EII/INFj and the nice "won't hurt anyone" stereotype
Is it really true that all INFjs are nice and wouldn't hurt a fly? I don't really believe in the stereotype but they're everywhere so I've been starting to have doabts. Those descriptions and stereotypes are there for a reason, right? But anyway, I want to know what up you guys think about it. Are INFjs really all super nice people or is it just an individual thing?
I find they tend to either fit that stereotype or are really passive aggressive. I guess it depends on how healthy they are psychologically though. Mind you, there is a lot of grey area in between as well.
“We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand.” Randy Pausch
Ne-IEE
6w7 sp/sx
6w7-9w1-4w5
not at all
I think a base level of respect is usually present, but that's not the same thing as kindness.
Fi is self-directed and Ne is idea(l)-driven.
they're more likely to dedicate their time and efforts to social/creative/intellectual interests than individual people. they do treat people as individuals, but it's all filtered through this personal ideal they've set for themselves, their attitude toward individuals is then tailored based on little behavioral nuances they notice in those individuals, but being aristocrats, sometimes those behavioral nuances are based on things not even directly expressed by those individuals, it's like guilt by association. it's after you notice the contrast between how they treat [x person] and [y person] that makes you go, "oh..."
Yeah genuine niceness is rare. it takes you aback like 'damn you really are that sweet & naive awww omg.' But the fake social business 'nice' thing is just blah. Any common asshole can do that. And with Ni we see through it all.
Some of every type can be extremely altruistic and warm while others can be the exact opposite; the majority are somewhere in the middle. Most EII that I've met are well-balanced and well meaning; they seem to be natural diplomats coming across as welcoming and interested. However, I've known a few to be idealistic preachers who've subversively tried to eliminate dissenters from their so-called Eden. I find that with most people, one has to get past a façade in order to see the real personality - some you'll never get past......
a.k.a. I/O
Better than a bad stereotype I say
Though I can see them throwing plenty of shade, you just have to read between the lines. Rarely vicious though still too aware of your shit. How do they cope knowing us all so well.
for good IR - yes. generally, as people are not perfectOriginally Posted by The Idiot
> Those descriptions and stereotypes are there for a reason, right?
sure. descriptions are for average
I don't love humanity, but I do believe in people. I try to understand them and assist them when I can, but I have also learnt to give up on toxic people instead of just getting used to them. Shitty people arise from shitty circumstances and my anger is toward the circumstances, not the people. If anything I pity those people. I fight to eradicate those circumstances, but at the same time I do believe some people need to be set in their place.
You need to be able to get along with people to get what you want in this life, it's just how it goes. I'm nice, but to a point. EII are meant to be highly empathetic people. I remember when I was a child I literally felt empathetic toward everyone and everything, but it's been drained the hell out of me over the years. Now I am VERY picky, I almost instantly know who is and who is not worth it, who aligns with my values and who doesn't, and I don't hide my feelings or observations about people anymore. I'm pretty open when something they do irritates me, sometimes to the point of incessant complaining (ugh).
I don't think its a matter of niceness, whatever that means... being passive aggressive or codependent is not being nice. It's gutless, learnt behaviour that I am working on haha.
I think it's just a matter of using your powers for good. I can totally see how I could fly off the handle and use it for "bad", though lol.
Last edited by velveteen; 11-10-2017 at 03:44 AM.
another thing... I think EII males can be pretty ass-y (more than the females) but you have to indirectly hurt their feelings or stomp on their feelings first I think. I have this theory that a lot of EII males are serial killers. I mean polite or cruel... dead is still dead.
EIIs are highly moralistic and insightful but empathy would be a challenge for them. Their processing style demands detached independence, which doesn't in any way facilitate walking in another's shoes; instead, they seem to search themselves for examples or close approximations. They can conduct excellent analyses of situations and propose superior life strategies for others, but too often, are ignored......
a.k.a. I/O
Yeah, I'm not sure I'm EII... your description suggests I'm not. A lot of people confuse me caring for their wellbeing and understanding the consequences of their actions as being moralistic, but I actually despise it when people are too moral or judgemental.EIIs are highly moralistic and insightful but empathy would be a challenge for them. Their processing style demands detached independence, which doesn't in any way facilitate walking in another's shoes; instead, they seem to search themselves for examples or close approximations. They can conduct excellent analyses of situations and propose superior life strategies for others, but too often, are ignored......
a.k.a. I/O
I'm not moralistic enough, tbh. I'm very adverse to moralistic and judgemental people and try very hard to get them to be more open minded.
