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Thread: How the PoLR influences Ego functions

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    Fe PoLR in SLI.

    I think the avoidance of discomfort and focus on pragmatism makes hard to care too much about social conventions or emotional aspects.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post

    Ne PoLR in xSI. There is a need to "take care of everything". This often translates into responsibility, and can be a strength depending on the situation.
    @Tallmo, for me i notice in order to side pass (what I think are) Ne shortcomings I focus on skills, on achieving some kind of expertise. Would you say that's in line with your observations?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Syrup View Post
    Fe PoLR in SLI.

    I think the avoidance of discomfort and focus on pragmatism makes hard to care too much about social conventions or emotional aspects.
    I find Gulenko's recommendation of,

    'Since displaying emotional nuances is hard for you, you prefer to talk in a joking manner to sentimentality, due to this you can sometimes be misunderstood. Failures you prefer to endure in silence and solitude. To avoid any misunderstanding of situations, try to trust your partner and talk to him in a serious tone.'

    Is a good one, it sort of negates trying to use the Fe, and instead focuses on being constructive and rational (more of an emphasis on our strong functions), with hints of Fi put in - about establishing the relationship.

    Well I think for me, I can, or have, not quite understood what it's all about, i've maybe said what I think, honestly, not offensively, but not realizing the whole dynamic that comes into play, people don't always want to hear the truth, or what you really think. This can result in frustration then a really poor use of Fe, by 'lashing out', as Gulenko says,

    'Internal tensions that are inherent to you sometimes prompt flashes of anger and aggression, when you find it hard to contain your emotions, and later you may come to regret this.'

    It's low discrimination, it's like an on or off switch, loud or quiet, can't set it to volume 4, 5, 5.5 etc.

    So it's best just to avoid it all - what can happen sometimes is that when the Fe doesn't work, instead I can retreat to my HA - my Fi, and want to establish relations, being close to people, why don't we get on etc, which in part too is about Si, cause no one likes an uncomfortable situation.

    In most environments you can just leave, but it's not the case for everything.

    BTW - IEE types I've known like it when i'm honest, ie delivery of the 'facts' without dressing it up, they often find it humorous. This is good, but, it's not the best way to grow, sometimes criticism is good too, if it's taken constructively, cause we can't just live with IEEs, we've got to do other stuff too.

    ~My take on it all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Syrup View Post
    About Si PoLR in LIEs.
    Indeed they fail at looking and being natural, but the real problem is not just they physical rigidity, but the psychological one.
    They are unnatural in the psychological sphere but
    Its goes far more psyche, its also ignoring the natural flow of things, ppl and events with Si factor. It seems like they would arrange and command everything and everyone to fill their own will and 'vision' if they werent so Se weak. Lol
    It works with their Te and Ni because they seek efficiency in time/result equation, but they don't care about considering the natural flow of things and the deeds of human nature.

    Thats why they have SLIs as superv. Because we have Te and Ni too, and care for efficiency and time/result, but we can consider the Si factors of human nature that LIEs fail at seeing. They can be all good with prospection but without taking Si into account they will have a lot of trial and error before achieving consistent results. Especially if they work with ppl or managing groups.
    Sometimes it seems likw they consider or use ppl as if they were unanimated objectd, like tools instead of beings. They can create a very unconfortable feeling or atmosphere.

    Sounds like some sort of anxiety that manifests as meddling with things when it's not always necessary. Like they just can't let things follow their natural course and must steer it (including people). Or at least, they feel like doing it, am I correct?

    Now how does this theory manifests on SxEs and ILI? I'm specially curious about how would adapt to PoLR.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Playing With Fire View Post
    Sounds like some sort of anxiety that manifests as meddling with things when it's not always necessary. Like they just can't let things follow their natural course and must steer it (including people). Or at least, they feel like doing it, am I correct?

    Now how does this theory manifests on SxEs and ILI? I'm specially curious about how would adapt to PoLR.
    Yes, you are right. Its Te seek for efficiency with a clear Ni control of time. They can't wait for ppl, they need results now. When it happens for them being leading by a Si dom type, circumstances or something, and they are forced to wait or consider a less invasive method they feel bad and can have a crisis feeling like it was a waste time, energy etc. Its hard for them face reality and adapt to it, instead of trying to adapt reality to them.

