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Thread: I'm so tired of people mistyping LIEs...

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    Default I'm so tired of people mistyping LIEs...

    Are you aware that LIE's are among the rarest of the types (not making this up, there are statistics that I won't bother to search for right now).

    "We don't know what type this person is? They must be a LIE. They come from MBTI and they are ENTJ there? They Must be LIE. An overly adventurous person? A LIE. A bussinessman? A LIE! A boring overly by-the-book person? A LIE !!"

    LSE's are not LIE's. LSI's are not LIE's. ESE's are not LIE's. EIE's are not LIE's.

    The only legit LIE who has ever graced this forum is @pezzonovante.

    That's all I have to say about this .

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    The truth is..it is all a LIE!
    "Nothing happens until the pain of staying the same outweighs the pain of change."

    Ne-IEE
    6w7 sp/sx
    6w7-9w1-4w5

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    But how are we to know for sure that you are one? Or that some others who think they are LIE are not? And who is this @pezzonovante as I’ve never come across this member before.
    LIE rare?...maybe...but I have at least 3 sisters who are likely LIE and a good male friend of the family who is one also.
    I get that there’s been a bit of chaos in the LIE realm here as of late and that you may be angry (little red faced character you posted suggests this is the case).
    I too have had moments of negativity recently on the forum and in some cases have written pieces but then decided not to post.
    Some here claiming to be LIE are just not so and it can be most obvious to some.
    The pattern will change however and soon LIE realm will settle and chaos will reign elsewhere!

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    IF you truly want to know how a LIE sounds like online, dig through pezzonovante's posts.

    I am a LIE too, but I have fallen from grace, so I shouldn't be an example.

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    Fallen from grace...how so?...(you don’t need to respond).

    I have read nothing to suggest that you have fallen somehow here on the forum and even if you had - we all fall now and again.

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    yup LIE is at the core of a lot of issues with this place

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    When I first arrived here, the tests I had taken all called me ENTj or LIE-Te. However, I guess my posts seemed different from those of previous LIE's on the forum, and I was often called an SLE or an LSE. I think it is natural for people to compare what is new to what they already know, and to draw conclusions of their own, right or wrong.

    In the grand scheme of things, my typing is only useful to me, in the sense that it can give me some insight into what I do and why I do it. I don't really see myself very well and I'm not sure why, but I was raised by two Delta's who were pretty sure about who I should be, and since their image was not Gamma, I had a hard time fitting into their mold. Although I tried. The description of an ENTj by Stratiyevskaya was the first time I actually recognized myself in any description, including the "bad" parts, and that has been very useful to me. It has helped me to stop trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

    What others call me matters a bit less than what I call myself.

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    well there's the fact that you don't think or talk like gamma at all, but since
    What others call me matters a bit less than what I call myself.
    this is quite a solipsistic statement from a self proclaimed extrovert

    you think of Te as talking about your job

    everything you say is some form of Ti autism

    anyway, just your daily reminder that Adam is everything that is wrong with typology communities

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    Quote Originally Posted by lavos View Post
    Are you aware that LIE's are among the rarest of the types (not making this up, there are statistics that I won't bother to search for right now).
    There have not been many studies done on Sociotype distribution, and I do not think you can glean much of value from MBTI statistics. As we know many of the functions in MBTI are very different to their Socionics equivalents, especially the Irrational elements (the Rational ones are pretty similar). I discussed this exact issue with @Myst a few months ago, in fact. Certainly, I don't perceive any connection between LIE and ENTJ.

    Quote Originally Posted by lavos View Post
    "We don't know what type this person is? They must be a LIE. They come from MBTI and they are ENTJ there? They Must be LIE. An overly adventurous person? A LIE. A bussinessman? A LIE! A boring overly by-the-book person? A LIE !!"
    Anyone who types based on stereotypes like the above is ignorant, so just ignore them.

    I tend to dismiss the type descriptions and focus on interpreting the core theory in my own way.

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    Why do you believe that LIEs are especially rare?
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    what is this noahs ark? whether or not LIEs are rare doesnt make you or adam LIE

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bertrand View Post
    what is this noahs ark? whether or not LIEs are rare doesnt make you or adam LIE
    Yes, those are two indipendently occurring events, and the likely falsehood of the first one (LIEs being rare) doesn't hinder the veridicality of the second (me and Adam being LIE).

    Still your post doesn't clarify my question. Can you be of use to this thread?
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    We should be looking for TRUE LIEs.

    LIEs being rare would increase (or decrease) the probabilistic likelihood of one being an LIE. And we could sort of infer the statistical validity by looking the total ratio of LIEs in this community.

