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Thread: Sx/Sp and Sp/Sx- Politics, social issues etc

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    Default Sx/Sp and Sp/Sx- Politics, social issues etc

    Just getting curious here- Social last types, what are your political or social justice opinions, and how involved are you in politics, if at all?

    Are you completely apolitical and disinterested, or are you more involved than the stereotypes would have us believe?

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    Not very involved, but I don't like the feminist thing because I think it's stupid, according to me at least the western countries are very equal for men and women and I think some people just want to blame something. Also I'm not into the "women must stick together" I don't want to stick together with anyone thanks. I agree with and find it interesting to watch people speak about these things,eg Jordan Peterson but I wouldn't actively partake in some cause or anything. I know a social last who joined a right-wing youth organization though, I don't know how active he was.
    I used to like arguing about it with my sister who is very leftist, I find it funny

    Another reason I don't like the feminist movement is because it scares men to approach women, and nowadays it's like people can't even make a joke or approach a woman without getting the misogynist stamp- it's ridiculous. Young men are already intimidated enough by women without this.

    Edit: btw, alot of social last women are feminists too. maybe not active but I've seen 6s 'expose' guys who came on to them in a "wrong" way. Because 6s are moralistic and they need supporters (people agreeing with their opinions) to have their security, and being anti-feminist is fairly unaccepted though it's becoming more accepted now
    Last edited by eko; 12-13-2017 at 09:22 PM.

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    I used to be very political when I was younger, but then somewhere down the line, I became very apolitical. If I had to say what broke the camel's back for me it was the 2000 election.

    The whole controversy with the electronic machines and it coming down to a recount and a supreme court decision left a bad taste in my mouth. Then the 2004 election between two skull and bones members (Bush and Kerry) was kind of the nail in the coffin for me.

    Since then, I've viewed political elections as mere sideshows that will make little difference in how countries and the world is run. The debaucle of the 2016 election was a good example of how much of a sideshow elections really are in the end.

    People complain about Trump all the time, but in the end of the day he is just a symptom of a corrupt political system, not the cause. Replacing him with someone else in a future election is not going to solve the core problems of society, it will only result in changes to minor issues.

    Lobbying has pervaded and corrupted politics to the point where corporations and wealthy individuals with their deep pockets will have more say in politics and government than the public will ever have.
    "Nothing happens until the pain of staying the same outweighs the pain of change."

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    Quote Originally Posted by JC1 View Post
    Just getting curious here- Social last types, what are your political or social justice opinions, and how involved are you in politics, if at all?

    Are you completely apolitical and disinterested, or are you more involved than the stereotypes would have us believe?
    Once in a while I might read something or respond to something, but I've other things I'd rather be reading about, talking about, or doing.

    While "Progressive" is the closest label (that I know of) that might describe my stances, I don't actually DO anything, belong to any Progressive groups, keep up on what's going on, etc. I'm 45yo and the 2016 election was the only time I got involved enough to go vote and maybe talk about Bernie Sanders a few times. On facebook I share/like some memes, and sometimes I share/like more than I wish I had, lol. Sometimes I share some just to piss off my libertarian e837 SLE older brother.

    My husband keeps up on what's going on (though not obsessively), and he'll make comments about 'recent events' and may eventually tell me a summary of what he's referring to. And I used to watch some of those satire shows that would touch on politics.

    My recent argument in another thread was political in topic, but 75% of the time I ignore the political topics on this forum. The only reason I went on that thread in the first place was because it was in 'socionics general' and was titled to be about Delta/Beta. (It did, however, help me figure out my stance on affirmative action policies. I'm now no longer ambivalent about them, but am glad they were implemented 50 years ago.) And I suppose this thread.

    When it comes to social issues, I've got a few pet peeves. Primarily about separation of Church and State, "a vote for x is a vote for y" bullshit, getting money out of politics, and things related to disabilities, social security, and medical. Oh, and what got me into politics in 2016 was my anger about how my 21yo daughter works a full time job at minimum wage, but still requires a co-signer to get one of the cheapest 1 bedroom apartments in town. I didn't have a problem getting cheapass apartments when I was her age, the price disparity has gotten out of proportion! That and the church/state thing are my biggest peeves.

    That about covers it.
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

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    My brother (SX/SP) pretty much ignores world news and anything that goes beyond his closest interactions, the only activism he'd ever join would be abolishing schools because they prevent him from finding comfort at home + playing with his 2-3 friends, and very intense sessions of gaming. It ties into him being a sensing type a lot. His enneatype is 8

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    Nope, not interested in politics. Don't vote. Don't watch the news. It's just not important to me.

    C-EII-INFj 4w3 Sx/sp 479

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    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    When it comes to social issues, I've got a few pet peeves. Primarily about separation of Church and State, "a vote for x is a vote for y" bullshit, getting money out of politics, and things related to disabilities, social security, and medical. [...] That and the church/state thing are my biggest peeves.
    Why is the separation of Church and State a problem? I'm not from the U.S. but I've heard they are still pretty religious out there. Wouldn't that be the progressive move, according to your "progressive" politics to have them separated?
    Except for impaired empathy, an ordinary guy who's looking for down-to-earth, loving, loyal friends and a geeky, warm, voluptuous girlfriend!

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    Quote Originally Posted by eko View Post
    I agree with and find it interesting to watch people speak about these things,eg Jordan Peterson but I wouldn't actively partake in some cause or anything.
    I've seen his name popping up on YT recommendations a lot, as well as his face in the thumbnail but seriously, people, WHO THE FUCK IS JORDAN PETERSON????!! And why is everyone talking about him, paying him all that undue attention. Seriously, I think I had once clicked on a video with him but I was like eeww, what a skeezy, slimy guy, ewww, why is he always in a shirt looking like this burnt out alcoholic pretending to be professional... urghhh. Is he going to be the next president? I bet that's how Trump became the president, everybody hated him but they kept watching, and he gave a reason for people to point fingers on anything other than themselves and I guess they elected him to keep on having the pretext to deflect and gossip. Now this is what I hate about the socials, they always justify how bad bad can be so that it to flip over to be good. So bad that it's good = ironic camp. They get off on watching shit, then tweeting about.

    Another reason I don't like the feminist movement is because it scares men to approach women, and nowadays it's like people can't even make a joke or approach a woman without getting the misogynist stamp- it's ridiculous. Young men are already intimidated enough by women without this.
    That's true. I've already had my share on Personality Cafe. Now I'm getting up to date about this whole new PC-ness through Jon Haidt - interestingly, he also got pissed off by it. This is one of the bane of typology forums: a lot of millenials, a lot of misdirected or directionless, uneducated, immature people feeling like all of a sudden they need a personality. They need a face out there. And they almost always, inexorably, go for something special, outstanding and they just can't be, for the love of God, can't be real on these sites. About life, about misery, about being the underdog, the usual daily stuff.
    Edit: btw, alot of social last women are feminists too. maybe not active but I've seen 6s 'expose' guys who came on to them in a "wrong" way. Because 6s are moralistic and they need supporters (people agreeing with their opinions) to have their security, and being anti-feminist is fairly unaccepted though it's becoming more accepted now
    I thought social 6s, more precisely the 6+2 "Republicans" are the moralists, aren't they? There aren't much social last women out there, as much as I've reckoned. 5s may think they are.
    Anyways, knowing that this whole "protective vindictiveness" has already been criticized in 2016 as psychologically incorrect (by Haidt), I'll be turning more active politically..., well, just a bit, to broadcast the message on these typology forums that banning people for flirting with women is just not awesome. If they do it against being declined, then I agree, but done once, tentatively is not an offense. Of course, for the socials, it to be an offense is politically motivated. They'd get the smart people's reputation down so that their criticism would not be listened to.
    Except for impaired empathy, an ordinary guy who's looking for down-to-earth, loving, loyal friends and a geeky, warm, voluptuous girlfriend!

