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Thread: Hotelambush Questionnaire (Karatos)

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    Default Hotelambush Questionnaire (Karatos)

    Tell me about yourself.
    This question's pretty open ended. I'm a guy. I tend to rebel against expectations placed on me, but I've been more restrained about that as I've gotten older. I come from a fairly well off background. I'm in my late 20s.
    What do you study or do for a living? How did you come to do that? What do you like or dislike about it?
    I study cybersecurity and make some money writing and doing random jobs on the side. I like cybersecurity because it involves breaking systems, developing solutions, and ensuring privacy for end-users. I like to think strategically about it from both offensive and defensive points of view. For example, it's fun to map out different vulnerabilities in computer systems and demonstrate how they can be exploited. Furthermore, I like formulating the most effective solutions to prevent attacks. What I dislike about it is that it requires an extensive breadth of knowledge and it evolves at a pace that's hard for even experts to keep up with. Fortunately, the pros outweigh the cons for me.
    What are your values, and why?
    I value justice, liberty, persistence, and ingenuity. I think people should have a fair shot at life and they should look after their own. Grit helps people overcome challenges and ingenuity grants them efficiency when solving problems. I also have a slight feeling that information should be free and I love exposing falsehoods and duplicity.
    What else do you do on a daily basis? What are your interests and hobbies? Why do you do them?
    I learn about computer systems and play cards. I like honing my skills, developing mastery, competing with others, and thinking systematically about the best way to accomplish my goals. Additionally, I like to exercise, listen to podcasts, and watch a few shows. I spend more time relaxing than I should, but it's a work in progress.
    Describe your relations with family and friends. What do you like and dislike about them?
    My relations with my family are kind of strained because we have different views on life, but it's friendly. In my friendships, I try to be someone people can depend on. I like playing with people and pursuing my hobbies with them. I dislike that expending too much energy on them leaves me drained. My family can be too overbearing as well. Since I'm an only child, my folks have always tried to maintain a disproportionate amount of control over me since I'm all they have. So one of my challenges in life has been to set reasonable, healthy boundaries with them.
    What do you look for in friends? In romantic relationships?
    In friends, I enjoy intelligence, playfulness, and compassion. At a bare minimum, I like having shared interests with my friends. In romantic relationships, I look for likemindedness and attractiveness. I like having a more extroverted partner who enjoys dealing with people more than I do. I also enjoy having a partner with a decent amount of openness and a "woman's intuition."
    What conflicts have you encountered recently with other people? Why did they happen? Which kinds seem to happen on a regular basis?
    I tend to conflict with people when they're being abusive or bullying. I want the offense to stop. I also tend to conflict with people when they violate my boundaries. Most of my conflicts happen when someone tries to exercise some entitled sense of authority over me or when someone tries to push a story that doesn't add up.
    How would your friends describe you?
    Smart, messy, introverted, goofy, abrasive, complex.
    What do people generally see as your strengths? What do you like about yourself?
    People have called me intelligent, analytical, knowledgeable, creative, and kind. They have also said I have integrity and that I speak up when nobody else does.
    What are your weaknesses? What criticism do you often face from others? What do you dislike about yourself?
    I think I'm too sensitive, but it's debatable whether I really am or not. I've also been told that I don't work hard enough and that I'm not empathetic enough. Sometimes I take things too much at face value and fail to recognize whether someone's being serious or not.
    In what areas of life can you manage well on your own? In what areas of your life would you like help?
    I pursue my own interests pretty well. I investigate what I need to know to gain competence. I think would like help in long term planning and social competence. Dealing with people isn't my strong suit. For example, school comes easily and I always find a way to make the grades I need, but when it comes to job interviews and unstable people, I often fail to "make the right moves."
    What things do you find to be a chore? What things do you enjoy more than others?
    Dealing with people is a chore. They're unpredictable. I've had social anxiety as far back as I can tell. Some basic shit like making sure everything is spick and span is a chore both literally and figuratively. But I would say that employing the correct social graces takes the cake.
    What goals, aspirations, or plans do you have for the future? How did you come to have them?
    I plan to become an expert in my field, become a security architect, have a family, travel abroad, and retire. I always wanted to have a family and retire, but I developed a taste for traveling after doing so in my country. I also developed a plan for becoming an expert in my field after realizing my passion for it.
    If you had enough money to live comfortably for the rest of your life without working, what would you do with your time?
    Study, travel, try to make a positive impact on the world. Become Batman. I think I would like to work anyway because it gives you a decent reason to get up in the morning.
    What traits do you find endearing that others might dislike? What traits are considered positive/neutral by others but tend to annoy you?
    I like goofiness and some anger. Strangeness. Traits that annoy me but don't annoy others include naivety, carelessness, inconsiderate behavior, and stupidity.
    What kinds of things do you do to manage and/or beautify your environment (your room, your house, etc.)? What do you think of daily chores?
    I have posters and hobby-related things on my walls. I like to collect things to show where I've been and what I've done. Daily chores are annoying but necessary.
    How do you behave around strangers?
    I'm polite but I'm not talkative whatsoever. I tend to be kind of roundabout in how I get what I want in foreign environments, and I like to put a smile on peoples' faces if I can.
    How do you react to conflict? What do you do if somebody insults or attacks you?
    It depends. If I'm focused on something else, I'll ignore it. But sometimes I get in the mode of "evening the scoreboard." So, for instance, on a good day, if someone is being a sarcastic asshole, I'll be sarcastic back. With strangers, I'm more prone to just being shocked by dickish behavior. But with people I know, I will throw my own insults back or make a twisted variation of what they said to make an insulting implication.
    What is one common misconception that people have? Explain why it is wrong.
    Life isn't fair. There is no overarching force that balances out injustices and gives you everything you want. You have to work for what you want, and even then, there are no guarantees.
    What did you do last Friday?
    I played cards with my friends.
    If you are doing a video you can stop here or choose from the rest of the questions as you like.
    If you are answering in writing, please answer ALL questions.

