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Why I got into university and dropped out
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Last edited by Reyne; 04-03-2020 at 05:48 PM.
The world where you father lived is different than the world of today. That should have been your answer, imho...
But he's right in the sense, you can change your course some times, but not too many times, since you're going to be less competitive compared to people who have spent more time developing specific skills.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
A Father's disapproval, classic.
Chart your own path. Europe is so lock step from a young age. Your life isn't over now that you've dropped out and having "the perfect job" is just another fantasy narrative people tell themselves to keep the Emptiness at bay. I've always trusted my gut feelings and that's taken me many places so I admire you are doing the same thing.
Young people are supposed to change their mind often and not every human being is cut out to be a technician at 19 years old. Worrying - obsessing about the future, something that is not real and has never happened is a classic symptom of this. You are your own man now, and ofc disapproval stings. I'm a decade older than you and I still get disapproval from my parents over stuff.
@Reyne, my own story is similar.
My parents thought that what had worked for them was the only path to success and security. They also wanted me to become what they had not been able to achieve. As a result, I was pressured from a young age to become a university professor. The pressure started when I was eleven or twelve and knew nothing about what I could do in the world. Becoming what they wanted me to be was the basis for my life until I was halfway through the university, had met a lot of professors, and absolutely knew that I didn’t want to spend my life with people like them and needed something more hands-on, where I could directly influence the world. But, I had no idea what that could be, because I had been so focused on the goal that I had never looked left or right.
I experienced a crisis and dropped out, went back, dropped out again, went back, and eventually graduated because I thought having a degree was better than not having it. Then I bought a fast sports car in case I needed to die in a fiery crash and got a job in a factory. Within three years I was in charge of the machining department, in four I was in charge of production, and in five I was in charge of Engineering and Development. (I had never taken a single Engineering course, but if you have a degree in Astrophysics and are willing to learn, then Engineering is pretty easy. I also worked for some great people who showed me how things were done.) I had accidentally found work that I both loved and was temperamentally good at.
I know a very successful ILI who told me that the secret to his success was that he always followed the “A”’s, by which he meant that he tried a lot of things and simply did more of what he was good at. Eventually, it led to financial success, too. Plus, he’s pretty happy, which doesn’t hurt.
What you Reyne say is typical scenario with parents and choosing schools. Parents usually are directed by their own preferences and ambitions and idealize child to do nearly anything regardless the child is suited for this or not.
I think not going to art school was bad choice. Being educated artist makes you money even in a small city. You can also work remotely in this job. The best results are if you are both educated in art and also talented. Same with music, you can make money even in small city (but having a car).
I don't know why you think artists are jobless, it's actually the opposite, it's just a matter of going onto job market for a while and discovering opportunities.
Yes. I've had a really hard time choosing a career path.Originally Posted by Reyne
I started out my adult life wanting to be an actor and even signed up for theatre classes at a private acting school, which drained my family of all further funds for college(I had first gone to a visual arts school to study photography but I hated the mentality of the school). The school was divided into camera acting (for film) and theatre acting. We in theatre almost never interacted with those in camera acting. In theatre a clique formed which took up most of the class but I didn't really share their values. There was a girl I had a crush on in the class but she always hung out with this guy who was a professional model/actor. Another clique. The first trimester was bearable, but the second I found one of the teachers (an Se-SEE, I've spoken about him before, one of the only times I've had a problem with this type in a work related scenario btw), who we had to spend several weeks with, unbearable. So I left. I didn't wanna do acting anymore.
I was into industrial music, so I took some music classes after that. But I couldn't find an entourage or a public for the type of music I wanted to do. So I decided not to go the route of frustration. Another path.
Four years ago I decided I needed to stop pursuing career paths that brought no money, so I decided I would combine art with value. I was aware of studies to become a librarian near where I lived and I undertook a two year degree in it. I passed my degree. But I still couldn't find a job, so I decided to pass the bachelor's degree in library science which is more oriented towards archive/documentary science. I found out through experience I hated that, since what I like is to be in contact with people and doing many different types of tasks. Documentary science is very repetitive and very solitary. I'm not a specialist, but a polymath. Jack of all trades if you will.
After this I cursed my time in the art schools and pursuing what I then saw as useless degrees with no economic viability. But then I thought: what I did taught me alot. I wouldn't be the person I am now if it hadn't been for all this time chasing my dreams. I discovered alot about myself. Fact is, I found out I was very different from what I thought I was, I just had alot of assumptions that I was a certain way when in fact I was very different. All that I have discovered through experience, and not because I knew myself from the get-go (I didn't).
Now, I've got my associate degree in library studies, and I'm interested in working in sales. I worked at a bakery for a little bit, and I really liked the fact you do different types of tasks and are in contact with people. Being contact with people is stimulating. I really enjoyed that.
