"Follow Your Dreams"

[Pallas]

My whole time growing up, probably like many (most?) people, I was told to "follow my dreams." Now I'm just trying to figure out, what does that even mean? I just found this Psychology Today article that says "Don't quit everything and make bumper stickers for environmentalists. That's just dumb." I аgreed with that since I don't think cutting out a bunch of cheap colored pieces of paper is the height of human achievement, but I was just like "wait, that's what that was supposed to mean?" I grew up thinking that the best dream you can have is whatever gives you the most interesting stories to tell to other people. Take the movie The Sound of Music. It's telling people to follow their dreams, but the entire movie is about her running away from the convent to marry the Navy guy, and then from the Nazis. I have no idea what happens afterward aside from a lot of Alp-climbing while singing in dirndls and lederhosen (please sign me up,) but just her singing with the kids over and over again simply wouldn't make an interesting movie. I might just have read too much Nietzsche and had too much disdain for Oprah growing up, but how do the people around you use motivational phrases like this?

[Tonatiuh]

Is the whole 'follow your dreams schtick' a very american concept? I can't remember hearing it growing up or later in life tbh.

[Hope]

****** was a product of a frustrated dream. So commercials and Disney were right. If you do have dreams a) stop dreaming b) follow them until you succeed. Otherwise you could end up being another ****** who wanted to be an artists but failed.

Seriously, I'm annoyed by that too. I mean what dreams? I have heard a lot about having and following our dreams from Extraverted Intuitive Te valuers mostly. When they say it I know they just imagine or refer to 'success' and then Its like they can't conceive that sensors don't dream and our ambitions are limited.

[Pookie]

Following all your dreams is a surefire way to end up resentful and a terrible person.

Growing up is when you give up everything you ever wanted to be in order to become one thing you want to be.

Otherwise, you're a drain on everyone in your life and you will die bitter.

[Tallmo]

It's not that complicated. "Follow your dreams" simply means that you should try to achieve what you are longing for. But then there is reality that puts lots of constraints on realizations of dreams. That means that you have to navigate between reality and your dreams and make the best of the whole equation. You always have to compromise and find something that works for you, in your life. Both in terms of your inner longing and the demands of outer reality.

In some rare occasions the person is able to realize his dreams 100%, but that is quite rare. But even lower % is worth trying.

[Bertrand]

following your dreams I think means different things to different people. at the end of the day its sort of a cliche unless you can make it work for the betterment of the situation, otherwise its just not that helpful

[Hope]

Maybe its a nice term to name 'ambitions'. But I'm sure IEEs and ILEs 'dream', or more properly fantasize about their ambitions. However I get uncomfortable when the word comes to conversation or when they specifically ask about my dreams. I don't like too much fantasize about achievements, I agree that it can leads to frustration and else. If you are too fixed in stuff and imagine a movie about your life, chances are you will be limiting yourself and your adaptability and ability to take care about unexpected stuff and setting for yourself very high standards - that no one besides you is forcing you too keep- so disappointment, frustration and neuroses could increase.

[ooo]

u people are so negative seriously

[powerrainbowcrystal]

The phrase is kinda stupid because what if its somebody's dream to molest children, or kill a bunch of people- or to sadistically inflict as much fear as possible? Or rob a bunch of banks and live a life of crime etc. With bs sayings like these, the wrong people can get encouraged I think. It assumes the dream is some sort of innocent-seeming businessman thing that never gets you in trouble and perfectly lines up with Oprah Winfrey American capitalist ideals or something. It's quite naive, because everybody's brains and ambitions aren't all condescendingly moral and appropriate like a Ted Talk. Obviously, some dreams are better followed than others.

Ted Bundy, Jeffrey Dahmer, Timothy McVeigh all 'followed their dreams.'

Instead of follow your dreams I think it's wiser advice to say 'divert your nightmares' or something- kinda approaching it from the other end but I am left-handed and it makes better sense to me. Because all the negative subconscious stuff needs to get filtered out often so you can truly follow a path to positivity. Also its important to look at the trade-off of a choice. A will get me what at the risk of X, y, Z. 'make better choices' is a better saying imo. The saying works for many people who are spoiled and privileged though, of course.

