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Thread: Socionics For Dummies

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    When reading about your Enneagram type does not make you a little bit uncomfortable, or doesn't irk or annoy you a little at least in the beginning, it is probably not the right one.

    Reading about the flaws of your Enneagram type should really hit a soft spot in you. You should go "Ouch, yeah, that is me, ugh." It needs to sting a little. It needs to frustrate you a little (or a lot).

    Whenever someone speaks too freely and casually about their Enneagram type, it is rather obvious it is most likely not their actual type, but just a wing, a fix, or neither.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    @Bertrand I'm supposing that even before empiricism was formalized as a concept there was still some general sense of operating under parameters that were generally observable and demonstrable. a single individual can find that it "works" to howl at the moon every third Wednesday for good luck, and try to bring others around to applying this practice because they find it useful, but unless they could show their work, so to speak, I'm hard pressed to consider this Te.
    from jung:

    Extraverted thinking, therefore, need not necessarily be a merely concretistic thinking it may equally well be a purely ideal thinking, if, for instance, it can be shown that the ideas with which it is engaged are to a great extent borrowed from without, i.e. are transmitted by tradition and education. The criterion of judgment, therefore, as to whether or not a thinking is extraverted, hangs directly upon the question: by [p. 429] which standard is its judgment governed -- is it furnished from without, or is its origin subjective? A further criterion is afforded by the direction of the thinker's conclusion, namely, whether or not the thinking has a preferential direction outwards. It is no proof of its extraverted nature that it is preoccupied with concrete objects, since I may be engaging my thoughts with a concrete object, either because I am abstracting my thought from it or because I am concretizing my thought with it. Even if I engage my thinking with concrete things, and to that extent could be described as extraverted, it yet remains both questionable and characteristic as regards the direction my thinking will take; namely, whether in its further course it leads back again to objective data, external facts, and generally accepted ideas, or not. So far as the practical thinking of the merchant, the engineer, or the natural science pioneer is concerned, the objective direction is at once manifest. But in the case of a philosopher it is open to doubt, whenever the course of his thinking is directed towards ideas. In such a case, before deciding, we must further enquire whether these ideas are mere abstractions from objective experience, in which case they would merely represent higher collective concepts, comprising a sum of objective facts ; or whether (if they are clearly not abstractions from immediate experience) they may not be derived from tradition or borrowed from the intellectual atmosphere of the time. In the latter event, such ideas must also belong to the category of objective data, in which case this thinking should also be called extraverted.

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    That moment when Te PoLR tries to describe Te.
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    Te polr criticizing Te polr for not understanding Te bcuz Te polr. meta

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    Imago determines what you are the most attracted to, but your Dual is the kind of person you unconsciously expect in the ideal scenario.

    First, you fall for someone. Then, you'll unconsciously expect them to act like your Dual (or at least like yourself, aka an Identical).

    The ensuing power struggle will revolve around how much or well your partner can live up to your unconscious expectation.

    Of course the "better" the ITR and the closer to your Dual (or Identical) your partner is, the less intense those power struggles will be.

    And then there are power struggles beyond Socionics, like gender role related ones.
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    For lonely SX first (sometimes even second) individuals, a belief in God can give them the impression they are part of some magical, forever enduring union with someone.

    Aka "I am in a relationship with Jesus".
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    Not even Gulenko is married to his Dual.

    Duality is not common nor necessary, yo.

    All those "studies" (cough) who claim Duality is the most common relation amongst couples are bs.
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    No, the types are not evenly distributed.

    Socionists just want an idealized world where everyone has an "equal chance" of ending up with their Dual. Confirmation bias.
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    I find typology awfully convenient for those that like to push their subjective views on others or refuse to accept reality as it is. Many seem to want unquestioned acceptance of theories whether or not there is evidence for them. "You ask for evidence? I don't have to. I prefer 'Ti' so it just has to make sense to MeMeMe." Or, the real kicker, "I prefer intuition, so unlike you I don't build My worldview from stupid sensory data man, so I don't need 'evidence'. I am so Deeeeeepah." This is the impression typology gives. Maybe knowlege of reality require both te and Ti to make sense of the world.