    What is your biggest accomplishment?
    I recently gained a certificate in cybersecurity without really having knowing much about it prior to entering the program.
    What is something you regret?
    Having lied to people who are important to me.
    Who do you admire, and why?
    I tend to admire people who have vision. Like Abraham Lincoln or Steve Jobs.
    What's been on your mind? Has anything been worrying or concerning you? What problems have you encountered lately?
    My relationships and ambitions. I'm trying to maintain focus and avoid letting life's challenges throw me into a slump.
    What are your religious or spiritual beliefs and why do you hold them?
    I'm an atheist. I'm spiritual in a way that overlaps with Buddhism in some sense, but I'm by no means religions or theist. I generally don't believe in things that aren't logical or that can't be observed.
    What are your political beliefs, and why? To what extent do you care about politics?
    I sometimes think to myself that I have the head of a libertarian and the heart of a liberal. So I'm on the left. I care about politics deeply. They often run in circles, but it's important to pay attention to the directions nations go. Pet issues include separation of church and state along with climate change.
    Would you ever be interested in starting a business? Why or why not? What role would you play in it? What kind of business would it be?
    Yes. I would be a business owner or manager. It would be fun to have a project like this and rake in revenue. It would be a restaurant, a cloud provider, or a cybersecurity firm.
    What kind of work environment do you prefer? What do you look for in a job?
    I prefer a work environment with a logical, responsible mission statement. I like to have the freedom and flexibility to do my own thing, so long as I fulfil service level agreements and contracts.
    What is or was your favorite school subject and why?
    I like learning about computers. Complex systems give me quite a bit to think about and I enjoy applying their principles to other aspects of my life. I also like English for the creative aspects.
    How do you approach responsibility? What do you tend to expect of others?
    I think people should pay their debts and exercise self accountability. I don't really care much for enforcing that with people, but I just won't deal with people who lack self awareness or a personal sense of accountability.
    Where did you go on your most recent vacation? What did you do there? How did you like it and why?
    My most recent vacation was in Las Vegas. I saw some sights like the hotels, casinos, and a few attractions. I ate good food. I enjoyed it and thought it was a city for me because people there have a great deal of freedom to enjoy.
    What were you like as a kid? How have you changed since you were a child?
    Kind of introverted, lost in thought, but mischievous. My beliefs have changed and I've grown, but core traits have largely remained. I've learned to be more understanding of people that aren't like me. I've become more open to new experiences and I've developed a higher level of empathy. In young adulthood, I started to really recognize the consequences of my actions and I gained skills to help regulate negative emotions.
    What was your high school experience like?
    It was kind of a nightmare but I did what I could to make the most of it. Unusual because I had health problems, but making friends made the process better. I found ways to fit in with people but I also felt like an outsider somehow.
    Talk about a significant event from your life.
    A few years ago, an ex of mine sat me down and really told me what I needed to do to be successful in life. She encouraged me to own up to who I really was. It was a hard pill to swallow, but I'm grateful it happened. It led to how I cultivated my passion for cybersecurity.
    Do you like kids? Why or why not?
    They're ok. They tend to be surprisingly smart and honest. They can be a handful, but I think they're usually amusing.
    If you were to raise a child, what would be your main concerns, what measures would you take, and why?
    My main concerns would be that this world is too harsh for them. I wouldn't want them to hate me, either. I would lead them by example and give them the tools necessary to achieve their goals. I would teach fiscal responsibility and simulate an environment like they would experience in the real world. Give them choices and room to develop their own belief systems.
    Ever feel stuck in a rut? If yes, describe the causes and your reaction to it.
    Yes. I get stuck in a rut when there are too many potential outcomes and I fail to synthesize the information. For instance, it was immobilizing when I was trying to figure out where to go to college because there were so many possibilities but I had little hands on information to go off of. Sometimes when people try to exert too much control over my decisions, I slow down as well. I just start to drift and fuck around.
    How do you see other people as a whole? What do you consider a prevalent social problem? Name one.
    Kind of an emotional, irrational mass. A hive that follows its random whims. Social problem: ignorance.
    What do you do if you're not getting what you want? What approach do you use?
    I retreat in my mind and think of different tactics I could use. Take a deep breath, relax, and observe possible opportunities I could use to get where I'm going. In situations where I understand the processes that yield the results I want, I'll be patient and wait it out. So, let's say I'm not getting the grade I want in a class... I'll discuss the possibility of extra credit with my instructor. If that doesn't fly, I'll allocate more time to studying and do the rough math for what grades I need to make to raise the overall average. Rearrange my schedule. But if I want something from someone in particular in the context of a relationship, I find that patience has a greater chance of working because it gives the person room to make their own decision.
    Are you comfortable taking leadership roles? In what areas? Why or why not?
    Sure. I like leading from the front lines. I don't have much experience with leadership, but I often feel that if I don't act first then nobody will.
    How often do you get angry? What kinds of things make you angry?
    I feel anger almost daily but I do my best to process it in a healthy way. Things that anger me: Contradictions. Injustice.
    What is the best thing that happened to you during the past week?
    I got a couple of girls' phone numbers.
    What is the worst thing that happened to you during the past week?
    I lost someone special to me and now I'm getting back on track.
    What is the purpose of life? What do you find personally meaningful in life?
    There is no universal purpose. However, I think it's important to overcome your limitations, grow, and give the middle finger to the relentless hostility of the world.
    What is the most interesting place you have been, and why?
    New York. People there have learned to function as an efficient machine.
    How do you dress or manage your appearance?
    I'm pretty casual. I dress for the occasion. I have kind of a geeky/edgy appearance. I wear nerdy t shirts and jeans most of the time, reverting to leather jackets in the winter.
    Do you like surprises?
    Yes.
    Is there anything else important about you that we should know?
    I prefer my eggs fried and my steak cooked medium rare. My favorite color is blue-green.