I'm also seeing a job counselor and she keeps advising me to look for more administrative work, since she says I have the profile, and since I'm kinda shy, she thinks I wouldn't be good at sales. But I think I would be bored behind a desk all day. I'm more drawn towards sales than administration.
I guess, what I'm saying is: don't curse your experience in life. It is yours. You own it. I don't know why else I'm saying this, but I also went through alot of crap trying to find my career path. But I learned alot. Most people wont really tell you you need to try things to discover yourself, it takes alot of daring and most people haven't the guts to admit it. It seems you've got alot of experience under your belt whether you realize it or not, so keep that in mind.
Last edited by WVBRY; 04-02-2018 at 03:37 PM.
The challenge is that any career requires sticking to it and pushing through difficult times, especially in the beginning. But then on the other hand, if the work simply is not the right for you, then it's better to change.
I find that for me it was important to find something that I actually like doing, not just the idea of it, but the actual concrete work every day from 8-16. It doesn't have to be super inspiring as long as I like concentrating on it. It has to suit me mentally. Then I can continue doing it, improve and have some kind of career.
My problem was always that work was either too demanding and stressful. Or it was too boring.
I've gotten stuck several times, been in doubt and changed jobs. My CV is a mess. I have three degrees, all in different fields. I've wasted many years but on the other hand I've learned other things from it.
If I could re-live my early life I would have started working earlier and just tried many things. Gotten used to the normal skills that any worker needs.
The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.
(Jung on Si)
Chemistry does not have insane amount of math. I know someone who has master's but never learned how to do something as simple as integration for example. If you have good memory for images you can easily pull through via organic chemistry. Only area where you need somewhat good math skills is in physical chemistry (=good stuff). [Although I'm amazed how he did it as they have intermediate compulsory courses which can be passed with routine. Well, he had zero motivation for it.]
Same goes even more so with bio sciences (unless you want to specialize).
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I feel like I've passed that college honeymoon phase. Especially since a lot of the stuff I'm actually interested in (like animation and graphic design) don't really need a degree; just a portfolio, a web of connections, and the ability to market yourself effectively. I'm questioning whether I should continue this, considering the other people around me in similar fields (like my s/o) are already starting businesses, marketing themselves, doing commissions, etc.
I especially don't want that debt. If I were to just practice more and capitalize on the connections we already have, I'd be just as likely to get a career in those fields without the excess expenses... just what I've already racked up now, anyway. I can't focus on what I need to right now either, and it's making me lose focus in what I care about.
I never bothered going to college in first place. I simply can't tolerate the suckage of going to school, not to mention tuition cost which turns the whole deal a risk. The whole "choose your career" fiasco feels like a pick your poison thing to me. Literally no job out there that has any sort of demand sounds even the least bit appealing to me.
My strategy right now is to just keep accumulating raises with the basic inventory job I got at Best Buy and just say fuck it to everything else. Even with me being part-time here I'm able to save money, as I'm quite good at hoarding things to myself. If I ever become full-time here I'll be banking it. Fuck college.
The way most people I've heard talk about school and careers makes them sound like they're already dead. It might as well be a remnant from the medieval era or something... oh wait, it is. And even if you want to link to a page proving it isn't, it might as well be.
People always talk about "devoting your life" to something, or more casually, "what you're going to do with your life." The fact is, I don't want to do anything with my life, not in the sense that I don't want to do anything, but I don't want to be like "OK, here's one life. Now, let me do this." I thought that was called selling your soul to the Devil, and that's never appealed to me, because I really like my soul, even if the benefits sound great.
When I first started college, I knew exactly what I wanted to do after college, and it's still what I want to do now. I wanted to go learn some languages and (applied) linguistics, then go off and apply to the military and the government. I don't have a specific job in mind, just a specific thing I'd like to do, which is travel around, translate languages for people, do important tasks, meet all the important people, be an important person, and just generally have adventures for a job. I accept that there's going to be some sort of risk even if it's minimal, like there is with anything that's worth doing, and calculating risk is part of why I haven't picked out an exact position at this time (also, adventures doesn't just mean sleeping in a cave and shooting a bear. I'm mostly looking a little tamer than that, though that sound fun too.) Is that "what I want to do with my life?" No, because that assumes a future viewpoint. You don't just always want to think about the future. You want to live so you can enjoy your life now. I have lots of things I like to do and would like to do. I got nominated 16types Poet Laureate, but trying to be a professional poet is an awful idea and I know from how a bunch of wanna-be professional poets at my university whine all the time. Poetry is pretty easy to write though, so it doesn't even matter. I write stories too, but nowhere near consistently enough to be a Stephen King or something, though I'm not "not into it." I just get occasionally inspired and what I make then is really good. I keep up with politics, I keep up with science and technology, I make art and would like to sell it, I play music for entertainment and would play at a wedding or funeral or something if asked though I don't particularly care to sell it since it doesn't take money or materials to make music like it does for art. I read about fashion, I read about sports, I play sports, and I can write calligraphy when I hand-write things for people. People have both asked how I manage to do so many things, and congratulated me for definitely not being a dabbler, though you can believe whatever you want on the Internet.
