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Thread: Comparing Ni Ignoring to Ni Polr (introverted intuition)

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    Default Comparing Ni Ignoring to Ni Polr (introverted intuition)

    In theory which type would have more of a disregard for Ni?
    Last edited by Iwantpeace; 09-02-2020 at 10:21 PM.




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    &papu silke's Avatar
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    Ignoring function is more 'impenetrable' imo. I feel like LSIs are a lot more immune to Te than I am.

    The degree to which a person is shielded, i.e. is able to automatically ignore this aspect, also seems to be related to their subtype where the leading function subtype appears to be more shielded from and tolerant of their ignoring than the creative subtype that can get worked up about it sooner (so Fi-EII can put up with more Fe than Ne-EII, and Si-SLI can take more Se than Te-SLI).

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    neither party values Ni, which means they disregard it (in some sense) equally. Ignoring is capable of formulating a more sophisticated picture of an Ni perception if they choose to focus on it compared to Ni polr. Ni is nevertheless more conscious in the mind of the PoLR because it lies in the super ego. Ignoring gets the benefit of keeping it unconscious more of the time, since they tend to avoid problems on it via strong Ne. If you define "regard" as level of conscious awareness technically Ni polr "disregards" Ni less, but at the same time when they do treat on it, they're bad at it. Calling that disregard probably infers a level of intent that mistakes ineptitude for control. In other words, one gets the suspicion ESE doesn't "want" to deal with Ni but its more fair to say they suck at it. IEE is more likely to truly not "want" to deal with it, but since they rarely have severe problems on it, intent is less frequently imputed to them. in other words, "regard" is often subject to projections by the observer. deep down a function in your super ego actually means you have quite a bit of regard for that information, you just happen to not be good at it, so people think you're sandbagging

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    Apparently I have bad Ni despite the fact that I don't and I use the function all the time. *shrugs*

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    IXEs tend to treat all information as largely transient and replaceable unlike XSEs, who see information as valuable and tend hold on to it. Are types more Ni savvy when they may throw this information into the trash, or when they have limited ability to actually acquire the information in the first place; I tend to go with the former. Note that Ne and Ni are fundamentally the same information; the difference is how the information is handled - Ni is integral to input processes whereas Ne is just information.......
    a.k.a. I/O

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    Yeah I see Ignoring as shielded, self-reliant. So they don't disregard it for their own use they just roll their eyes at those who rely too much on it.


    To me ni polr usually is just not being comfortable with the unknown... they have to keep prying for more information and need to control their future by overpreparing. They are never satisfied with going into something with zero information, they love things to be known and decided.


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    not knowing what constitutes over preparation or not could be Ni polr. the awareness of the outer situation being inherently painful is Ne polr. Ne polr prepares in order to avoid painful possibilities, but generally knows when they've done so sufficiently (hyper rational LSI leaves nothing to doubt). the deal with ESE/LSE is they generally have a better lead on the outer situation they just fail as a matter of actually generating a plan that properly accounts for it. in other words, their plans can be insufficient for a variety of reasons. LSE more as it pertains to ethical endeavors and ESE as practical ones. theres a subtle shade of difference. the Extroverted egos Ni polr's tend to not realize when what they're doing is somehow contradictory or insufficient, but its in response to a real outer situation. Introverted ego Ne polrs tend to not be able to discern between potential extroverted negative possibilities, but they create sufficient Ni plans in order to counter all/most possibilities

    so you get ESE coming up with dumbass solutions to actual potential negative possibilities, and you got LSI coming up with rigorous solutions to dumbass negative possibilities. each sort of comes across as a kind of paranoia because its like they're obviously working overtime in response to something not necessarily merited or in a way not necessarily merited

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    Sometimes just watch my face... I tell you no more
    I manipulate certain things that I know puts things moving to certain direction but it is rare just for fun.
    I have tendency to put it into just to its limits... you know just to put in uncomfortable position while I don't really ever exceed it... where it starts to cause overbearing harm.
    I'm also bit protective towards others with this kind of information. I give certain warnings so they would not end up in uncomfortable position (just to consider).
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    More disregard: PoLR
    You have base, creative, mobilizing and demo for emergency as the functions the individual would rather use before that.

    Ignored simply sits in the shade of and can peek out if necessary after the base approach didn't work. It runs in the background anyways, so there is slight tolerance.

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    Listening Alan Watts is just lalalalalalalalaaa... lalalalalaa.


    He said something important? I think not. Direction is entirely wrong. We are just tiny specks not the entirety of the universe.
    But it is just something I have thought but I don't want to hear any new views because they give nothing but subjectivity within yourself.


    I want to hear PoLR take on Alan Watts?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
    More disregard: PoLR
    You have base, creative, mobilizing and demo for emergency as the functions the individual would rather use before that.