    The scientific worldview is intuitive as well as rational and empirical. It doesn't follow that just because one argues from a particular philosophical tradition that they are cognitively biased. All perspectives cannot be equally valid or true. This is false eqivalency. Some are closer to the truth than others.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skeptitron View Post
    I find typology awfully convenient for those that like to push their subjective views on others or refuse to accept reality as it is. Many seem to want unquestioned acceptance of theories whether or not there is evidence for them. "You ask for evidence? I don't have to. I prefer 'Ti' so it just has to make sense to MeMeMe." Or, the real kicker, "I prefer intuition, so unlike you I don't build My worldview from stupid sensory data man, so I don't need 'evidence'. I am so Deeeeeepah." This is the impression typology gives. Maybe knowlege of reality require both te and Ti to make sense of the world.

    The scientific worldview is intuitive as well as rational and empirical. It doesn't follow that just because one argues from a particular philosophical tradition that they are cognitively biased. All perspectives cannot be equally valid or true. This is false eqivalency. Some are closer to the truth than others.
    Maybe you should start your own thread on the subject.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olimpia View Post
    When reading about your Enneagram type does not make you a little bit uncomfortable, or doesn't irk or annoy you a little at least in the beginning, it is probably not the right one.

    Reading about the flaws of your Enneagram type should really hit a soft spot in you. You should go "Ouch, yeah, that is me, ugh." It needs to sting a little. It needs to frustrate you a little (or a lot).

    Whenever someone speaks too freely and casually about their Enneagram type, it is rather obvious it is most likely not their actual type, but just a wing, a fix, or neither.
    Some people are more comfortable with facing their demons than others, and so will talk more openly about their own struggles re. their E-type -- but it IS a struggle, and if those tendencies one fights within oneself are easy to overcome, they probably weren't that significant to begin with, and so yes, probably that isn't their type. Perhaps this applies more to some types than others though, because some types have the quality of ignoring or dismissing/denying things as part of their type fixation. Things then that you might say "ouch" to re. your type, won't penetrate deep enough into their psyche to affect them regarding theirs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pinoline View Post
    that's actually controversial because we know empiricism was born out of analyzing the sky phenomena. the first mathematical instruments were formulated for keeping track of the time, or for calculating the distance of the stars, with astrolabes ( 2 millenia BC).
    the officicial writings in such an old period involved for the most parts ritual and esoteric practices, exorcisms and foretelling were a part of the Higher Education of the scribes and vizirs, the sages of the time; as praying to the gods was not only common but mandatory.

    in such a scenario it's difficult to determinate what is empirical and what is tradition, because empiricism is based on those traditions.
    we've changed traditions for sure, but empiricism mechanism didn't change.

    time concept for example is not Newtonian at all, it resembles the Augustinian idea of soul better, and there are places on Earth were time runs faster than in other places... yet we all use a Standard Model to keep us all well aligned in time.

    cultural biases are always entangled, so hard to tell : )
    so during that time period, a Te type who found it useful to howl at the moon might have been better able to substantiate their theories using external bodies of information.
    did you miss the point on purpose so you could share ur knowledge of ancient history, or what?

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    yeah Te is just the flipside to Fi, so if doing x makes you feel better there is some small Te component to it, this demonstrable proof aspect to it is more about Se imo

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    if taking any action that works for you or makes you feel good is Te, then everybody is Te and the concept of Te becomes useless as a descriptor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WinnieW View Post
    Does being emotional sensitve imply that is one of my weaker or stronger functions?


    Does make sense for me.
    I mean, not to throw shade on this, but this is trivially true--in any description of contact subtype its defined as looking more like their mirror

    so to turn around and say "self proclaimed ambiverts are likely contact subtypes" is true by definition because contact subtype is defined by ambiguous ambiversion

    it phrases something built in as some kind of prediction

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    Quote Originally Posted by Olimpia View Post
    Maybe you should start your own thread on the subject.
    I'm too lazy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    if taking any action that works for you or makes you feel good is Te, then everybody is Te and the concept of Te becomes useless as a descriptor.
    Just like Fi! Everyone had subjective values and ethic. NTs value logic, therefore Fi!