It's also completely non-advantageous to do one thing for your entire life, regardless of what you think of my billion hobbies and activities. Are you glad you went to high school or middle school or were a baby or whatever? Would you like to spend the rest of your life that way? If you answered "yes" to the first and "no" to the second, then congratulations, you're a sane, normal person. What about being single? If you're single, do you like it? Would you like to be single forever? Maybe, maybe not. Both of those are OK. I think "finding something to do with your life" instead of just following your desires (not what you think your desires are. If you actually want something, rather than just the idea of it, you'll be able to stick with as many or few things as much as you want) is said from the perspective of people who visualize themselves as dead already. On the one hand, I very much approve of some carpe diem-y, Buddhist meditation-y idea of seeing yourself as dead. On the other hand, if we're going to die tomorrow, today we drink, so screw living like that. The only way you'll successfully live the way you want to is not to try. The thing about events is that they can be described and written any number of ways. You could live your life in order for someone to make book or movie A about it, but then your life sucks because you're just trying to approximate something that's not a life, and people have to make book or movie B to clean up after you, but no one watches it anyways. What you should do is just live the best life you can, and then the story will write itself. If you're not happy about your past, you're not happy in the present. That's impossible.
All the world’s a stage,
And all the men and women merely players;
They have their exits and their entrances,
And one man in his time plays many parts,
His acts being seven ages. At first the infant,
Mewling and puking in the nurse’s arms;
And then the whining schoolboy, with his satchel
And shining morning face, creeping like snail
Unwillingly to school. And then the lover,
Sighing like furnace, with a woeful ballad
Made to his mistress’ eyebrow. Then a soldier,
Full of strange oaths, and bearded like the pard,
Jealous in honor, sudden and quick in quarrel,
Seeking the bubble reputation
Even in the cannon’s mouth. And then the justice,
In fair round belly with good capon lined,
With eyes severe and beard of formal cut,
Full of wise saws and modern instances;
And so he plays his part. The sixth age shifts
Into the lean and slippered pantaloon,
With spectacles on nose and pouch on side;
His youthful hose, well saved, a world too wide
For his shrunk shank; and his big manly voice,
Turning again toward childish treble, pipes
And whistles in his sound. Last scene of all,
That ends this strange eventful history,
Is second childishness and mere oblivion,
Sans teeth, sans eyes, sans taste, sans everything.
The way most people I've heard talk about school and careers makes them sound like they're already dead. It might as well be a remnant from the medieval era or something... oh wait, it is. And even if you want to link to a page proving it isn't, it might as well be.
People always talk about "devoting your life" to something, or more casually, "what you're going to do with your life." The fact is, I don't want to do anything with my life, not in the sense that I don't want to do anything, but I don't want to be like "OK, here's one life. Now, let me do this." I thought that was called selling your soul to the Devil, and that's never appealed to me, because I really like my soul, even if the benefits sound great.
When I first started college, I knew exactly what I wanted to do after college, and it's still what I want to do now. I wanted to go learn some languages and (applied) linguistics, then go off and apply to the military and the government. I don't have a specific job in mind, just a specific thing I'd like to do, which is travel around, translate languages for people, do important tasks, meet all the important people, be an important person, and just generally have adventures for a job. I accept that there's going to be some sort of risk even if it's minimal, like there is with anything that's worth doing, and calculating risk is part of why I haven't picked out an exact position at this time (also, adventures doesn't just mean sleeping in a cave and shooting a bear. I'm mostly looking a little tamer than that, though that sound fun too.) Is that "what I want to do with my life?" No, because that assumes a future viewpoint. You don't just always want to think about the future. You want to live so you can enjoy your life now. I have lots of things I like to do and would like to do. I got nominated 16types Poet Laureate, but trying to be a professional poet is an awful idea and I know from how a bunch of wanna-be professional poets at my university whine all the time. Poetry is pretty easy to write though, so it doesn't even matter. I write stories too, but nowhere near consistently enough to be a Stephen King or something, though I'm not "not into it." I just get occasionally inspired and what I make then is really good. I keep up with politics, I keep up with science and technology, I make art and would like to sell it, I play music for entertainment and would play at a wedding or funeral or something if asked though I don't particularly care to sell it since it doesn't take money or materials to make music like it does for art. I read about fashion, I read about sports, I play sports, and I can write calligraphy when I hand-write things for people. People have both asked how I manage to do so many things, and congratulated me for definitely not being a dabbler, though you can believe whatever you want on the Internet.
