these were discovered at some point by observant people. And what then? Reject it, because it can't be tested in laboratory, or look for yourself and try to see it.

    If you only had Jung, then I could agree on the skepticism, but socionics really gives you ways to test this.

  29. #2789
    Aramas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    1,084
    Mentioned
    70 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FarDraft View Post
    First, the very fact that there is so much redundancy would lead to the system being inconsistent since the redundant material is established theory. Hence, to cut through it would be to deny aspects of the theory that are already created while simultaneously keeping some aspects based on what you "feel" is correct. Second, even if there are inner psychological objects, who says that they can be modelled by socionics? I won't disagree that it takes and and is challenging to understand people and how they function, but to use that as a justification for an inconsistent theory is equivalent to justifying all of a god's actions because they're "mysterious" and "difficult to understand". If even those who are experts can't agree with established theories, then the theory isn't challenging, it's wrong. Patterns and trends are all that can remain.
    Psychological type is holographic. Meow.

  30. #2790
    portrait of white Cicio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    TIM
    sp/sx 5w4
    Posts
    82
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Simpler broader traits of sociotypes should have a higher priority on forum typings so that I dunno, people can actually discuss and argue the basics first before throwing out random ass traits that are far more detailed and unused than most people are capable of discussing. There's no point in arguing about types unless you start with dichotomies like I/E, N/S, T/F, P/J. Though if you use visual identification then it's more difficult to talk about lol, so just maybe it would be good to have a separate VI (even if it your official type for the person) type from the basic socionics dichotomy-based type.

  31. #2791
    FarDraft's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    TIM
    NiTe² 5w6 Sp/Sx
    Posts
    57
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cicio View Post
    Simpler broader traits of sociotypes should have a higher priority on forum typings so that I dunno, people can actually discuss and argue the basics first before throwing out random ass traits that are far more detailed and unused than most people are capable of discussing. There's no point in arguing about types unless you start with dichotomies like I/E, N/S, T/F, P/J. Though if you use visual identification then it's more difficult to talk about lol, so just maybe it would be good to have a separate VI (even if it your official type for the person) type from the basic socionics dichotomy-based type.
    Part of the issue is that there isn't a clearly delineated purpose of socionics on this forum. Is it meant to be a personality test? A method to determine one's cognition? The connection between behavioural traits and visual identification? It tries to do all three and more yet fails (imo) because the subsystems conflicts with one another and the underlying purpose of the theory is gone.

    Personally, I think that socionics should be about two things: cognition and intertype relations. We define a system of 16 archetypes with particular cognitive preferences and resulting cognitive styles. We then consider, from a purely cognitive perspective, how types would interact based on those preferences. High level behaviours get in the way because of emergent behaviour. I think this should be it's purpose because personality-wise, big 5 is already the standard model. Moreover, it would allow a stronger foundation since Jung's original thoughts were cognitive in nature coupled with some behavioural consequences.

    The other option would be for socionics to be a higher level personality system like MBTI, but its depth would be lost, which would be unfortunate, even if it's not scientifically substantiated.

    EDIT: I should note that by "interact" I mean areas where types would clash and construct from a cognitive perspective. For example, Se bases have Ni DS, so when speaking to an Ni type they may get what they want/need. Rather than a behavioural interaction.
    ----- FarDraft, 2018 | ILI-2Te | 5w6 3w4 8w7 Sp/Sx | INTJ

  32. #2792

    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    8,672
    Mentioned
    748 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FarDraft View Post
    Part of the issue is that there isn't a clearly delineated purpose of socionics on this forum. Is it meant to be a personality test? A method to determine one's cognition? The connection between behavioural traits and visual identification? It tries to do all three and more yet fails (imo) because
    Because the understanding of the typology and related begins with the correct understanding of own type, which is LII, but not ILI like you think. Without this you see regular bs and then seek for bs rationalizations.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

  33. #2793
    Pano Lou's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    A mystery
    TIM
    SEE - Se
    Posts
    225
    Mentioned
    31 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    @Sol if you think you're some authority on typology, then why have you not got your type displayed on your profile? What purpose does hiding it serve?
    100% real SLI. Do not question.

    <<Under construction >>

  34. #2794
    Landlord of the Dog and Duck Subteigh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    TIM
    EII-Ne Sp/So
    Posts
    15,782
    Mentioned
    279 Post(s)
    Tagged
    4 Thread(s)

    Default

    If Socionics was a cult, we wouldn't be so skilled at making valid-sounding arguments showing how others act like fanatics. Those who say that Socionics teaches nothing but falsehood also cannot explain how its adherents always show great ingenuity at managing to be unpalatable to all whenever they converse. Socionics is not a cult.

  35. #2795
    Feeling fucking fantastic golden's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Second story
    TIM
    EIE
    Posts
    3,603
    Mentioned
    216 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Plenty of petty squabbling and invalidating of others can happen within cults. However, even if Socionics were a full-fledged cult, it would have to be a low-stakes cult, as I’ve pointed out before. No one is asking us to pay for things, to turn against our families, to work for little to no money, to recruit new believers, and the like.

    We have no charismatic leader, living or dead. We’re not being exploited. Brainwashed—I give you that one.
    LSI: “I still can’t figure out Pinterest.”

    Me: “It’s just, like, idea boards.”

    LSI: “I don’t have ideas.”

  36. #2796
    Landlord of the Dog and Duck Subteigh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    TIM
    EII-Ne Sp/So
    Posts
    15,782
    Mentioned
    279 Post(s)
    Tagged
    4 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by golden View Post
    We have no charismatic leader, living or dead. We’re not being exploited. Brainwashed—I give you that one.
    I'm sorry to say this (although I feel nobody should be above criticism): I know I speak for many dozens of people when I say that I find such remarks deeply insulting to the memory of Aušra Augustinavičiūtėčiūtėčiūtėčiūtė, whose name is never far from our lips.

    How dare you insult our leader! Next you'll be saying her teachings were in error!

  37. #2797
    aka Penny Dreadful Feathers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Behind your tonsils
    TIM
    Artfully obscene
    Posts
    488
    Mentioned
    46 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Stratiyevskaya did nothing wrong.
    BRB, 🌼 Pushing Daisies 🌼

  38. #2798
    Mio Q's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    TIM
    I like bugs
    Posts
    215
    Mentioned
    25 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Lol socionics isn't a cult. It's just an obsessive hobby.

  39. #2799
    spiritual aggressor/volcel Troll Nr 007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Playing with your head
    TIM
    Ne-ILE-C 7(93?)
    Posts
    3,586
    Mentioned
    152 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Speaking of leaders. I still have functioning Discord server around which has a channel called "The temple of Gulenko".
    You can suggest an alternative type based on video found in HERE

    extrospection > introspection



  40. #2800
    Aramas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    1,084
    Mentioned
    70 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BFGDoomer View Post
    I think i might be SLI. The problem is i'm very good at rationalizing almost every perspective and to create groundworks for every socionics position in relation to the IE/IR. I 'play' certain types to see how they fit and discover modes of thinking that correspond with types. I must have RP'ed almost every type in the socion by now
    Same! Lol! Except I'm not necessarily SLI.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •