S L E
L
E
I think what squark is picking up on is the lack of rationality, i.e.: the flexible and manipulate nature of the logic which leaves it unmoored and inconsistent at times
S L E
L
E
I think what squark is picking up on is the lack of rationality, i.e.: the flexible and manipulate nature of the logic which leaves it unmoored and inconsistent at times
No.
yeah totes
@Sol in a post of his here (not just that post but it was very striking to me when I read it recently) is just like this Ti-dom description: "They (...) take up a more fanatical stand, which may easily degenerate into dogmatism and extreme pedantry. In general, both children and adults of this type are, as a result of their introversion, difficult to convince that they are mistaken. Their inner, logical reasoning makes them feel that they are right, and they may take up an attitude to the external world also, which might be expressed as follows: "That is my opinion, even if I can't prove it; whether you agree or not, it will not change it to the slightest degree.""
The whole thing as is applies, but I bolded the main points. That's in Van der Hoop's jungian description of Introverted Thinking: https://web.archive.org/web/20160305...H-van-der-Hoop
Yeah LSE has come up for Adam before, and, afaik he doesn't mind such discussions (correct me if I'm wrong). I'm personally not sure on his type, I've considered both LIE and LSE for him yes. I couldn't decide on it in the end though, so I just went with his self-typing unless something convinces me either way. I considered LSE because he can get pretty detailed in stories and because I'm not always sure if I'm seeing Ni or Ne more from him. I didn't drop LIE because he supposedly does know what LSEs are like so should've recognized it if he was one, and just overall I never saw a real reason to drop it. If you have any thoughts on the LSE typing, feel free to bring it up... unless ofc Adam objects.Originally Posted by Kara
Agreed, I have no idea how Adam makes some people triggered/butthurt this much here lol
I don't even get the worldview lol, about half of people are Thinking types in this worlds
Yeah, my LIE ex bf also asked for Ti from me for certain stuff. And I let him Te some other stuff.
The problem with this thought experiment is that it uses unproven assumptions. It's not guaranteed by anything that you can make a robot like that. Maybe you can, maybe not...
One way I can imagine it working is if you program the behaviours of the neurons and chemical stuff etc on a low enough level, into the silicon chips or whatever other technology (now assume there is enough processing power too for that... currently that's not available, but ok let's assume, I see less of a problem with this assumption), but in this case it will have the same explanation for the behaviours as the human being.
Also... SLE in Socionics isn't just a random label, there is a logical context that gives it logical meaning.
Hi, @Myst.
I don't mind if people speculate on my type. I'm pretty confident about being LIE, and speculation about my type by others is a good way for them to test their ideas about which characteristics go with which types.
Yesterday I was talking to my LSE sister about the differences between us, and I told her that I have pretty good foresight regarding the future. She agreed with me and said "I can't do that. You are good at it." (She sometimes tiptoes around topics concerning future plans that involve me, probably because she doesn't want to be outmaneuvered.) I told her that, likewise, she probably thinks I'm fairly useless for practical work, and she laughed and agreed. (She is cleaning up our parent's house prior to our selling it and she just built a patio (by herself) behind her own house.)
It probably varies on a person-by-person basis. I post a lot, so there is a lot of material available for criticism.Agreed, I have no idea how Adam makes some people triggered/butthurt this much here lol
Ti can be awesome.
I don't even get the worldview lol, about half of people are Thinking types in this worlds
Yeah, my LIE ex bf also asked for Ti from me for certain stuff. And I let him Te some other stuff.
There is a good book on how the brain works called "On Intelligence", by Jeff Hawkins. He feels that the brain is entirely a machine.
*EDIT*
Sometimes my LSE sister's lack of foresight is astounding. Her IEI husband got an inheritance from his parents and simultaneously had a vision and decided to move to a mountain top in the Rockies, and told her he was moving and she could do whatever she wanted. So he walked away from their house near Chicago (which she paid for) and he bought a house on the side of a mountain, where the "energy levels" are much better. (So are the brush fires.) She sold their existing house for a loss six months later and followed him. She had been making six figures as a pharmacist, but was only able to get a job in the mountains at Home Depot making $13/hr. She told me with genuine pride that she just got a 54 cent raise. I can't imagine what goes on inside her head.