    I've never had any kind of relation with an SLE or ILI. So I couldn't provide something valuable or supported by reality in that case. I know some SEEs, though.

    I think too much manage or physical control of the environment and particular interest in subjective feelings cloud naturally the interest and care about too logically narrowed things and perspectives. Thats why they value Te and Ni instead (helps Se Fi program ), while Ti obnubilate it.
    Last edited by Hope; 12-18-2017 at 05:40 AM.

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    This thread is off tracks.

    You guys are talking about the PoLR as something one ignores, but I talked in the OP about the opposite. That people actually are able to pay attention to the PoLR so that it influences the ego.

    Of course with the very restricted character of the PoLR, but still.

    But apparently very few people are able to see this.

    About Fe PoLR is SLI. I suspect it has something to do with excellence of the technical skill. It's an art.

    I made this thread because it is one of the most interesting phenomena I have seen in Socionics.

    I will continue my research on my own, in my own private Socionics laboratory.
    The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.

    (Jung on Si)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Syrup View Post
    About Si PoLR in LIEs.
    Indeed they fail at looking and being natural, but the real problem is not just they physical rigidity, but the psychological one.
    They are unnatural in the psychological sphere but
    Its goes far more psyche, its also ignoring the natural flow of things, ppl and events with Si factor. It seems like they would arrange and command everything and everyone to fill their own will and 'vision' if they werent so Se weak. Lol
    It works with their Te and Ni because they seek efficiency in time/result equation, but they don't care about considering the natural flow of things and the deeds of human nature.

    Thats why they have SLIs as superv. Because we have Te and Ni too, and care for efficiency and time/result, but we can consider the Si factors of human nature that LIEs fail at seeing. They can be all good with prospection but without taking Si into account they will have a lot of trial and error before achieving consistent results. Especially if they work with ppl or managing groups.
    Sometimes it seems likw they consider or use ppl as if they were unanimated objectd, like tools instead of beings. They can create a very unconfortable feeling or atmosphere.
    I'm going to take a shot and say that this does not relate at all with my experience with SLIs, especially the Te subtype.

    SLIs can also be quite impatient and pushy as leaders, and as ST types may be quite prone to consider people as unanimated objects. In fact me and the SLIs I know often connect on this trait of impatience towards reaching a specific goal. SLI mirrors are LSEs which are usually even more "slavedrivers" than your typical LIE.

    Also many LIEs will try to rely more on themselves or their closest associates to realize their visions. They're bad at micromanaging.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    I'm going to take a shot and say that this does not relate at all with my experience with SLIs, especially the Te subtype.

    SLIs can also be quite impatient and pushy as leaders, and as ST types may be quite prone to consider people as unanimated objects. In fact me and the SLIs I know often connect on this trait of impatience towards reaching a specific goal. SLI mirrors are LSEs which are usually even more "slavedrivers" than your typical LIE.

    Also many LIEs will try to rely more on themselves or their closest associates to realize their visions. They're bad at micromanaging.
    It wasn't an attack or anything.

    Is not impatience what I was talking about, but a lack of naturality in their views and therefore, approaches to a lot of situations. It can manifest in a lack of correct perception of the natural process of things which result sometimes in an excessive attention of the measurement of time and results over everything else, and an exact clear idea (among other stuff) of the steps needed to obtain certain results.

    I think I explained it clearly enough in the previous post. I don't know exactly why you are mentioning that SLIs can be impatient and pushy or that LIEs don't micromanage, it has anything to do with what I mentioned. In fact, I think that there is the possibility that you have problems understanding what I was talking about because you are Si PoLR.
    Last edited by Hope; 12-18-2017 at 06:41 AM. Reason: typo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Syrup View Post
    It wasn't an attack or anything.

    Is not impatience what I was talking about LIEs, but a lack of naturality in their views and therefore approaches to a lot of situations. It can manifest in a lack of correct perception of the natural process of things which result sometimes in an excessive attention of the measurement of time and results, and an exact clear idea (among other stuff) of the steps needed to obtain certain results.