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    Jordan Peterson is a dude who is viewed as a jackass by the left but he occasionally gives good advice, heh ^_^ .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neokortex View Post
    I've seen his name popping up on YT recommendations a lot, as well as his face in the thumbnail but seriously, people, WHO THE FUCK IS JORDAN PETERSON????!! And why is everyone talking about him, paying him all that undue attention. Seriously, I think I had once clicked on a video with him but I was like eeww, what a skeezy, slimy guy, ewww, why is he always in a shirt looking like this burnt out alcoholic pretending to be professional... urghhh. Is he going to be the next president? I bet that's how Trump became the president, everybody hated him but they kept watching, and he gave a reason for people to point fingers on anything other than themselves and I guess they elected him to keep on having the pretext to deflect and gossip. Now this is what I hate about the socials, they always justify how bad bad can be so that it to flip over to be good. So bad that it's good = ironic camp. They get off on watching shit, then tweeting about.
    Peter Josephson is a professor and psychologist who got famous for his stance against the Canadian Bill C-16. What the bill says exactly, I'm not sure. It seems vague to me. Anyway, yeah it does seem to me like Jordan Josephson, like Donald Trumps, knows how to manipulate the media. He knows how to get the spotlight to shine in his direction. He's a psychologist after all, so I guess he knows how to manipulate people. I have a theory that came to me just now. Maybe they say things on purpose that they know people will take out of context or unfairly slam them for. And then they can say, "Look how unfairly I'm being treated. I'm harmless. I'm a victim. Everybody is treating me badly and unfairly." I guess it distracts from the actual horrible, violence-supporting things that they say. Plus it gets them attention. That's what they want. That's what every troll wants.
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    Quote Originally Posted by andreasdevig View Post
    Peter Josephson is a professor and psychologist who got famous for his stance against the Canadian Bill C-16. What the bill says exactly, I'm not sure. It seems vague to me. Anyway, yeah it does seem to me like Jordan Josephson, like Donald Trumps, knows how to manipulate the media. He knows how to get the spotlight to shine in his direction. He's a psychologist after all, so I guess he knows how to manipulate people. I have a theory that came to me just now. Maybe they say things on purpose that they know people will take out of context or unfairly slam them for. And then they can say, "Look how unfairly I'm being treated. I'm harmless. I'm a victim. Everybody is treating me badly and unfairly." I guess it distracts from the actual horrible, violence-supporting things that they say. Plus it gets them attention. That's what they want. That's what every troll wants.
    Peter Josephson?? D What was his dissertation about? I'm sure it must've been something about the art or psychology of persuasion.
    Except for impaired empathy, an ordinary guy who's looking for down-to-earth, loving, loyal friends and a geeky, warm, voluptuous girlfriend!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neokortex View Post
    Peter Josephson?? D What was his dissertation about? I'm sure it must've been something about the art or psychology of persuasion.
    About Bill C-16 you mean? His critique of it was something about freedom of speech and that one shouldn't be forced to use words or names or pronouns or what not. Whether the Bill actually goes against freedom of speech, I don't know for sure.
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    Quote Originally Posted by andreasdevig View Post
    About Bill C-16 you mean? His critique of it was something about freedom of speech and that one shouldn't be forced to use words or names or pronouns or what not. Whether the Bill actually goes against freedom of speech, I don't know for sure.
    I checked it. I think Jordan Peterson does the right thing in this case, in advocating against... well, if not precisely against the Bill C-16, but the more general "vindictive protectiveness" of transgender and non-gender-binary people's entitlement towards criminalizing someone because of misnaming their gender. There's a simple way of slipping out of this conflict: just call people based on their sex. Gender is cultural and you can always say you have perceived the person as physically male, even if they claim to be a transgender "woman." Just say that you though they were transvestites who still identified with being male. I mean what's the offense in insisting on calling someone based on their sex of birth? No plastic surgery is perfect.
    Except for impaired empathy, an ordinary guy who's looking for down-to-earth, loving, loyal friends and a geeky, warm, voluptuous girlfriend!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neokortex View Post
    I checked it. I think Jordan Peterson does the right thing in this case, in advocating against... well, if not precisely against the Bill C-16, but the more general "vindictive protectiveness" of transgender and non-gender-binary people's entitlement towards criminalizing someone because of misnaming their gender. There's a simple way of slipping out of this conflict: just call people based on their sex. Gender is cultural and you can always say you have perceived the person as physically male, even if they claim to be a transgender "woman." Just say that you though they were transvestites who still identified with being male. I mean what's the offense in insisting on calling someone based on their sex of birth? No plastic surgery is perfect.
    In my opinion, people can identify however they want. But I of course believe in free speech, so I'm not for criminalizing certain speech. Anyway, as a 4 So/Sp, do you have any advice on how to differentiate between the different instinctual stackings of 4, in laymen's terms ('cause I'm stupid)? There is so much different, confusing and contradicting information out there. I'm pretty certain I'm a 4w5, but don't know if I'm So/Sp, Sp/Sx, Sp/So, etc.
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    Quote Originally Posted by andreasdevig View Post
    In my opinion, people can identify however they want. But I of course believe in free speech, so I'm not for criminalizing certain speech. Anyway, as a 4 So/Sp, do you have any advice on how to differentiate between the different instinctual stackings of 4, in laymen's terms ('cause I'm stupid)? There is so much different, confusing and contradicting information out there. I'm pretty certain I'm a 4w5, but don't know if I'm So/Sp, Sp/Sx, Sp/So, etc.
    I might be able to help you a bit but I wouldn't want to derail this thread. Back to Jordanson. The problem is, the conservative side isn't really dealing with the biggest issue underneath it all. While people rage about SJWs, "trannies," the new PC-ness, internet authoritarianism, something important gets wiped under the carpet. And it is: money. While we fixate our gaze on the shifts of social culture's horizon, we tend to forget what REAL ACTIVISM was all about: not allowing some too much profit to amass, taxing the rich more, creating socioeconomic equality, as much as possible. Ofc, the this cultural circus is just the manifestation of the money problems, working class low wage, long shifts, etc. I think Jordanson knows this... I didn't listen to all his babbling but extroverts do just that: the more they talk-talk-talk, the more they delay ACTION. Chatting, doing "discourses", "giving commentary on events," "punditism" is how the extroverts contribute to public life. You never see Mr. Jordanson helping out on a construction site, in Chic-fil-a, do you? Neither do you see Mr. Slavoj Slavoj Žižek doing that - all they do is talk and write shittons of books. I've read Žižek and I know that he cheats. These are public figures, as well as pseudo-intellectuals (demagogues). The real intellectuals are the anthropologists who actually descend to the slums (e.g. cross the border with Mexicans) to make their report (but between them too there are some who do it for fame). So taking the right side on this "vindictive protectiveness" debate in his case is just image polishing, changing dots.
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    As stated in Soviet Russia, you don't care about politic, politic care about you.

