What makes 4D not 3D
I been thinking of this the last few days. 3D is defined such as experience*norms*situation and 4D is all that but also time. Not time as in Ni but time as in outside current situation i guess. What does this extra thing do that different 3D from 4D? Really?
Somebody do an example of the time dimension for all the functions please
Time as in able to make predictions for the future
I was curious about this too and did some research and found this:
http://en.socionicasys.org/teorija/d...hetyrehmernost
I always took it to mean that it's so strong the function is all around you in an ubiquitous manner. Whereas 3D is very strong but still limited too much in the immediate moment.
Like I know a lot of people didn't like the movie but that movie Lucy at the end when she exploded and she said 'I'm everywhere' on the cell phone lol.
I'm not quite sure how you'd move from inflexible unthinking norms to an ability to apply to situations and then not be able to apply that to situations across time, since it seems to me that all you need to apply a situation across time is an overview of the situation, which clearly you have if you're making decisions about it (to varying degrees which really only depend on penetration). I guess I don't see the space between understanding a situation and understanding situations.
Also think of it this way: It's so beyond the corporeal body of who you are that when you die, your most constructive work (how most others remember you by objectively) will be your 4d functions.
It's pretty immortal. On the other hand, your polr is so weak that you only remember it very emotionally and privately. Other people don't remember this about you unless they also had an emotional closeness to you, and even then probably won't really understand exactly how you processed it.
If you can compare the situation you're in to 5 other situations you've experienced and place it in context accordingly, you can respond more appropriately than you would if you responded as though it was the only time you ever faced anything like it?Originally Posted by ouronis
time is linked to notions of cause and effect, its the ability to see how events are linked in a way wholly encompassed by your dominant function. its how you can create an unbroken chain of events in your mind that makes sense or whatever the irrational equivalent is "to see the entire picture" stretching from the past into the future. semantically you can reproduce a similar effect by simply imagining yourself then and now but you have to actually take static snapshots to do it, and the picture is at any moment stilled because you have to stop in order to do it. this process is ongoing and dynamically updates itself in regard to the dominant function. in other words, your entire picture of the world is a cohesive whole encompassing the time dimension, whereas you only momentarily step into other peoples "worlds" when you speculate about past and present from the point of view of other functions. most the time it ends up just being projection or getting subsumed into the dominant function anyway, because, taking thinking for example, you view the world through another function first through that function, etc. in other words, its easier said than done
"grand ethical narratives" are the domain of dominant ethical functions. someone like descartes and his mathematics and philosophy would be an expression of Ti dominance etc. its a mini "theory of everything." Ni I feel like probably has to do with internal imagistic representations, "this person was a demon now hes an angel" in an ethical sense, but also how everything is a living symbol subject to change. its more about capturing the organic quality of things in flux than any specific symbol or this or that. dominant Ne I feel like is best encapsulated by the sense of ongoing wonder and renewal. dominant Se is how force guides everything. a lot of the "what rules the world" type questions are psychological disclosure of how people understand their dominant function in regard to time, because its a way to peg that transformation in time to a symbol (which becomes "God" in its significance)
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...-Types-Gulenko
in other words the overriding causal nexus that pervades time we might say is what "governs the world" i.e.: acts as a psychological God, i.e.: operates as the fundamental organizing principle
in the end we're all sort of speaking about the same phenomena its just that our spin on it is what personality amounts to, our differentiated perspective on the matter etc. this is why questions over god/no god this god or that god are sort of irrelevant because they're just proxies for psychological preferences that are in some sense illusory. gods are real whether theyre internal or external, inasmuch as people "worship" them, which is to say their lives are devoted to that perspective and they identify with that perspective as a matter of life itself--the ego. in other words, its fair to say the ego can project itself onto the universe in at least 16 different ways and that gives rise to 16 distinct gods and anti gods but no null gods because a null god would be a null ego. hence atheism is a bit of a misnomer, but everyone kind of intuitively knows this considering how secular ideology is just as fanatical as explicitly theistic theology in all the ways that matter
Last edited by Bertrand; 01-05-2018 at 11:19 PM.