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    @WinnnieW, at some point Mr Nardi describes INTPs (TiNe) brain reaction to shame: if any other type get slightly triggered in the shame neocortex region of the brain, for little occurrences, an INTP instead lacks those low shame signals, resulting in his avoidment/non comprehension of social etiquette; but it's not that this region of the brain never alights, in fact when the INTP is triggered by a situation that is particularly shameful, for him, the shame response in the brain will not only alight but expand like domino, resulting in an INTP that gets tomato red and can't talk anymore.
    Is this related to low Fe (reception of outside dynamics) and Se polr (bad control of stimuli)?

    this can show that not necessarily what we overreact to is the side of us more developed, it's usually the least developed the most troublesome. my 2 cents summary of the Psycho types...


    min. 17

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    When you deal with duals/semi-duals/activators having romance interest to you - there are low chances to resist their feelings without return ones, except when your heart is occupied already. Take this into account and don't meet them IRL if you prefer to avoid relations with them. By the self-induced phenomena the feelings of both will rise soon to the degree when both will loose their heads.

    The interesting scenario appears when you get several such challengers for your heart. Any choice will be good and bad there.
    The foolest idea is to organise the meeting with other Socionics fans with taking part in it of your romance pair befor you got liabilities between you. Types and good IR may be understood there quickly what may promote the mentioned situation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Olimpia View Post
    For lonely SX first (sometimes even second) individuals, a belief in God can give them the impression they are part of some magical, forever enduring union with someone.

    Aka "I am in a relationship with Jesus".
    Loneliness isn't required, but yes. An attachment to or yearning for an ideal, even an ideal self can also be sx - the spiritual communion with greater/higher energy. Whereas actual sex, the physical communion can easily be sp - as it is satisfying the urges of the physical body, or even so - in the forming a bond with one another. The body physical - sp, the body's energy/frequency - sx, the body collective - so. imo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Olimpia View Post
    "New Age" (spirituality) people are mostly IEI, ESI, or SEE and So blindspot (particularly Sx/Sp) and 6+9 fix.
    Have fun distinguishing which is which.

    Astrology affects and is loved by a similar crowd. Just add some Beta STs and INTx individuals to the mix.

    Least likely type to believe in any of this: LSE Sp/So.
    Also ESE are very into that new age stuff.

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    here is one: if sisofnight types something, certainly she will never change her mind.
    CETERUM AUTEM CENSEO WASHINGTON D.C. ESSE DELENDAM

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    Quote Originally Posted by Olimpia View Post

    Astrology affects and is loved by a similar crowd. Just add some Beta STs and INTx individuals to the mix.
    on a more serious note, astrology affects everyone, those who love it are those who understand this. it can involve all the functions, i personally got into it because of empiricism lol, because all my buddies were of the same sign, it worked for me, and i could see it working outside of me. quite Te eh?

    I was so glad from the last recent discoveries in sciences because they say the same thing, they confirm these differences... is this still Ni now?

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    Quote Originally Posted by totalize View Post
    here is one: if sisofnight types something, certainly she will never change her mind.
    When I type with certainty, then yeah. When I don't settle on a type or I am unsure about a typing, then I surely can change my mind. I tend to change my mind more when it comes to Enneagram and Ni leads, especially ILIs, because I do not have a lot of experience with those types irl.
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    am I taking crazy pills or is that not saying anything at all. the definition of certainty is not susceptible to changing mind, and the definition of unsettled is the possibility of changing

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    Quote Originally Posted by Olimpia View Post
    When I type with certainty, then yeah. When I don't settle on a type or I am unsure about a typing, then I surely can change my mind. I tend to change my mind more when it comes to Enneagram and Ni leads, especially ILIs, because I do not have a lot of experience with those types irl.
    it's ok to admit you are wrong sometimes (emphasis sometimes) oli
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    Can you give us some legit typing guidelines for food. All I've got so far is chicken pot pies = Ne.

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    Quote Originally Posted by uniden View Post
    Can you give us some legit typing guidelines for food. All I've got so far is chicken pot pies = Ne.
    steak = Se
    potatoes = Te
    chocolate cake = Fe
    vanilla ice cream = Fi
    waffles = Ti
    syrup = Si


    and Ni escaped before it could be turned into a food and eaten.

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    Typing the DS function of yourself almost always leads to mistypings and should be avoided.

    Your "real" DS is truly unconscious. You won't know you are "seeking" it when you are typing yourself. That is why you have to type your Ego functions. You are the most aware of those!

    When you just try to pick whichever IE you like the most besides what you think is your Lead... There can be so much bias stemming from your Imago and certain gender related preferences. Aka you likely will end up typing yourself with a Seeking IE that your Imago has, or that is generally attractive in the sex you are into, so...

