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Thread: Carefree and Farsighted

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    Default Carefree and Farsighted

    carefree types are EN or IS, farsighted types are ES or IN.

    So this means that SLE is farsighted, but LSI is carefree? How can EP temperament be farsighted and IJ temperament be carefree? This directly contradicts eachother. Have you ever seen a farsighted SEE or SLE or a carefree LSI and ESI? I dont understand

    Carefree types


    1. Inclined to solve problems by primarily using that information which is 'at hand'. Accordingly, their solutions are likely to be particular to that situation.
    2. The search for the solution is implied in the answer.
    3. “You cannot prepare for everything.”


    Farsighted types

    1. Inclined to solve problems by primarily using that information which they possess through knowledge and experience. Accordingly, their solutions are likely to be of a general nature.
    2. The search for the solution is explicit in the answer.
    3. “It is best to prepare in advance.”



    http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.p...and_farsighted

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    Quote Originally Posted by Number 9 large View Post
    carefree types are EN or IS, farsighted types are ES or IN.

    So this means that SLE is farsighted, but LSI is carefree? How can EP temperament be farsighted and IJ temperament be carefree? This directly contradicts eachother. Have you ever seen a farsighted SEE or SLE or a carefree LSI and ESI? I dont understand

    Carefree types



    1. Inclined to solve problems by primarily using that information which is 'at hand'. Accordingly, their solutions are likely to be particular to that situation.
    2. The search for the solution is implied in the answer.
    3. “You cannot prepare for everything.”


    Farsighted types


    1. Inclined to solve problems by primarily using that information which they possess through knowledge and experience. Accordingly, their solutions are likely to be of a general nature.
    2. The search for the solution is explicit in the answer.
    3. “It is best to prepare in advance.”



    http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.p...and_farsighted
    You are correct per say, it's one of those "nested" concepts, very convoluted. It's wrong interpreting it at face value because there's an explicit contradiction driven by standard temperament behaviour.

    Rather they meant that on "EN/Ne energy" IS+EN types are so-called "carefree":
    * EN types naturally occupy that realm,
    * IS types don't, instead occupying the "IS/Si energy" realm: their realm nullifies ES/Se + IN/Ni energy because it challenges them - so they can be said to be "carefree" on EN/Ne energy.

    I find that the system is flawed because whilst IS types don't oppose "EN/Ne energy" they don't contribute to it either. BTW the same pattern applies for IN/ES types.

    ES types are all decisive. This is especially true for authentic LSE + ESE and in reality they contradict their quadra values. This is especially pronounced when their DCNH is extroverted - ie "Dominant" as Beta quadra vibes & "Creative" Gamma quadra vibes. IN types lack any decisive energy of whatsoever (Dominant and Creative subtypes distort the signal but at core their are inert).
    Last edited by Soupman; 10-18-2017 at 03:39 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Soupman View Post
    You are correct per say, it's one of those "nested" concepts, very convoluted. It's wrong interpreting it at face value because there's an explicit contradiction driven by standard temperament behaviour.

    Rather they meant that on "EN/Ne energy" IS+EN types are so-called "carefree":
    * EN types naturally occupy that realm,
    * IS types don't, instead occupying the "IS/Si energy" realm: their realm nullifies ES/Se + IN/Ni energy because it challenges them - so they can be said to be "carefree" on EN/Ne energy.

    I find that the system is flawed because whilst IS types don't oppose "EN/Ne energy" they don't contribute to it either. BTW the same pattern applies for IN/ES types.

    ES types are all decisive. This is especially true for authentic LSE + ESE and in reality they contradict their quadra values. This is especially pronounced when their DCNH is extroverted - ie "Dominant" as Beta quadra vibes & "Creative" Gamma quadra vibes. IN types lack any decisive energy of whatsoever (Dominant and Creative subtypes distort the signal but at core their are inert).
    yea so wtf is this shit. how is no one seeing this or caring about this?

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    Carefree vs Farsighted is pretty much just a difference of what kind of info is being used to solve a problem.
    To solve a problem, Farsighted will use general noncontextual knowledge/experience to solve problems.
    Carefree will use available info about the contexts of the situation at hand.

    ----
    People commonly confuse the following sets with the others:
    *Process/Result
    *Tactics/Strategic
    *Carefree/Farsighted


    For example: ESFp are process + strategic + farsighted: Strategic means that they have a definite goal in mind that they'll use any means necessary to obtain. Process means they'll do a single procedure in sequential steps from beginning to end to obtain that goal. Combined it means that if at the end of a procedure or set of steps that they're not at/closer to their end goal, then they'll keep the same goal but switch to a different procedure to obtain it. From the outside, this switching of procedures can appear to be a "carefree" approach. But "carefree" in socionics means solving a problem using the info 'at hand', particular to specific situation rather than a generalized solution. Instead, ESFp solve problems that come up based on info they have accrued through personal knowledge and experience, and that the solutions are likely to be generalized rather than specific to the situation and context at hand. So the procedures they use to reach their desired goal will likely be methods that are 'common knowledge' or solutions typically used to reach that kind of goal.