    I think I explained it clear enough in the previous post. I don't know exactly why you are mentioning that SLIs can be impatient and pushy or that LIEs dont micromanage, it has anything to do with what I mentioned. In fact, I think that there is the possibility that you have problems understand what I was talking about because you are Si PoLR.
    Your English isn't very good imo. I tried to tell you this before but you misunderstood me.

    It sounds like you're saying that from your point of view LIEs seem rushed or in a hurry, trying to force results. That much could make sense from a Si-lead point of view. If that's what you mean. But you say it's not?

    And none of the rest follows. SLI are not better with people than LIE, and the steps needed to be taken falls under Te, with no reason that Te lead would have more problems understanding this than Te creative. . . So, however you intended that, it doesn't make much sense in my opinion.

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    I think the idea is LIE is often a victim of their own success--the strengths that create the ability to recognize and capitalize on opportunities and create a business are also those which make them weak across things like working conditions and ability to convey concrete implementation of the vision in a step wise manner (and also consider such things as a priority in moving forward, instead of something that gets worked out on the go, sometimes leading to a breakdown). SLI steps in at precisely this point because their job is not so much to innovate but to master. Ask any employee whether they want a boss who wants to innovate or streamline things, most will probably choose the later. In the Army the "good idea fairy" was the worst (treating everything as if you're a pioneer). In that sense LIE has a kind of built in obsolescence wrt to their relationship to subordinates as manager; in the eyes of their workers you can bet SLI would be liked more (but this is where LIE is best to abscond to the boardroom). A lot of socionics revolves around "relationships" within the context of close personal relationships. In business (depends on the business) Fe polr is practically irrelevant, most of the time. But Si gets worse and worse past the start up stage. In that sense the offset favors SLI. The bottom line is "the human factor" is averse to chaos, this manifests in a lot of different ways, but SLI makes it a priority to reduce chaos whereas LIE tends to be more comfortable with a greater degree of it, and sees in it a well spring of opportunities, which is not what most people want to deal with. Inasmuch as that is the case, once their base needs are taken care of, most people would rather have things run by a SLI. The "unnaturalness" of LIE is essentially saying that they don't quite respect this and it comes out in what they expect from people, which naturally leads to a heightened degree of discomfort which makes them less likeable, even if they're in some sense more "charismatic." These are the kinds of things that really bother people, not in the first minute of meeting a person, but in a long term employment setting it can be huge. It could ultimately end up with the LIE being ousted or losing control over various things, or coming under control of SLI precisely because the prevailing wind progresses in their favor

