Derail/Simple definition of Ni

[Bertrand]

Yeah, ok. They say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery... I just feel copied considering you called me a caregiver for saying the same thing to you.

mainly because you characterized the people you were looking after as children, which is what makes it caregiverish by definition not that "you care." lets not be stupid. "care" is just the focus of our attention to some extent everyone is a "caregiver." what makes someone a "caregiver" in socionics is looking at people as children who need to be protected. its treating everyone with kid gloves, making a morality out of it

[Aylen]

mainly because you characterized the people you were looking after as children, which is what makes it caregiverish by definition not that "you care." lets not be stupid. "care" is just the focus of our attention to some extent everyone is a "caregiver." what makes someone a "caregiver" in socionics is looking at people as children who need to be protected. its treating everyone with kid gloves, making a morality out of it

Wrong...

You just didn't understand my analogy. Talk about context shifting, you do it all the time.

You obviously do not understand the romance style aspect of socionics. Secondary romance style of IEI happens to be caregiver btw but not related to this. You are applying the term caregiver where it does not actually make sense. I have seen others do it too. Like when "victim" types complain about being victimy outside of the context of romance styles. This is a common mistake and you probably learned it from reading too much into people's opinions instead of theory. If you do not understand the basics then go back to the beginning.

The Caregiver types, identified as such by Viktor Gulenko, are the four types with Si in their ego, two each in Alpha and Delta: ESE, SEI, LSE, and SLI. Despite the differences between these types in terms of temperament, base function, and quadra values, it seems that in the area of physical attraction, desire, and flirting, their Si is the most visible factor in determining a Caregivers' behavior.

Typical characteristics of the Caregiver romance style

• attraction is naturally sparked by the perceived aesthetic attributes of the prospective partner, but cooled off if such attributes are * accompanied by a perception of "too aggressive" sexuality
• inclination towards tenderness, "soft" rather than "hard" approach
• prone to adopt maternal approach to the physical comfort and needs of partner
• interest is further maintained if partner welcomes this approach
• prone to assume that partner will need help in practical, daily matters
• neutral as to who ended a relationship, "power" is not seen as important in such matters

This romance style is defined by focus on Si which is dynamic, irrational, and introverted, with perceptions of the present reality and physical sensations rather than inner imagery. This means that a Caregiver sees attraction between two individuals as a dynamic state, which he feels is completely natural, as he also sees the physical comfort and well-being of another person as dynamic. This accounts for a Caregiver's inclination to focus on the mutual attraction, or particularly the attraction felt by the other person, as connected to that person's physical well-being. The individual's own dynamic and introverted Si perceptions lead to a sense of sleepy drifting in them, which makes him welcome Ne impulses from another person designed to shake him out of it from time to time.

Perception of other romance styles

This refers to perceptions of the partner in a romantic or prospective relationship.

• Aggressor: Caregivers tend to perceive Aggressors as a bit over-the-top in their approach to romantic interactions and sexuality and ultimately not pleasant to have stable intimate relationships with.
• Victim: Caregivers tend to perceive Victims as puzzling and never contented, sometimes as paranoid and insecure.
• Caregiver: Caregivers tend to perceive other Caregivers as comfortable partners, but ultimately somehow less than satisfactory.
• Infantile: Caregivers tend to perceive Infantiles as delightful partners with a sense of fun that brings joy to their lives.

[Bertrand]

we're talking about how caregivers view people in general not their romance style directed at a potential partner. its pretty obvious you exhibit the Si creative style caregiving associated with ESE and LSE, which is a kind of maternal/paternal assumption about what is needed in any given situation. Sol does it too from the thinking side. its about the furthest thing from Se valuing possible, but it does give off a lot of Se byproducts, mainly in how you always try to relitigate and tend to take up a ton of space in order to make relatively simple points. Aylenspreading I like to call it

[Aylen]

we're talking about how caregivers view people in general not their romance style directed at a potential partner

No that is what you are talking about and the fact is you didn't even read my whole post that led to that exchange. You jumped to many wrong conclusions in that thread. You would not find one person who would call me a "caregiver" in the real world so that part is mostly amusing. You are confined, maybe by choice, to a very narrow perception with very narrow definitions that do not allow you to have a wider perspective on human interactions. IOW, you can't see the big picture. You overly focus on irrelevant details like an analogy I used. I could be wrong about you being a small picture person but I don't think so.

[Bertrand]

u myron my Ni bruh?