    While an ENFp is result + tactical + carefree: Tactical means they might have a hazy/generalized goal in mind, but nothing specific, mostly a kind of direction they'd like to go in. The goal can easily change depending on how things are moving. (Note: some people interpret that as being "process".) Result means that their tasks/steps are kind of randomish and even doing multiple tasks at once. They don't have a set procedure in mind to follow, but might try this method here, that method there, both in conjunction even. Combined, this means that the results of each task led them to a particular direction, and so their end goal alters to suit these results. This also seems "carefree", and in socionics terms they ARE "carefree" in that they're focusing on solving problems that come up in context, according to the specifics of the situation. So their solutions will seem randomish, their goals seem randomish, and the next steps they decide to take may seem randomish.

    Whereas the ESFp is quite focused on a specific singular goal that they'll defend, using tried and true generalized solutions/methods, that they'll also defend.

    ISTj's are often accused of being stuck, linear thinkers, (Process type = single tasking procedural focus from beginning TO end), but they are also tactical and carefree types. They'll modify their goals based on the procedures they've chosen and solve upcoming problems based on the info they have at hand about the contextuals of a particular situation, rather than sticking with possibly non-applicable generalized solutions. I don't think they get enough credit for that.

    ((Note: One of the things to be wary of is when a person is describing how they achieved something. Just because a person can list the steps they took that got them where they are, that doesn't mean that a) that was their original goal, nor b) that was their original plan.))
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    Reinin heresy

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    you don't need to use the word "carefree" or "farsighted", it is easier to just us a/b, c/d, e/f/, g/h et cetera. Reinin chose lots of bad words to describe his dichotomies (type yourself by reinin dichotomies is one of the worst way to type yourself, or any other person, also)
    CETERUM AUTEM CENSEO WASHINGTON D.C. ESSE DELENDAM

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    Quote Originally Posted by totalize View Post
    you don't need to use the word "carefree" or "farsighted", it is easier to just us a/b, c/d, e/f/, g/h et cetera. Reinin chose lots of bad words to describe his dichotomies (type yourself by reinin dichotomies is one of the worst way to type yourself, or any other person, also)
    True to all of the above. Some dichotomies are much better described with completely different terms unrelated to the ones he chose, and there's far too much confusion and difficulty sorting people via many of them to use them for typing. Reinin himself does not use them for typing people.






    note: Reinin's book re. types and also reinin traits can be found in full in the attachment here if anyone's interested
    Last edited by squark; 10-19-2017 at 08:50 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    True to all of the above. Some dichotomies are much better described with completely different terms unrelated to the ones he chose, and there's far too much confusion and difficulty sorting people via many of them to use them for typing. Reinin himself does not use them for typing people.
    Some guy made a simple 'test' a few years ago and shared it with us. I don't remember who nor where it's at anymore (a whole computer or two ago). But one of the things I liked about it was the ability to click on the most obvious traits about a person, and it would help narrow down what that person could be. It was also a great way to see what some of the differences between people of a same type might be. Person A might express more of IEE's X, Y, Z traits, but Person B might express more of IEE's U, V, W traits. Giving each IEE a different feel.

    However, at most, it's only one tool, and not the best tool for typing, either.
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    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    Some guy made a simple 'test' a few years ago and shared it with us. I don't remember who nor where it's at anymore (a whole computer or two ago). But one of the things I liked about it was the ability to click on the most obvious traits about a person, and it would help narrow down what that person could be. It was also a great way to see what some of the differences between people of a same type might be. Person A might express more of IEE's X, Y, Z traits, but Person B might express more of IEE's U, V, W traits. Giving each IEE a different feel.

    However, at most, it's only one tool, and not the best tool for typing, either.
    I remember that tool, and agree with everything you've said here.

    Sometimes there are traits that ARE very clear in a person, and you only need to be very sure on a couple of them to narrow down your type substantially. But, if someone doesn't know their type at all they may end up even more confused. Especially with the way the traits are named.

    And you're right, since there's a gradient in how each of the traits are expressed you do get a rather different flavor of type depending on which ones a person shows most strongly.

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    Carefree will buy a 40oz

    Farsighted will think a head and buy a case.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Number 9 large View Post
    carefree types are EN or IS, farsighted types are ES or IN.

    So this means that SLE is farsighted, but LSI is carefree? How can EP temperament be farsighted and IJ temperament be carefree? This directly contradicts eachother. Have you ever seen a farsighted SEE or SLE or a carefree LSI and ESI? I dont understand

    Carefree types


    1. Inclined to solve problems by primarily using that information which is 'at hand'. Accordingly, their solutions are likely to be particular to that situation.
    2. The search for the solution is implied in the answer.
    3. “You cannot prepare for everything.”


    Farsighted types

    1. Inclined to solve problems by primarily using that information which they possess through knowledge and experience. Accordingly, their solutions are likely to be of a general nature.
    2. The search for the solution is explicit in the answer.
    3. “It is best to prepare in advance.”



    http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.p...and_farsighted
    Where is the "Love" button? This is an extremely clear example of how the Reinin dichotomies are defined wrong. There is no way LSI (and ESI!) corresponds to “You cannot prepare for everything.”

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