    i think it goes to the initial discussion where its like they want to generate Si but in a way that implicates total denigration of it as a method. Kind of like how EII wants to see Se things happen "make people do things" but without actually employing Se directly. LIE works to develop a Si result in terms of material prosperity, but without actually using Si along the way. Whereas SLI sees Si as a way of life, LIE sees it as a result only after a long term realization of a Ni plan. In that way though LIE creates global improvement of Si conditions. Whereas SLI is more local in their Si approach, living every day at a time etc. SLI in that sense actually aspires to a improvement in "ethics of emotions" for their efforts, in some sense SLI really does desire and appreciate Fe harmony, its just they go about it indirectly. Each of these approaches has strengths and weaknesses and consequences in the work place etc. you might say the SLI superego really does want to, ultimately, see a more global return on Fe, so when they are "more liked" in the orginization and ultimately end up "on top" of LIE you might see the super egos coming to fruition and so the change of place is a natural transition where each has sort of gets what they wanted out of things so the changeover naturally progresses from LIE->SLI.. its not really even adversarial, only from a position of power politics maybe it gets seen that way, or competition for "lurv" which is how Ti Se tends to view things
    Last edited by Bertrand; 12-18-2017 at 04:43 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bertrand View Post
    I think the idea is LIE is often a victim of their own success--the strengths that create the ability to recognize and capitalize on opportunities and create a business are also those which make them weak across things like working conditions and ability to convey concrete implementation of the vision in a step wise manner (and also consider such things as a priority in moving forward, instead of something that gets worked out on the go, sometimes leading to a breakdown). SLI steps in at precisely this point because their job is not so much to innovate but to master. Ask any employee whether they want a boss who wants to innovate or streamline things, most will probably choose the later. In the Army the "good idea fairy" was the worst (treating everything as if you're a pioneer). In that sense LIE has a kind of built in obsolescence wrt to their relationship to subordinates as manager; in the eyes of their workers you can bet SLI would be liked more (but this is where LIE is best to abscond to the boardroom). A lot of socionics revolves around "relationships" within the context of close personal relationships. In business (depends on the business) Fe polr is practically irrelevant, most of the time. But Si gets worse and worse past the start up stage. In that sense the offset favors SLI. The bottom line is "the human factor" is averse to chaos, this manifests in a lot of different ways, but SLI makes it a priority to reduce chaos whereas LIE tends to be more comfortable with a greater degree of it, and sees in it a well spring of opportunities, which is not what most people want to deal with. Inasmuch as that is the case, once their base needs are taken care of, most people would rather have things run by a SLI. The "unnaturalness" of LIE is essentially saying that they don't quite respect this and it comes out in what they expect from people, which naturally leads to a heightened degree of discomfort which makes them less likeable, even if they're in some sense more "charismatic." These are the kinds of things that really bother people, not in the first minute of meeting a person, but in a long term employment setting it can be huge. It could ultimately end up with the LIE being ousted or losing control over various things, or coming under control of SLI precisely because the prevailing wind progresses in their favor
    I agree with this. I, personally, am completely unable to create a comfortable environment in an Si sense (and I know I suck at this, so I prefer to have other people create the environments that they are comfortable with. I ask them what they want and then try to make that happen), and I prefer to work with SLI's whenever I can, because they are easy to work with, rarely complain, and they get the job done.

    My SLI ex-wife and I made a very good business team of our marriage. I initiated and future-planned and pushed, she looked for flaws in the plans and dragged her feet (she had veto power) if she thought the plan was too risky, and she made sure that all of the day-to-day details were taken care of, while I undertook the projects which brought in large returns.

    She is easy-going while I'm more abrasive. Our extended families liked her more than they did me. Even my parents liked her more than they did me. But if I hadn't been there, her outcome would have been significantly worse, because she always took the most comfortable, low stress, no hurry, low-risk, low return route.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I agree with this. I, personally, am completely unable to create a comfortable environment in an Si sense (and I know I suck at this, so I prefer to have other people create the environments that they are comfortable with. I ask them what they want and then try to make that happen), and I prefer to work with SLI's whenever I can, because they are easy to work with, rarely complain, and they get the job done.
    .
    how do you manage dumbing a post down, man? lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Delilah View Post
    how do you manage dumbing a post down, man? lol
    It isn't easy. It takes a lot of time and effort.

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    I need things to be meaningful and relevant to my plan of what I want in order to actually be productive and go somewhere.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Syrup View Post
    Fe PoLR in SLI.

    I think the avoidance of discomfort and focus on pragmatism makes hard to care too much about social conventions or emotional aspects.
    Yeah they can get annoyed because someone is disrupting their comfort, and yell at the person in public without thinking about the affect on other people's moods they cause.

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    As for EII, when things seem to be happening too fast around us we can freak and become too involved in our feelings and not notice the action or the things that need to be done. For example, the house can stay a mess and people can be running around, but we'll stay in the same place brooding and it goes over our head.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    Basic idea: The work of the ego functions seems to be influenced by the PoLR.

    Gulenko talks about the PoLR as a function that estimates and gives feedback (among other things).

    I started noticing that ILEs thinking and ideas often have an Fi theme. Like they are moral philosophers basically.
    This sort of stuff is them using their stronger functions to try to rationalize their weaker functions, in this case their Ti trying to rationalize Fi.