I feel other people's pain in such a penetrating way, I feel it as though its my own. I don't even need to experience what they have to try and understand. In highly emotional and volatile environments I have trouble understanding how I feel because I am feeling all the feels lol. I need to be on my own to process my own emotions. I can make a clear analysis about situations and environments, but I'm very much feeling the feels and these analysis come from feeling and caring wayyyyy too much haha.
You seem to lean more toward IEI but if you're under 25, the dust hasn't likely settled.......
a.k.a. I/O
I'm 25 exactly haha. I've said this before, but I feel like a repressed IEI. I didn't have the greatest upbringing, it was dysfunctional and strict, and this whole year has been a search for myself and who I actually am.
Guess time will tell...
A feeling of repression is very Ip-like. So how close does this fit:I'm 25 exactly haha. I've said this before, but I feel like a repressed IEI. I didn't have the greatest upbringing, it was dysfunctional and strict, and this whole year has been a search for myself and who I actually am.
Guess time will tell...
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...iption-by-I-O?
a.k.a. I/O
Yikes. It's spot on.
I/O, that description really is pretty great. Do you have descriptions of the other fifteen types?
I've posted 4 on this site, and 2 on the socionics.com site with some uncovered profiles and temperament descriptions. I've written about all types but never formalized the others due to lack of ambition - and also since I deviate from Socionics models, there wouldn't much acceptance, which makes it a pointless exercise except to inspire amusing kickbacks....
a.k.a I/O
Gotlinks?I've posted 4 on this site, and 2 on the socionics.com site with some uncovered profiles and temperament descriptions. I've written about all types but never formalized the others due to lack of ambition - and also since I deviate from Socionics models, there wouldn't much acceptance, which makes it a pointless exercise except to inspire amusing kickbacks....
a.k.a I/O
There's the one above and I wrote others for LIE and LSI but I can't find them at the moment. I think I did this list before?
Temper - http://www.socionics.com/articles/behavetemp.html
ESE - http://www.socionics.com/articles/impressions_esfj.html
ESE Unc - http://www.socionics.com/articles/unesfj.html
LII - http://www.socionics.com/articles/on_being_intj.html
SLI Unc - http://www.socionics.com/articles/unestp.html
ESI Unc - http://www.socionics.com/articles/unisfj.html
SLI - http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...iption-by-I-O?
LSE - http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...iption-by-I-O?
ILI - http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...iption-by-I-O?
a.k.a I/O
But LIE and LSI were the only ones I really wanted. (Lol - many thanks, these are great.)
Any EII and IEE ones?
C-EII-INFj 4w3 Sx/sp 479
I'd been meaning to but never got around to it; I've taken lots of notes on them but the individuals that were of interest to me didn't impact me directly or my organization. In LII fashion, I study only to improve planning.....
a.k.a. I/O
..............................
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
95% of beta NFS feel "repressed" or some other general massive sense of life struggle.I'm 25 exactly haha. I've said this before, but I feel like a repressed IEI. I didn't have the greatest upbringing, it was dysfunctional and strict, and this whole year has been a search for myself and who I actually am.
Guess time will tell...
Then they turn to art, or drugs, or loosing themselves in problematic relationships, or esp if EIE, dramatism and causes and other pursuits to mend their sense of self. THis is more so if in the 3-4 part of the enneagram and less so in the opposite side of it.
#Stereotypes #NotReally
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
To answer this question more seriously, I'd say it depends a large part on their enneagram, as far as how they come across.
9w1 and 1w9 can seem quite cold, even detached, rigid, judgemental.
2s can be warmer
4s maybe more charismatic
6s are often analytical and can be very "balanced" and even try to seem rather "strong" in a general sense especially if counterphobic.