[Aylen]

u myron my Ni bruh?

If Ni means having knee jerk reactions while jumping to wrong conclusions because you can't take the time to read what you are reacting to, inability to comprehend theory, as it is written, witness the unfolding patterns of time and change that reveal the big picture, during aha moments, then predict my or anyone else's next move, then yes. I admire it very much. I would hate to see how you process when information is actually scarce.

I think you are more interested in stretching the realm of credibility by focusing on a few narrow options and stubbornly sticking to them even as new information becomes available because it suits your agenda (not HA) to rewrite socionics to suit you. It isn't about the people involved. You are not an ethical anyway. I prefer to follow one idea at a time until the bigger picture manifests in my minds eye and I have my answer on how to proceed or not. I am never as sure as you seem to be about people's types or behaviors. I am not as verbal about my processes because they are introverted. I can see it is easier for you since your intuition is extroverted.

[at sirac son of sirac]

If Ni means having knee jerk reactions while jumping to wrong conclusions because you can't take the time to read what you are reacting to, inability to comprehend theory, as it is written, witness the unfolding patterns of time and change that reveal the big picture, during aha moments, then predict my or anyone else's next move, then yes. I admire it very much. I would hate to see how you process when information is actually scarce.

I think you are more interested in stretching the realm of credibility by focusing on a few narrow options and stubbornly sticking to them even as new information becomes available because it suits your agenda (not HA) to rewrite socionics to suit you. It isn't about the people involved. You are not an ethical anyway. I prefer to follow one idea at a time until the bigger picture manifests in my minds eye and I have my answer on how to proceed or not. I am never as sure as you seem to be about people's types or behaviors. I am not as verbal about my processes because they are introverted. I can see it is easier for you since your intuition is extroverted.

N is about wholeness. Ni is internal wholeness and Ne is external wholeness. With external wholeness, Ne, this is how you can get things like new possibilities, ways.

Ni is internal wholeness, because it's introverted, so because it is within, this is how you can get Ni with imaginations etc, making a whole intricate internal web of a life and existence. Sometimes with Fe, the Ni can be directed towards the love of a partner, creating a whole web and internal life of love for your ideal partner, and creating the great bond with them too.

Tarot and the like, is a tool too for imaginations and insights, so really with your tarot I've read, it's as you say, a tool for your inner life and workings, so you are Ni for sure imo.

I just wanted to contribute.

I think @Bertrand, it's OK to have new ideas and progress, but it's not good to re-write meanings of terms like caregiver etc to other things, it's OK to be wrong, i'm wrong more than I'm right.

Interesting conversation though, but it hurts me if I see it hurts others though too. But it's a contribution to the conversation, rather the thread subject too. Thanks.

[Aylen]

we're talking about how caregivers view people in general not their romance style directed at a potential partner. its pretty obvious you exhibit the Si creative style caregiving associated with ESE and LSE, which is a kind of maternal/paternal assumption about what is needed in any given situation. Sol does it too from the thinking side. its about the furthest thing from Se valuing possible, but it does give off a lot of Se byproducts, mainly in how you always try to relitigate and tend to take up a ton of space in order to make relatively simple points. Aylenspreading I like to call it

Seems you are editing again.

This is exactly what you do. lol I can condense just about every long post you made that is a waste of forum space, into a few sentences, with an online summarizer and not miss anything relevant or important. In fact I have done it for others when they could not get through one of your posts. I happen to read your if I am responding though. Will you call that Bertrandspreading? Kind of a lame term tbh. Thought you might be more creative than that.

[Bertrand]

caregiver is not even a romance style, its just a word for how Si ego views their role in relationships. "caregiver" (in the above article) is just the shorthand for when they applied that outlook to the specific context of a romantic relationship. the idea that you inform "caregiver" from the romance style description is backwards. I could write what "caregivers" do in any given context, not just romance, and it would be accurate because I know what caregiver means in the prepotent sense of the word. So its always funny to see people think their assbackwards interpretation is controlling, when its like wholly derivative of a broader concept that which when I explain they resist on the grounds that its coming from an unfamiliar direction. Yeah, thats called learning, heaven forbid we "re-write" the definition by informing your ignorant and incomplete understanding

