If there is any
What function is expressed negativty? and positivity?
If there is any
criticism may relate to a region of any function
I mean if a person were to be a party-pooper as opposed to someone who is concerned with everyone having a good time even if that means ignoring issues. Or someone who focuses on the negative versus positive in general of all things. And a person who is really concerned with the moods of other people would not criticize anything.Originally Posted by Sol
T types care lesser about emotions. Fi types care the most to don't offence others. E-9 also avoid this.
Sometimes not true, especially online. In some cases, types are aware of their 'fears' and so act the opposite to try to be counter-phobic about it. I knew a social last 9 who was very into anti-feminism and 'unaccepted' views like that and he would take any chance to talk about it and confront the feminists, who were often less intelligent girls. It was funny and everyone was uncomfortableHe usually did it in front of the whole class.
Other than that he was very sweet and kind of timid.
At least, both those factors predispose to this. Fi gives high compassion, while E-9 also avoiding to get problems in return.
So they look as highly conformistic and polite.
@Sol back to topic, a person who is very blunt and matter-of-fact would be T then? Because I'm very much like that.
Non-types factors may affect this significantly. If you'd were non-emotional and more reasonable sometimes, then to suspect T was a basis.
Youre not that reasonable most of the time
Feel free to offer other types for me.
Yes, but mostly to judgement functions.
No. For example, to understand lesser of physical comfort (Si) you may not harder than lesser pleasant emotions (Fi).
I can't understandbecause it is an unconcious function for me.
I cant understand what any of you are saying because it is broken english for me.
Projection is ordinary. Person A projects at person B, hoping tovalidate something about person A by the response of person B. However, person B, not wanting to be an obejct of someone elses ego and guarding against existential terror constructs a personality which protects his ego and maintain a certain sense of a robust and real self that is different and separate from person A. Sadly, this robust and real self, cut off by defenses of character from the rest of the world, is quite vulnerable and fragile given that it is imaginary and propped up through external feed back. Person B is dimly aware of this and defends against it all the more, even desperately projecting his anxieties back onto person A, with the hope of shoring up his ego with salubrious validation. All of this happens without A or B acknowledging it, of course. Because to face up to it consciously is shocking, in that this is all anybody is doing or can do and it seems absurd when you realize how pathetic it is.
Sounds like a complex, well rounded person when you put them all together.Next, V.V. Gulenko writes:
Basing on the proposed placement of signs of functions, we can decipher the meaning of each of combination. Socionic functions ... carry, in our view, the following semantic content:
+ Fe- positive emotions, joy, merriment, emotional elation, excitement, a smile, laughter, enthusiasm, optimism, good mood, the experience of happiness;
− Fe
+ Fi- good relations, love, friendship, affection, attraction, warmth in relations, sociability, close psychological distance, goodness, compassion;
− Fi
+ Te- useful, beneficial, economical, technology, facts, acquisition, stockpiling, purchases, savings, bringing order, practicality;
− Te
+ Ti- specificity, itemization, detailed study, thoroughness, accuracy, strictness, place in hierarchy, regulations, instructions, choosing the best option, precision of function, logic of organization, indicators, reporting;
− Ti
+ Ne- prospects, opportunities, positive potential, core meaning, essence, principle, new ideas, advancing hypotheses, theory, insight, interest, originality, unusual, fantastical, hopefulness;
− Ne
+ Ni- future, change in the situation over time, prediction, premonition, gradual development, evolution, gradual ascent, the dynamics of change, the flow of time, imagination, harmonious description, subtle step-by-step changes, convergence, confluence;
− Ni
+ Se- retention of power, insubordination, defense, cover, countermove, counterattack, firmness, defense of one's interests, strong-willed pressure from the bottom upwards, strength, will, possession;
− Se
+ Si
− Si
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
Negativity most typically has to do with Ni. So it's normal for (say) a type with leading or mobilizing Ni to come off as negative.
But there seems to be a lot of variation. Not all Ni leads are negative, and even some Ne leading types can seem negative.
This is because negativity is specifically -Ni (=ILI's Ni) in my view, so it "conflicts" with +Fe (ESE). So the most positive type stereotypically is ESE.
Isn't that backwards?
Beta is -Ni +Fe, so Alpha is -Fe and Gamma is +Ni
Projection is ordinary. Person A projects at person B, hoping tovalidate something about person A by the response of person B. However, person B, not wanting to be an obejct of someone elses ego and guarding against existential terror constructs a personality which protects his ego and maintain a certain sense of a robust and real self that is different and separate from person A. Sadly, this robust and real self, cut off by defenses of character from the rest of the world, is quite vulnerable and fragile given that it is imaginary and propped up through external feed back. Person B is dimly aware of this and defends against it all the more, even desperately projecting his anxieties back onto person A, with the hope of shoring up his ego with salubrious validation. All of this happens without A or B acknowledging it, of course. Because to face up to it consciously is shocking, in that this is all anybody is doing or can do and it seems absurd when you realize how pathetic it is.
I also thought ESE was -Fe since negative is competent in both areas?
It is difficult to agree with such interpretation of semantic content of properties imparted by the signs of functions. Indeed, a person of TIM ESE (with first function of −Fe) cannot always be in a state of "negative emotions, grief, sadness, emotional recession, crying, frustration, pessimism, the experience of adversity ..." – good moods and feelings of happiness are not alien for people of this type. The outlook of a person of TIM LIE (−Te) is not dominated only by "... uselessness, lack of profits, utilization, depreciation, costs, expenses, risk-taking ...". Practical experience of any observant socionist will indicate that this is wrong. An analysis of actual results of identification of TIMs (typings) indicates a more complex structure of the properties imparted by the signs of functions.
