How does it manifest? How do you recognize it?
Ni role
How does it manifest? How do you recognize it?
The Role function is sort of a "default mode" that can nevertheless be easily broken out of when the suggestive function is activated (e.g. by being around types with it in the ego block). So for Si leading types it can manifest as having a sort of cynical, mopey, or conservative attitude towards life in one's daily routine, but to also be easily wooed by promises of novelty or interesting information. I believe one SEI in the community described it as being easy to understand and follow (?) possibilities that one is familiar with, but have extreme difficulty "breaking out" of these to generate something new.
Okay, I try to delineate it as best as I can. This role steps in when the PoLR emergency imposed from the outside world just can't be tackled. SLI turns to "wait and see" in a dramatic event that requires a human shake-up, SEI does that when there's major method training tasks awaiting them. SLI just retreats and anticipates in an overly spectacular meeting of people where they are required to react in some expressive and pleasing way, SEI falls into inertia in a group project where all sorts of things ought to be done, collected, documented and whatnot. It sort of pretends to provoke's resolute initiative while in fact SLI and SEI are bored and helpless in terms of where things are going. "What am I supposed to do?!" - Freeze, says the
. I read that the role was made for the type when they need to get their hands dirty, this is what happens here. When
chill just doesn't work, turn into a victim of circumstances that postpones everything.
It's also used when they are confronted with their ignoring function, soaking up aggression while usually applying their creative as well (pragmatic coping or emotional appeasement coupled with their usual peaceful approach). It is a point of struggle as SEI and SLI aren't really fully aware of their purpose - needing ILE and IEE to point out the talents that they can actually utilize to get there. They don't see much of a point in abstract forecasts, preferring something more random and whimsical since an inevitable fate is quite a threat to their momentary comfort zone.
Can the Hidden Agenda function also be used for this purpose, or are they separate things? I tend to bust out (what I think is) Ti as a substitute in situations where people expect me to execute some Te.Originally Posted by Chae
Okay, I try to delineate it as best as I can. This role steps in when the PoLR emergency imposed from the outside world just can't be tackled. SLI turns to "wait and see" in a dramatic event that requires a human shake-up, SEI does that when there's major method training tasks awaiting them. SLI just retreats and anticipates in an overly spectacular meeting of people where they are required to react in some expressive and pleasing way, SEI falls into inertia in a group project where all sorts of things ought to be done, collected, documented and whatnot. It sort of pretends to provoke
It's also used when they are confronted with their ignoring function, soaking up aggression while usually applying their creative as well (pragmatic coping or emotional appeasement coupled with their usual peaceful approach). It is a point of struggle as SEI and SLI aren't really fully aware of their purpose - needing ILE and IEE to point out the talents that they can actually utilize to get there. They don't see much of a point in abstract forecasts, preferring something more random and whimsical since an inevitable fate is quite a threat to their momentary comfort zone.
Phobic So/Sp 6w7 3w2 9w1
Bit of a comic books nerd, bit of a fashion nerd, a lot of a generalized nerd
The Role is adaption so it's here you are normal
From a SEI perspective:
dynamic perception of the situation in the here and now
Trying to fit in by intuitively knowing when to act and when to wait, at what pace to work and trying to make the situation flow forward
It's a state of mind that one can be almost identified with. So it can be hard to discover.
There is always Te involved in SEI when using Role. SEIs can be very diligent workers.
Actually Ni Role was one of the first functions I discovered in myself when learning Socionics. I was working with an ESE in construction. He was very whimsy and could start something, and then interrupt it, and then suddenly start something else. People became confused. I noticed in myself a much more stable and adaptive dynamic perception that I identified as Ni Role. I needed to know what to do and how to act when everything was changing and unclear. In those demanding situations it can be painful, in more normal circumstances it less visible for oneself.
I have been typed ILI by a guy whom I met. I tried to explain that the base would show itself more after longer interaction, but that just made him more convinced that I'm Ni.
Many SEIs are in the Role a lot. I actually think that the common view of what Si is has been infected by Ni.
The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.
(Jung on Si)
How people discover that the role is weak?
(I think that lot of SxE put on some sort of openness mask which starts to fade when tested. It shows itself as bit mundane when you start to go deeper.)
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how do you see differences in SEI using Ni as role function and in IEI using Si as role function? your posts have been insightfulThe Role is adaption so it's here you are normal
From a SEI perspective:
dynamic perception of the situation in the here and now
Trying to fit in by intuitively knowing when to act and when to wait, at what pace to work and trying to make the situation flow forward
It's a state of mind that one can be almost identified with. So it can be hard to discover.