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    @inabox What good advice does Peter Jordanson give, in your opinion?

    @Neokortex Some good points, though I wouldn't demonize extroverts or introverts.

    Im curious what people think of this experiment to possibly determine one's instinctual dominant drive. Starts at 6:38.

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    Quote Originally Posted by andreasdevig View Post
    @Neokortex Some good points, though I wouldn't demonize extroverts or introverts.
    But perhaps it's exactly something as strong as demonization that is needed sometimes to attract attention on an issue. Of course, it's not all up to extroverts. They are being lifted up by the masses. There's a complicity that is taking place, between these more exhibitionistic social types and the more servant, self-deprecating social types. The latter need these "visionary leaders" to use them as pretext/green light for collective projects and to delegate responsibility on when the project doesn't work out because of internal corruption.
    Except for impaired empathy, an ordinary guy who's looking for down-to-earth, loving, loyal friends and a geeky, warm, voluptuous girlfriend!

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    I have a passing interest in politics, basically just enough to see through the bullshit for what it is. Politicians are delusional and power hungry individuals that try to convince you that their lies are the best ones. I probably have a more extreme opinion on criminal justice than the most seeing how I want to bring back beheading and hanging for some crimes (terrorism to name one). I'm more uninterested in social justice I think it's just a bunch of whiny people in a he said she said situation most of the time. What does bother me is when people in place of authority misuse that authority in some way that I consider rude or violating, this can cause me to act in some unforseen way as a counterpart, evening the scales once again.
    "The society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools." ―Thucydides



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