[Aylen]

caregiver is not even a romance style, its just a word for how Si ego views their role in relationships. "caregiver" (in the above article) is just the shorthand for when they applied that outlook to the specific context of a romantic relationship. the idea that you inform "caregiver" from the romance style description is backwards. I could write what "caregivers" do in any given context, not just romance, and it would be accurate because I know what caregiver means in the prepotent sense of the word. So its always funny to see people think their assbackwards interpretation is controlling, when its like wholly derivative of a broader concept that which when I explain they resist on the grounds that its coming from an unfamiliar direction. Yeah, thats called learning, heaven forbid we "re-write" the definition by informing your ignorant and incomplete understanding

Part of a broader concept that you do not fully understand, since you are bad with people, obviously. You apply it in ways it does not even fit and has nothing to do with the concept of it being related to valuing Si. You have accused me of being "caregiverish" for things you turn around and do later. You are being dishonest in your application. You rely on people misunderstanding the concept, if anything. If you were truly interested in not spreading misinformation you would not spread it yourself.

[Bertrand]

honestly it feels like you're pulling words out of a hat. if the idea is I offend people and that makes me wrong I disagree. the more important thing is to offend the right people, i.e.: the ones who are incorrect. if you define being "correct" as not offending anyone, you've erased all distinctive power to truth, which is the definition of truth. its funny because this is the basis for discernment, and you fancy yourself some kind of seer, and its like there is absolutely no discernment because your standard for judgement is antithetical to the idea that gives discernment its meaning. its more like rubber stamping whatever prevailing wind you find yourself among, which is what lies function to do. inasmuch as the prevailing mass is correct they don't need anyone to rubber stamp their activity because the activity validates itself, that's what being right is.

the only reason a group erects false prophets of this kind is because they see the need to sanction something they know does not validate itself, so you have the kangaroo court of Aylen that tells people its okay to proceed off a cliff, which is why they elected her judge to begin with. the whole thing is just stupid. fortunately it takes care of itself: look who you're so polite to, precisely the people that need it. being forced to be surrounded by such people is its own punishment

[Aylen]

honestly it feels like you're pulling words out of a hat. if the idea is I offend people and that makes me wrong I disagree

No that is not the idea but if that is what you got from it.

[Bertrand]

Part of a broader concept that you do not fully understand, since you are bad with people, obviously

well I'm not bad with people, Im good with people in the way ESE is bad with people. Which means ESE makes all this fuss about being polite and supporting all these people, but at the end of the day no one can stand to be around them. Whereas I "offend" people and yet people are drawn to me. People like you repel others and you're constantly chasing them down. Meanwhile I'm so offensive yet people are drawn to me implicitly. You say I'm bad with people, its a judgement totally abstract and divorced from reality. what you're really saying is "I think what you're saying is offensive" and proceeding from there, and drawing the conclusion I'm conceptually wrong for that reason, etc etc which flows into my prior post

honestly I don't even know who you think you're fighting for or what you think you represent, but its profoundly confused. its just activity for its own sake with nothing behind it

[Spermatozoa]

if the idea is I offend people and that makes me wrong I disagree. the more important thing is to offend the right people, i.e.: the ones who are incorrect. if you define being "correct" as not offending anyone, you've erased all distinctive power to truth, which is the definition of truth.

L
I
I

[at sirac son of sirac]

well I'm not bad with people, Im good with people in the way ESE is bad with people. Which means ESE makes all this fuss about being polite and supporting all these people, but at the end of the day no one can stand to be around them. Whereas I "offend" people and yet people are drawn to me. People like you repel others and you're constantly chasing them down. Meanwhile I'm so offensive yet people are drawn to me implicitly. You say I'm bad with people, its a judgement totally abstract and divorced from reality. what you're really saying is "I think what you're saying is offensive" and proceeding from there, and drawing the conclusion I'm conceptually wrong for that reason, etc etc which flows into my prior post

honestly I don't even know who you think you're fighting for or what you think you represent, but its profoundly confused. its just activity for its own sake with nothing behind it

Hi Bertrand,

What is it you're looking for, really, would you say?

[Bertrand]

Hi Bertrand,

What is it you're looking for, really, would you say?

Are you asking me what my most fundamental desire is?

[Spermatozoa]

@Bertrand

Your last post was pretty much a textbook definition of TiNe.

Above all, Ti (Laws) values internal logical coherence and is obsessed with presumed truth or falsity. In your own words, you judge others based on a subjective standard of whether they are "correct" or "incorrect". Again, this a Rational, not Irrational approach to navigating reality. In this case, it is Ti.

