Sociotypes and their visual characteristics

[para]

Any examples of clear visual, facial or verbal characteristics of the types?
When VI-ing someone, what are clear giveaways for certain types?

[Sol]

In my signature you may find types examples.
The main VI way is your intuitive impressions from people - you should to feel in people types traits how they are described in books/articles. For example, read about dichotomy T-F. Look at a human and try to feel is he closer to description of T or F types.
Also you may find my IR test based on VI, which sometimes works good. The page with bloggers has the link to IR test at the top. Don't look in spoilers at bloggers page if you want to spent 8 hours on IR test.

[ooo]

https://personalityjunkie.com/02/fac...e-personality/

personality emerges from many things, not just facial expressions. dont expect to find clear traits in everyone because obv the same expression too can appear different on different faces.

what would be best is to create a medium value among the behaviors, what the person does, what he thinks, and how he looks, and MAYBE then youll be able to assert a precise type

[Tigerfadder]

There is all sort of nonsense. Thinkers have squared faces and ethics have round/long round faces.

I say if you going to VI someone you do it holistically and hopefully unbiased.

[Sol]

the same expression too can appear different on different faces

That's why you need to watch videos, but not a single photo with static expression. In normal conditions (where a man should behave naturally) you should to see common nonverbal behavior for that man, and hence his type. May not work good in rare cases of "strange" people, like extraverts which perceive themselves as shy - their nonverbal may to show the shift to introverted behavior. Such situations need higher typing skill to be not misleaded.
It's good to watch people for some time IRL, to see what and when they speak, what they do. But it's not obligately.

> MAYBE then youll be able to assert a precise type

said IEI with ESI in the profile *sigh*

I say if you going to VI someone you do it holistically and hopefully unbiased.

VI gave up to 20% (statistically good) of average typing match in my experiment. So there is objective base in typing by nonverbal. Physiognomy is not used by all who uses VI.

[Tigerfadder]

VI gave up to 20% (statistically good) of average typing match in my experiment. So there is objective base in typing by nonverbal. Physiognomy is not used by all who uses VI.

Well, have anyone else done "your experiment". Sorry but i stay skeptical that it is an objective base.

[ooo]

you should to see common nonverbal behavior for that man, and hence his type.

All people with same behavior= same type= BS.

We can behave the same and have different strategies, different modus operandi and different perceptions of the world around us. Different people can adopt a natural pose with their faces always pointing down and in one case this denotes shyness, in the other submission, and for another it could simply mean that the person is either hiding something or feeling guilty about it.

But you won't be able to assert this just by watching how people move, to observe this you actually have to dig in what they do, think and say, and see what combination takes account of all the incongruences that every person naturally has. This is obviously something you don't do because you don't understand people but are too confident in your opinion to admit.

said IEI with ESI in the profile *sigh*

Your opinion about my type goes in the trashcan : )

[Sol]

All people with same behavior= same type= BS

People of same type have _similar_ behavior in types related. Only behavior we can use for typing.
People with behavior stably fitting good to one type have that type with most probability. The more we know about people while having such fitting - the more probability that type is correct. Also typer's IR impressions is just one of ways of analysis of nonverbal behavior of other people.
BS is other approach for typing, as it would be irrational.

> We can behave the same and have different strategies

It's the question of what is types related, the borders of acceptable for the type and non-types factors. Anyway - all is around behavior and analysis with the understanding to which one of all types fits the behavior the best, and do we know enough to be sure this type is correct. The typing uses behavioral patterns of common for types. Nothing else can be used.

> Different people can adopt a natural pose

Different people will behave how it's optimal for them. If you have F function stronger, able to use it better than T function - _in general_ you'll express it more than T function, will use it more than T function, - as such is easier for you to achieve your goals. So all F people will behave similarly - you only need to watch them more to understand them _in general_, to see in different situations to understand what is more natural for them - to express F or T. Also taking into account this similarity, you may see a man and compare him with known T or F types people, - is his emotional behavior closer to average of T or F people.

> with their faces always pointing down and in one case this denotes shyness

For VI typing is used mostly fine nonverbal which is stable between people. And also used other behavior. You may get contradictions if a man behaves not like common for his type. If you'll know that man longer, will get more data, you'll know him better to get clear understanding of his type. There will be a chance for mistakes as your knowledge of people stays limited, but in good % you should be true about the type, if your typing skills and typing material are good.