Phobic sixes will probably be more fleeting and potentially worrisome or nagging about things.
As i have said elsewhere,
I think the broadest general stereotype about deltas is this "good faith judgement" stuff, when in reality, it's more that no-judgement or a developing judgement is taking place, and there is filler or a buffer in the meantime. EIIs can have trouble with their own needs when they are in conflict or they feel a sense of giving or sharing something, but generally the more healthy they are the more upfront about all of that they are.
For a general sense of nice and perky or smiley, Fe-creatives (SEI, IEI) and even IEE, tend to be more "nice" all the time.
EIIs are probably more likely to be gentle and relatively good natured, but not particularly invested in creating a warm climate or doing a lot of emotionally obvious tending. Their work is more in understanding, comprehending, and helping process things. The irrationals I mentioned earlier (all "XXFps") feel, to me, to be generally more interested in how things "feel" and tend to that more. EIIs care, but they are more focused on authenticity of their feeling rather than its emotiveness -- on what it means, to them, or to others.
What sets EIIs apart here is that they are the only Te-dual seeking NF, or again out of the other types mentioned thus far.
But I think anyone with 4D Fi can be very morally bound and ultimately make a lot of their personal choices based on that, which would be their strongest evaluating element.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
Erm, I turned to alcohol when I lost my sense of self in another hooman, it helped numb me and "remedy" the existential dread for a while (in the worst way possible). I've always been at loss with my sense of identity. I know who I am, but I don't really and not having an effective support system, not being able to fully define myself, where I am from and where I am going has been a massive struggle for me (first generation immigrant feels~)
Now I'm a lot more level headed and working toward growth. I'm trying to express myself more, connect with other people and resorting to self defeatism less.
The actions of that particular EII do not sound like an Fi-user's at all. Fi is all about distinctions- either I like you or I don't. Her sending you a birthday card every year yet she does not like you sounds more Fe because it's niceties>personal feelings, don't you think? I know a lot of Fe valuers who try to include and do do nice things for people they don't get along with, and that would be really hard for an Fi-user to do, they'd rather avoid or forget about you instead of 'pretend'.
C-EII-INFj 4w3 Sx/sp 479
I don't think EIIs are nice people, but we do strive to be good to people, polite and understanding of other people's situations. I think that people confuse UNDERSTANDING with HELPING. With EIIs I think it's more of empathising with you because they understand the situation you're in and will not judge you for it. But that's different from the Fe way, which would be to actively care for you and make you feel better and DO stuff for you. I think Fe is more about what you would DO for people, and Fi is more about how you feel about this person's situation.
To answer your question though, no- not all EIIs fit the 'nice' stereotype, I personally am not a goody-two-shoes. I do things that would be considered wrong all the time and don't feel guilty about it, I get into conflicts with people, I curse, I hate, I judge, I envy... You get my point. But that doesn't change the fact that I try to be a good person.
C-EII-INFj 4w3 Sx/sp 479
She is an E1.
EIIs usually do understand relationships but they don't use the processes that facilitate empathy whatsoever; they're much too detached. And when they themselves are under stress, they tend to get in someone's face - likely a defensive move. In their analyses, they're quite capable of accurately judging people and their behaviours, including their own; however, they can do so from rather unbiased perspectives.
a.k.a. I/O
I feel as though I go on every board and find this thread. INTjs are nice, INFjs are nice, I'll look for more.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrenology
An optimist - does not get discouraged under any circumstances. Life upheavals and stressful events only toughen him and make more confident. He likes to laugh and entertain people. Enters contact with someone by involving him with a humorous remark. His humor is often sly and contain hints and double meanings. Easily enters into arguments and bets, especially if he is challenged. When arguing his points is often ironic, ridicules the views of his opponent. His irritability and hot temper may be unpleasant to others. However, he himself is not perceptive of this and believes that he is simply exchanging opinions.
http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.php?title=LIE_Profile_by_Gulenko
I prefer my Roman Pillars.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrenology
An optimist - does not get discouraged under any circumstances. Life upheavals and stressful events only toughen him and make more confident. He likes to laugh and entertain people. Enters contact with someone by involving him with a humorous remark. His humor is often sly and contain hints and double meanings. Easily enters into arguments and bets, especially if he is challenged. When arguing his points is often ironic, ridicules the views of his opponent. His irritability and hot temper may be unpleasant to others. However, he himself is not perceptive of this and believes that he is simply exchanging opinions.
http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.php?title=LIE_Profile_by_Gulenko
The people who try to appear the most nice are often the least. Truth.