[Raver]

Follow your dreams until reality punches you in the face repeatedly so you can inevitably settle on mediocrity and dream what could of been if only you tried harder when you had the chance.

[Bertrand]

The phrase is kinda stupid because what if its somebody's dream to molest children, or kill a bunch of people- or to sadistically inflict as much fear as possible? Or rob a bunch of banks and live a life of crime etc. With bs sayings like these, the wrong people can get encouraged I think. It assumes the dream is some sort of innocent-seeming businessman thing that never gets you in trouble and perfectly lines up with Oprah Winfrey American capitalist ideals or something. It's quite naive, because everybody's brains and ambitions aren't all condescendingly moral and appropriate like a Ted Talk. Obviously, some dreams are better followed than others.

Ted Bundy, Jeffrey Dahmer, Timothy McVeigh all 'followed their dreams.'

Instead of follow your dreams I think it's wiser advice to say 'divert your nightmares' or something- kinda approaching it from the other end but I am left-handed and it makes better sense to me. Because all the negative subconscious stuff needs to get filtered out often so you can truly follow a path to positivity. Also its important to look at the trade-off of a choice. A will get me what at the risk of X, y, Z. 'make better choices' is a better saying imo. The saying works for many people who are spoiled and privileged though, of course.

lol this is so Ti it hurts. because almost any moral statement can be abused or go wrong somewhere, I don't know if you realize it but you're implicitly invoking Kant's categorical imperative: For Kant, an act is only permissible if one is willing for the maxim that allows the action to be a universal law by which everyone acts.

as you can probably guess this resulted in a really short list of possible moral advice. on balance following your dreams is only as good as the dreams themselves are, but how do we know what is good or bad if people lack the courage of their convictions. in the end people may dream up bad stuff and other people may dream up good stuff, and its the human drama that results. you can think of "follow your dreams" as being the totally generic precondition for creative human output: in this sense dreams are to be understood as intuitions themselves, without which people would just be automatons. in this sense existence itself would be like a dreamless sleep

[powerrainbowcrystal]

I know what they mean and it seems stupid and anally retentive to even analyze it further but flat out the saying just doesn't inspire me. It's too hollow and vague. If you wanna encourage me you just have to be more aristocratic and creative than that. At least point out what specific dream you think I should follow...

this is the kind of stuff I think 1D Ni people eat up.

[Bertrand]

I know what they mean and it seems stupid and anally retentive to even analyze it further but flat out the saying just doesn't inspire me. It's too hollow and vague. If you wanna encourage me you just have to be more aristocratic and creative than that. At least point out what specific dream you think I should follow...

this is the kind of stuff I think 1D Ni people eat up.

im picturing those stupid plaques people put on their walls

[powerrainbowcrystal]

You know on second glance I actually need to take this advice - because I'm being too nitpicky with it. There's this project I've been wanting to work on that I should work on more, since its IEI-y and artsy and uses my unique skillset etc. It's my dream... that I should follow. But um idk, yeahhh I'm just immune to Oprah stuff like this.

What about 'Don't abandon yourself' I just like that better- even though for some people it might be negative. I realize that objectively irl I kind of deflate the air in the room, despite being a Fe valuer- I'm very debbie downer-ish. So often a negative but positive thing will inspire me.

[whodat]

The central theme for Maria was “climb every mountain”. Which just means keep exploring, keep being strenuous, keep looking over horizens, look back down from where you walk, and look up at where you could be. Follow your internal notions, wherever they came from and started, and when you found some image like you imagined, you congratulate yourself, then climb another mountain.

This is why Maria get’s a IEE typing: because she never stops exploring what was possible *for her life*. All the rest, the Nazis, the family, the hubby, those were life responsibilities she picked up along the way, and those became different mountains for her to climb. In the end, she found her dream, the big family, and a place for her ethical and intuitive products.

Is it about stories to share? Yes and no, but mostly no, because one thing I’ve learned is that most everybody doesnt care about you or your stories, not really. That sounds bad and maybe it is. Its just the way it is. That’s why you gotta be really kind with yourself and be the main narrator and story teller in your minds eye for yourself.

Simple phrases, simple litanies, however much they change over time (they do), are important and useful and can help your minds heart shoulder the burdens and persevere, or provide direction, or a princible, and your mind tells you it again and again throughout a day or other time period and maybe that is just a way in which people, myself included, maybe you as well, cope, survive, thrive, and continue.