Last edited by Adam Strange; 06-18-2018 at 07:02 PM.
hey myst thanks for posting. <statement of fact that presuposses I know how to type>. based on <the aforementioned>, I've concluced I'm LIE. You're the best. *winks*
This is what I mean by in one ear and out the other for you. Speaking for yourself here mainly.
[Today 07:57 AM] Raver: Life is a ride that lasts very long, but still a ride. It is a dream that we have yet to awaken from.
It's hard to find a love through every shade of grey.
I totally understand, you think the two are somehow equivalent. that's precisely what makes you gross, because its in that space a whole lotta information lies and it makes a huge difference. one could say, the difference between being a good human being. of course I freely admit those who disagree are free to congregate according to their taste, in point of fact that the world orders itself that way is just a basic property of all societies and is precisely that which gives cultures their character. in essence when people say the measure of all things is in a culture, they're saying what defines a good human being is culturally relative. if you want to live in the adam strange culture have at it. can I demonstrate as a matter of logic that if I just went along with it, we could all coexist? yes of course on some superficial level because the begs the question, but I can demonstrate as a matter of history that it is not that simple and you cannot contort humanity in such a way. rather such coexistence has to be founded on certain values and not simple lizard man ethics. do I expect you to understand this in the slightest? no. adam strange represents the house built on sand in all he does
lol, that's actually a pretty accurate rendition of Adam's posts.
edit:referring to post #1665. But don't forget to throw in "I have 54238 years of experience. I know the type. Trust me."
Lol. You guys act as if you’re beyond those poorly characterized measures.
[Today 07:57 AM] Raver: Life is a ride that lasts very long, but still a ride. It is a dream that we have yet to awaken from.
It's hard to find a love through every shade of grey.
My posts and pictures are there to read. I really don't have time to contradict every person who says I'm the flavor of the week.
[Today 07:57 AM] Raver: Life is a ride that lasts very long, but still a ride. It is a dream that we have yet to awaken from.
It's hard to find a love through every shade of grey.
you're like Sol if he were SLE and not LSE. same library of self generated tropes, but without the library. you cut out the work and instead focus on self promotion. the world is viewed in terms of the same dimensions just from the other side. this is why to "educate" you, you don't need sincerity you want someone who can flatter and lead you around by your ego. i.e.: the IEI
Cool yeah I do think it can be a way for people to understand more. (Lol though you call it "test of ideas" but I get what you mean otherwise.)
What kind of practical work did she mean? That you didn't help your LSI with? You said you fix things around the house. My LIE ex bf was also good at that, absolutely great actually... maybe he'd break something on first try but then get the hang of it okay and he loved to tinker. Really he'd fix everything broken, would jump enthusiastically at the opportunity to tinker with/fix stuff every time. He was also good at keeping financial stuff in order, yes. Very good there too really. Also good at figuring shortcuts to get money anywhere. Also he sometimes felt like cooking and actually had a great talent at cooking spicy stuff especially. But uuh, beyond these things, anything else that's a practical matter... no.Yesterday I was talking to my LSE sister about the differences between us, and I told her that I have pretty good foresight regarding the future. She agreed with me and said "I can't do that. You are good at it." (She sometimes tiptoes around topics concerning future plans that involve me, probably because she doesn't want to be outmaneuvered.) I told her that, likewise, she probably thinks I'm fairly useless for practical work, and she laughed and agreed. (She is cleaning up our parent's house prior to our selling it and she just built a patio (by herself) behind her own house.)
Also can I ask, how do you do this planning for moneymaking for companies for many years ahead?
Yeah I've wanted to have a glimpse at that book for a while now. But reading other ones atm.There is a good book on how the brain works called "On Intelligence", by Jeff Hawkins. He feels that the brain is entirely a machine.
