Your typing of forum members

[Adam Strange]

Hmm, well now I am discussing your type @Adam Strange. This LIE/SLE question has been interesting. I don't really know many LIEs (any LIEs?) in real life, though I do have my LSE uncle. Expat on this forum seemed very LIE to me, and when he acted as moderator I perceived his rulings as being very Fi-focused (concerned with the ethical character of a person, ethical nature of offenses, sometimes wrathful--all reflecting constricted but valued Fi). I've seen this side to my LSE uncle as well, though he's on a constant path to improve his Fi and has EII wife and ESI mother who are his constant "guides" in this, as well as probably some professional development stuff from work. If LSE uncle moderated a forum, I imagine though he'd have no tolerance for many of the things Expat had tolerance for. LSE uncle doesn't like "assholes" and I imagine would ban the lot of them. And he likes civil behavior only.

But with you @Adam Strange, it's true that I don't see this thing going on. But I'm so bad at explaining this "thing" that my comments here are a bit useless.

I don't see a question here. I see what might be a comparison between my behavior and LIE Expat's or your LSE uncle's behavior, in which I don't seem to you to act on my subjective Fi feelings as much as they seemed to, or might.

I'm going to assume that this difference in perceived behavior is the "thing" you mentioned, and is why you question my type.

Actually, my gut-level responses are very similar to your uncle's and are motivated by the same things that you said motivated Expat. There are people who have posted here whose behavior crossed a line in my book, like CrazedRat, for example, and if they consistently can't display kindness and decency and respect towards others, then they shouldn't be allowed to play with the group. I confess that my reaction to what Crazedrat posted was visceral and personal.
However, I value discourse and I recognize that not everyone shares my values, and in a world with different people in it, there is a need for clearly defined standards of behavior. While you were writing your post, in fact, I was reading the Forum Rules.

As for why you don't see this arbitrary display of Fi-based reactions in me the way you did in Expat or in your uncle, I'd ask if either of them ever had 25 very different people working for them? I have (it's fewer right now), and I quickly recognized that if you demonstrate respect and kindness toward others, you can cause others to demonstrate them in turn, and if they don't get that, then they get to play somewhere else, but not with the adults.

[Bertrand]

that's all Se Fe militant leveling: everyone outwardly act nice, or we will exile you

beta quadral complex. everyone should read that and evaluate the various responses to happenings lately with it in mind and see what it reveals

[squark]

My statement of "Is this a failure of Ti?" referred to the discussion between @squark and @niffer, in which squark claimed that she 100% never shared PM's (referring to a part of her own self-defined system of behavior), and then niffer immediately referred to an example where squark did share PM's.

squark then stepped back and insisted that sharing PM's was not a bannable offense, but that was not in question. What was in question was whether or not squark violated her own, self-defined Ti system of behavior. It seems she did. And that is why I asked if that was a failure of Ti.

WOAH. WHat the hell?!!! I have NEVER shared PMs. That is a complete fabrication. She was talking about something different - a thread with some arguments where someone else got banned, but still nothing I said in that thread was a bannable offense either.

In other words I told her I didn't share PMs, and she said that I did other bannable things. I said I may have been offensive, and gone on the offensive against people, but I still didn't commit any bannable offenses.

[Myst]

@inumbra, since you quoted me, let me respond.

I agree that Ti alone would make a system based on behavior and would ignore personal slights. But Star Trek's Spock is the only individual who has Ti alone. Lol. Everyone else has some Fi and some Fe.

My statement of "Is this a failure of Ti?" referred to the discussion between @squark and @niffer, in which squark claimed that she 100% never shared PM's (referring to a part of her own self-defined system of behavior), and then niffer immediately referred to an example where squark did share PM's.

squark then stepped back and insisted that sharing PM's was not a bannable offense, but that was not in question. What was in question was whether or not squark violated her own, self-defined Ti system of behavior. It seems she did. And that is why I asked if that was a failure of Ti.