    I think this sort of thing should be calculated probabilistically, anyway.

    It's all BAYESIAN.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Singu View Post
    We should be looking for TRUE LIEs.

    LIEs being rare would increase (or decrease) the probabilistic likelihood of one being an LIE. And we could sort of infer the statistical validity by looking the total ratio of LIEs in this community.

    I think this sort of thing should be calculated probabilistically, anyway.

    It's all BAYESIAN.
    This community is not a representative sample of the whole population, also sample size is very likely too small.

    Anyway, I'd like to see a document where LIEs (in socionics) are estimated as especially rare, because I don't believe it's true.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    When you do not agree with typing you have to type that person with XYZ type. Then you have to ask is this good reperesentative of XYZ type.

    Usually exemplars should be based on vanilla type representative.
    Eccentrics might break through publicly [or not] and eccentricity per se is not about type which just increases steam so speak.

    Well, Tarantino is not your standard LIE.
    extrospection > introspection

    Head type as in being truly head type and probably 7>5. Too divergent, scattered and expressive for typical 5 and that is the preferred way although long term focus usually helps.


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    There's no such statistics, only MBTI has such statistics due to the fact that they have "tests", which is supposed to be an objective measurement of a typing (even though the problem is that you may get different results each time you take the test).

    So Socionics has no tests, Socionics has to rely on personal typings, which may not be considered to be valid at all. Even then, it's the only thing that Socionics has. So if you are typed LIE by multiple people independently, then that will increase the probability of being an LIE by a significant amount.

    Well anyway this question/formula is pretty absurd, since we don't really know the actual statistics of the number of LIEs in a total population.

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    extrospection > introspection

    Head type as in being truly head type and probably 7>5. Too divergent, scattered and expressive for typical 5 and that is the preferred way although long term focus usually helps.


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    True LIEs aren't online, but in a web waiting for their fly.

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    Now a complaint is one thing - if you're fed up with it, it's not going to help. So: what precisely do you want us to do to prevent such fallacies? In other words, I wanna see you getting the priorities straight. E.g. leaving a typing open if you're not sure instead of assigning the LIE label to make up for it, not converting from MBTI, and so on.

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    Everyone knows that the only way to type someone correctly is to give your credit card to a Socionics High Priestess, who will enter a trance-like state to channel Big Hung Jung.

    If you haven't done this yet, you aren't legitimately typed.

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    I have transformed myself into alternate reality where Jung and Aushra were the best buddies.

    I asked about my type from them and got answers.

    Jung answered by giving cryptic riddle. Aushra gave me two n-dimensional symbols that according to her were better representatives of her current understanding of IEs. There was some sort of hypercube if I remember correctly.
    extrospection > introspection

    Head type as in being truly head type and probably 7>5. Too divergent, scattered and expressive for typical 5 and that is the preferred way although long term focus usually helps.


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    @lavos LIEs don't have the best tools to analyze themselves and they rarely seem to show their true natures - maybe not even to themselves. They can have tunnel vision toward certain objectives and adopt personas to better achieve them; sometimes I wonder if they're consciously aware of their own behavioural changes. And, it's hard for other observers to hit a moving target...
    a.k.a. I/O

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    Quote Originally Posted by Troll Nr 007 View Post
    I have transformed myself into alternate reality where Jung and Aushra were the best buddies.

    I asked about my type from them and got answers.

    Jung answered by giving cryptic riddle. Aushra gave me two n-dimensional symbols that according to her were better representatives of her current understanding of IEs. There was some sort of hypercube if I remember correctly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chains View Post
    True LIEs aren't online, but in a web waiting for their fly.
    Exactly. Unless their web is the Web. Freaking spiders.

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    When there will be objective proof that the method to type people used to get that statistics is good, then those numbers will get some meaning.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Honestly its probably a fairly even split amongst all the types.
    Projection is ordinary. Person A projects at person B, hoping tovalidate something about person A by the response of person B. However, person B, not wanting to be an obejct of someone elses ego and guarding against existential terror constructs a personality which protects his ego and maintain a certain sense of a robust and real self that is different and separate from person A. Sadly, this robust and real self, cut off by defenses of character from the rest of the world, is quite vulnerable and fragile given that it is imaginary and propped up through external feed back. Person B is dimly aware of this and defends against it all the more, even desperately projecting his anxieties back onto person A, with the hope of shoring up his ego with salubrious validation. All of this happens without A or B acknowledging it, of course. Because to face up to it consciously is shocking, in that this is all anybody is doing or can do and it seems absurd when you realize how pathetic it is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    @lavos LIEs don't have the best tools to analyze themselves and they rarely seem to show their true natures
    Well, sometimes they don´t show their true nature because they can actually analyze themselves, and may realize that showing your nature is not the best option given what the external environment requires at a given point in time.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Well, sometimes they don´t show their true nature because they can actually analyze themselves, and may realize that showing your nature is not the best option given what the external environment requires at a given point in time.
    As intelligent as they may be, analytical thinking and objectivity are not their strongpoints. Where they shine is being able to coalesce diverse concepts into concrete objectives and have the energy and focus to find the right people and resources to do the job. They know quality when they see it and they know how to lead it, but I would look to other types to actually produce a physical product other than a paper study.
    a.k.a. I/O