You will not be allowed to escape this time. Accept your fate:

E
S
E

She (or perhaps he) is waiting for you, somewhere, across the sea...

[at sirac son of sirac]

Are you asking me what my most fundamental desire is?

It's whatever you like

[Bertrand]

I can only dispute so many perspectives at once without being overwhelmed because whatever I say in response to one person is going to leave me open to criticism from someone else (If i "speak Ti" to reach ESE, I'm accused of LII, etc). so I guess the mob wins, I'm not interested in taking endless pot shots over a discussion which has outlived its usefulness. if you really want to continue the discussion scarper you can PM me

[Aylen]

honestly it feels like you're pulling words out of a hat. if the idea is I offend people and that makes me wrong I disagree. the more important thing is to offend the right people, i.e.: the ones who are incorrect. if you define being "correct" as not offending anyone, you've erased all distinctive power to truth, which is the definition of truth. its funny because this is the basis for discernment, and you fancy yourself some kind of seer, and its like there is absolutely no discernment because your standard for judgement is antithetical to the idea that gives discernment its meaning. its more like rubber stamping whatever prevailing wind you find yourself among, which is what lies function to do. inasmuch as the prevailing mass is correct they don't need anyone to rubber stamp their activity because the activity validates itself, that's what being right is.

the only reason a group erects false prophets of this kind is because they see the need to sanction something they know does not validate itself, so you have the kangaroo court of Aylen that tells people its okay to proceed off a cliff, which is why they elected her judge to begin with. the whole thing is just stupid. fortunately it takes care of itself: look who you're so polite to, precisely the people that need it. being forced to be surrounded by such people is its own punishment

So many edits...

You are still making things up but this is revealing and I have been poking you to get you to reveal yourself. I think we are getting to the bottom of your issue with me. It seems I was correct. There is some kind of jealousy but there is no reason for it. I actually could not care less what you or anyone else self types and I have no investment in people believing my perception of reality because I realized a long time ago that a lot of people do not see the world as I do. You want followers and I don't. You want recognition and I don't. You want to be seen as some kind of socionics master reformer and I don't. You should take another vacation for perspective. Being part of some master race online is not living up to your potential and silly. Aim higher.

I do not have a "court". I have not been elected anything and I have no problem offending jerks, outright liars, cheaters, and idiots. You can probably guess which categories you fit. I am polite to most people if they deserve it. You don't. You see a person in me that doesn't exist except in your mind but you need to hold onto that perception instead of being honest with yourself. I think this was a good first step. Admitting you view me as having more influence and it is bugging you.

A hint: You play nice with various male and female forum members who actually liked you (not saying romantically) for some reason and then turned on them the first time they didn't agree with your authority and make you feel like the man. I was never taken with you so I don't care if you like me or not. Your opinion of me means nothing so I have nothing to lose. I am more diplomatic with my friends.

[Bertrand]

alright thanks for the advice Aylen, I'll consider it if I ever want to be like you or like the people you like

[at sirac son of sirac]

I can only dispute so many perspectives at once without being overwhelmed because whatever I say in response to one person is going to leave me open to criticism from someone else (If i "speak Ti" to reach ESE, I'm accused of LII, etc). so I guess the mob wins, I'm not interested in taking endless pot shots over a discussion which has outlived its usefulness. if you really want to continue the discussion scarper you can PM me

I suppose we can, I was more so trying to diffuse the personal-ness of the discussion, but i'm not sure if I want perhaps that type of personal-ness on pm which is a double personal-ness, but if you want to chat, PM me. Maybe i'll drop you a PM anyway Have a good day/evening friend

[Sol]

its pretty obvious you exhibit the Si creative style caregiving associated with ESE and LSE, which is a kind of maternal/paternal assumption about what is needed in any given situation

"maternal/paternal assumption about what is needed in any given situation"
It's related to strong functions of all types. We care about others with our strong functions. All people are social in big degree as we need others. Se types care by fighting/protecting/conquering/getting money. Si types by making physical comfort and health. F types by making good or appropriate emotions. T types - by giving reasonable opinions and truth.
Gulenko's term "caregivers" is limited to Si care only, but it's just for romantic behavior context, not as general term.
You don't understand even basics and trying to make bigger picture based on strangely wrong preconditions. Such style of thinking exists at some disorders with highly speculative thinking. You make evident for others mistakes and don't notice them. If you don't take drugs what may entangle your mind, then you need a medical consultation.