    Last edited by Desert Financial; 10-29-2017 at 09:58 PM. Reason: Fleshed some things out.

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    At first I thought ILI, but going through the questionnaire in depth made me change my mind into ILE. ILE, probably Ti subtype, you're not really hyper extroverted, but I see Ne rather than Ni.


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    Please fill out the questionnaire in full as posted here, and post your answers here (not in the linked thread).

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    Please fill out the questionnaire in full as posted here, and post your answers here (not in the linked thread).
    Did I miss something? Those are the questions I answered.

    Quote Originally Posted by Owl View Post
    At first I thought ILI, but going through the questionnaire in depth made me change my mind into ILE. ILE, probably Ti subtype, you're not really hyper extroverted, but I see Ne rather than Ni.
    I most often score as ILE on a variety of tests. A couple that measure the Reinin dichotomies and other Socionics traits had me at ILE. Almost always score as a Ti valuing type of some kind.

    However, my self-typing (LSI) is based on a few facts. The best relationship I've been in was with an IEI (beta). She energized me. Furthermore, my intuition took a while to become even remotely pronounced. Growing up, I lacked a vision for what I wanted to do with myself. Moreover, I primarily gain energy from reflecting on my own. I don't need much, and I spend most of my time with something external, but having alone time gives me a good push.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Karatos View Post
    Did I miss something? Those are the questions I answered.
    Sorry, you're right. I thought you were using the form (which doesn't include all the questions yet).

    Still, your answers are awfully terse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    Sorry, you're right. I thought you were using the form (which doesn't include all the questions yet).

    Still, your answers are awfully terse.
    I'll flesh it out more when I have the time. Thanks for the input.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Karatos View Post
    Did I miss something? Those are the questions I answered.



    I most often score as ILE on a variety of tests. A couple that measure the Reinin dichotomies and other Socionics traits had me at ILE. Almost always score as a Ti valuing type of some kind.

    However, my self-typing (LSI) is based on a few facts. The best relationship I've been in was with an IEI (beta). She energized me. Furthermore, my intuition took a while to become even remotely pronounced. Growing up, I lacked a vision for what I wanted to do with myself. Moreover, I primarily gain energy from reflecting on my own. I don't need much, and I spend most of my time with something external, but having alone time gives me a good push.
    I wonder what's your argument on Ne vs. Se. Se is forceful and power seeking function, it's extremelly assertive and it vibrants dominance and strenght. I didn't see that in your questionnaire. Rather I saw an intrest in abstract concepts such as computre science, inquisitive nature, open mindedness and high awareness of forthcoming possibilities, which for example you expressed in the answer about the college. You said it can be difficult for you too choose when you see too many possibilities and they all seem good to some point. That's a common issue among Ne ego types. I would not say you're an Ne-polr at least.

    When it comes to relationships, I wouldn't pay that much attention to it. It depends on your own personal background, expectations, level of your psychological health and plsychological health of your partner. If you choose unhealthy dual, the relationship will be terrible just like any other with an unhealthy person. I for example had a terrible relationship with a very unhealthy SLE and a decent maybe even good relationship with an LII.


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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    Still, your answers are awfully terse.
    I just beefed it up a bit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Owl View Post
    I wonder what's your argument on Ne vs. Se. Se is forceful and power seeking function, it's extremelly assertive and it vibrants dominance and strenght. I didn't see that in your questionnaire. Rather I saw an intrest in abstract concepts such as computre science, inquisitive nature, open mindedness and high awareness of forthcoming possibilities, which for example you expressed in the answer about the college. You said it can be difficult for you too choose when you see too many possibilities and they all seem good to some point. That's a common issue among Ne ego types. I would not say you're an Ne-polr at least.

    When it comes to relationships, I wouldn't pay that much attention to it. It depends on your own personal background, expectations, level of your psychological health and plsychological health of your partner. If you choose unhealthy dual, the relationship will be terrible just like any other with an unhealthy person. I for example had a terrible relationship with a very unhealthy SLE and a decent maybe even good relationship with an LII.
    My argument re: Ne vs. Se is that I tend to perceive objects more concretely. I'm pretty notorious, in fact, for not grasping more abstract contexts and social cues. If someone makes passive aggressive attempts to rile me up, I may not even know that they're doing it. Often, I'll start overanalyzing the event without intuitively picking up on the intended meaning.

    On the other hand, I enjoy seeking challenges, taking risks, and finding new sensory experiences to suss out. For instance, I enjoy trying different kinds of food and searching for the best product with the most intense flavor.