EhSometimes my LSE sister's lack of foresight is astounding. Her IEI husband got an inheritance from his parents and simultaneously had a vision and decided to move to a mountain top in the Rockies, and told her he was moving and she could do whatever she wanted. So he walked away from their house near Chicago (which she paid for) and he bought a house on the side of a mountain, where the "energy levels" are much better. (So are the brush fires.) She sold their existing house for a loss six months later and followed him. She had been making six figures as a pharmacist, but was only able to get a job in the mountains at Home Depot making $13/hr. She told me with genuine pride that she just got a 54 cent raise. I can't imagine what goes on inside her head.
I've not managed to decode your passive-aggressive remark on first try and I cba to waste time on that.
They are not even remotely similar... in terms of reasoning Adam puts together ideas in loose abstract-ish links (is how it comes off to me), and Sol has strict logical priorities in evaluating things.
q u a s i
this is how you know cognitive styles are a thing as well
How the fuck is this quasis?
elimination of the "unnecessary", all that matters is the final result [1]
often confused for Te/Ni, it is in fact just SLE holographic thinking. Adam himself would say he's more a thief than a terrorist, whereas Jack is neither. Jack can produce real value, and is therefore closer to Mcclaine in the final analysis. all he needs to do is get people to buy the general outline and hes got the money, this is not however what America was founded on. its a cynicism of pretenders attempting to level reality via force of will (a kind of Se Trumpism, where all that matters is people lose faith in there being something deeper at all). think of adam like bill paxton in true lies to Arnold's LSE
[1] doesn't matter; got laid
I didn't mean the SLE type of associations of sensory impressions when I was talking about how Adam reasons.
And LSE doesn't have the logical prioritizations Sol does, but I obviously don't type him LSE
yeah I know you're on planet Myst. its okay, we're all on our own planet, just giving you a look at mine
No, it's not about being on my own planet, it's about valuing my time more than dealing with passive-aggressive remarks. If you disagree with something, say it outright. Not this nonsense, thanks.
Or if you were referring to my disagreeing with you on Adam and Sol being quasis... I really can't even begin to fathom how you could arrive at such an answer from the fact of our simply having different reasoning.
I was actually making fun of Adam for his transparently grimy sales pitch
I saw the criticism sure I was commenting on the other parts
you would look amazing in this broke down overpriced piece of shit I'd love to sell you: its name is Adam Strange
He probably bugs you so much because he reminds you of yourself somehow
[Today 07:57 AM] Raver: Life is a ride that lasts very long, but still a ride. It is a dream that we have yet to awaken from.
It's hard to find a love through every shade of grey.
how is adam SLE.. he sounds more like Se polr
but i do find your hate for him funny bertrand because its so extreme and seems unprovoked
Give me a break. Bertrand spends as much time insulting me as he does Adam, I just don't have a posse of defenders swooping in each time he does. And I wouldn't want that. Bertrand's been a real asshole to me, but I'm still able to recognize when he has a point (and when he doesn't.)
I have noticed this, which is why it’s extra curious to me that you continue to eat Bertrand’s ass.
But hm no I’d say he insults Adam 100x as much he insults you, unless you are counting general insults towards LSIs and betas.
[Today 07:57 AM] Raver: Life is a ride that lasts very long, but still a ride. It is a dream that we have yet to awaken from.
It's hard to find a love through every shade of grey.
Well, "understanding" implies that there is an absolute right and wrong way to look at socionics, and I don't think there is such a thing (yet). I think the overall structure was arbitrarily defined by Asutra and some others and that's what they handed us. But it's just their opinions. I think it's a remarkably useful structure, but I think the jury is out regarding whether it describes the way the brain actually works.
You could compare Socionic's divisions of people into types to the location of objects on a spherical grid. Depending on the choices you make for your initial orthogonal axis', you can get very different descriptions of the same individual.
I was the one who suggested to her that she'd criticize me for being useless at practical work, mainly because she was cleaning the house and I just dropped in to say Hi to people.