In the above-mentioned work, V. V. Gulenko has denoted the signs only of the first (base) function. He did not clarify how the signs of other functions are to be assigned and distributed across the TIM models. The results of further such assignments indicate the following: the signs of functions alternate starting with the first, and for functions of same E/I-orientation they coincide.
A. V. Bukalov, making a presentation at one of the socionics conferences and agreeing with the proposed by V. V. Gulenko assignment of signs of functions of the Mental superblock, has commented, however, that the signs of functions of the vital ring should be, in his view, opposite to the signs of corresponding functions of the mental ring, and should coincide with the signs of functions of the dual TIM. A. V. Bukalov did not forward a further explanation of this concept.
Later, V. V. Gulenko introduced a new system of signs, coming from Reinin traits "Positivism/Negativism" and "Static/Dynamic", and offered the following explanation of this new development:
"The plus (+) sign is usually associated with a trait of sustainability, immobility, while minus (–) sign is associated with a trait of transience, mobility. An example from physics: negatively charged electrons are in motion around the positively charged atomic nucleus. Consequently, static trait is positive and dynamic trait is negative. In this work [Structural and functional model – Kiev, 1997 / / "Socionics, mentology and psychology of personality" 1998, № 4] I will be considering the top ring of model A, irrespective of which sociotype is being considered, as the static one, and the bottom ring – as the dynamic one. The ring of stabilization (top ring) is therefore a carrier of positive charge, and the ring of development (lower ring) is thus negatively charged. The ring of stabilization can thus be considered functional, and the ring of development – dysfunctional."
You have said that you have good "intuition". Then why is it so difficult for you to prognose events for you?
"The key word here is "events". Forecasting events is hard for me. I "prognose" (though this is not the right word, rather "see" or "feel" something in the future) the general situation or environment, the balance of powers, the "aesthetics of a position", but not the concrete events. These events actually may be quite random. And they need to be sufficiently analyzed in detail to make conclusions about the actual happenings and times − which is not always easy to achieve and requires much effort."
(−Ni : IEI "Esenin")
Please give examples to illustrate this statement.
"After the Great Depression in U.S., several laws got passed for the regulation of the banking and monetary systems. During these times of turmoil, people would lose their homes, but now, in present times, this is unheard of – you won't get evicted from your home as long as you pay. Before, in times of Great Depression, they closed the loans in view of the general great material losses. Renters weren't considered at all. And there you have it, the suffering of present times can similarly serve as the beginning of changes for the better, and thus things happen for the better, for future progress."
(+Ni : LIE "Jack")
A function with a plus (+) sign orients in the zone of the positive (plus zone) and does not orient in the zone of the negative (minus zone).
A function with a minus (−) sign orients in both the negative (minus) and positive (plus) zones.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
EIE and ESE can control these states masterfully, it's mood management. It holds true when you look at the opposite, for SLI and ILI it is hard to get into expressing positivity/negativity with deliberation, nor do they care. Ironically, this is how they can ruin the mood without even tryingSo I do think it's
The structure of signs is asymmetric, therefore it should not be concluded that the function with a minus sign cannot orient in the plus region. This mistake is often committed by those who first become acquainted with the theory of signs.
A function with a plus (+) sign orients in the zone of the positive (plus zone) and does not orient in the zone of the negative (minus zone).
A function with a minus (−) sign orients in both the negative (minus) and positive (plus) zones.
It is also necessary to draw into attention that a sign is an attribute of a function and not of the aspect of the information flow: "Aspects of information flow do not have signs" [4].
a lot of these notions are developing in time, which means some of these articles are taken out of context if we view them as the final word on the topic. the bottom line is people define what signs do a little differently, but it doesn't mean they're not both right to a certain degree. the classic way of thinking about it is +means movement toward the positive development and -means movement away from the negative aspects. In regard to Fe that gets mixed up with "ability to manifest positive/negative emotion." The bottom line is Hugo can manifest both positive and negative emotions, but his MO is to manifest positive ones because he prefers a positive atmosphere, of his own construction, and if every atmosphere is a sequence of positive ones, bam job done. Hamlet uses -Fe to propel change. He plays up negative emotion in order to motivate the rebellion and set things in motion. He does't like negative emotion for its own sake, but rather he utilizes it across time to effect what he sees as positive change in the world (Ni). So the idea is his preference for negative emotion is itself a movement away from global negative emotion in time, i.e.: preventing further catastrophes, by using negative emotion to effect a change of course that prevents things from being even worse in the future.
This whole idea at close range who is better giving off emotion is sort of a red herring, its not what the system is trying to describe. both types can easily manifest positive/negative emotion at close range. its what their "program" tries to do with them at a broader level where the +/- makes sense. if you frame the question as "who is better at expressing themselves at close range" it confuses the issue. you can think of all types ultimately wanting a good result on their program function, the difference between +/- and Hamlet and Hugo is linearity . Hamlet is nonlinear in his maximization of positive emotion. When they say Hugo is less adept in the negative it means he does not prefer to use negative emotion across time as a major feature of his program, rather it only comes and goes as needed, he gravitates away from it, if he can. Whereas Hamlet is drawn toward it--he will come back to it, once things have settled down. its where they tend to spend their time: negativism v positivism in a general sense. Hamlet is drawn to accentuating the shortcomings and Hugo toward increasing what positives are already there. Each is fully capable of manifesting "the exception" as needed, but the base function is 4d it needs to be assessed as a pattern in time, and that's what +/- does best
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Partypooper is more fi valuing, everyone having a good time is more fe
That's according to Bukalov/Model B/"old Gulenko" signs. I use signs that are more in line with Model G (different definitions though).
Last edited by Exodus; 12-11-2017 at 02:46 AM.
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