    Here's a video of me from 4 years ago:


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    Quote Originally Posted by Karatos View Post
    Here's a video of me from 4 years ago
    it needs to fit the recommendations

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    it needs to fit the recommendations
    I'll make a VI video sometime this week.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kakarot View Post
    Complex systems give me quite a bit to think about and I enjoy applying their principles to other aspects of my life.
    An example of this please?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    An example of this please?
    For example, I like to think about the principles of cybersecurity and how to apply them with different kinds of technology. So lets say I worked for a company that suffered from a DDOS attack, I would enjoy the process of coming up with solutions to 1. remediate the attack 2. prevent future attacks from impacting the company 3. reducing the overall risk a DDOS attack would incur by implementing solutions such as using multiple servers to perform what's known as load balancing.

    So after that, I would think - ok, so certain solutions worked at my job. What if I applied them to the games I played in some way? If I were playing Magic the Gathering, I would take the concept of "load balancing" and think: how can I create redundancy, fail safes, and backup measures for my strategies? Maybe I would use what's known as an "affinity" deck, where if one creature dies, its power gets distributed to other creatures so I don't take as much of a loss when my opponent destroys my guys.

    I mean it doesn't always pan out the way I want, but at the very least it proves to me how much one system converges with another and if things need to be tweaked in the system I'm exporting an idea to. Overall, it's pretty energizing.
    Last edited by Desert Financial; 10-26-2017 at 08:24 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kakarot View Post
    For example, I like to think about the principles of cybersecurity and how to apply them with different kinds of technology. So lets say I worked for a company that suffered from a DDOS attack, I would enjoy the process of coming up with solutions to 1. remediate the attack 2. prevent future attacks from impacting the company 3. reducing the overall risk a DDOS attack would incur by implementing solutions such as using multiple servers to perform what's known as load balancing.

    So after that, I would think - ok, so certain solutions worked at my job. What if I applied them to the games I played in some way? If I were playing Magic the Gathering, I would take the concept of "load balancing" and think: how can I create redundancy, fail safes, and backup measures for my strategies? Maybe I would use what's known as an "affinity" deck, where if one creature dies, its power gets distributed to other creatures so I don't take as much of a loss when my opponent destroys my guys.

    I mean it doesn't always pan out the way I want, but at the very least it proves to me how much one system converges with another and if things need to be tweaked in the system I'm exporting an idea to. Overall, it's pretty energizing.
    OK, one more question: "I tend to be kind of roundabout in how I get what I want in foreign environments, and I like to put a smile on peoples' faces if I can" - example for this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    OK, one more question: "I tend to be kind of roundabout in how I get what I want in foreign environments, and I like to put a smile on peoples' faces if I can" - example for this?
    Well, let's say I'm at a grocery store I've never been to before and I'm entering the checkout line. I'm slightly more inclined to observe and let people go ahead of me if the circumstances fit, as opposed to rushing in. Or let's say I'm living with someone and I expect them to do some chores, I'll imply that they need to do something by telling them that something is neglected, rather than just telling them to do it. As I've gotten older, I've gotten better at directly stating what I want; things operate more smoothly that way. Given the fact that direct communication serves my purposes better and gives me more fulfilment, the default tendency to be indirect may just stem from my background. My family is pretty authoritarian. But I think you get the picture.

    Concerning my tendency to put a smile on peoples' faces: to use the grocery store as another example, I may approach the cashier and make a funny comment about some nutty shit the headlines on a magazine on the counter says. Or I may tell them they have a cool tattoo. Whatever makes the situation more relaxed.

    Here's a good example of an indirect approach I use in my communication: Let's say someone is in a risky situation. For instance, if I have a close friend who uses credit (like practically everyone does) after the Equifax breach, I'll tell them, "If you don't check with your bank to see if they use Equifax, and it turns out that they do, you'll probably have to go through the nightmare of having to restore your credit. You may have to go from bank to bank in order to clear your name." Essentially, I'll illustrate a cause-effect hypothesis to motivate them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kakarot View Post
    Well, let's say I'm at a grocery store I've never been to before and I'm entering the checkout line. I'm slightly more inclined to observe and let people go ahead of me if the circumstances fit, as opposed to rushing in. Or let's say I'm living with someone and I expect them to do some chores, I'll imply that they need to do something by telling them that something is neglected, rather than just telling them to do it. As I've gotten older, I've gotten better at directly stating what I want; things operate more smoothly that way. Given the fact that direct communication serves my purposes better and gives me more fulfilment, the default tendency to be indirect may just stem from my background. My family is pretty authoritarian. But I think you get the picture.

    Concerning my tendency to put a smile on peoples' faces: to use the grocery store as another example, I may approach the cashier and make a funny comment about some nutty shit the headlines on a magazine on the counter says. Or I may tell them they have a cool tattoo. Whatever makes the situation more relaxed.

    Here's a good example of an indirect approach I use in my communication: Let's say someone is in a risky situation. For instance, if I have a close friend who uses credit (like practically everyone does) after the Equifax breach, I'll tell them, "If you don't check with your bank to see if they use Equifax, you'll have to go through the nightmare of having to restore your credit. You may have to go from bank to bank in order to clear your name." Essentially, I'll illustrate a cause-effect hypothesis to motivate them.
    Hmm ok I was between ILI-Te and SLI-Te for you, maybe the latter with the easy-going relaxed orientation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    Hmm ok I was between ILI-Te and SLI-Te for you, maybe the latter with the easy-going relaxed orientation.
    That's a first.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kakarot View Post
    That's a first.
    If I'm wrong about Te>Ti and Fe PoLR>Fe DS then the 3rd option would be LII which also does work with the relaxedness.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    If I'm wrong about Te>Ti and Fe PoLR>Fe DS then the 3rd option would be LII which also does work with the relaxedness.
    I don't think Fe is my PoLR, though I'm open to evaluating this further with clear examples. I'm more inclined to conclude LII-Ne. Ne subtype would explain why I score higher on the reinin traits associated with ILE.