    Ignored simply sits in the shade of and can peek out if necessary after the base approach didn't work. It runs in the background anyways, so there is slight tolerance.
    lol by your own definition ignoring is the function you use last because you don't have to. you have to use polr more because its your 2d "activating" that shields it, vs base. In other words, if you have base creative mobilizing and demo before polr you have literally all 7 functions prior to ignoring. its by definition the one you choose not to use precisely because you almost never have to and you prefer not to. polr is at the very least mandated as a form of social control, being in the super ego block, not to mention its conscious so its being "used" for that fact alone

    its also sort of nonsensical to talk about "using" a function anyway, it seems like what you're really saying is does it manifest as a value in human behavior, and the answer to both is no, except that super ego functions manifest inasmuch as society requires it, which is more than one can say for ignoring. ergo it is "used" (manifest) more frequently, regardless of how shitty the 1d aspect to it is, its "used" because its required. its the difference between doing something you have to do poorly, versus choosing not to do something optional you could do well if you wanted but you don't. the former doesn't even have the option of being "disregarded" at a certain point. where ignoring is shielded by such a sophisticated base function such that that point rarely if ever arrives. most people who think people "use" ignoring are probably seeing just a complex usage of base anyway, or to put it another way ignoring is subconsciously realized as a byproduct of base, meaning it is debatable whether its "used" at all, it certainly isn't conscious in the way super ego functions are

    pain is by definition the one thing you actually least able to ignore out of all human experience. there's a reason they use the words "painful" and "ignoring"

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    Ignoring disregards more. PoLR doesn't trust it. The former is more of a whatever stance, while the latter is more wary.
    Projection is ordinary. Person A projects at person B, hoping tovalidate something about person A by the response of person B. However, person B, not wanting to be an obejct of someone elses ego and guarding against existential terror constructs a personality which protects his ego and maintain a certain sense of a robust and real self that is different and separate from person A. Sadly, this robust and real self, cut off by defenses of character from the rest of the world, is quite vulnerable and fragile given that it is imaginary and propped up through external feed back. Person B is dimly aware of this and defends against it all the more, even desperately projecting his anxieties back onto person A, with the hope of shoring up his ego with salubrious validation. All of this happens without A or B acknowledging it, of course. Because to face up to it consciously is shocking, in that this is all anybody is doing or can do and it seems absurd when you realize how pathetic it is.

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    ignoring ends up manifesting as a gut feeling that you know deep down is the most likely possibility, but is usually ignored for other more interesting possibilities that are less likely. So when something bad happens due to not listening to one's , it ends up resulting in deep regret.

    However, in the less likely moments where one does actually listen to their , it ends up paying off very well. With PoLRs, it is more like a obliviousness that something could potentially go wrong or right. So they either over prepare for a crisis that is not coming or they under prepare for a crisis that they were not anticipating.

    I find as I get older, I use to guide me far more often then when I was younger because I have realized from past experience that it is more useful than for predicting future outcomes. is better suited for other avenues like discovering hidden possibilities due to scheming and covering up that usually rejects and other instances.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sorrows View Post
    ESE, with a subtype of Fe should value Ni more than ESE-Si.
    My results are here: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...-test-results) but I question how accurate they are. According to this Ni is my suggestive.
    Saying that Ni is a valued aspect for ESE doesn't quite paint an accurate picture of what aspects represent within the model. The "valued" aspects for Alpha quadra are considered to be Ne,Si,Fe,Ti. The other four aspects Ni,Se,Fi,Te are described as "subdued" at least on Wikisocion. Some people take an issue with words like "valued" and "subdued" as not accurately presenting the relationships between the aspects, but suffice it to say that the 4 aspects that define a Quadra aren't in the same category as the 4 aspects that get 'squeezed out' and that define the opposite Quadra, and so if Ne is the dominating aspect of Alpha then Ni is repressed and cannot be equally valued. Some online tests pay very little attention to this - either whoever devised them hasn't really studied the theory or they wanted to make a simplified quiz and erased a bunch of nuances. I'd stick to studying model A and tracing the relationships between the functions and elements and ignore the online tests since there's no quality control with who puts up which test online.

    As for describing the relationship with opposing aspects floating somewhere out there in the information field, I prefer to use to word "shielded" as it encompasses both a higher degree of tolerance and the fact that information falling on "subdued" aspects is often processed and addressed via the dominant ones. So an IEI will attempt to think around the Te information with their Ti, or likewise an ILI will have to process Fe information with Fi, which in turn creates a kind of a protective shield for the PoLR aspect. The stronger accentuation on the activating function - the quicker this processing happens and the higher the tolerance for the PoLR aspect. So from this point of view ESE-Fe will appear to have higher tolerance to Ni since they can process some of that intuitive information through their own activating Ne, and thus also get high test scores on intuitive i.e.'s in general.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sorrows View Post
    Yeah, I don't think I am that inept at Ni, and I value Ne quite highly. Know of an ESE-si that clearly says stuff/does stuff without thinking at all about the consequences.
    From my view point ESE-Fes tend to 'slip away' from Ni. They basically try to run ahead of the consequences catching up to them, and having stronger Ne capable of seeing some other opportunity, some other way out, supports them in this. ESE-Si treat it as either something unnecessary in their lives and dismiss it, for as long as their can provide a measured lifestyle for themselves via creative Si they don't really need it at all, or they view it as some kind of superpower especially when it comes to long term planning and coordinating events in time.

    I do get slightly weirded out when a Si-ESE calls me and asks me why I'm not on my way to the train station to pick up a common friend, when it's like 1h40min before the train arrives, and the way there take 30 minutes 45 max with traffic, which gives me a little less than an hour to take a shower and get ready and talk on the phone with her. She just doesn't seem to be able to plan things out this way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sorrows View Post
    (1) Yeah, I don't think I am that inept at Ni, and (2) I value Ne quite highly. (3) Know of an ESE-si that clearly says stuff/does stuff without thinking at all about the consequences.
    Hi, can you

    (A) Expand on #1 and then contrast #1 with #3?

    (B) Expand on #2?

    I'd like to compare your perspective with how I see ESE's Ni. Thanks I think ESEs often have pretty good Ne and Te. I mean, it's not obviously full fledged 3D, but I've seen some pretty awesome stuff coming out of that, things that I wouldn't have come up with. There are some ways in which having -2D can trump +3D functions.

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