Yes, they can be tacky, imo, who cares! You dont need to tell anybody but yourself.

[whodat]

Maria was also NF because although she was an exploring type of person, she could never totally do it on her own. She always needed outside help for basic living requirements, even if meager. Like when she went to live in the Cloister, or when she went to live with the Von Trapps.

[whodat]

I got a million phrases I tell myself, lots of times song lyrics.

."plant my feet, I'm here to stay, I dig my heals into the fucking ground"..that might be something I say over and over again when I'm biking up hill, or worried about a bill invoice I just received, or steeling myself for some task, that sort of thing.

[wasp]

"if we do not adapt by modifying our attitudes and expectations, our minds and bodies will suffer"

but i don't think dreams themselves are the issue here, i don't see anything wrong with the quote either. i think the issue lies in the fact that some people interpret it to mean: "follow your dreams, which have an extremely low chance of being realized, partly because it's difficult to become [x] since you lack the prerequisites, but mostly because you refuse to put in the necessary work to realize your dreams, instead just tell everyone that it is going to happen"

sometimes they fall into the trap of pursuing their dreams - only to fail or give up at some point - but instead of extracting something valuable from the experience, they choose to perceive it as a failure, as if not reaching the end invalidates the progress leading up to it, no matter how far they've come

[esq]

[whodat]

-->"When the Dog bites, when the bee stings, when I'm feeling sad, I simply remember my favorite things and then I don't feel so bad."

Something IEE might say^

[wasp]

@esq cool I'm saving that

[whodat]

useless visualization and vortical synergistic.

[idontgiveaf]

Well I'm much of a follow "what makes you happy" kind of person.

Dreams are big tbh. So it's a step by step process to achieve that. = which i soon forget about in the process. Like i don't really think about that often.

Because if my dreams are already causing me suffering, or depression.. Or leading me to something worse, then that's not even worth following anymore.

So, follow what makes you happy. We can create smaller dreams against bigger ones.

Big ones and small ones i think is the same. It's just how you achieve that in the process.. It's how you became in the process.

[Chae]

There aren't many motivational people in my environment. I'm the one who has that task But I wouldn't advise following something as vague as "dreams" or whatever. We all know what happened to Hensel and Gretel when they followed some very promising bullshit. It was delicious though, that's true.

Most people miss their calling anyways, in that regard I've given up in terms of encouragement. The only generic phrase I spout is push harder, be strong, persist, that's 90% of the job. To me it's more important to work with the day at hand and not the future, elsewhere you have no influence. A German saying goes "Träume sind Schäume" - Dreams are Like Foam, meaning a dream is something very unstable/flighty. I save the dreaming for kinky things.

[Grendel]

[ooo]

I don't know if you people have ever read the biographies of serial killers, or if you can embrace the motives around every gesture/person without relying on some imposed morality of your own (but that it's nevertheless the product of something more complex altogether). nevermind, ignorance is the core of hate. likely, most serial killers and extreme evil acts are not a product of "follow your dreams", they're a product of bad nurturing, of deviated brains, of a lack of something more profound. the real dream behind those evil gestures is not "kill 'em all", but it's a dream of satisfaction. like all dreams are. satisfaction is really hard to obtain, especially because we don't know truly ourseleves and what makes us truly satisfied, and because we don't know ourselves we don't know what we're missing and dream for... DS anyone?

say a little boy wants to become a football player, is it a need coming from his within? or is that something "imposed" from the outside world? dreams come from within, not from the outside. say that little boy becomes a good football player and plays for the local football team, but never manages to go big because the sport system is corrupted or someone else is always better than him... did he make his dream true? shallowly yes, but not profoundly, because the starting dream was not actually to be a football player, but to be recognized and to be famous, because that's what the outside world imposes on everyone. all those impositions to which he has succumbed are anyway pointing towards something else, namely that this boy has always strived to impress the world, not himself. there's no dream in that. the dream was for love, again.. what we truely miss.

you can call all the dreams as a quest for true love, because our dreams, the real ones, not the shallow ones to which we succumb as a brainwashed mass -buy, eat, be good looking, buy, buy, be better than your neighbour- are the desire of our hearts.

as cinderella in the clip says, it's better not to voice them, once they're out they get confused with the noise of the world. you want your dream to stay as pure and intact as possible, a source of infinite inspiration that self-creates all the times, not far from what spirituality is.