What kind of practical work did she mean? That you didn't help your LSI with? You said you fix things around the house. My LIE ex bf was also good at that, absolutely great actually... maybe he'd break something on first try but then get the hang of it okay and he loved to tinker. Really he'd fix everything broken, would jump enthusiastically at the opportunity to tinker with/fix stuff every time. He was also good at keeping financial stuff in order, yes. Very good there too really. Also good at figuring shortcuts to get money anywhere. Also he sometimes felt like cooking and actually had a great talent at cooking spicy stuff especially. But uuh, beyond these things, anything else that's a practical matter... no.
I'm actually quite good at doing things around the house. I've rebuilt the engine in my car, helped the LSI with her car repairs, tracked down an electrical problem in her house, etc. Nevertheless, an LSE would look at me and say, "Good theorist, bad doer."
Lol. There are some dishes that I can cook. Not many.
The way you do it is to look at the company's products and see how they fit into the market today and how they will fit in tomorrow.
Customers generally want products which are easier to use and have more capabilities. They are sometimes concerned with price, but you should never compete on price. Only compete on features. Leave the price competitors to fight it out at the bottom of the market.
You have to anticipate what the customer will pay for. Sometimes this is easy, sometimes not. Sometimes the customer doesn't know what they want and you have to show them how your product will make their life better, will give them an edge over their competition, and will get them laid every time they get close to an attractive person.
Also, the best people are hugely productive resources. Don't hire idiots. Don't even hire average. You can't afford it. Always hire people who are better than you are. This way, they have talent in reserve for the time when you say, "We're cancelling this entire area of product sales because we can make more money selling something entirely different. Adapt."
Basic types theory is short and simple. I use mostly it, without redundant and more doubtful bells and wistles.
Use intuitive impressions from nonverbal as the primary approach like me and forget about Ti speculations as much as possibly.For example, among bloggers I typed I almost never hear what they talked there. I see them and when I notice the clear impressions of some type - I add them to the list.
If there was a proof that Ti appoach gives much better results... But what I see in the experiments - the _harder_ questionnaires analysis gave close typing matches like VI by videos. The same average match 15-20% and the paired up to ~30%.
Only the Ti from LII goes speculative... the speculative part is the Intuition actually, not Ti itself.Basic types theory is short and simple. I use mostly it, without redundant and more doubtful bells and wistles.
Use intuitive impressions from nonverbal as the primary approach like me and forget about Ti speculations as much as possibly.
If there was a proof that Ti appoach gives much better results... But what I see in the experiments - the _harder_ questionnaires analysis gave close typing matches like VI by videos. The same average match 15-20% and the paired up to ~30%.
I don't think model A describes the brain much "as is", there's just a few good ideas/principles in it.
That's when you go with the traits based approach.You could compare Socionic's divisions of people into types to the location of objects on a spherical grid. Depending on the choices you make for your initial orthogonal axis', you can get very different descriptions of the same individual.
Lol ok so what does an LSE criticize as you being impractical?I was the one who suggested to her that she'd criticize me for being useless at practical work, mainly because she was cleaning the house and I just dropped in to say Hi to people.
I'm actually quite good at doing things around the house. I've rebuilt the engine in my car, helped the LSI with her car repairs, tracked down an electrical problem in her house, etc. Nevertheless, an LSE would look at me and say, "Good theorist, bad doer."
Lol. There are some dishes that I can cook. Not many.
Makes sense.The way you do it is to look at the company's products and see how they fit into the market today and how they will fit in tomorrow.
Customers generally want products which are easier to use and have more capabilities. They are sometimes concerned with price, but you should never compete on price. Only compete on features. Leave the price competitors to fight it out at the bottom of the market.
You have to anticipate what the customer will pay for. Sometimes this is easy, sometimes not. Sometimes the customer doesn't know what they want and you have to show them how your product will make their life better, will give them an edge over their competition, and will get them laid every time they get close to an attractive person.
Also, the best people are hugely productive resources. Don't hire idiots. Don't even hire average. You can't afford it. Always hire people who are better than you are. This way, they have talent in reserve for the time when you say, "We're cancelling this entire area of product sales because we can make more money selling something entirely different. Adapt."
No, I think this characterizes you a lot more than me. I will not support someone I am friends with in an area where they are being illogical, but if you have seen me do this you’re welcome to bring it up. But in the first place I don’t try to construct some image of myself being utterly unbiased either.