People who try to "appear" anything are often the least of whatever that thing is.
Nice is relative. I deem being nice as being selfless, doing things and assisting people and expecting nothing back in return. Some people sugarcoat the truth to not hurt your feelings and think it's the nice thing to do, others are honest because they think it'll help you grow. Nice can mean a million and one things in different contexts and situations for different people.
Also, many people who blame others for transgressions are more guilty of the sins themselves and they're merely transferring their guilt to others to make themselves feel better.
Even ill-intentioned EIIs can appear nice because they're usually acutely aware of the expectations of society but this doesn't necessarily imply that they agree with these norms. They're quite capable of turning on a green light when they know someone wants to see a green suit. Type has nothing to do with nice.
a.k.a. I/O
I find this difficult to get my head round when their archetype is often called the empath.EIIs are highly moralistic and insightful but empathy would be a challenge for them. Their processing style demands detached independence, which doesn't in any way facilitate walking in another's shoes; instead, they seem to search themselves for examples or close approximations. They can conduct excellent analyses of situations and propose superior life strategies for others, but too often, are ignored......
a.k.a. I/O
If one limits the definition of empathy to the action of understanding or being aware of the feelings, thoughts and experience of another then they certainly are that. However I doubt that they can be really sensitive to and vicariously experience the feelings of another. They can project their own feelings and make good approximations but they don't have the abilities of say an ESE or even an SEI to really connect and be able to put themselves in another's shoes, so to speak. EII is more of a holistic moralist than an empath......
a.k.a. I/O
Thanks Rebelondeck.If one limits the definition of empathy to the action of understanding or being aware of the feelings, thoughts and experience of another then they certainly are that. However I doubt that they can be really sensitive to and vicariously experience the feelings of another. They can project their own feelings and make good approximations but they don't have the abilities of say an ESE or even an SEI to really connect and be able to put themselves in another's shoes, so to speak. EII is more of a holistic moralist than an empath......
a.k.a. I/O
I'll give it some thought.
I've encountered an EII who does not seem particularly empathetic to the thoughts/feelings of others. I have encountered EIIs who are, or at least seem to, but I've wondered if it's that they are 9's and introverts which makes them take a back seat. When someone asks questions and listens to your situation, it seems as though they are empathizing and being in your shoes.
Still, the subject of empathy in general is not necessarily type related, feeling anothers pain can be the case in any type, how they look to help the other person can be type dependent.
I don't equate understanding with empathising because I think that people can truly empathize without fully understanding the processes that they're experiencing. The associative processing of Fe-types is the better tool to actively link to the feelings of others in a rationalization sense whereas Fi-types have superior tools to objectively understand their situations. Fe-types rationalize in a group-hug (brain storm) sort of way, almost like they're getting into the heads of those around them and not entirely thinking for themselves while Fi-types detach from others in order to rationalize and really do think independently.
a.k.a. I/O
Last edited by Rebelondeck; 11-23-2017 at 10:31 AM.
Empathize: understand and share the feelings of another. (from google search)
I'm not sure how you can empathize without understanding, as it forms part of the meaning of the word.
But... I don't know about your response either. People who have been through a lot, or just one specific traumatic event, get help from others who've been through the same, which is why so many ex-addicts etc help people who are cleaning themself up, because they understand, and can therefore share and empathize.
You might be right rebelondeck, it's just a bit too much Ti going on there for me, i'll step out and understand there's plenty that's above me and i'm not able to get, and just muddle through my life, ha
But, empathy has qualities to it more than what socionics can explain, so, you're probably right in a way at least.
Thanks again.
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