    If we were to evaluate my type using only the reinin traits, there's no way I'm ILI.

    However, at the end of the day, the core dichotomies (I/E, S/N, etc.) wind up being more salient in making this decision. So let's talk about j vs. p.

    I have some traits associated with j introverts. For example, I think more "statically" in terms of reinin traits. You may not see it overtly in my writing, but in my most relaxed state, I judge objects, events, and situations categorically. Consequently, I interpret most things in a segmented kind of way rather than a fluid kind of way. So let's say I tell you how my day was. I would tell you it "was this" or "it wasn't that", using descriptors. I would be least inclined to walk you through the process of my day and more inclined to just tell you "It was good" with little cliff-notes as to why. In the end, this kind of thinking often leads to a choppy kind of communication. It has been described as "Stop-go-stop-go."

    On the other hand, as it concerns what I have in common with p introverts - I really lacked a solid game plan for my life until I was in my mid-twenties. I mostly lacked defined goals in anything I did, so I screwed around and treated most things as a simple experiment. I really wanted to take the road less traveled, which led to an attitude where I had nothing even remotely resembling a conventional mission statement. Even after maturing, moving forward in life boils down to maintaining a vision, which becomes difficult when so much crap comes your way. And my personal vision really only surfaced in my mid-twenties, so while I think I may value , I don't think I'm ego or even creative.
    Last edited by Desert Financial; 10-27-2017 at 08:20 AM.

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    @Remiel, you've known me the longest out of anyone here. I'd be interested to hear your 2 cents.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kakarot View Post
    @Remiel, you've known me the longest out of anyone here. I'd be interested to hear your 2 cents.

    For what it's worth I've always thought of you as an ILE. Definitely strong Ne, it's usually displayed through your sense of humor and non-rigid way of reasoning. One of the major issues I see with this typing is that ILE's sometimes display an annoying stubbornness. (When they are proven wrong and realize this) This is true for most of my ILE acquaintances. I consider you more open minded in general. I think this is something you do all the time internally when decoding something you're interested with. This extends to interpersonal interaction. I think that when you're trying to grasp the how's and why's about something you do so in order to piece together the larger more complex picture and thereby see if makes sense or not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kakarot View Post
    I don't think Fe is my PoLR, though I'm open to evaluating this further with clear examples. I'm more inclined to conclude LII-Ne. Ne subtype would explain why I score higher on the reinin traits associated with ILE.
    I don't really see any kind of extraversion in you, or Fe of the extraverts either. You seem extremely even emotionally and I had an impression that you are not open to getting "infected" by the outer emotional atmosphere. These are the reasons why I thought of Fe PoLR for you. Make any sense?


    If we were to evaluate my type using only the reinin traits, there's no way I'm ILI.
    Typing by reinin traits is proven to be very unreliable, very much subject to bias.


    However, at the end of the day, the core dichotomies (I/E, S/N, etc.) wind up being more salient in making this decision. So let's talk about j vs. p.
    That's a good point, tho' they are not really about associated traits.


    I have some traits associated with j introverts. For example, I think more "statically" in terms of reinin traits. You may not see it overtly in my writing, but in my most relaxed state, I judge objects, events, and situations categorically. Consequently, I interpret most things in a segmented kind of way rather than a fluid kind of way. So let's say I tell you how my day was. I would tell you it "was this" or "it wasn't that", using descriptors. I would be least inclined to walk you through the process of my day and more inclined to just tell you "It was good" with little cliff-notes as to why. In the end, this kind of thinking often leads to a choppy kind of communication. It has been described as "Stop-go-stop-go."
    Lol I'd just say "it was ok". I don't know how much this depends on type.

    I can see you periodically doing judgments. The question is, is it really just periodical or is this the place where you really view everything from (in which case it wouldn't be periodical).


    On the other hand, as it concerns what I have in common with p introverts - I really lacked a solid game plan for my life until I was in my mid-twenties. I mostly lacked defined goals in anything I did, so I screwed around and treated most things as a simple experiment. I really wanted to take the road less traveled, which led to an attitude where I had nothing even remotely resembling a conventional mission statement. Even after maturing, moving forward in life boils down to maintaining a vision, which becomes difficult when so much crap comes your way. And my personal vision really only surfaced in my mid-twenties, so while I think I may value , I don't think I'm ego or even creative.
    Yeah it's quite Irrational, what you describe, actually this is very SLI.

    The SLI parts:

    - experimental approach
    - wanting to take the road less traveled is typical expression of Ne dual seeking
    - finding it hard to maintain the vision when crap comes your way and explicitly discussing this sounds like the conscious focus is on Si and not on Se. I mean, obviously everyone can find it hard to keep going, but the way you said it struck me as Si/Ne over Se/Ni.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    I don't really see any kind of extraversion in you, or Fe of the extraverts either. You seem extremely even emotionally and I had an impression that you are not open to getting "infected" by the outer emotional atmosphere. These are the reasons why I thought of Fe PoLR for you. Make any sense?
    That makes sense. What you're seeing in this thread is me doing my best to maintain a sense objectivity about this topic. I think the process of typing people often comes hand-in-hand with several psychological pitfalls. For instance, the Forer effect can lead people to conjure up memories which affirm a particular profile assigned to them, despite its overall inaccuracy. Alternatively, someone who's trying to type themselves can wind up coming to an inaccurate conclusion chiefly on the grounds of a feeling of emotional obligation.