Now... indeed, dreams are Ne, the infinite possibilities that make this world better (and even Ni, the source...)

[The Reality Denialist]

I would be dead by now.

[niffer]

I think it's most reasonable to do something you're passionate about as much as real life restrictions permit because that's what you'll invest the most thought and energy into naturally-- which means there's an increased chance you'll end up doing it well and cause the rest of your life to be enriched by the process of positive growth into something you want to become as well as by the outcome. If you neglect your passions and desires too much, especially if you have the choice to pursue them, then it can make you a depressed and repressed person who will be filled with regrets: that's hardly an enjoyable or sustainable way to live. Often times life can augment your path for you though without giving you much of a say, and idk what to say about this. Just remember that everything human society has today was once something someone dreamt up. IMO by interpreting it in a more general sense, following your dreams is a part of the creative experience of existing and of being alive.

[Pallas]

I think it's most reasonable to do something you're passionate about as much as real life restrictions permit because that's what you'll invest the most thought and energy into naturally-- which means there's an increased chance you'll end up doing it well and cause the rest of your life to be enriched by the process of positive growth into something you want to become as well as by the outcome. If you neglect your passions and desires too much, especially if you have the choice to pursue them, then it can make you a depressed and repressed person who will be filled with regrets: that's hardly an enjoyable or sustainable way to live. Often times life can augment your path for you though without giving you much of a say, and idk what to say about this. Just remember that everything human society has today was once something someone dreamt up. IMO by interpreting it in a more general sense, following your dreams is a part of the creative experience of existing and of being alive.

Yeah, but I mean: going off in the mountains and spending all your time making bumper stickers. What kind of existence is that? Doing what makes you happy or what makes you feel like you're doing something important is very good, but this is the kind of job that seems like it'll be replaced by robots soon. All the "dreams" people come up with tend to sound like escapist fantasies that don't have much to do with real life and that people only think they want because they don't have to seriously contemplate what they'd really be like to live.

[Bertrand]

right another way to think of it is to not be afraid of seeking out the unknown or taking risks if its what you really want to do. of course it is bounded within the limits of reason. if my dream is totally impossible or otherwise unreasonable, following it is a bad idea, but courage is nevertheless a good thing and inasmuch as "follow your dreams" means have courage it is a point well taken. for those that suffer from a excess of courage or foolhardiness it needs to be balanced by an injunction to "be reasonable"--of course these are hazy general prescriptions that can go wrong in various ways, but inasmuch as they function within a certain context to orient someone to a proper course of action they are to be recognized as valid. the devil is, of course, in the details

[Muddy]

The better phrase to go by would be "Keep in touch with your dreams". Telling someone to follow their dreams often implies that they should ignore reality which is never a good thing. Making an effort to reminding yourself of the things you want to do while keeping your headed grounded around how you actually them however can be beneficial.

[niffer]

Yeah the last two posters above filled it in for me. You need to consider everything else in life and figure out how to pull your dreams into those limitations/structuring or figure out how to change your circumstances to make it work. Make your dreams follow you instead.

[Pallas]

Make your dreams follow you instead.

n4 4 President. n4 4 President 4 Lyfe

[ouronis]

I remember being told this and variations of "you can actually do anything you want." But this always was sort of a co-opting of my motivation. It's a way to get you to keep on looking forward. Past whatever trouble now. Into the future. Into conventional success and all this. Figuring out what you want has to come before this, and the conviction to really do this comes to people differently. It's often in the haphazard brushes of the feet of the giant of life against your tiny head that causes you to understand where you need to put your efforts. So I'm not totally against this saying. I'm just against telling it to people who haven't even begun to understand where their convictions really are.