    I do this too, for instance, what's the point in worrying about what we say, that's irrelevant, don't you know there's work to be done? Caring about the emotional atmosphere, apparent niceties just gets in the way of us working, who produced the best figures? .... etc

    I don't this it's the case of giving feedback, except the feedback is, you suck at this, try to work it out based on the best tools you have (except those tools are not necessarily the right ones for the job).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scarper View Post
    .......... in this case their Ti trying to rationalize Fi..............try to work it out based on the best tools you have (except those tools are not necessarily the right ones for the job).
    There are T-processes that are identical to F-processes; there's an overlap region which may cause an ILE to look a little like the moral philosopher if time is spent there. Both T and F rationalize data and tend to analyse results (success or failure) rather than the way one rationalizes, which is largely out of ones control. All one can do is spend more time in the overlap region which refers to, as you said, the best tools one has. A type can learn new skills, approaches and workarounds but is stuck with some very basic limitations that cannot be overcome.
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    Well, I kind of have hard time of seeing pure philosopher. Seems completely senseless to me. How they'd really rationalize that into tight logical structure.


    Their compression is really lacking or reactive.
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    This is actually a great thing to observe…

    my ILE dad is indeed a great example of Fi, I’ve spent time wondering if he was an IEE because of how Ethical he is. He’s one of the most “pro-people” person I know, he tries to understand everyone and he’d never do anything to hurt anyone. He’d rather take the blame on himself instead of putting someone down or in an inconvenient position. He’d help anyone. Something which I find very funny when I start talking to him about the people I’m concerned about, is that he finds 1000 excuses to explain their behaviors, even if their behavior is admittedly rude. He has good words for everyone, because everyone can be going through something “who knows what he’s going through”, he’d say. This, yes, is very F(i).

    Mum was SLI and yet it was like all she strived for was that everyone in our little environment could get along with each other. She cared that even all cousins, grannies, and everyone of the family was involved and felt loved. She often would entertain us all as well, especially at lunch/dinner gatherings, sharing all sorts of episodes that she found were so funny, and she’d always start by saying “Now I’m gonna make you laugh! :- ) :-) :-)”, and often none would laugh because it was only funny to her, lulz. This looks like Fe somehow, if I’m not completely hallucinating.

    My ESI boyfriend that looks like IEE as well is another good example. His use of Ne is all over the place to me and it cracks me up all the times because it’s like he lives in a world of Ne, but only in some kind of imaginary reality that he’s aware is never gonna happen. He has such a great fun in talking of rainbows and unicorns and all kind of impossible things, he likes playing with words a lot too, and sometimes he gives me the impression he’s not even kidding about that all, sometimes I think he’s really some kind of unicorn himself. He can see the best in everyone too, and that’s another great deal of Ne.

    My ESI sister similarly is not as unicorn-like as my bf, but she often displays great deals of Ne. Whatever she sees that she’s interested in she can give glimpses on which contain all kind of imaginary and possibilities. She does and likes all sorts of different things, she even works in close contact with the arts, I’d say her Ne is quite activating of her main functions as well.

    For me, Se should be my polr and I can see how much I strive for and because of it. I can see how it’s definitely my weakest point, and because of this I really need it. Power, control are the kind of things that somehow play in the back of my mind in many occasions, to be completely honest. Even my manners, my display of emotions, are often tinted by this background Se (conscious) need.

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    Well, ILE lacks ethics in textual situations (= holographic panoramic sore point of ethics).

    How ever ILE is a thinker who thinks about about causes and effects foremost and therefore you'd expect ethics to be relatively intact.

    Like with LII's it seems even though a role their ethics resides in contextual awareness of situation and is not best possible in terms of thinking through chain of plausible causes and effects.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinoline View Post
    This is actually a great thing to observe…

    my ILE dad is indeed a great example of Fi, I’ve spent time wondering if he was an IEE because of how Ethical he is. He’s one of the most “pro-people” person I know, he tries to understand everyone and he’d never do anything to hurt anyone. He’d rather take the blame on himself instead of putting someone down or in an inconvenient position. He’d help anyone. Something which I find very funny when I start talking to him about the people I’m concerned about, is that he finds 1000 excuses to explain their behaviors, even if their behavior is admittedly rude. He has good words for everyone, because everyone can be going through something “who knows what he’s going through”, he’d say. This, yes, is very F(i).
    Fi polr in ILEs is more about in-the-moment stuff, I think. Like destructive social blunders in delicate situations (which can be sometimes useful).