There is always Te involved in SEI when using Role. SEIs can be very diligent workers.
Actually Ni Role was one of the first functions I discovered in myself when learning Socionics. I was working with an ESE in construction. He was very whimsy and could start something, and then interrupt it, and then suddenly start something else. People became confused. I noticed in myself a much more stable and adaptive dynamic perception that I identified as Ni Role. I needed to know what to do and how to act when everything was changing and unclear. In those demanding situations it can be painful, in more normal circumstances it less visible for oneself.
I have been typed ILI by a guy whom I met. I tried to explain that the base would show itself more after longer interaction, but that just made him more convinced that I'm Ni.
Many SEIs are in the Role a lot. I actually think that the common view of what Si is has been infected by Ni.
Introverted Intuition (Ni, Ni)
SLIs are capable in the areas of mental abstraction, the use of their imagination, and making sense of patterns and phenomena around them. Usually, however, SLIs do not spend much time in fantasy worlds or inside their own heads, instead preferring to focus on the richness of their physical experience.
SLIs often feel a need to maintain some amount of autonomy over their lifestyles so that they are not bound by others' schedules or demands. They generally dislike hurriedness and prefer to operate on their own terms. They dislike relying on others or on the outcomes of various surrounding events that they have no control of; they instead often prefer to take an active, personal role in projects of importance to them. Many SLIs naturally place greater weight or importance things that they observe in person rather than place extensive focus on secondhand information.
Introverted Intuition (Ni, Ni)
SEIs are capable of mentalizing and devling into imaginative inner worlds, pondering past, future, and recognizing patterns and trends. However, they tend not to emphasize these aspects especially, instead emphasizing physical, tangible, and relational aspects, and the simple pleasantries in life.
SEIs may be very minimally inclined to think towards the future. They may resist thinking of long-term matters, seeing them as somewhat unnatural and secondary to the state of their immediate pleasure or experience. However, at times, they may recognize and become overly anxious about the importance of long-term planning, sometimes demonstrating a tendency to overthink or overplan situations, and to draw unrealistic assessments about their future.
Sociotype.com
These descriptions are lifted from wikisocion. "X are capable of..." is an overly PC way of putting it and does not truly address the function's unique qualities IMO. the role function is generally not very capable.
The question was 'how does it manifest'. We all know that 2D unvalued functions are not strong, that's not even the topic.
Broadly speaking, Role shows up sporadically and is developed assymetrically. The aspects of it that are favorable are developed to the point of passable adequacy, but inversely there are profound blind spots in the areas that person doesn't like.
For instance, with Si-Role, I can foster a calm personable interaction with strangers playing up my politeness and responding with a measure of tact derived from knowledge of my own reactions from others behaviors toward me.
But, I also cannot predict very well how my responses will affect others(Not good or bad effect, which is more Fe, but like calmed, intrigued, offset. Specific affect knowledge beforehand )outside of very impersonal small talk, or long term personal relationships(which is where it becomes an Fi domain). So it's adequately passable in situations I have needed it to be - Situations practiced where my base+creative combo faltered. But, it's also developed oblongly, and with holes. I still have huge trouble getting calm after getting worked up, I don't enjoy rest and sleep like normal people, and tons of basic human needs are foreign to me that are shocking to others.
Relating that to Ni-role. I'd think it would be something like, having a good sense of how an observed action will develop into something else bad the road and calling it, but also not realizing they themselves do the same thing. Or it could be the exact opposite, they have no idea what they saw would have a consequence of X, but they know not to do that without having put much thought into why. The point being, it develops in small pockets of the element disparate from the rest. All the super-ego functions do.
Projection is ordinary. Person A projects at person B, hoping tovalidate something about person A by the response of person B. However, person B, not wanting to be an obejct of someone elses ego and guarding against existential terror constructs a personality which protects his ego and maintain a certain sense of a robust and real self that is different and separate from person A. Sadly, this robust and real self, cut off by defenses of character from the rest of the world, is quite vulnerable and fragile given that it is imaginary and propped up through external feed back. Person B is dimly aware of this and defends against it all the more, even desperately projecting his anxieties back onto person A, with the hope of shoring up his ego with salubrious validation. All of this happens without A or B acknowledging it, of course. Because to face up to it consciously is shocking, in that this is all anybody is doing or can do and it seems absurd when you realize how pathetic it is.