    I've been described as emotional and sensitive. I'm not particularly social, but I have little problem contributing to a group setting by expressing how I feel and making an attempt to make people feel better.




    Typing by reinin traits is proven to be very unreliable, very much subject to bias.
    Ok. I didn't know that. Thank you for letting me know.




    That's a good point, tho' they are not really about associated traits.
    Associated traits like the Reinin dichotomies?




    Lol I'd just say "it was ok". I don't know how much this depends on type.

    I can see you periodically doing judgments. The question is, is it really just periodical or is this the place where you really view everything from (in which case it wouldn't be periodical).
    Good question. I've been thinking about it. Having had years of experience with MBTI and JCF, I've mostly just thought I lead with an introverted judgment function according to those definitions.

    I've never completely identified with people who lead with Ni or Si in the Jungian sense because it's as though their egos are completely subordinated by their perceptions. For example, you may often listen to an interview from an Ni ego or creative artist and they may describe their creative process as something like: "Some other force is speaking through me." I don't have a direct example of an Si heavy artist, but I imagine they express themselves in the same way, but with sensing perception.

    I'm not like that. When I'm writing or creating something, I almost always believe I am the narrator. My perceptions come second.




    Yeah it's quite Irrational, what you describe, actually this is very SLI.

    The SLI parts:

    - experimental approach
    - wanting to take the road less traveled is typical expression of Ne dual seeking
    - finding it hard to maintain the vision when crap comes your way and explicitly discussing this sounds like the conscious focus is on Si and not on Se. I mean, obviously everyone can find it hard to keep going, but the way you said it struck me as Si/Ne over Se/Ni.
    That's interesting. I decided to take a look at the main SLI profile on this site.

    Quite a bit of it fits, but not all of it.

    IMO, I'm too spacey to possess as an ego function. I'm not completely detached from my body, but my default mode is to occupy my own mind, perceiving associations, explaining events, rearranging scenarios in different ways, looking at issues from different angles, and monitoring my own biases. For this reason, I'd say that the ILI description does a better job of profiling me despite the fact that I doubt I'm an ego type.

    I also figured I'd tell you something about my dynamics with delta types. A lot of the time, I think they tend to suck the positivity out of the room. An LSE or SLI could show up and suddenly you find yourself in a NO FUN ZONE. In a way, the same often holds true for IEEs and EIIs, but instead of directly informing you about their expectations, you have to pray that you don't step on their toes or else they'll have some sort of nervous breakdown.

    It's like... in the mind of an LSE, if you so much as let out a chuckle, it must mean you're not fucking working hard enough. Lol.

    Consequently, I don't really see myself as belonging in the delta quadra because I really don't quite get the set of values all their kind of behavior is predicated on.

    So frankly, I'd rather work with Gammas. Even though they tend to take their goals rather seriously, they often give me space in the way I like and at least make an attempt to chalk things up as interesting.
    Last edited by Desert Financial; 10-28-2017 at 11:20 AM.

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    LIE tells you to get the fuck off their lawn.

    LSE tells you to take an inventory of their lawn using the last-in-first-out perpetual inventory system and audit the lawn on a quarterly basis.

    Choose your path.

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    @Myst @thehotelambush @Sol @Owl @silke @Xaiviay @Pano Lou @sbbds @Kill4Me @Aramas
    Part 2 coming out as soon as I can. Hopefully today.
    Last edited by Desert Financial; 11-10-2018 at 10:14 AM.

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    Ne type. more for P ones

    you are positive. that's good

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    read descriptions of ILE and IEE to decide wich is closer to you

    Sol thehotelambush Myst Owl
    interesting top 4

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    @darya I think you have good insight into people. What do you think?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kakarot View Post
    @darya I think you have good insight into people. What do you think?
    Thank you : ) very Ne/Si and logical. I agree with @Myst that you seem Te valuing and not necesarilly extroverted, but I'm not sure about those. I would consider LII-Ne and SLI first. Fi polr and Ne dominance for ILE doesn't work imo.

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    I'm not sure what type you are, but I really liked your videos Kakarot

    I could see all sorts of types, you seem slightly extroverted by temperament, but I know how that can be misleading, since no one makes a video only to not "put anything out"

    I can see Ne because you do seem to be more imaginative and more of a "why?" or even "why not?" kind of thinker, in other words, not fixated on this is how it is and must be.

    Your voice is pleasant which I think of as Si. Pleasant is subjective though so its hard to get an objective handle on. I find ESE and ILI to be on opposite ends of the spectrum in that regard. I don't think you're either, because I find you somewhere in that nice middle ground.