[Aylen]

well I'm not bad with people, Im good with people in the way ESE is bad with people. Which means ESE makes all this fuss about being polite and supporting all these people, but at the end of the day no one can stand to be around them. Whereas I "offend" people and yet people are drawn to me. People like you repel others and you're constantly chasing them down. Meanwhile I'm so offensive yet people are drawn to me implicitly. You say I'm bad with people, its a judgement totally abstract and divorced from reality. what you're really saying is "I think what you're saying is offensive" and proceeding from there, and drawing the conclusion I'm conceptually wrong for that reason, etc etc which flows into my prior post

honestly I don't even know who you think you're fighting for or what you think you represent, but its profoundly confused. its just activity for its own sake with nothing behind it

LOL just no. I am far from fussy. I am not polite and supporting of everyone and I don't know where you even come up with these things. If you are talking about me liking posts of people who thrash you about then don't read too much into it. I probably have not had much contact with them, if any, outside the public posts on forum. You assume I have relationships with people when there are none. Like you made up the idea that somehow Adam and I are great friends even though I was on Adam before you decided to take up the cause against him.
If you don't believe me then ask him. Your assessment does not match anything I have said about myself. I think you know that but you have ulterior motives for typing me what you do, don't you?

Anyway, if ESE are so fussy people cannot stand to be around them then I don't know how my sister has more friends than most people on this forum combined and more energy than that. Again you are being dishonest. ESE are one of the least likely types to even be on this forum. You have no idea what you are talking about. It is nothing more than a joke about stereotype that some people latched onto. I am skeptical of anyone who singles out a type they don't like because as we can see by your fine example intertype relations are subjective and based off how people make you feel. If anything I feel like I am supervising you half the time but being your benefactor is starting to make the most sense in light of new evidence.

Like I said, I don't care if people are repulsed or not. On one hand people find me "repulsive" in your mind and on the other I am elected queen of some imaginary court. You are so full of it. I will let you have a break though. You feel backed into a corner like a wounded animal and reacting as such. Happy Thanksgiving.

I have never chased anyone down btw. I don't need to advertise who is or isn't drawn to me but you might be surprised. People just find you adorkable at first. In that goofy infantile way.

[Bertrand]

Like I said, I don't care if people are repulsed or not. On one hand people find me "repulsive" in your mind and on the other I am elected queen of some imaginary court.

you're such a nugget Aylen. you play the role for a small degenerate group and they keep you around for that reason. for everyone that can see that incestuous trade off for what it is, you are repulsive


Aramas I think you just fundamentally don't understand what time is, so you've sort of erased it from your lexicon and filled in the gaps. Its just a personal statement on how you understand intuition to function, which excludes time as a concept in relating to itself. Associations are Ne, but the meaningfulness of the connection between them is Ni, and that expresses itself through Time

because repetition is at the core of meaning, and it occurs in time

[Aylen]

you're such a nugget Aylen. you play the role for a small degenerate group and they keep you around for that reason. for everyone that can see that incestuous trade off for what it is, you are repulsive

Aramas I think you just fundamentally don't understand what time is, so you've sort of erased it from your lexicon and filled in the gaps. Its just a personal statement on how you understand intuition to function, which excludes time as a concept in relating to itself. Associations are Ne, but the meaningfulness of the connection between them is Ni, and that expresses itself through Time

How repulsive sweetpea? Can I get the statistics you base that on? References?

How about this repulsive?

 

Ok that was truly evil of me to post that pic of you. I deleted for the good of mankind.

If not, I will work on it.

[Bertrand]

lol "show me the survey"!-- truly the fallback of someone confident in their position. it really just proves my point anyway in how your reality is subjectivist to the core

[Aylen]

lol "show me the survey"!-- truly the fallback of someone confident in their position. it really just proves my point anyway in how your reality is subjectivist to the core

So now you want to dispute me as ILI? I am not merry, I am serious, so go away.

Like I always tell you, the only point you have is at the top of your head. You have not made one valid point in this whole thread because you are too worried about how other people self type. You ignore anything that would force you to prove you are anything but a fraud. Keep things vague so you can pretend you are Mr Ni.



This is you:

Alpha Quadra (particularly ILE Don Quixote) will say: "I care not of your achievements. It's still unclear who is doing all the work for you! For me you are a nobody - an empty space!"

"Show me the survey" as you paraphrased it was my way of saying you are full of it.