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    As intelligent as they may be, analytical thinking and objectivity are not their strongpoints. Where they shine is being able to coalesce diverse concepts into concrete objectives and have the energy and focus to find the right people and resources to do the job. They know quality when they see it and they know how to lead it, but I would look to other types to actually produce a physical product other than a paper study.
    a.k.a. I/O
    Oh, I agree with that completely.

    I was mostly referring to introspection.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    what

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    @FDG When under stress, they can become rather introspective, but then they seem to focus on their feelings and perhaps blame other people for their stress; they rarely contemplate being the source of their own problems.
    a.k.a. I/O

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    Quote Originally Posted by lump View Post
    what
    Everybody wants to be your dual basically
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    if lavos gets his way can we stop defining LIEs as people who are bosses and people who are bosses as LIE

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    @Rebelondeck knows what he's talking about.

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    So LIEs suck at everything colloquially understood to be logic and they're only good coming up with stuff for people to do and getting them to do it? I'm giving up and becoming SEI. I'm almost serious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    As intelligent as they may be, analytical thinking and objectivity are not their strongpoints. Where they shine is being able to coalesce diverse concepts into concrete objectives and have the energy and focus to find the right people and resources to do the job. They know quality when they see it and they know how to lead it, but I would look to other types to actually produce a physical product other than a paper study.
    a.k.a. I/O
    I remember Ganin putting this in bold in LSE type description on his site. I wondered, if shared with LIE, if it is maybe a quality of Te? If yes, i wonder what is it about Te that is tied to quality?
    "Inasmuch as it is nothing but pure communicability, every face, even the most noble and beautiful, is always suspended on the edge of an abyss"

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    Quote Originally Posted by lump View Post
    So LIEs suck at everything colloquially understood to be logic and they're only good coming up with stuff for people to do and getting them to do it?
    ESIs are the ones good at logic in the couple. U should feel proud
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Why do you believe that LIEs are especially rare?
    Because, apart from celebrities, I might have met 1 or 2 in my whole life (1 Ni sub and 1 Te sub -- and none here where I live). This is my personal experience. Barring that, there are statistics that show that LIE's are a very small percentage of the population (less than other types). I don't remember where I saw them, but they were Socionics stats, not MBTI stats.

    But my issue here is, that LIE still seems to be a pretty attractive type to for people to type themselves, people who are actually other types. The thinking seems to be in this case: "Hmmm, what's the coolest type? LIE. Therefore I must be this type". When actually they are IEI-Fe, LSI-Ti (will not name names), or something else. LIE is not the all-powerful ENTJ from MBTI.

    To be a legit LIE, you have to consistently demonstrate that you have Te and Ni in the ego, much like an ILI. This seems to have been forgotten, and people type themselves LIE just by looking at some crappy description very ennegram 3 sounding of how a LIE is supposed to be. If you are not wired like a LIE (model A), you are not a LIE.
    Last edited by lavos; 11-14-2017 at 07:22 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lavos View Post
    Because, apart from celebrities, I might have met 1 or 2 in my whole life (1 Ni sub and 1 Te sub -- and none here where I live).
    Perhaps you live in the wrong place.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    LIE is rare and you're not one, get over it. the two are compatible. LIE being common or evenly distributed and you (and Adam) being one has way more problems and is not at all what people see, at least the ones who haven't deluded themselves with a fantasy. chances of LIE being rare + there being a bunch of fakers = 1000x more likely than you being on the inside track and everyone else being wrong

    but whatever, if you want to distort the system you will just isolate yourself further... if gamma really becomes the shit pile who do you think benefits? you?

    me and lungs take our badass selves elsewhere and gamma becomes the butt of jokes revolving around money and everyone goes on treating you like the same dumbasses you always were... really not sure what the point of it all is

    but carry on as an example to others if you must, its just not at all the example you think you're being

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