As I understand, 3D function is used momentarily, 4D is used all the time. Your memories are kept through 4D functions, for example. In my case, consciously is Si (Ti is unconscious), so I keep trace of things via introverted sensing. Which means my own physical and psychological sensations. Things like color, smell, sound, image, comfort, discomfort, touch, impressions.
In the case of ethicals in 4D, their memories goes in feelings, Thinkers in facts and similar info, and intuitives through their possibillities, speculation, conscience of frames of time and similar.
Last edited by Hope; 01-05-2018 at 11:38 PM.
The following made up examples are how some of the 2D, 3D and 4D functions come across to me.
Example 1: Building a toy globe
2D: I pumped the plastic earth colored ball with air properly (just like everyone else) to create a model of the earth. Of course, mine is different. What do you mean why? Because it has slightly different color. (Meanwhile, it's floating around and no one can tell north from south, but at least there's a globe to use when necessary).
4D person to 2D person: Let me check it. Good job. Where and what will you use it for? I see. Just try to fix this little thing so that it holds up for the duration you need it.
3D: I set up the earth model to rotate on an unique stand I made. Now we can use it functionally as a globe for reference. It accurately represents the entirety of earth's movements.
4D person to 3D person: But is it going to revolve around the sun? Without that you can't say that you've made an accurate model. You can say you've created a model for earth's rotation but you can't say that it's an accurate representation of the entirety of earth's movements. You haven't factored in revolution and who knows what else.
Example 2: Drones
2D: I fly drones! I have 3 different kinds. You can only go up to X height because that's how much the drones can handle. (We'll skip regulations for this example).
3D: I figured out how to make my drone do (insert innovative movements and activities) at a certain height in a certain space.
4D person to 3D person: Well that's great. But is it going to hit the birds? Species X and Y fly in that space around that height during this season. Some of them may see your drone as a threat. How will you handle an attack from them? How will you prevent accidentally hurting them or scaring them away? My solution can handle that. Let me show you what I did.
Example 3: Forecasting consequences
2D: If X event happens, then Y follows.
3D: I see X event happening in Z unusual context, so something needs to be done! Because we can't do Y anymore. This is a problem. Don't worry, I came up with a solution but we need to act now.
4D: I see X event happening in Z unusual context, I see 3D person panicking, but I also see that this situation can self-negate itself and then turn into something good with some subtle guidance. So I'm going to position myself in this juicy spot to take advantage of everything that's going to manifest after the negativity is over. And I won't have to move much at all. Life is so good to me
4D is like 3D plus abstraction
I've heard people throwing this D stuff about, so I spent a few seconds reading about it on wiki. It basically means that your base function is switched on all the time. When you're not thinking (or feeling) - for you as an irrational, you're simply in a state of information using your base Ni. So the idea of the demonstrative function is that it's on all the time but you may not be aware, sort of like it's working things out in your subconscious.
You're best staying away from this - it's an exercise in theory that won't do much else than polute your mind.
I can see how it could help with PoLR though, PoLR is so bad that even developing an awareness of it is a step for improvement (but that's 1D stuff).
4D discerns stuff beyond present.
Simple as that.
BUT
Dimensionality is discrete but it is being applied to reality where discreteness does not hold water that well.
creative for example might have very forceful presence. However
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4D discerns stuff beyond present.
Simple as that.
BUT
Dimensionality is discrete but it is being applied to reality where discreteness does not hold water that well.
In other words, the base is 'on' all the time.
I just thought it was interesting how Ti and Te were explaining the same thing with their different approaches.
But, not that interesting.
There are some examples of ILE and LII interaction in the articles:
ILE: I checked the solution from a graph. It seem to be continuous. Curves will cut each other approximately at (1.3234, 546.1).
LII: I solved the problem using precise math and got this solution which is full of square roots and cubic roots inside of each other. I also made bunch of proofs because we can not be sure otherwise.
Of course both types need to at some learn to use both approaches but it tends to default.
But things can become a skill..