You however seem to have gotten into some unexplained personal disliking of Adam, because your criticisms of him are disproportionate to reality. You also apparently continue to eat Bertrand’s ass because he’s eaten yours a few times in the past and the sensation on your anus lingers, even though it doesn’t make any sense to do so and tolerate his disrespect towards you.
[Today 07:57 AM] Raver: Life is a ride that lasts very long, but still a ride. It is a dream that we have yet to awaken from.
It's hard to find a love through every shade of grey.
people who defend adam are not always intentionally doing it, the point is that from his point of view it only encourages him and I think people are dumb to cozy up to him for other reasons. in the final analysis what really makes people encouraging adam a problem is that it validates and perpetuates his way of thinking across multiple vectors: i.e.: he does it more, and it seems more legitimate, when I don't think it is. that's my stake in it, not that I think anyone who happens to let his antics slide is somehow secretly attached to him. although those people exist too
In types traits a speculation is closest to introversion (of all 4 functions), as it's the opposite to objective (extraverted) approach.
About Ti. It describes the links between objective. Those links can be made by different ways. The way which you choose - your subjective choice. For example, you may interpret the same facts by different ways and come to different resumes.
You’ll need to be much more specific. Me generally getting emotional when someone I like is being treated poorly, is not the same thing as irrationally eating ass left and right like you do.
It seems like you had some kind of lingering distaste for him, otherwise you would not have used such negatively toned wording like you did when you first talked about him entering this discussion.I don't have any personal beef with Adam,
People can be more insulted than they are willing to admit to themselves or others. Regardless of his (or your) acknowledgement though, they were obviously negative comments.and he took no insult to what I said regarding his Ti.
Erm, have you ever heard of integrating the unconscious. Everybody has and uses emotions, equally. What you ignore now will sneak up behind you and bite you in the ass, later. You are a very responsible sounding adult. The “I am an objective unemotional robot” shtick works on nobody in IRL anymore I’m sure, and it convinces nobody online either.Funny thing is, when I said that the attacks were over the line, Bertrand reacted the exact same way that you're now reacting - making comments on how I must like Adam and I'm so supportive of him and so on. It's pretty ridiculous really . . . it's like really? You guys actually work that way, entirely on feelings? I mean, why else would you automatically think everyone else does?
[Today 07:57 AM] Raver: Life is a ride that lasts very long, but still a ride. It is a dream that we have yet to awaken from.
It's hard to find a love through every shade of grey.
Thank you for wording this. This is exactly why people defend you unintentionally, and wrongly actually.
It is wrong, because it enables your toxic attitude and underhanded behaviours within this forum. Some people don’t pick up on nuance very easily however.
[Today 07:57 AM] Raver: Life is a ride that lasts very long, but still a ride. It is a dream that we have yet to awaken from.
It's hard to find a love through every shade of grey.
No, I don't.
Lol, I never claimed to be an unemotional robot lol. Nice try. I don't even pretend to be. But, not being able to laugh at an entertaining comment someone makes because oh no, they said some mean thing at some point? That seems ridiculously sensitive to me. I find it hard to believe that anyone would be that hung up on something, or so hurt that they'd nurse a grudge to that point.Erm, have you ever heard of integrating the unconscious. Everybody has and uses emotions, equally. What you ignore will sneak up behind you and bite you in the ass, later. You are a very responsible sounding adult. The “I am an objective unemotional robot” shtick works on nobody in IRL anymore I’m sure, and it convinces nobody online either.
lol if there were actual mods here who knows what the case would be because the forums would not have been as I encountered them at the onset. lets not forget my bad behavior started when Adam was harassing lungs. of course I concede I may nevertheless have been banned and him kept, because that's how perverse authority can be. kind of how like Im banned from the gamma duality thread, and frequently get typed ESI
You would be banned before me too, for what you did to my mentor.
Something something sharing PMs
[Today 07:57 AM] Raver: Life is a ride that lasts very long, but still a ride. It is a dream that we have yet to awaken from.
It's hard to find a love through every shade of grey.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
