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Thread: How to get an ESI/ISFj to talk about "what is wrong"?

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    Default How to get an ESI/ISFj to talk about "what is wrong"?

    When an ESI is hurt for some reason, from anyone, they distance themselves. That's just their way of keeping themselves safe and letting the other person know there is something wrong. To LIE this is naturally an alert sign. Sometimes they declare what is wrong while they are distancing themselves, but in this period there is nothing you can do to fix the situation. They also hold grudges and don't forget people's mistakes for a long time. If there has been a conflict, even if they have said hurtful things, they won't approach for reconciliation, they wait for someone to try to figure out what is wrong. and even when the other person approaches they still ignore. However LIE is unable to tolerate a grumpy mute human being in their territory, since it makes us feel bad and we can't be efficient. Therefor LIE would constantly try to "melt the iceberg" in between, due to inability to stay mad at a person for a long time. In this situation, what is to be done? When someone suddenly becomes so distant, and is unwilling to immediately solve the problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    When an ESI is hurt for some reason, from anyone, they distance themselves.
    mb: ESI + Enneagram 9 type
    average ESI after distancing at 1st to allow everybody to calm, then will explain how to don't hurt them to support relations good. "Nine" is ready to tell how to deal with others in details, but when you hurt them selves, - they'll firstly warn you they don't like and don't want that, and if nothing changes - just distance from you. If they are still interested in you, they may forgive you after time to offer to restore relations.

    > If there has been a conflict, even if they have said hurtful things, they won't approach for reconciliation, they wait for someone to try to figure out what is wrong.

    "Nine" need to restore good state of mind in relations with you and only then they'll become more self-critical.

    > and even when the other person approaches they still ignore. However LIE is unable to tolerate a grumpy mute human being in their territory, since it makes us feel bad and we can't be efficient.

    Think about "Nine" as children. Play with them, relax them, give them some joy to return trust to you and then _softly_ try to notice about issues you'd want to fix.

    > Therefor LIE would constantly try to "melt the iceberg" in between, due to inability to stay mad at a person for a long time.

    yep. 3 days and you forgive anything

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    Depends, I personally would suggest to just find another person unless the other person was truly hard to replace. My 1D 2 cents.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    I don't do this but w/ people who do I find that trying to push them to talk causes a blow up so I try to put it out of my mind and periodically say something trivial or humorous to them to test the waters and let them know it's safe for them whenever they come around.

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    ESIs will generally share any concerns about an issue they have with me. Like most introverts, ESIs are often shy in a mixed group. Nonetheless they can be quite candid if you talk to them alone. So provided you grant an ESI some privacy, communication should not be too difficult. If you feel you have hurt them, it is best to deal with the issue head on. Conversely, if they have hurt you, if you feel the relationship is worth preserving you will have to initiate.

    I can't think of any significant conflicts that I've had with this type offline. We tend to have the same priorities and worldview, even if our interests and energy levels are quite different. I admire strength and sometimes I find ESIs a bit too passive and submissive, the women especially. But we usually have mutual respect.

    (The internet seems to bring out the worst in people.)

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    There's an ESI I said some hurtful things to. After 9 years, she still won't talk to me. If you find out how to solve this, let me know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lavos View Post
    There's an ESI I said some hurtful things to. After 9 years, she still won't talk to me. If you find out how to solve this, let me know.
    If she can go nine years, she can go eighteen. I'd find another ESI. If you want to make amends to clear your conscience, send her a box of chocolates along with a note of apology. Don't expect an acknowledgement or a response to this. She's put you firmly in the "I hate you" category.

    I'm only a 1D Fi, but I still hate some people from high school. That's never gonna change. It's who I am.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    If she can go nine years, she can go eighteen. I'd find another ESI. If you want to make amends to clear your conscience, send her a box of chocolates along with a note of apology. Don't expect an acknowledgement or a response to this. She's put you firmly in the "I hate you" category.

    I'm only a 1D Fi, but I still hate some people from high school. That's never gonna change. It's who I am.
    No problem, I was fully aware of what I was doing when I did it, and I would do it again. She deserved it for being a disloyal shallow cheater. She also needed somebody to tell her all the truths she didn't have the guts to face, so I "sacrified" myself in this role.

    I very rarely hate people, but when I hate someone, I hate them with all my being.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lavos View Post
    She also needed somebody to tell her all the truths she didn't have the guts to face, so I "sacrified" myself in this role.
    Fwiw I remember people who have done this w private gratefulness even if I don't want to concede anything or talk to them again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    Fwiw I remember people who have done this w private gratefulness even if I don't want to concede anything or talk to them again.
    Thanks.

    The thing is that it still bothers me a bit even though I was not the one being cheated on. I find myself alone this day and sometimes wonder how things would have turned out for us had I acted differently.

    Note: I am not saying by any stretch that all ESI's are cheaters. Just this one in particular seemed to be.

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    Just my personal experience so take it with a grain of salt, but I'd much rather address things head on and directly. What you describe sounds a bit manipulative honestly.

    Whether it's a matter of her/him having a skewed perspective of what transpired or just stubbornness is difficult to tell, hence the solution is not immediately obvious - do you know if it was the first or the second?