I like that description of Role, where it can be trained pretty well but its very spotty or selective. in other words it adapts to the needs of the environment but otherwise can have big gaps. whereas HA tries to expand generally, role tends to only respond to direct needs, but it can be quite good at meeting those needs over time if there's strong environmental pressure on them
I think that's Super-Ego and Super-Id in a nutshell.
Super ego develops in concentrated areas (vertical growth) because they're conscious functions, and Super-id develops broadly(horizontal growth) because they're unconscious functions. But both are limited by being weak functions, and so there's less experience points to spend.
Last edited by Pookie; 11-06-2017 at 05:24 AM.
Projection is ordinary. Person A projects at person B, hoping tovalidate something about person A by the response of person B. However, person B, not wanting to be an obejct of someone elses ego and guarding against existential terror constructs a personality which protects his ego and maintain a certain sense of a robust and real self that is different and separate from person A. Sadly, this robust and real self, cut off by defenses of character from the rest of the world, is quite vulnerable and fragile given that it is imaginary and propped up through external feed back. Person B is dimly aware of this and defends against it all the more, even desperately projecting his anxieties back onto person A, with the hope of shoring up his ego with salubrious validation. All of this happens without A or B acknowledging it, of course. Because to face up to it consciously is shocking, in that this is all anybody is doing or can do and it seems absurd when you realize how pathetic it is.
I never thought of it that way but it makes perfect sense!
its funny cause I'd think of HA as going horizontal and superego as going vertical based on pressure, but it really is arbitrary and depends on how you understand depth, depth can be a linear push in the way superid functions just as well as breadth. or put another way, maybe whether your superid/ego goes horizontal/verical, depends on the contents of those blocks
in other words, it relates to the perception in those blocks. extroverted perception/introverted judgement in the superid feels like verticality, whereas introverted perception/extroverted judgement feel like horizontality
it might explain why we view things as operating the same way but we superficially characterize the "feel" differently
I made a typo lol
Projection is ordinary. Person A projects at person B, hoping tovalidate something about person A by the response of person B. However, person B, not wanting to be an obejct of someone elses ego and guarding against existential terror constructs a personality which protects his ego and maintain a certain sense of a robust and real self that is different and separate from person A. Sadly, this robust and real self, cut off by defenses of character from the rest of the world, is quite vulnerable and fragile given that it is imaginary and propped up through external feed back. Person B is dimly aware of this and defends against it all the more, even desperately projecting his anxieties back onto person A, with the hope of shoring up his ego with salubrious validation. All of this happens without A or B acknowledging it, of course. Because to face up to it consciously is shocking, in that this is all anybody is doing or can do and it seems absurd when you realize how pathetic it is.
so much for my theory!
I don't have any good examples because I don't know that many IEIs. But Si Role could manifest itself as an interest in materials and details in the surroundings. But in a slightly strained way. For example if the IEI works in an office. Like pens, papers & other materials.
Also if you get a chance to observe IEIs doing yoga (that happens sometimes) then you might see Si role also.
Also details like clothes, cell phones, hand bags etc. How these are used.
The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.
(Jung on Si)
I'm really into Muji pens, do you think that could be Si role, Tallmo?
Si role is when you get nice pens because you think that would improve your writing experience. Furthermore, if you have bad pens, it will mess with your mental state, and put you in a bad writing mindframe. Ni-leads mostly want to make sure that they won't end up experiencing life in a way that will mess up their thinking too much.
If the ruling on the paper is too wide, it will make me uncomfortable, and I will be distracted.
If I work out, it will make my energy levels better, and I will be in a better mood.
If I don't sleep enough, I will wake up tomorrow in a state of stress and won't be able to handle my day properly.
It's the normative aspect of the 2D function.
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Presumably the Ni role version would be trying to figure out what conclusions you're supposed to draw from a situation?
Phobic So/Sp 6w7 3w2 9w1
Bit of a comic books nerd, bit of a fashion nerd, a lot of a generalized nerd
I see it as part of a process rather than a role. Ni-types always make relativistic and relational comparisons to their knowledge base and ask others what they think about it. The only way one knows about the comparisons is when they communicate and they do need others to participate in their rationalization processes. Ask oneself, what are they discussing and almost always, its comparative measures that are relational in nature. It's easy with motor-mouth Ej-types but Ips can easily be coaxed into revealing this process if they're confident about their positions and or environments.....
a.k.a. I/O
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