[Bertrand]

nah the difference is between having a solid unified perspective back to which I relate, and grasping at any immediately apparent straws, which is what you do. I guess you could say the latter perspective does has a sort of unity but its the unity of Ne mobilizing and Ni polr. I mean its pretty obvious I know what I'm talking about and you're just trying to manage the social manifestation via whack a mole, which totally misses the point of everything. its really fussiness in a nutshell. no ones going to ever employ that except to be some small time queen bee over some misfits, in other words, a daycare matron. you already know this because you naturally slide into the role with glee anyway. the problem is your pretentious fakery when it comes to socionics, because there's more at stake here than your little coven of inbreds

[Aylen]

nah the difference is between having a solid unified perspective back to which I relate, and grasping at any immediately apparent straws, which is what you do. I guess you could say the latter perspective does has a sort of unity but its the unity of Ne mobilizing and Ni polr. I mean its pretty obvious I know what I'm talking about and you're just trying to manage the social manifestation via whack a mole, which totally misses the point of everything. its really fussiness in a nutshell. no ones going to ever employ that except to be some small time queen bee over some misfits, in other words, a daycare matron. you already know this because you naturally slide into the role with glee anyway. the problem is your pretentious fakery when it comes to socionics, because there's more at stake than your little coven of inbreds

LOL you are so fussy it is not even cute anymore. Seriously I think an ESE is one of the few types that could deal with your whiny ass.

Nice touch with the pink which reminds me!

you've again managed to perfectly recreate the feeling I get around most ESE, congrats

And I responded:

You have a distorted of view of ESE then. ESE are usually nicer than I am. In fact most of the values you state you have, they have too. Anyone can see that I am not ESE, of all types, except you. I think you need to learn the types before you mistype yet another person which is something I see you do frequently. Remember when I told you that SEE you felt so sorry for was not an SEE but most likely an Fe lead? Yeah, it is true. You expressing so much in one thread has allowed me to see how it fits your perception of types.

Now think on this, ESE's are actually your dual. How do you feel about that now that you see it all falling into place? It is not falling into place yet? Give it some time, it will. You know that nagging feeling you get when someone talks about SEEs...

I don't think you have made the connection here that you are continuously using Ti which is a pity. You do not sound like an LIE. This rambly stuff that basically says nothing is not Ni and certainly not Te. You are confusing it for Ni. You probably have preconceived ideas of how alpha types are due to your family or whatever. Just accept you are alpha and you can drop those judgments.

What is it with guys typing me their conflictor on this site? They are typing me their dual by doing that and don't even know it. You are not the only one. I wasn't going to say anything but when I see your posts now I see certain shades of pink. I looked for an image to show someone what I was talking about seeing when you post...this was perfect. It is the energy signature you are giving off to me and with each new posts it gets stronger.




Just admit it is possible to dislike people other than a conflictor? I realize you were self typing ILI when you first typed me ESE.

Edit: I gave you an opportunity to explain how I am ESE in the typing of forum members thread but you didn't. That is because you can't. I guess you needed to get it out of your system by bringing it up now.

[Aylen]

Nice color edit berty.

[Bertrand]

nah Ti would be creating a bottom up structure from which I'm positively determing results [1], I just work backward from perceptions and explain them, what keeps things in line is introverted perception, not structural logic. I just flesh out a structure the more opportunities arise to comment as a byproduct of doing what I do best, which is a form of Te/Fi/Ni/Se analysis on people's behaviors and whatever absurdities they throw out. I get that this looks like Ti to you because Ti is the lens through which you receive it, but it says more about your own perception than what's going on with me. I guess you could make a reciprocal argument, except there's very little sophisticated Ni here its more like Se as a byproduct of Si creative. you jockey in space, not time

relitigation versus making arguments that hold up in time is another indicator of Si > Ni in your approach. its like for anyone watching its clear I have the initiative in time, based on how this is playing out. I run ahead in time, yet you have the initiative in space, because you proceed to throw a spacial Fe fit that provokes clean up, but none of it holds up, you've probably already forgotten half of what you've said and all of what it means


[1] this is how hotelambush thinks, if you want an example. which, by the way, is why we come across differently, turns out that's precisely what personality is