[niffer]

n4 4 President. n4 4 President 4 Lyfe

* pastes eggplant emoji onto pic*

[Pallas]

I remember being told this and variations of "you can actually do anything you want." But this always was sort of a co-opting of my motivation. It's a way to get you to keep on looking forward. Past whatever trouble now. Into the future. Into conventional success and all this. Figuring out what you want has to come before this, and the conviction to really do this comes to people differently. It's often in the haphazard brushes of the feet of the giant of life against your tiny head that causes you to understand where you need to put your efforts. So I'm not totally against this saying. I'm just against telling it to people who haven't even begun to understand where their convictions really are.

People who know where their convictions are don't need to be told this though. If you're telling this to someone with convictions, that's generally a Bad Sign.

[ouronis]

People who know where their convictions are don't need to be told this though. If you're telling this to someone with convictions, that's generally a Bad Sign.

People go through their ups and downs. Nobody is 100% committed to all of their desires every day.

[Pallas]

People go through their ups and downs. Nobody is 100% committed to all of their desires every day.

Yeah but I still think that would mean not telling them to be committed to their desires, because that's just a natural part of life. You might as well yell at a plant to try to get it to grow. I think usually people want you to follow their dreams if they're telling you to follow your dreams, unless it's Disney, Oprah, or someone else who doesn't actually know you, then it's just you telling yourself.

[Spermatozoa]

My whole time growing up, probably like many (most?) people, I was told to "follow my dreams." Now I'm just trying to figure out, what does that even mean? I just found this Psychology Today article that says "Don't quit everything and make bumper stickers for environmentalists. That's just dumb." I аgreed with that since I don't think cutting out a bunch of cheap colored pieces of paper is the height of human achievement, but I was just like "wait, that's what that was supposed to mean?" I grew up thinking that the best dream you can have is whatever gives you the most interesting stories to tell to other people. Take the movie The Sound of Music. It's telling people to follow their dreams, but the entire movie is about her running away from the convent to marry the Navy guy, and then from the Nazis. I have no idea what happens afterward aside from a lot of Alp-climbing while singing in dirndls and lederhosen (please sign me up,) but just her singing with the kids over and over again simply wouldn't make an interesting movie. I might just have read too much Nietzsche and had too much disdain for Oprah growing up, but how do the people around you use motivational phrases like this?

You should always follow your dreams. Your dreams are unique and help define your identity as a person. However, it is important to not just envision what might be. Make the changes required to turn your dreams into something tangible.

Many brilliant ideas never get a chance to shine because their creator lacked the will to persist. The early stages of your career are not going to be pleasant. You have to grit your teeth, do shit, routine work, and make a lot of compromises about what, where and how you create. Acknowledgement from other people will be rare, and many will try to dissuade you from your goals. I know a lot of highly creative people, but the truth is that 99% of them are unwilling to take big risks (e.g. take on debt, pack up and move to another country, give the finger to anyone who gets in the way) and put in the hours (commit 3 hours every weekday at a minimum) that are necessary to succeed.

[Pallas]

You should always follow your dreams. Your dreams are unique and help define your identity as a person. However, it is important to not just envision what might be. Make the changes required to turn your dreams into something tangible.

Many brilliant ideas never get a chance to shine because their creator lacked the will to persist. The early stages of your career are not going to be pleasant. You have to grit your teeth, do shit, routine work, and make a lot of compromises about what, where and how you create. Acknowledgement from other people will be rare, and many will try to dissuade you from your goals. I know a lot of highly creative people, but the truth is that 99% of them are unwilling to take big risks (e.g. take on debt, pack up and move to another country, give the finger to anyone who gets in the way) and put in the hours (commit 3 hours every weekday at a minimum) that are necessary to succeed.

...Have you even read the rest of the thread? Never mind that, have you even read this post? Most people's ideas of "dreams" don't sound very appealing and following them just sounds like needless suffering. They sound like the cliched fantasies of world-weary people who are just looking to rest and not something that's even possible to fully pleasantly imagine, much less live. "I'll go to the mountains and make bumper stickers for the rest of my life!" OK, so you imagine a few sequences of making bumper stickers, then your death ("the rest of your life,") then you just get hung up on that because death is interesting and making bumper stickers is repetitive. Sounds like someone who's tired of life to me. My "passion" if anything is to grow and develop myself. If that means making some bumper stickers, great. But a life of just that is the kind of thing that can be replaced by robots. The whole needs to be more than the sum of its parts, and to do that, first it needs to actually have parts.