It's also completely non-advantageous to do one thing for your entire life, regardless of what you think of my billion hobbies and activities. Are you glad you went to high school or middle school or were a baby or whatever? Would you like to spend the rest of your life that way? If you answered "yes" to the first and "no" to the second, then congratulations, you're a sane, normal person. What about being single? If you're single, do you like it? Would you like to be single forever? Maybe, maybe not. Both of those are OK. I think "finding something to do with your life" instead of just following your desires (not what you think your desires are. If you actually want something, rather than just the idea of it, you'll be able to stick with as many or few things as much as you want) is said from the perspective of people who visualize themselves as dead already. On the one hand, I very much approve of some carpe diem-y, Buddhist meditation-y idea of seeing yourself as dead. On the other hand, if we're going to die tomorrow, today we drink, so screw living like that. The only way you'll successfully live the way you want to is not to try. The thing about events is that they can be described and written any number of ways. You could live your life in order for someone to make book or movie A about it, but then your life sucks because you're just trying to approximate something that's not a life, and people have to make book or movie B to clean up after you, but no one watches it anyways. What you should do is just live the best life you can, and then the story will write itself. If you're not happy about your past, you're not happy in the present. That's impossible. If you're happy in the present, you'll like your past for making you who you are and getting you where you are.
All the world’s a stage,
And all the men and women merely players;
They have their exits and their entrances,
And one man in his time plays many parts,
His acts being seven ages. At first the infant,
Mewling and puking in the nurse’s arms;
And then the whining schoolboy, with his satchel
And shining morning face, creeping like snail
Unwillingly to school. And then the lover,
Sighing like furnace, with a woeful ballad
Made to his mistress’ eyebrow. Then a soldier,
Full of strange oaths, and bearded like the pard,
Jealous in honor, sudden and quick in quarrel,
Seeking the bubble reputation
Even in the cannon’s mouth. And then the justice,
In fair round belly with good capon lined,
With eyes severe and beard of formal cut,
Full of wise saws and modern instances;
And so he plays his part. The sixth age shifts
Into the lean and slippered pantaloon,
With spectacles on nose and pouch on side;
His youthful hose, well saved, a world too wide
For his shrunk shank; and his big manly voice,
Turning again toward childish treble, pipes
And whistles in his sound. Last scene of all,
That ends this strange eventful history,
Is second childishness and mere oblivion,
Sans teeth, sans eyes, sans taste, sans everything.
Also, I approve of anyone wanting to be "a polymath" or "a jack of all trades" or not feeling pressured into being a specialist in general, and people like @Muddy not even going to school. From the perspective of both being in school and having a part-time job at the same time, the part-time job seems like it goes a lot more towards my future since it gives me money and connections, vs. school taking your money and giving you enemies competing for your grades and teachers judging you like some Kafka kangaroo court. You're probably better off going to the bar than school, since even bar drinks are less expensive than American tuition and you get good connections. I think the secret of life is that first you're happy, then less happy people make you successful to (mostly successfully) try to piggyback on your happiness. If you're unhappy, people will just want you dead so you won't be able to spread your unhappiness like it's the Black Death, and that's how you end up in jail, a homeless shelter, an insane asylum, and other unfortunate fates. But I think ironically, being dead is the most unhappy state of all, or people and other living things wouldn't suffer just to prolong their own lives.
How do you do this if you don't stay in school?
Some of us would just prefer a stable career even if it meant our standard of living were shabby for the rest of our days. We're not all built to like what we do, or for that matter to even like doing anything at all. Bouncing around inherently means uncertainty, and if you're anything like me and live life in defensive mode, uncertainty is basically congruent to starvation.
The only certainties in life are death and taxes, so I think you have that taken care of then.
I don't value Te but it seems like a very bad financial decision. The investment you put into it, is not worth what you get out of it. Socionically most general colleges feel very alpha. They have ILE/SEI/LIIs and little of anything else. It also felt like a prison. Too institutionalized and NWO-y. Also the people there were weird, nobody really acted their age. They were all seven year olds in 18 year old bodies or 95 year olds in 18 year old bodies. I went for two weeks then dropped out.
The only worse thing is 7 year olds in 50 year old bodies. At least 18 year olds have the right to be confused and act seven or 95 sometimes. College would probably be tolerable without the professors, but that's like saying a triangle probably wouldn't be pointy without three sides.
Libertarainism wants to get rid of the latter, while transhumanism wants to eliminate of the former, so I'm not even sure there are any certainties in life anymore.
Well, they're still certainties for now. Maybe not in the future. That'd actually be cool. I'd make a "NO DEATH OR TAXES!" protest sign but then I'd get moved to Alpha Quadra and there's no one there so that'd be boring.
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