I was just poking fun at her, and it was meant to get her to lighten up and see that Ti systems involving humans only work perfectly when they have some flexibility.

Lol good point about Spock. What kind of flexibility are you thinking of btw? While keeping logical consistency? Or?

Incidentally, I happen to agree that squark didn't commit any bannable offenses. From my standpoint, she was just providing evidence.

OK well I was talking about her where you responded to me that the stuff I noted is a bannable offense indeed.

If other one continues to slander you with any disagreements about you after you repeatedly asked them to stop - that is banworthy offense on most decent forums! As people should to have pleasant communication. It's the ultimate goal for what all decent forums are made!

It was not simple disagreement but actually personal remarks and bullshit with distorted facts and lies about me - hence my word usage of "slander".

[Myst]

all introverted functions being subjective are speculative
intuition is speculative in the degree it's subjective. as I've pointed logics can be speculative too

Nope, the speculativeness you see in LIIs is the Ne, not the Ti.

[niffer]

Well this kind of drama seems healthy to me at least lol idk

[niffer]

I have NEVER shared PMs. That is a complete fabrication.

r u sure?

[marooned]

Actually, my gut-level responses are very similar to your uncle's and are motivated by the same things that you said motivated Expat. There are people who have posted here whose behavior crossed a line in my book, like CrazedRat, for example, and if they consistently can't display kindness and decency and respect towards others, then they shouldn't be allowed to play with the group. I confess that my reaction to what Crazedrat posted was visceral and personal.
However, I value discourse and I recognize that not everyone shares my values, and in a world with different people in it, there is a need for clearly defined standards of behavior. While you were writing your post, in fact, I was reading the Forum Rules.

Yeah, and I can't counter that.

As for why you don't see this arbitrary display of Fi-based reactions in me the way you did in Expat or in your uncle, I'd ask if either of them ever had 25 very different people working for them? I have (it's fewer right now), and I quickly recognized that if you demonstrate respect and kindness to others, you can cause others to demonstrate it in turn, and if they don't get that, then they get to play somewhere else, but not with the adults.

I don't think it comes down to that really. There are no condition-sets that are going to be consistent across the board. People are too complex for that. I agree that working with a lot of people in a leadership position often forces a person to manage that in certain ways if they are to be successful. But there are still a variety of ways to do it.

Although this kind of thing is reminding me again of LSE uncle who is very much about kindness/respect in all work relationships and does manage a lot of people. But that's also the acceptable professional culture in most large workplaces in my region. It's the norm.

I do question your type, but it's not something in which I'm like "there's no way Adam Strange is X type!" Wouldn't that be lovely and full of certainty. If only.

One difficulty for me about considering SLE, is you don't seem very irrational.

[squark]

r u sure?

Yes. I have already answered this. I am sure I have not shared PMs.

You know, now that you've accused me of this stupid lie there are people who think it actually happened. And it takes pressure off of you having to defend your own actions. But that was the whole point, wasn't it?

[Myst]

I'm not emotionally expressive/dramatic enough.

That's more EIE anyway than IEI

I prefer to hide my emotions to people until I really learn to know them. I relate to ILI descriptions more than IEI. The ILI is spot-on for me. I am more logical/intellectual than the average woman (I get told so by people irl) which is probably because I am logical. Also I'm not as rowdy as alot (all?) of beta people are. For this reason I like SEE more than SLE. When people are too much like that it can make me uncomfortable. I like more subtle and weird humor rather than Fe stuff.
And I am an extremely poor small talker and conversationalist.
I relate alot to this

the second paragraph im unsure of, but the other stuff yes

When I ask others for things it's most often curiosity about hearing their thoughts and often to have an argument about it if i have another opinion rather than "oh i dont know pls help"

You seem plenty rowdy in a way I don't see ILIs doing it

You noted before that you want to hear answers to "why's". But yes like I said you do have your own logic too with which you like to get argumentative, some IEIs do that (And it can be fun arguing with them)

[niffer]

Yes. I have already answered this. I am sure I have not shared PMs.