[Aylen]

nah Ti would be creating a bottom up structure from which I'm positively determing results [1], I just work backward from perceptions and explain them, what keeps things in line is introverted perception, not structural logic. I just flesh out a structure the more opportunities arise to comment as a byproduct of doing what I do best, which is a form of Te/Fi/Ni/Se analysis on people's behaviors and whatever absurdities they throw out. I get that this looks like Ti to you because Ti is the lens through which you receive it, but it says more about your own perception than what's going on with me. I guess you could make a reciprocal argument that I receive Fe/Ni on the same grounds, except there's very little sophisticated Ni here its more like Se as a byproduct of Si creative. you jockey in space, not time

[1] this is how hotelambush thinks, if you want an example. which, by the way, is why we come across differently, turns out that's precisely what personality is

I jockey for nothing. I just see you are revealing the real you. You are not the socionics visionary you wanted everyone to believe you to be and I am pretty excited to see my perception and yeah "prediction" of who you really are validated by your own posts. That is poetic justice. Time and space has nothing to do with this. They are buzzwords you like to throw around with little meaning in most contexts you use them.

Yesterday you said:

[Death, Justice, and the Sun

Death = Scorpio = me
Justice = Libra = you putting the noose around your own neck
Sun = this forum now that this all comes to light

Look at that, your prophecy came to pass.

[uniden]

I like big Se balls

LOL

That is the simplest definition of Ni I've seen.

[Desert Financial]

@Bertrand, I really don't understand what you're trying to accomplish with this derail shit.

It's like, sometimes I find myself agreeing with you, but then you go and undermine your message with this passive aggressive horseshit.

So, the net result is that constructive dialogue erodes. Interestingly, you happen to touch on the subject of how frail some of the dialogue is with your comments about conceptual confusion. But, in the end, it says more about you than the system or anyone else because you do it to yourself.

[Bertrand]

you're just being manipulated, but at the end of the day if it works and you view me as the bad guy, I assume we were going to end up on opposing sides eventually anyway, so I don't mind if someone hastens the process

in fact I encourage people to show their true colors, because I think it clarifies the true picture as to who believes what and it helps inform the things they say because you can start to see where they're coming from based on their history and past comments and so forth. so I guess you could say my "passive aggressive horseshit" is not really undermining my goals, just what would be your goals if you were me... but you're not

anyway I appreciate the honesty. I feel like you're being really genuine right now and I love that

[Desert Financial]

you're just being manipulated, but at the end of the day if it works and you view me as the bad guy, I assume we were going to end up on opposing sides eventually anyway, so I don't mind if someone hastens the process

in fact I encourage people to show their true colors, because I think it clarifies the true picture as to who believes what and it helps inform the things they say because you can start to see where they're coming from based on their history and past comments and so forth. so I guess you could say my "passive aggressive horseshit" is not really undermining my goals, just what would be your goals if you were me... but you're not

anyway I appreciate the honesty. I feel like you're being really genuine right now and I love that

I don't see things in black and white terms, so it takes more than what I've seen you do to conclude someone is "the bad guy."

It's like I'm put in a position where I go to a bar with a friend. We're friends because we happen to agree on some things.

But then, he goes and decides to publicly take a shit on the floor of the bar for no reason. Maybe to settle some grudge. But you don't really care why in that moment because he's taking a shit on the floor.

So, when the staff and the paying customers come out of the woodwork to kick his ass and teach him a lesson, your instinct is to help, but you can't because he's really just lying in the bed he made by his own hands.

So, you know. If you have a problem with Aylen, me, or whoever else, just take it up with them directly. Otherwise, you'll set the stage for people to gang up on you.

[Bertrand]

honestly, I don't mind because its a good way to filter people, and I respect that it makes others feel like I put them in a tough position and they resent that, so I know if they're "being mean" to me or whatever its not for lack of cause. the bottom line is don't concern yourself too much with what happens to me because its out of your control anyway and I don't want you to worry about something that you can't help and I'm likely to take in the opposite direction than what you'd prefer. its better I think if you want to surround yourself with people more simpatico for you to do so, I think everyone has a right to that

[Desert Financial]

honestly, I don't mind because its a good way to filter people, and I respect that it makes others feel like I put them in a tough position and they resent that, so I know if they're "being mean" to me or whatever its not for lack of cause. the bottom line is don't concern yourself too much with what happens to me because its out of your control anyway and I don't want you to worry about something that you can't help and I'm likely to take in the opposite direction than what you'd prefer. its better I think if you want to surround yourself with people more simpatico for you to do so, I think everyone has a right to that

At this point, I think you're probably an introverted gamma.

[Desert Financial]

You remind me a lot of an ILI enneagram 6 I know from another forum, but with more communication problems.