    SEEs are sometimes far more rude and domineering than most ILEs even though they are ethical types.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Fi polr in ILEs is more about in-the-moment stuff, I think. Like destructive social blunders in delicate situations (which can be sometimes useful).
    Not sure of this, because Fe. They value it, a good social attitude and all that comes with it is appreciated, I guess it's even one of the sources of their ethical behaviors. Fi on the other hand is less "pro-people", and more about dealing with personal ethics, whatever they might be.

    As you said, SEEs with their creative Fi can come out as harsher, although they have a creative ethical function right there. But again, I think Fi ain't about niceties, rather about personal "morals", although this term makes me itch a bit.

    I'm not too sure I got the message of this thread right, lol but I had fun seeing the incongruences of the types with their functions and thought they made some sense...
    I'm thinking of my SEE friend and I can see how weak his Ti is, especially in relation to his Se natural orientation. He's willing to squeeze all the potential out of the present, he's the incarnation of "living in the moment", and it's fun to notice how little thinking naturally comes with that, right in the moment. His 'thinking' though is there, but it always involves people, as in -his relationship with them (Fi). So how does Ti work for him is in his background planning of everything, in his mind. Because I know very well, why he is like that (living in the moment) and how to exactly achieve such a "carelessness", he tells me all the times why and how. He likes to explain in detail how it's logical to be like that, to him it's the only way to be. I'm not sure he understands many other people are not always after instant thrills, but I like him for that, he always wants to have fun.

    On another level... F and T are both rational, and there's no real Logic without the consideration of the effects on a system, and there's no Ethics without the construction of a hierarchy of values. I like how this turns to be like the polr is actually another shade of the creative function... perhaps the repressive one?

    I was just reading this and found it illuminating: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Id,_ego_and_super-ego
    Last edited by ooo; 12-23-2017 at 01:08 PM.

  26. #106
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    Earliest memory: My mother and her friends had some sort of party in our house where different sorts of body creams were sold.
    I just pretty much went there and said that they were buying anti-wrinkle creams.

    Someone was studying pedagogy and I pretty much stated that it is going to be easy because it is basically nonsense.

    Stuff like that happens a lot.


    There are people who can handle it and then there are people who can not handle it. Statements like those can go deep within you and against your beliefs.
    (Calling people fat? I don't pay attention to it.)
    Intangible objective truth hurts... I think.

     

    ILE - I do not care what happens there in customary ways. I'm not really caring about my own stuff either
    SEI - I have low productivity. I also want to keep myself above the force
    ESE - What the hell is on the other side of developments, idk. I also do just mindless giggles
    LII - Uh duh, not gonna follow that part. Also experimental results are less important than my own farts.
    SLE – I'm master of the moment and that is it no care for the consequences. I also over stress my body.
    IEI – Uuh... I have my own views. Also there are no other perspectives.
    EIE – I'm the Jesus Christ so I live above this shit. Also influence is more important than being true.
    LSI – It is this way or the high way. I would rather wipe my ass with money than spend it wise.
    SEE – I just do whatever I want to do. Also the care of the world is secondary.
    ILI – Uh.. I just say shit for my own amusement. I also just keep on pushing.
    LIE – Opportunity – no time to actually consider own well being. I also push analysis away.
    ESI – The importance is here and now which tells who you are. I also have resting bitch face.
    IEE – But this context is just way too precious to think ahead. I also lack singular focus.
    SLI – Ooh, I just know what is the best for all. I can't force myself to do routine.
    LSE – Things go the way I know they go. That is it.
    EII – I don't have a presence. It is out of question. Smiling can be bit hard too.

    Last edited by The Reality Denialist; 12-23-2017 at 01:06 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    Basic idea: The work of the ego functions seems to be influenced by the PoLR.