    You do seem to favor logic over ethics, simply because you will occasionally make ethical statements but you tend not to linger on them, it reminds me of my LII friend who kind pensively throws them out to gauge reactions but its almost like hes stealing cookies or something--likes to get in and out, hesitant to get caught up in a protracted ethical discussion, almost like they don't feel like they have a right to really belabor their point of view in that regard. my friend sort of "tests the water" then and if he gets a bit of approval is very pleased and then goes back to other stuff. whereas ethical types tend to do the opposite and go on at length about the subjective ethical aspects to a topic (occasionally making some kind of logical statement--usually some pragmatic assessment--and looking for approval). I notice you do tend to keep it factual

    All in all my overall impression is alpha NT, but I could also see SLI
    Last edited by Bertrand; 10-31-2017 at 02:45 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    If I'm wrong about Te>Ti and Fe PoLR>Fe DS then the 3rd option would be LII which also does work with the relaxedness.
    Quote Originally Posted by Remiel View Post

    For what it's worth I've always thought of you as an ILE. Definitely strong Ne, it's usually displayed through your sense of humor and non-rigid way of reasoning. One of the major issues I see with this typing is that ILE's sometimes display an annoying stubbornness. (When they are proven wrong and realize this) This is true for most of my ILE acquaintances. I consider you more open minded in general. I think this is something you do all the time internally when decoding something you're interested with. This extends to interpersonal interaction. I think that when you're trying to grasp the how's and why's about something you do so in order to piece together the larger more complex picture and thereby see if makes sense or not.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    Ne type. more for P ones

    you are positive. that's good
    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    read descriptions of ILE and IEE to decide wich is closer to you

    Sol thehotelambush Myst Owl
    interesting top 4
    @darya @Bertrand

    After mulling your input around about, I think LII-Ne pans out as a fair conclusion.

    I'd still like input from @thehotelambush since he created the questionnaire and presumably understands the surrounding framework. Since he's an LII, it would be interesting to hear if my outlook resonates.

    However, I don't think SLI fits very well because I don't value or that much. I'd sooner type myself as EII than SLI.

    Furthermore, I could easily see as my PoLR, as I dislike being forced to act in the moment; being forced to focus on the object in and of itself is practically impossible in my mind.

    Moreover, I think as a role function fits because I'll be polite or what have you to get by in day-to-day social obligations, but it doesn't actually give me fulfilment like a valued function presumably would.

    And you're welcome @darya. I remember you predicting that that girl with the type me video would only be a visitor on this site. You were right. Obviously, you have a strong ability to predict human behavior. I admire that.

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    @Bertrand thank you.

    As an EII, what's it like having as a role function?

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    I've thought about this a lot actually

    when I read something as Fi I think of it as it being an ethical statement "proposing/condoning a course of action"-- in other words, I think of it being an inherently should statement. That the person manifested that language on the basis of their whole person (and whatever they're saying stands for so much more than the literal words--it often implicates a policy, or an attitude towards something). This means that you can read between the lines a little, because the language is just a symptom for their overall ethical stance which is deeper than any sentence or treatise can capture, this means to understand the person you have to infer all the colors and meaning--because you don't lose sight that it originated in a flesh and blood person.

    but then I got in a lot of trouble on the LSAT with this because it would lead to me picking wrong choices a lot, and I realized you have to read sentences in terms of their pure logical structure and literal semantic content which means reading sentences carefully to exclude, not include meaning. in other words, if a sentence, according to Ti, allows for the possibility of something to not be implicated, i.e.: if its not explicitly and conclusively determined to be a conclusion validly implied by the rules of logic, then you have to assume they did not intend you to draw that conclusion. I used to always tell myself "what would the conclusion be if a typewriter said this?" it was always the typewriter, I had to divorce humanity from it. it became sort of a game

    the role function is something I think you can turn on and off

    so like I just switch on Ti mode when I read something that doesn't sound right at first glance, and then ask myself maybe I'm dealing with a Ti/Fe axis type and shouldn't rush to judge... the thing is I'm still pretty rigid with it and tend to err on the side of caution. I don't read Ti mode to implicate deep logical conclusions, I basically use Ti mode to determine what can and cannot be logically inferred at face value, in other words, I'm not trying to create a vast structure of Ti meaning at the same time. Just using it as a kind of error scanner and jump-to-conclusions-precluder


    I don't actually use Fi with words a lot at all actually. If anything Fi + words tend to be more of a Te analysis by its very nature. But I think of Te/Fi as being kind of the same thing. Fi actually transcends language hardcore and its more like I feel like I just "sit" in it and everything is filtered through it. To engage Fi in language directly is actually really hard and usually unsatisfying. The main thing is shutting it off when you have to, otherwise it feels like its on by default

    when I write I usually have a point I want to get across, so even Fi intent manifests itself in some kind of Te gesture. the exception is purely abstract or metaphorical language; like sometimes I'll talk about love or whatever and its Fi, but if I look at it with Ti mode on, it makes no fucking sense. In any case its a shadow of the feeling. Its the mark the feeling leaves and Te traces onto a digital page

    Fi actually goes really deep underground because I feel like it gets punished a lot, I was watching those Karl Ove videos and he was talking about how it was basically blasphemous that he wrote his books. I've told people I don't like my own parents or stuff to that effect and they look at me like I just ate a cat, and yet its like this is precisely my reality, my world... its like if you're not allowed to feel that way you might as well not be allowed to exist
    Last edited by Bertrand; 11-01-2017 at 04:07 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bertrand View Post
    I've thought about this a lot actually

    when I read something as Fi I think of it as it being an ethical statement "proposing/condoning a course of action"-- in other words, I think of it being an inherently should statement. That the person manifested that language on the basis of their whole person (and whatever they're saying stands for so much more than the literal words--it often implicates a policy, or an attitude towards something). This means that you can read between the lines a little, because the language is just a symptom for their overall ethical stance which is deeper than any sentence or treatise can capture, this means to understand the person you have to infer all the colors and meaning--because you don't lose sight that it originated in a flesh and blood person.