You know, now that you've accused me of this stupid lie there are people who think it actually happened. And it takes pressure off of you having to defend your own actions. But that was the whole point, wasn't it?

:> who knows lmao

[maniac]

You seem plenty rowdy in a way I don't see ILIs doing it

?? im not irl anyways and im uncomfortable with people like that. well i can like loud people with weird dark humor but when people are like "PUSSSY, DICK HAHAHA" or "unsophisticated" (lol) humor like that im like please stop. maybe thats more alpha though. I like it when people are expressive and humorous with weird humor and no one is laughing, everyone's like what the hell is wrong with this person, that makes me laugh. and i think thats gamma-like. i have weird humour but im too scared to openly express it around people like that unless i know them well, so i appreciate people who have the guts to do it

i was taking a taxi with a guy the other day and it was pretty quiet during the whole ride, then the guy showed me a meme and i acted disinterested cause it wasnt funny, and i made this scenario up in my head because i was wondering what the driver is thinking, i was thinking, what if he thinks im a prostitute and the only thing this guy has to say who paid for me to chat me up is show me a meme, thats so lame, then i laughed like the whole ride


i think thats more gamma humor

[Adam Strange]

Yes. I have already answered this. I am sure I have not shared PMs.

You know, now that you've accused me of this stupid lie there are people who think it actually happened. And it takes pressure off of you having to defend your own actions. But that was the whole point, wasn't it?

Hi, @squark.
I apologize for assuming you shared PM's. I didn't check the thread itself, and that was wrong of me. I'm sorry, and next time I'll check the evidence before assuming anything.

[niffer]

@squark waifu chan

why does this bother you so much? You seem to be getting emotional..

[Myst]

@squark waifu chan

why does this bother you so much? You seem to be getting emotional..

Because she knows she did commit a wrong, which I mentioned above. At post #1730.

[WinnieW]

Nope, the speculativeness you see in LIIs is the Ne, not the Ti.

I agree, Myst.

I would name it speculation. It's the perception of similar patterns in different situations and objects.

[Myst]

@niffer (and everyone) And maybe you say it's healthier drama now (with people showing emotions finally), well I can't show anything other than some resentment in an indirect way because I will just never understand why the fuck squark had to go after me like that, which drama started first with her putting a Like on someone else's post that was hostile towards me. Out of the blue, after I was being explicitly supportive towards her only a bit of time before that. And then she claims here now that she doesn't do such an emotionally motivated thing. Idiotic hypocrite shit...

And idc that I'm mentioning her when I'm not supposed to, because yeah of course she mentioned too me before in other posts..... why on earth was I surprised even a little bit at how she did start doing that, breaking her own request. She only tries to behave properly - regarding this matter on the forum at least - if it benefits her, but my problem really is just her big incredible hypocrisy about it.

And yes, I can back up all my claims with actual and direct facts.

The end.

[niffer]

Since I never really hang out with white ppl in irl this is pretty entertaining for me

[squark]

@squark
why does this bother you so much? You seem to be getting emotional..

It calls into question my character and integrity, and yes, I did indeed get emotional regarding that because that's all that really matters in a person, nothing else does. So yeah, it was insulting. But it's not going to affect how I take other things you might say, things that might have value. In other words, I'm not going to hold a grudge over it. Same way I reacted to Bertrand doing similar. Or would you rather I hold a grudge, like you wanted me to with him?

[niffer]

Well except I’m seeing HERO today <3

[squark]

Hi, @squark.
I apologize for assuming you shared PM's. I didn't check the thread itself, and that was wrong of me. I'm sorry, and next time I'll check the evidence before assuming anything.

It's ok, no hard feelings. Thank you for the apology.

[niffer]

It calls into question my character and integrity, and yes, I did indeed get emotional regarding that because that's all that really matters in a person, nothing else does. So yeah, it was insulting. But it's not going to affect how I take other things you might say, things that might have value. In other words, I'm not going to hold a grudge over it. Same way I reacted to Bertrand doing similar. Or would you rather I hold a grudge, like you wanted me to with him?