    Gulenko talks about the PoLR as a function that estimates and gives feedback (among other things).
    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo
    I started noticing that ILEs thinking and ideas often have an Fi theme. Like they are moral philosophers basically.
    I was discussing and debating with an ILE from a Chinese MBTI community and it seems that she is kind of influenced by her Fi. Also her use of Fi causes a lot of discomfort and her ability in Fi is weak. So I think this may explain it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo
    LIIs want the analysis to be pragmatic and connected to some reality. Finding "solid ground" for an analysis. (Se PoLR)
    This works for me. I want may theories to be pragmatic although I prefer researching in theories to doing applications.

    I find it interesting that I once read something written by Ermak:

    Quote Originally Posted by [FONT=&amp
    Ермаку[/FONT]]
    In superblocks Mental and Lytal, Superego and Superdid blocks appear managingEgo and Eid Executive.


    http://socionicasys.org/teorija/po-ermaku/model-tima/bloki-i-superbloki

    Machine translating. He says that Superego and Superid blocks are managing blocks while Ego and Id blocks are executive blocks. It gives me a sense that Super means "supervising" here.

    But when I read it I didn't really understand it since his writing is kind of awkward. His naming of the functions are different from what we know. http://socionicasys.org/teorija/po-e...l-tima/funkcii

    However, now after reading and thinking about this post, I find that his naming are intersting.

    His naming of functions:
    1- Intellect
    2-Social Creativity
    3-Social Norms
    4-Social Experience
    5-Individual Experience
    6-Individual Standard
    7-Individual Program
    8-Individual Creativity

    Obviously his naming of functions are related to the functional dimension theory. But I find that there's a logic such that mental ring is socially oriented while vital ring is individual.

    So in the social perspective it is the society which supervises ourselves --> superego block, while being subdued, manages the ego block
    In the individual perspective it is what we values manages our instincts --> superid block supervies the id block.

    From this perspective it seems logical.
    Last edited by CR400AF; 05-09-2021 at 02:21 AM.

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    Fe PoLR of ILI: To decipher and understand the causes and therefore predic Fe in a plea to be technicaly irreproacheable. It isn't about doing anything with feelings, but about avoiding it with the mean of NiTe.
    Does that align with what you're saying @Tallmo ?

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    May look like an LSI, but -Te. Metaphor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    LIIs want the analysis to be pragmatic and connected to some reality. Finding "solid ground" for an analysis. (Se PoLR)
    I wouldn't say pragmatic, it's rather categorized or well-associated to a structure, doesn't necessarily have to be pragmatic.
    Although, it's at least apt enough to follow the proper procedures to manage the laws in that sense.
    Finding "solid ground" is rather to be evidential, empirical, rational, and scientific to reach a certain conclusion by reality as the medium.
    Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel: "The history of the world is none other than the progress of the consciousness of freedom."

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    Machine translating. He says that Superego and Superid blocks are managing blocks while Ego and Id blocks are executive blocks. It gives me a sense that Super means "supervising" here.

    But when I read it I didn't really understand it since his writing is kind of awkward. His naming of the functions are different from what we know. http://socionicasys.org/teorija/po-e...l-tima/funkcii

    However, now after reading and thinking about this post, I find that his naming are intersting.

    His naming of functions:
    1- Intellect
    2-Social Creativity
    3-Social Norms
    4-Social Experience
    5-Individual Experience
    6-Individual Standard
    7-Individual Program
    8-Individual Creativity

    Obviously his naming of functions are related to the functional dimension theory. But I find that there's a logic such that mental ring is socially oriented while vital ring is individual.

    So in the social perspective it is the society which supervises ourselves --> superego block, while being subdued, manages the ego block
    In the individual perspective it is what we values manages our instincts --> superid block supervies the id block.

    From this perspective it seems logical.
    School of Socionics is very concise and coherent at explaining Socionics IME's Model blocks here.
    I would take one of Yermak's explanation right here:

    http://en.socionicasys.org/teorija/p...podhod/sistema

    And here is the picture that ascribes the system structure of the psyche:

    Attachment 17269
    Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel: "The history of the world is none other than the progress of the consciousness of freedom."

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