    but then I got in a lot of trouble on the LSAT with this because it would lead to me picking wrong choices a lot, and I realized you have to read sentences in terms of their pure logical structure and literal semantic content which means reading sentences carefully to exclude, not include meaning. in other words, if a sentence, according to Ti, allows for the possibility of something to not be implicated, i.e.: if its not explicitly and conclusively determined to be a conclusion validly implied by the rules of logic, then you have to assume they did not intend you to draw that conclusion. I used to always tell myself "what would the conclusion be if a typewriter said this?" it was always the typewriter, I had to divorce humanity from it. it became sort of a game

    the role function is something I think you can turn on and off

    so like I just switch on Ti mode when I read something that doesn't sound right at first glance, and then ask myself maybe I'm dealing with a Ti/Fe axis type and shouldn't rush to judge... the thing is I'm still pretty rigid with it and tend to err on the side of caution. I don't read Ti mode to implicate deep logical conclusions, I basically use Ti mode to determine what can and cannot be logically inferred at face value, in other words, I'm not trying to create a vast structure of Ti meaning at the same time. Just using it as a kind of error scanner and jump-to-conclusions-precluder


    I don't actually use Fi with words a lot at all actually. If anything Fi + words tend to be more of a Te analysis by its very nature. But I think of Te/Fi as being kind of the same thing. Fi actually transcends language hardcore and its more like I feel like I just "sit" in it and everything is filtered through it. To engage Fi in language directly is actually really hard and usually unsatisfying. The main thing is shutting it off when you have to, otherwise it feels like its on by default

    when I write I usually have a point I want to get across, so even Fi intent manifests itself in some kind of Te gesture. the exception is purely abstract or metaphorical language; like sometimes I'll talk about love or whatever and its Fi, but if I look at it with Ti mode on, it makes no fucking sense. In any case its a shadow of the feeling. Its the mark the feeling leaves and Te traces onto a digital page

    Fi actually goes really deep underground because I feel like it gets punished a lot, I was watching those Karl Ove videos and he was talking about how it was basically blasphemous that he wrote his books. I've told people I don't like my own parents or stuff to that effect and they look at me like I just ate a cat, and yet its like this is precisely my reality, my world... its like if you're not allowed to feel that way you might as well not be allowed to exist
    This is interesting and I understand.

    Basically, tends to simplify logical constructs until a universal principle is distilled. Ie. the principle applies in every situation. In the context of reading comprehension, lends itself to fixed concepts.

    But tends to add logical complexity with a variety of related facts. So your interpretation relies more heavily on the immediate objective context.

    Each way has its weakness.

    For example, those who value may completely ignore facts for the sake of their pet theories.

    On the other hand, those who value may dispense a pile of factual information that turns out to be wholly irrelevant.

    ----

    I somewhat relate to what you've said, but not entirely.

    Not only do I scan for logical fallacies, but I also create frameworks based on what adds up vs. what's incompatible.

    For instance, when I first entered my field of study, my go-to inclination was to build abstract architectures that would suffice under every circumstance - a set of solutions and general rules that minimize the risk of an organization to zero.

    I learned the hard way that universal frameworks didn't work in the long-term for a number of reasons. New threats constantly emerge, taking advantage of vulnerabilities previously unknown. Furthermore, eliminating risk down to zero is too idealistic because basic system processes demand risk in order to satisfy the goals of an operation.

    But even now, I tend to think in terms of universal principles - even if based on nothing more than adaptation.

    I've built abstract systems since early childhood.

    To get to the point, here: I think we both developed some skills in logic.

    However, the thing I don't relate to is your difficulty in expressing how you feel. Sometimes it's hard, but there's always some kind of concept that corresponds with what I feel.

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    I'm democratic.

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    You are a very clear ILE. You demonstrated pretty much all of the functions in your questionnaire video:

    Ne: open-minded, interested in abstract things, don't mind goofiness, abstract problem-solving (also Te), value self-improvement and being of benefit to the world, like "funny new ideas", like to discuss things, seen as creative, answered the "what would you do if you had enough money" question very thoroughly and thoughtfully, considering it from multiple scenarios/angles
    Ti: analytical, like "structure" in relationships
    Se: dislike authoritarianism and dealing with / being limited by politics on a day-to-day level, dislikes simply being an "asset" to someone
    Fi: tend to "rub people the wrong way" or not take things seriously which annoys some people, difficulty understanding people, doesn't mind people "violating boundaries" or actually likes it
    Si: enjoys the end result of mundane activities like chores, but doesn't enjoy the process, chose job partly because it was easy, your desire to have a family (IME this is a typical manifestation of Si suggestive), also the need to help people on a concrete level with your work
    Fe: a lot of "f***ing around", likes people who are gregarious and social, moderately social yourself, relationships are primarily based on shared activities rather than a "deep" emotional connection
    Ni: didn't see much of this in general, except in the half-joke that you wouldn't have a kid because of the carbon footprint (also Si)
    Te: problem-solving, and your job in general likely involves a lot of this, messing around with systems

    edit: actually reading your questionnaire is giving me second thoughts on this.

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    Thanks! You seem really likable, too @fox.

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    @thehotelambush - still having second thoughts?

    If I were you, I'd primarily consider the videos. They weren't really premeditated.

    But I'm open to hearing what you have to say. I never thought of it that way re: Ti and "structure" in relationships.

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    Quote Originally Posted by reverie View Post
    You remind me a bit of @The Exception on video who types LII-Ne. But you definitely seem Ne/Si to me. I get where the SLI typings are coming from, but you don't really seem Fe PoLR (or Fi PoLR), imo. So maybe LII-Ne?
    Yes! They're similar, a weird LII/SLI mix : )

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