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    Sometimes people just need space, but yeah it can be manipulative. For example if they fall back on this withdrawal maneuver every time you even politely express discontent w/ their behavior I'd think somethings up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuivienen View Post
    The internet seems to bring out the worst in people.
    There is no nonverbal, so it's harder to control the communication. Also the distance, no significant dependency between net "friends", the ease to find similar ones - this makes relations lesser valued.
    It's all ok to just discuss something, but romance is other story.

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    Don't try unless it's a safety concern. Barring other psychological quirks, Ij-types like to retreat to isolated islands in their minds in order to sort things out and they'll resent any type of invasion before they've come to their own conclusions. They cannot be dragged off their islands; they have to willingly leave. Ej-types seem to prefer engagement and immediate resolutions, and will try to force communication but this can irritate Ij-types that prefer to engage only when they're ready. Ij-types will readily discuss issues that have no impact on them but those that do usually require independent reflection.....
    a.k.a. I/O

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    Quote Originally Posted by Delilah View Post
    Whether it's a matter of her/him having a skewed perspective of what transpired or just stubbornness is difficult to tell, hence the solution is not immediately obvious - do you know if it was the first or the second?
    I think it is both, but the skewed perspective could be solved to a good amount if the person is not stubborn and cooperates. Maybe not cooperating means they still need time or something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuivienen View Post
    ESIs will generally share any concerns about an issue they have with me. Like most introverts, ESIs are often shy in a mixed group. Nonetheless they can be quite candid if you talk to them alone. So provided you grant an ESI some privacy, communication should not be too difficult. If you feel you have hurt them, it is best to deal with the issue head on. Conversely, if they have hurt you, if you feel the relationship is worth preserving you will have to initiate.

    I can't think of any significant conflicts that I've had with this type offline. We tend to have the same priorities and worldview, even if our interests and energy levels are quite different. I admire strength and sometimes I find ESIs a bit too passive and submissive, the women especially. But we usually have mutual respect.

    (The internet seems to bring out the worst in people.)
    I think you make it sound way too easy.

    Many, many times LIEs and ESIs will have different priorities. First of all everyone in gamma is usually out for himself in terms of professional goals and that's hard to recocile with the will for an harmonious family life.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    Don't try unless it's a safety concern. Barring other psychological quirks, Ij-types like to retreat to isolated islands in their minds in order to sort things out and they'll resent any type of invasion before they've come to their own conclusions. They cannot be dragged off their islands; they have to willingly leave. Ej-types seem to prefer engagement and immediate resolutions, and will try to force communication but this can irritate Ij-types that prefer to engage only when they're ready. Ij-types will readily discuss issues that have no impact on them but those that do usually require independent reflection.....
    a.k.a. I/O
    I agree but IJs can lose sight of some important external considerations when dealing with reality the way you describe.
    I understand it's the preferred and thus automatic fashion to deal with issues. I have however observed IJs regretting decisions they have made with insufficient external output.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    When an ESI is hurt for some reason, from anyone, they distance themselves. That's just their way of keeping themselves safe and letting the other person know there is something wrong. To LIE this is naturally an alert sign. Sometimes they declare what is wrong while they are distancing themselves, but in this period there is nothing you can do to fix the situation. They also hold grudges and don't forget people's mistakes for a long time. If there has been a conflict, even if they have said hurtful things, they won't approach for reconciliation, they wait for someone to try to figure out what is wrong. and even when the other person approaches they still ignore. However LIE is unable to tolerate a grumpy mute human being in their territory, since it makes us feel bad and we can't be efficient. Therefor LIE would constantly try to "melt the iceberg" in between, due to inability to stay mad at a person for a long time. In this situation, what is to be done? When someone suddenly becomes so distant, and is unwilling to immediately solve the problem.


    what is wrong. baby dont hurt me. dont hurt me. no more

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    ........IJs can lose sight........IJs regretting decisions........
    This is a key weakness of Ij-processing; it shuts down input in order to rationalize unlike Ejs but the amount of resources Ij-types can apply to pure rationalization far outstrips all other types. It's far better for the Ij to have gathered all relevant information before analysis starts so as to lessen the possibility for bad decisions, and most mature, intelligent Ijs have the patience to do so. However, many situations arise where there's incomplete data and errors will be made.......

    a.k.a. I/O

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    From what I've observed, the Fi subtype of ESI is much more likely to engage in the behavior described in the OP.

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    Have you considered asking: "What is wrong?"

    If the person says nothing, then let them be. If they feel up to telling you, they will tell you. Do not force them to give you the answer, as you can't. You can try to find out in other ways, but I would only do so if this is important to their wellbeing, as invading their privacy is not cool.

    Getting an answer really has to do with giving the person the feeling that they are in a safe place. If they feel they are safe, they will likely come out with the issue. Unconditional positive approval helps create this safe place. This isn't to say there shouldn't be your own boundaries on what is okay and not okay, but that is another topic for another day.

    Also, I didn't tailor it for the ESI, this is just in general. I will say a known trait of introverts is to go into a private zone, so the privacy aspect is important.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrenology

    An optimist - does not get discouraged under any circumstances. Life upheavals and stressful events only toughen him and make more confident. He likes to laugh and entertain people. Enters contact with someone by involving him with a humorous remark. His humor is often sly and contain hints and double meanings. Easily enters into arguments and bets, especially if he is challenged. When arguing his points is often ironic, ridicules the views of his opponent. His irritability and hot temper may be unpleasant to others. However, he himself is not perceptive of this and believes that he is simply exchanging opinions.

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