> Your opinion about my type goes in the trashcan : )

Your previous opinion about your type as IEI went to a trashcan. While my opinion stays where was - with me.
You was sure in INFP for years, other people saw you same. Then you've written ILE and now... ESI what is baseless too. I suspect you are joking. You are funny girl, as I said befor. Sometimes you'll feel better, will dig your trashcan and return your correct type IEI.

[Sol]

Well, have anyone else done "your experiment"

Anyone may do it. I described all calculations and gave all raw data. This experiment was on socioforum in experiments subsection and named alike "Videotyping 2015". ~10 forum members too part and 16 random bloggers were used.
For comparision may be recalled SRT-99 where was used IRL express typing by interview. They got average match ~17%.
VI not only has objective base, but shows results not much worse than other methods.

[ooo]

Sol, you're so absolutely not making sense that I don't know where to start...

ok, let's keep it simple. you say: "if a behavior fits to a type and a person has said behavior, then a person has that type."

what I'd like to know is... how the hell do you ascribe IRRATIONAL behaviors, such as body language is, to any type? Because, be honest with yourself for once, if you're just checking for "non-verbal" you're only focusing on the most subtle part of someone. By socionics, that area pertains the ID, not the Ego.
But I'm pretty sure you don't even get an idea of how Model A works.

Obviously, with a lack of N on your part, the only thing you focus on is to see if "the image" (video or wtv) of someone matches your own experience of other people of a similar type. Obviously, your opinions of how all types should be just follow your personal impression, because there's not a single socionics article that says "EIIs don't talk, they whisper" or even anything that addresses any particular mimics to any sort of type .

Totally BS in the end, because you're obviouslly just going by IRRATIONALITY operating like this. So you're basically confirming that you spew BS all around.

I'm glad you reached this point after 20 years.

[ooo]

Your previous opinion about your type as IEI went to a trashcan. While my opinion stays where was - with me.
You was sure in INFP for years, other people saw you same. Then you've written ILE and now... ESI what is baseless too. I suspect you are joking. You are funny girl, as I said befor. Sometimes you'll feel better, will dig your trashcan and return your correct type IEI.

I dont even know why you have to defend your argument by mentioning my type, but you're *a funny person* so no wonder.

I am INFP in MBTI, not in socionics, where I've always scored EII. Other people saw me as ESI mostly, and you were the only one ever to say IEI. I took new tests after such opinions were given and then I scored ESI, IEI too. I guess you can call it power of suggestion because after some time I went back to scoring EII even in new tests.

I'm really against all the stereotypes you and socionics put people in, so if by calling you out on your BS makes me anything well I really couldn't care less.

[The Reality Denialist]

A very good article for @Sol

Hyper-rationality

[ooo]

@Sol, sorry for the bad words. I just wished you stopped telling people who they are as if you knew them better than themselves. I can't expect to change your approach, but I wished you could understand how this makes people feel. There's no "right" when you come about it in the wrong way. Well... this works for me too.

[Sol]

I just wished you stopped telling people who they are

I will not, as it's not reasonable. This forum is for exhanging by opinions about types. The price to be not pleasant to say important is ok for me. I prefer the truth, but not what people think they want now. I'm sure they want to live better and truth better fits to their needs.
Your emotionality shows that behind your opinion or actions are emotions, but not the logical truth. You are fooling yourself and/or others. You should sorry about this, but not about "bad words" about which I don't care, as I'm not in personal relations with forum members.

> if you knew them better than themselves

I understand the typology better than you and know enough to be sure in your type.

> I wished you could understand how this makes people feel

Your small pain to listen the truth (or alternative opinion) is acceptable cost to avoid (reduce possibility for) mistakes from mistyping and to don't mislead other forum members by evident bs in your profile. You are clear INFP.

[ooo]

I will not, as it's not reasonable.

it's obviously reasonable

This forum is for exhanging by opinions about types.

not really, that's just what you use this site for. I never came in here to be typed, being pretty sure who I am.

I prefer the truth, but not what people think they want now. I'm sure they want to live better and truth better fits to their needs.

You obviously don't understand people, so you don't know what's better for them.

You are fooling yourself and/or others. You should sorry about this,

Manipulation comes in Se/Fe. Telling me I should feel sorry for how I am is just emotional manipulation, perhaps you should change your own type.

I understand the typology better than you and know enough to be sure in your type.

How can you tell? You don't seem smart at all to me, I doubt you understand human things at all, and socionics is about people.

don't mislead other forum members by evident bs in your profile. You are clear INFP.

Yes, in MBTI, lol.