There was sequence a to which some sensor (LSI probs) said that we can not even guess where it seems to convergence. I made a quick an correct estimation and said it is obviously: -1.
Last edited by The Reality Denialist; 01-06-2018 at 11:05 AM.
MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
Winning is for losers
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4D is more global in thinking. And because inside and outside coincide, it is also more acting as a corrective, influential energy. It has all options/scenarios covered so there's maximum freedom to such an element.
Supposedly it means something about taking a global view or synthesizing everything into one coherent picture, as well as adapting to the particular situation.
But honestly I would not try too hard to interpret dimensionality - to me it just basically just means that it's strong/more successful at what it does. The specific levels do have something to do with it but it's not 1-1. Like yes, weak functions do go based off personal experience and are bad at making general conclusions. But it's not like the role function and mobilizing function are equally successful in this regard either, or the leading function and demonstrative function etc.
Does using language with multiple meaning imply high dimension? When both or all those meanings point toward the same phenomenon. Like merging. Since that imply you have a higher understanding of the things.
So I would settled with that the 4D see the full matrix in that area, if a function is seen as covering an area. Where as 3D is missing a dimension for to see the full matrix.
Meaning is Ni.
What gives you the impression that "Time" is not intended to elicit the same idea as Ni?
Ni is a sequence oriented element. It sees as it travels across cause and effect. But all elements can do this. What makes Ni different is not the motion, but the content.
4D Time and Ni Time are both referring to motion, not content.
Projection is ordinary. Person A projects at person B, hoping tovalidate something about person A by the response of person B. However, person B, not wanting to be an obejct of someone elses ego and guarding against existential terror constructs a personality which protects his ego and maintain a certain sense of a robust and real self that is different and separate from person A. Sadly, this robust and real self, cut off by defenses of character from the rest of the world, is quite vulnerable and fragile given that it is imaginary and propped up through external feed back. Person B is dimly aware of this and defends against it all the more, even desperately projecting his anxieties back onto person A, with the hope of shoring up his ego with salubrious validation. All of this happens without A or B acknowledging it, of course. Because to face up to it consciously is shocking, in that this is all anybody is doing or can do and it seems absurd when you realize how pathetic it is.
Because ethnic with time could be taking into consideration of how americans had slaves back in the days and so some ethics are not considered ok because of it. But time with time make no sense. If we say that Ni is causation than that is an other thing.
I have no idea what you asked.
Projection is ordinary. Person A projects at person B, hoping tovalidate something about person A by the response of person B. However, person B, not wanting to be an obejct of someone elses ego and guarding against existential terror constructs a personality which protects his ego and maintain a certain sense of a robust and real self that is different and separate from person A. Sadly, this robust and real self, cut off by defenses of character from the rest of the world, is quite vulnerable and fragile given that it is imaginary and propped up through external feed back. Person B is dimly aware of this and defends against it all the more, even desperately projecting his anxieties back onto person A, with the hope of shoring up his ego with salubrious validation. All of this happens without A or B acknowledging it, of course. Because to face up to it consciously is shocking, in that this is all anybody is doing or can do and it seems absurd when you realize how pathetic it is.
I like the dimensionality aspect of socionics, its more interesting to me and makes more sense than instinct stackings or whatever. maybe because the concept itself is very Ni. ymmv.
I view 4D as a flying moving steel box of protection... like this inner 'house' that protects you from all sides- and even outside of time it is so strong, that it protects you from many physical/mental attacks. or like those sparkly bomb things in super mario bros 2 that you can't step on or harm in any way lol. it is like immortality but with a bite as well.
3D I view it as a box - but with a hole in it that can be attacked, but it kinda thrives on it being attacked. It shifts around a lot - and has more defenses than weaknesses. lives in reality- but it will eventually decay over time. it will allow itself to be 'punched' like 25% of the time but also quickly recover from those attacks. It is very physical and heated, like a strong warrior.