    Don't try to type your Seeking function. Type your Ego.
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    The Lead function can actually be to some extent "unconscious" because it is so much of who you are; it is the way you see the world, the way you live it, everything. It is the lens through which you see the world. In that manner, it is actually somewhat "unconscious". It is like looking through a window and not realizing you are looking through a window. But the window's borders clearly limit your viewpoint.

    And that's why many people actually end up mistyping their first function, and confuse their Mobilizing for it; for the Mobilizing is what you want to improve upon, so it is more in your conscious focus, actually; even though the theory says it is an unconscious function – I see many people mistyping themselves as their Mobilizing, especially Inert subtype individuals. And Contact subtype individuals often mistype their Creative as their Lead.
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    People may tell you who they are, but who they really are will be revealed through their actions.

    This principle applies to typing, too. Someone can tell you how they are like XYZ type, but their real type is revealed by how they naturally and unconsciously act.

    Beware of those who try to fit into the mould of some type. Those are the most deceiving cases.
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    Quote Originally Posted by uniden View Post
    Can you give us some legit typing guidelines for food. All I've got so far is chicken pot pies = Ne.
    Food is , duh.

    P.S.: No, food is actually part of the SP instinct. And no, SP is not the same as Si. Though there are definitely some correlations.
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    It's like you readily admit that this whole thing is without any facts or evidence and is kind of pointless... so what do you think the point of this whole thing is?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Olimpia View Post
    Try to forget everything you've ever known about MBTI when you study Model A.

    But then later, don't make the mistake and think that the types are totally different from one another.
    I agree with the first part.

    Quote Originally Posted by WinnieW View Post
    Does being emotional sensitve imply that is one of my weaker or stronger functions?
    stronger

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    There is no Socionics except Jung and Augustinavichiute's texts. All other are corrupted and unholly!

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    Aushra was Jesus of Jungian typology.
    MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
    Winning is for losers

     

    Sincerely yours,
    idiosyncratic type
    Life is a joke but do you have a life?

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  37. #157
    squark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    There is no Socionics except Jung and Augustinavichiute's texts. All other are corrupted and unholly!
    lol. So, what about those instances when the great and mighty prophet Augusta writes about such heresies as Reinin's traits? =P Such as in her work, The Theory of Reinin's Traits, published in 1985. . .

    such dilemmas such dilemmas, what's a proselyte to do? heheheh

  38. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    So, what about those instances when the great and mighty prophet Augusta writes about such heresies as Reinin's traits?
    That was a moment of soul weakness when the prophet Augustinavichiute was possessed by unholly demon Reinin. But she fought anyway, as have left a hint in her text (like "it's all raw hypothetic bs, dudes") in the try to deceive the demon. Unfortunally, being possessed even one time, means to stay corrupted forever, so any her texts starting from that moment (and mb previous partly) should not be taken as the blessed ones. All such late texts should be kept in the library of apocryphal writings (underground! with a lot of candles, pentagrams, etc funny stuff) and only people having the most of Faith should be allowed to read them, being able to resist demonic words there.

    > such dilemmas such dilemmas, what's a proselyte to do? heheheh

    To live in true Faith. Sturdy ignoring all seductions of Reinin and his damned worshippers. Same deal with all absurd and contradictions in holly texts, - as it's not absurd but the Truth which your mind still can't to get correctly! (some reported a weed helped) - so just forget that until future enlightenments. That's the only way of proselytes to the Truth of holly duality.

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    Olimpia's Avatar
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    Being high makes people superficially more like Type 9 (relaxed state) or at the worst like a phobic Type 6 (anxious state).

    Anti-depressants seem to also induce a "Type 9-like narcotic effect", whereby the individual experiences a "mellowing down" of all emotions – the bad and the good. ;p

    So if you or someone else is high a lot and/or on anti depressants, you likely could (mis)type yourself or that someone else as Type 9 core without necessarily being so.
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  40. #160
    it's ok, everything will be fine totalize's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olimpia View Post
    Being high makes people superficially more like Type 9 (relaxed state) or at the worst like a phobic Type 6 (anxious state)
    have u tried?
    CETERUM AUTEM CENSEO WASHINGTON D.C. ESSE DELENDAM

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