Why are you asking me what I want you to do? I am not your mom lol.

Just be honest with yourself lol. I don’t care what you do.

[niffer]

If I could give birth to some blonde lady that would be amazing though

[Myst]

?? im not irl anyways and im uncomfortable with people like that. well i can like loud people with weird dark humor but when people are like "PUSSSY, DICK HAHAHA" or "unsophisticated" (lol) humor like that im like please stop. maybe thats more alpha though. I like it when people are expressive and humorous with weird humor and no one is laughing, everyone's like what the hell is wrong with this person, that makes me laugh. and i think thats gamma-like. i have weird humour but im too scared to openly express it around people like that unless i know them well, so i appreciate people who have the guts to do it

i was taking a taxi with a guy the other day and it was pretty quiet during the whole ride, then the guy showed me a meme and i acted disinterested cause it wasnt funny, and i made this scenario up in my head because i was wondering what the driver is thinking, i was thinking, what if he thinks im a prostitute and the only thing this guy has to say who paid for me to chat me up is show me a meme, thats so lame, then i laughed like the whole ride


i think thats more gamma humor

Then try ESI if you are sure about gamma. IDK though if these anecdotes can determine type.

[Myst]

It calls into question my character and integrity, and yes, I did indeed get emotional regarding that because that's all that really matters in a person, nothing else does. So yeah, it was insulting. But it's not going to affect how I take other things you might say, things that might have value. In other words, I'm not going to hold a grudge over it. Same way I reacted to Bertrand doing similar. Or would you rather I hold a grudge, like you wanted me to with him?

You don't have integrity. End of story.

You will perhaps develop a tiny little bit more integrity one nice fucking day if you stop being so clouded by emotions so fast when there is disagreement over otherwise totally impersonal matters or when it comes to judging someone's behaviour without fully clarifying their motives first.

[Myst]

I agree, Myst.

I would name it speculation. It's the perception of similar patterns in different situations and objects.

Yeah in a way that it cannot directly be pointed to (with concrete Sensing facts).

[niffer]

Yeah it turns out you didn’t share PMs but what you did do was bad enough that it might as well have been that.

After having worked with around 1000 children and their families I never expected I’d meet adults this childish.

Maybe it is a race thing though because it was in Japan mostly

JK

(not rly)

[maniac]

Then try ESI if you are sure about gamma. IDK though if these anecdotes can determine type.

I don’t relate to that type whatsoever. I really don’t see why you’re so against ILI when it fits me perfectly. Try arguments.

[golden]

It’s pretty ridiculous and disappointing to have stepped back onto this forum to find that people are tearing into one another ... like, how could it actually have gotten worse? I also find it difficult to believe that forum members such as @squark and @Adam Strange are focal points. I haven’t been present for all events but they are both people who have my respect.

[Myst]

It’s pretty ridiculous and disappointing to have stepped back onto this forum to find that people are tearing into one another ... like, how could it actually have gotten worse? I also find it difficult to believe that forum members such as @squark and @Adam Strange are focal points. I haven’t been present for all events but they are both people who have my respect.

Frankly, I lost a lot of respect for her when she started doing all that biased behaviour. I do have respect for Adam though, yes.

[Myst]

I don’t relate to that type whatsoever. I really don’t see why you’re so against ILI when it fits me perfectly. Try arguments.

I was sharing what I saw about you - and I did give arguments along with that. I don't know you beyond what you showed on these forums. I don't have more arguments atm than what I already said. You didn't address the part though about "you noted before that you want to hear answers to "why's"." And btw I didn't intend to paint you in a light where you'd be a person who's totally helpless with the Ti type of logic, I pointed out how you do have you own reasonings etc just fine. (I don't see even Ti DS as "totally helpless" anyway btw.)