I view 2D as you can run away from it or towards, and do some minor linear processes with it when you do approach it. However you greatly improve yourself focusing on a 2D function. You will also however greatly drain your own energy focusing too much on a 2D function. It tires easily- as it greatly lacks the defenses of 4D and 3D dimensions. You will naturally 'scroll away' from it like a 2D video game. It's like on a linear charge, and you need the right tempo/pacing to make the most efficient use of it.
1D is about as weak as you can get. it is only one direction- the direction to your heart. you can't defend against it at all or manipulate it anyway. its just gonna make you feel like shit. it is like a one way path to your heart. its this huge sign on your face that says 'kick my balls here' but well how much this 'glows' for others and how well they can hit it depends on a person's own type. however, if somebody makes you feel good about it since it is so weak, you will feel properly balanced and comfortable. (like a dual with their demonstrative.)
This is beautiful
marketing
This is beautifulThank you. <3 And notice I wrote the post with IEI 4D Ni primary and 3D Fe creativity. And you especially liked it because I'm your benefactor.
It wouldn't happen to be a blue box, would it?
kids, there are no dimensions in Socionics. There is strenght of the functions and their value state. There is model A, as max.
Don't mix Socionics with heresies and you'll do lesser mistakes.
Formal meaning is T. In the context +Ne.
While Ni - is subjective fantasy about something.
@Sol Ne does relate to meaning. In the way that @Tigerfadder described it sounds more like Ni though since it has to do with depth.
Heh dark steel grey actually. 3D box is like light orange/reddish. 2D/1D is boxless and colorless. They greatly lack the narcissistic strength of the other two.It wouldn't happen to be a blue box, would it?
Data is the raw fact,
Information is the fact in context,
Knowledge is a proper application of the information now,
Wisdom is the application for the future -- the predictive use of the knowledge.
This may have been what inspired the dimensionality concept.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIKW_pyramid
Ya it is not bad actually. They might have the same roots of ideas.
Mmhm, I just use it as a little bit of flourish to make myself sound like I know what I’m talking about. Shop talk, basically.
That's basically how everyone uses it lol
Oh boy. You know chess? I think it's stupid pointless tedium. There is one way to do it perfectly, and it's to go through all the moves, and then go and do the move that will achieve your goals. Someone actually trained themselves to be able to do this. He probably had fun, but I'd rather play a game without the tedium. And because I do no effort to figure out what will happen if I move a piece, I never win. I know what the opponent might do, but often make mistakes in trying to achieve my goals. I assume this is me just not enjoying something that deals in perfect logic, my own realm being imperfect logic, or doing things as quickly as possible with as little expense as possible.
4D Ti
Last edited by Alomoes; 05-30-2021 at 12:04 PM.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrenology
An optimist - does not get discouraged under any circumstances. Life upheavals and stressful events only toughen him and make more confident. He likes to laugh and entertain people. Enters contact with someone by involving him with a humorous remark. His humor is often sly and contain hints and double meanings. Easily enters into arguments and bets, especially if he is challenged. When arguing his points is often ironic, ridicules the views of his opponent. His irritability and hot temper may be unpleasant to others. However, he himself is not perceptive of this and believes that he is simply exchanging opinions.
http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.php?title=LIE_Profile_by_Gulenko
Well, in practice 3D is something you do not really care to perfect but it still moves you around.
MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
Winning is for losers
Sincerely yours,
idiosyncratic type
Life is a joke but do you have a life?
Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org
The map making process for a demiurge or any overlord of the overhauled fiesta of combos and cluck and bell from grand theft auto that we have shows us that Father Crow (God) rings the liberty bell and sees everything!!
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Marius Florin aka LeoSuperCluster as Raging Bolt the Raikou number 1021 and SolitaryWalker brought glory to the years of Silver and forged Pichu, wisdom of force and flair to exhibit dinosaur questing pointers electrocuting cinema and blueprints of emporiums to undertow flows jungle tossing galaxy spanning shivers of essence gems and portals of roads to destruction and arboretums folding castles and swordsmanship of dreams and counters to pleasant vibrations and holy water sprouting evanescent stars and puzzles of grades to saffron climax
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