I know a person but can't tell whether they are ISTj or ENTj.
I know a person but can't tell whether they are ISTj or ENTj.
Thats not our problem, qiuet frankly.
That was pretty jerked off, Cheerio.
I know. But maybe if he had asked differently, I would have answered differently. Sorry for being rude.
I don't know what you think I have said wrong. I would like you to tell me.
Last time you (Cheerio) said:
I guess we werent very nice to you Hugo. Im sorry if Ive hurt you somewhere along the way.
I guess sometimes I felt I wasnt being lsitened to when talking to you, and Im sure you felt the same way, as people really werent listening to you either. If you do something that bothers me somehow Ill be sure and tell you exactly what that is in a polite manner so we can have better dialogue and not feel like were misunderstanding each other.
Alright, ill explain myself. You can come off as a bit rude to me. I feel like you aerent aware that there are real people on this website. You ask questions in the most basic way, like this forum was a calculator. Take this question you just asked. Listen to yourself, to me it sounds like you aerent even motivated to answer the question yourself, you just figure "Its not so important, but hey why not if they can do all the thinking and writing while Ill just sit back and greedily soak up knowledge that others spontaneously generate." So basically, I stopped seeing your questions as my problem, as you do not seem to have a grasp on the concept of sharing, not to mention you do not seem motivated by the question in the least sense. Thats how it seems to me at least.
Dont get me wrong, I dont dislike you and I want to get along with you, thats why I say this, to show you my perception of things.
Believe me. I don't intend to be rude.
Also, I do share information with others. I dig out information to put on the forum.
I would like to know if others feel the same way as Cheerio. Please use your usernames (rather than use 'Guest').
Sorry Hugo, but your question sounds a little bit like "Ey I can't differentiate an apple from a banana, so tell me the difference!"
Its just as frustrating if someone calls a hotline and just says "My freakin Pc doesn't work", and thats the only info he has. Nobody will be able to help him, because they can't explain him the thousands of reasons this could have.
Why don't you just read carefully a few ISTJ and ENTJ Type - Profiles, or a bit about the functions underlying these Types.
I shouldn't be a problem to find many many many differences about this types.
And if yoo still don't know whats this persons type is, then look at how others with similar problems managed to solve this on the forum:
Simply write something about this person or post a picture.
I can answer this, because I have known ENTjs and ISTj ...
ISTjs will intentionally infringe upon you and feel that they have to push people around because no one cares about them; they will be verbally and physically abusive for little or no reason. They have a tendency to come off as idiotic and ignorant bigots and tend to suffer from a large degree of paranoia and skitophrenic tendencies. They will do what ever it takes to get the upper hand and will resort to pushing and shoving or bully tactics to get what they need. They run their life with military type organization and treat those close to them with the love of a marine core boot sargent, demanding that they follow orders and will infringe upon the personal space of others. ISTjs are typically people you do not want to have close to you or as a family member, otherwise they tend to make alot of money and are good providers.
ENTjs actually have some tact and have a better understanding on when to be pushy and when not to be; they like to take scientific approaches to things and are very critical towards someone who is not factually correct in their opinion.They are very direct and go for what they want without necessarily resorting to aggression, although they have no problem speaking their mind if or when someone or something gets in the way of their goals and will fight to get what they need; most ENTj are reasonable people. They are very flirty and have a good sense of humor, although they tend to get themselves into hot water alot when they go overboard. ENTjs also tend to be good providers, faithful to their wives and husbands, and tend to promote a good family atmosphere.
******, you sound as if you've had a bad experience with ISTj(s).Originally Posted by ****** - not logged in
I'd say, take the negative bias out of the discription and you're not TOO far off.
My dad's an ISTj. He's polite, organized, conscientious. He's rather reserved, but has leadership ability. He likes things done by the book.
TiNe, LII, INTj, etc.
"I feel like I should be making a sarcastic comment right now, but you're just so cute!" - Shego, Kim Possible
That was helpful.
My father is ISTj, and he acts the exact way that I described ... maybe you just had happened to have an ISTj father that actually has his act together.Originally Posted by XcaliburGirl
Other than that I wrote that with a bias to distinguish ENTjs from ISTjs, which was the thing origionally asked in the first place.
Hi, this is my first post after lurking for a while -- I'm male and consistently get classified as, and identify with, an INTJ. I have a few questions to ask but first I'd like to offer my opinion on this --
I have known both ISTJ's and ENTJ's, and I tend to agree with XcaliburGirl and Transigent.
One of my best friends is an ISTJ, and so was my last boss, and to me the general impression is of being organized, conscientious and reserved, and usually competent in their fields. For me, as an INTJ, though, what distinguishes them - in an annoying way - is their lack of vision, being S rather than, N - a tendency to miss the big picture and excessive concern with small details - a source of conflict between me and that boss. I tend to see ISTJs as too bureaucratic.
I had a work colleague that was clearly ENTJ, and to me it's a different thing altogether -- first, he was anything but reserved, being an E. Secondly, he was definitely able to see the big picture and not too concerned with details. The main source of conflict with me was his E tendency to act and speak without thinking things through, and his drive to impose his vision on others.
In situations of authority, I perceive ISTJs as competent but narrow-minded and pig-headed, too concerned with doing things by the book or "how they've always been done". But, even in positions of authority, they remain reserved.
ENTJs, on the other hand, do not come across as narrow-minded or reserved at all -- rather, as people who say, "I've got this great plan that will work, and you should all follow me in implementing it".
Those are some good observations. Can I ask you whether you're talking in a Myers-Briggs sense or a Socionics one?
Probably more Myers-Briggs since I'm still trying to grasp socionics better.Originally Posted by Herzblut
sorry, that was me above.
I know that this is a socionics site, but my impression is that the distinction does not invalidate the comparisons I made on those specific types
The descriptions were not totally compatible with socionics, but enough so; some of the explanations given sounded more perceptive according to socionics than they did judgmental.Originally Posted by Expat
The guest above was me ... sometimes the computer does not log me in.
MBTI tests consistenly classify me as INTJ, with very clear INT but the J/P predominance is far less clear. I usually identify most strongly with MBTI INTJ profiles such as the one posted in the INTJ vs INTP thread. However, in the descriptions of this site, I could identify with characterisrics of both the INTJ and INTP profiles.Originally Posted by Anonymous
I disagree about ENTJs making great bosses -- the problem is when you realize that their "grand ideas" are half-baked and not thought through.Originally Posted by ayoforjager
The fact that ENTJs are so aggressive in pushing their points of view does not mean that they're not harebrained. It is true, however, that they're not going to worry about petty details and unimportant things.
But I agree with you 100% on ISTJs -- that is exactly my impression, and I had an ISTJ boss. In his case, the "bogus thing I did wrong" was not to tidy up my desk. But the point is not that they're "better at coming up with ridiculous reasons" -- rather, that they don't realize that those reasons are ridiculous.
One of my best friends is almost a caricature of an ISTJ, and I suspect that he remains my friend out of a sense of duty rather than anything else since I'm sure he thinks I'm some sort of goofy dreamer and eccentric. We do discuss things rationally but there's always something missing.
But the point is, he actually asked me the other way why I eat my soft eggs the way I did - that is, by carefully breaking the shell of the eggs top rather than cutting off the egg's top. I'm serious. He actually noticed this and saw that as a reason to regard me as "eccentric".
I do agree that ISTJs are probably among the worst bosses one can have.