OK, on second thought, my other argument against ILI would be that I've yet to see Fe PoLR in the sense that you'd be that poorly oriented about emotions. I remember you mentioning more control over them than that, too.

Overall I find you much more a dreamy NF than a "robotic" NT.

[silke]

Moderators should ban anyone! Then it will be peace here and no one will be offenced!

an incident enough for @Bertrand to type Sol as SLE now lol

[maniac]

I was sharing what I saw about you - and I did give arguments along with that. I don't know you beyond what you showed on these forums. I don't have more arguments atm than what I already said. You didn't address the part though about "you noted before that you want to hear answers to "why's"." And btw I didn't intend to paint you in a light where you'd be a person who's totally helpless with the Ti type of logic, I pointed out how you do have you own reasonings etc just fine. (I don't see even Ti DS as "totally helpless" anyway btw.)

OK, on second thought, my other argument against ILI would be that I've yet to see Fe PoLR in the sense that you'd be that poorly oriented about emotions. I remember you mentioning more control over them than that, too.

Overall I find you much more a dreamy NF than a "robotic" NT.

yes i did adress it, i just wrote above because of curiosity and i dont deny the fact that you can learn from other people

i dont agree that i have much control over my emotions, though i think most people dont regardless of f/t. i think men and maybe logicals are less emotional and meaning more control (control meaning supression) over emotions. so im confused here.
i think ili is pretty dreamy aswell though i dont think im dreamy in an iei way, it feels too princesslike or something. and naive. i dont think nts are necessarily robotic though my sister has called me that. but thats cause i dont trust or like her so i keep my emotions to a minimum around her.

[Myst]

yes i did adress it, i just wrote above because of curiosity and i dont deny the fact that you can learn from other people

OK I just interpreted it (what you originally said about the why's) as you needing a little input for the answer for the "why".

i dont agree that i have much control over my emotions, though i think most people dont regardless of f/t. i think men and maybe logicals are less emotional and meaning more control (control meaning supression) over emotions. so im confused here.
i think ili is pretty dreamy aswell though i dont think im dreamy in an iei way, it feels too princesslike or something. and naive. i dont think nts are necessarily robotic though my sister has called me that. but thats cause i dont trust or like her so i keep my emotions to a minimum around her.

Oh I meant the control thing in the Socionics sense: Fe egos manipulate emotional states consciously. Rather than just a black-white way of allowing the emotion/killing it off.

I don't see IEIs as necessarily naive, that's not inherent to the type.

OK well idk if the input helped any, I don't have more atm.

[niffer]

It’s pretty ridiculous and disappointing to have stepped back onto this forum to find that people are tearing into one another ... like, how could it actually have gotten worse? I also find it difficult to believe that forum members such as @squark and @Adam Strange are focal points. I haven’t been present for all events but they are both people who have my respect.

:>

[WinnieW]

Yeah in a way that it cannot directly be pointed to (with concrete Sensing facts).

Sorry, I was going to write "I would not name it speculation". Such things happen to me when I got distracted while writing.

[WinnieW]

i think men and maybe logicals are less emotional and meaning more control (control meaning supression) over emotions.

This is only partly true for me. I'm quite easily irritable.

Alpha NT are more merry than gamma NT, I guess, because they are more serious.
Valuing of and leads to a sanguine behaviour style.
(Example: Doc Brown / Back to the Future Movie)

[Myst]

Sorry, I was going to write "I would not name it speculation". Such things happen to me when I got distracted while writing.

No worries, my comment was made independent of that typo. And btw, since such things cannot be directly pointed to and might not turn out to be real later either, it's what people call speculation. This was my point.

[WinnieW]

I'd better call it a hypothesis, not speculation. You can prove or disprove it. By successfully doing so it isn't a speculation anymore. It's either true or false.

[Myst]

I'd better call it a hypothesis, not speculation. You can prove or disprove it. By successfully doing so it isn't a speculation anymore. It's either true or false.

Before proving it it's speculation.